Why Americans don't mix?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why Americans don't mix? (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 9/17/2009 5:52:14 AM EDT

Last week I attended an interforce event in Rome.

A new handgun designed in Austria and built in UAE, the Caracal, has been presented to many armed forces and corp in a range nearby Rome.

There were many military and police rapresentative, included some antiterrorist units and... rapresentatives of the US Embassy security in Rome.

Me and my colleague had the chance to speak with almost all the partecipants to the event, including the engineer that designed the gun and the CEO of Caracal. I noticed that the only people not mixing up and cutting a space all for themselves were the Americans...

why?

Posted: 9/17/2009 5:53:48 AM EDT

[#1]

Most Americans only speak American?

Posted: 9/17/2009 5:55:45 AM EDT

[#2]

poor personal hygiene

Posted: 9/17/2009 5:56:04 AM EDT

[#3]

It could just be that many of them only know English, and also it might have been the first international trip for them. Could be a lot of things. To some degree, Americans abroad will take a reserved position for fear of accidentally being rude and offending someone.

Just a few ideas.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:01:42 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Last week I attended an interforce event in Rome.

A new handgun designed in Austria and built in UAE, the Caracal, has been presented to many armed forces and corp in a range nearby Rome.

There were many military and police rapresentative, included some antiterrorist units and... rapresentatives of the US Embassy security in Rome.

Me and my colleague had the chance to speak with almost all the partecipants to the event, including the engineer that designed the gun and the CEO of Caracal. I noticed that the only people not mixing up and cutting a space all for themselves were the Americans...

why?

It's not just you....I've seen it for years. It's a generalization, but you know what they say about generalizations....

We're self absorbed and socially groomed to believe in a pecking order based upon geography. Also, the vast majority are not well traveled.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:04:45 AM EDT

[#5]

It's easy to be "well traveled" when your country is the size of one of our smaller states.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:05:35 AM EDT

[#6]

Because the rest of the world sucks.
Just kidding. (not really)

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:05:58 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Most Americans only speak American?

Almost all where able to speak italian and almost all of us where spoke fluent english...

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:06:15 AM EDT

[#8]

It may have been the other way around; some Eruos don't particularly like us, you know...and maybe mis-read the reservedness as snobbery, when it's actually the opposite...

Just guessin'

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:09:07 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Most Americans only speak American?

Almost all where able to speak italian and almost all of us where spoke fluent english...

I'd say those fellow Yanquis are not typical. The average Yanqui can only speak American English, and not very well at that. The average European (from my travels to Holland, France, Spain and Italy) speak their native tongue and at least one other language. In the case of my time in Holland, their English was better than some of us "native" American speakers.

Frankly it is humiliating when you realize that a "furriner" can speak our native language better than we can ...

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:09:30 AM EDT

[#10]

In my opinion (and I've lived in Europe for a number of years), Americans are insular for good reason. It's an unfortunate fact, but we seem to be more interesting, knowledgeable, self-assured and well adjusted than most.

It's an idea that the popular media plays down, but I believe it to be true. Taken as a whole, we're simply better.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:12:46 AM EDT

[#11]

Probably to avoid catching the AIDs from filthy foreigners.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:13:32 AM EDT

[#12]

For many Americans, their only experience with Europeans is being told how much America sucks compared to Europe. In my experience even when Europeans are trying to be nice, a lot of them (definitely not ALL, but a lot) can't help making snide or condescending remarks about America or Americans. Many Americans prefer not to interact with Europeans for this reason. It's also why many Americans have a chip on their shoulder when they do interact with Europeans.

ETA: and it also explains the tone of some of the responses in this thread

ETA2: If you want to see what I am talking about, just go to Youtube and look up any video with an American shooting, hunting, cooking, celebrating, or doing anything "American" and read the comments below the video. Half of them will be Europeans talking shit about America and making fun of the Americans in the video.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:15:17 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
It's easy to be "well traveled" when your country is the size of one of our smaller states.

Italy's not that small. It's roughly the size of Florida plus Georgia.

In fact, all of the US (including Alaska) is 3.8 million square miles. Counting only the lower 48, it's about 3.2 million. All of Europe (continent, not union) is 3.9 million square miles but it too has its Northern reaches. They're of comparable size, geographically.

But the point is taken. Europe is much more diverse within that area.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:16:46 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It may have been the other way around; some Eruos don't particularly like us, you know...and maybe mis-read the reservedness as snobbery, when it's actually the opposite...

Just guessin'

Well, I'd like very much to speak with them, but the US coat of arms with the mark "Dept. of State - Diplomatic Security" was a little bit intimidating...

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:16:57 AM EDT

[#15]

My heritage is Greek and I'm a first generation American. I speak it fluently and it's the ONLY way I can communicate with my parents. Anyway to make a long story short, this asshole came into my business one day and had the balls to tell me to speak English while speaking to my parents. The only reason I didn't jerk his ass up and boot him out was because he was an old man. A piece of crap for a human being though but still an old man.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:20:27 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's easy to be "well traveled" when your country is the size of one of our smaller states.

Italy's not that small. It's roughly the size of Florida plus Georgia.

In fact, all of the US (including Alaska) is 3.8 million square miles. Counting only the lower 48, it's about 3.2 million. All of Europe (continent, not union) is 3.9 million square miles but it too has its Northern reaches. They're of comparable size, geographically.

But the point is taken. Europe is much more diverse within that area.

All of North America (continent, not country) is 9.5 million square miles.

You lose in the pointless points category, as well.

You guys make some rockin' olive oil, lunch meat, meatballs, and motorcycles. Stick with that. Comparing yourselves to the US in virtually any other category is potentially humiliating. Sorry.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:20:47 AM EDT

[#17]

Was the event on September 11?

It can be a tough time for many Americans.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:22:39 AM EDT

[#18]

I speak German and French. I lived in Europe for years. I got my master's degree at a German university. I can converse with folks on a wide variety of topics, know a lot about and am interested in all things European, BUT one thing Europeans just don't get is American politics and culture. You as an American living over there are forever going up against a lifetime of cultural brainwashing and media bias AGAINST the USA.

After a while, I just gave up. When the politics come up in conversation, it ALWAYS after a while turns into a "let's beat up on America (Geo. Bush)" session. I got tired of it. Same thing, every time. Couple that with the fact that I am no longer a left-wing student, but have grown up, there's not much room to agree on anymore, since most Europeans are diametrically opposed to what even the average ARFCOMMER believes. The only ones I seem to have anything in common with any more are some French gun fans and my English reenactment friends and relatives.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:26:04 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I speak German and French. I lived in Europe for years. I got my master's degree at a German university. I can converse with folks on a wide variety of topics, know a lot about and am interested in all things European, BUT one thing Europeans just don't get is American politics and culture. You as an American living over there are forever going up against a lifetime of cultural brainwashing and media bias AGAINST the USA.

After a while, I just gave up. When the politics come up in conversation, it ALWAYS after a while turns into a "let's beat up on America (Geo. Bush)" session. I got tired of it. Same thing, every time. Couple that with the fact that I am no longer a left-wing student, but have grown up, there's not much room to agree on anymore, since most Europeans are diametrically opposed to what even the average ARFCOMMER believes. The only ones I seem to have anything in common with any more are some French gun fans and my English reenactment friends and relatives.

The first time I went to Greece, they had it in for Reagan. Oh it was anti-this and anti-that and that was the older folks mostly. But that was due mainly to the US support of the military junta that had taken over the government in the 60's that had ruled with an iron fist. Many younger people on the other hand were still enamored with the USA and things like Levi's jeans and were very curious about us and our culture.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:26:57 AM EDT

[#20]

Paolo,

To them they were mixing, we have a completely different concept of personal space than the average Italian. The average European, especially southern European, is far more comfortable with being close to other people. It takes Americans months if not years to get used to (and honestly we tolerate it but don't like it) the physical proximity you guys take for granted. Seriously, it's painful when someone stands that close to us and start throwing their hands around and constantly touching our arms, shoulders (I bet members reading this are going to think that's gay, no it's not, this is very common in other cultures) so give them a break they are coming from completely different world than you.

For what it's worth I moved from Texas to Napoli and lived there for four years and eventually got used to it (again kind of). When I moved back to the States I was initially shocked at how far apart we all stood, of course it didn't take long to get used to it again.

We are this way for many different reasons, but chief amongst them is that we have a ton of room and most of us don't live in small apartments on two thousand year old streets surrounded by humanity every day of our lives.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:27:50 AM EDT

[#21]

Did you use the universal translator?

"Hey Bitches, Relax. It will be chambered in .45ACP soon."

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:37:09 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It may have been the other way around; some Eruos don't particularly like us, you know...and maybe mis-read the reservedness as snobbery, when it's actually the opposite...

Just guessin'

Well, I'd like very much to speak with them, but the US coat of arms with the mark "Dept. of State - Diplomatic Security" was a little bit intimidating...

Don't equate anyone associated with the The U.S. Department of State with the rest of us Americans.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:47:44 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's easy to be "well traveled" when your country is the size of one of our smaller states.

Italy's not that small. It's roughly the size of Florida plus Georgia.

In fact, all of the US (including Alaska) is 3.8 million square miles. Counting only the lower 48, it's about 3.2 million. All of Europe (continent, not union) is 3.9 million square miles but it too has its Northern reaches. They're of comparable size, geographically.

But the point is taken. Europe is much more diverse within that area.

All of North America (continent, not country) is 9.5 million square miles.

You lose in the pointless points category, as well.

You guys make some rockin' olive oil, lunch meat, meatballs, and motorcycles. Stick with that. Comparing yourselves to the US in virtually any other category is potentially humiliating. Sorry.

You forgot beasteality porn.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:50:22 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's easy to be "well traveled" when your country is the size of one of our smaller states.

Italy's not that small. It's roughly the size of Florida plus Georgia.

In fact, all of the US (including Alaska) is 3.8 million square miles. Counting only the lower 48, it's about 3.2 million. All of Europe (continent, not union) is 3.9 million square miles but it too has its Northern reaches. They're of comparable size, geographically.

But the point is taken. Europe is much more diverse within that area.

All of North America (continent, not country) is 9.5 million square miles.

You lose in the pointless points category, as well.

You guys make some rockin' olive oil, lunch meat, meatballs, and motorcycles. Stick with that. Comparing yourselves to the US in virtually any other category is potentially humiliating. Sorry.

You forgot beasteality beastiality porn.

Fixed.

To the guys credit, he's right. His English is better than the vast majority of GDs. You know why? 'Cause it has to be.

Want to know why my Italian sucks? Because being able to speak it holds no value for me.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:54:57 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

I speak German and French. I lived in Europe for years. I got my master's degree at a German university. I can converse with folks on a wide variety of topics, know a lot about and am interested in all things European, BUT one thing Europeans just don't get is American politics and culture. You as an American living over there are forever going up against a lifetime of cultural brainwashing and media bias AGAINST the USA.
After a while, I just gave up. When the politics come up in conversation, it ALWAYS after a while turns into a "let's beat up on America (Geo. Bush)" session. I got tired of it. Same thing, every time. Couple that with the fact that I am no longer a left-wing student, but have grown up, there's not much room to agree on anymore, since most Europeans are diametrically opposed to what even the average ARFCOMMER believes. The only ones I seem to have anything in common with any more are some French gun fans and my English reenactment friends and relatives.

Both my GF and I have noticed something similar.

Talk to someone from Europe for any length of time and, sooner or later, it seems that they just have to knock America about something.

(Iraq; George Bush; health care; something.)

It's like they can't help themselves.

What makes my GF even angrier are the Europeans she works with, who do nothing but bash us, going on and on about how much better Europe is.

Posted: 9/17/2009 6:59:57 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Was the event on September 11?

It can be a tough time for many Americans.

The day before, the 10th.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:03:05 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

It's easy to be "well traveled" when your country is the size of one of our smaller states.

Italy's not that small. It's roughly the size of Florida plus Georgia.

In fact, all of the US (including Alaska) is 3.8 million square miles. Counting only the lower 48, it's about 3.2 million. All of Europe (continent, not union) is 3.9 million square miles but it too has its Northern reaches. They're of comparable size, geographically.

But the point is taken. Europe is much more diverse within that area.

All of North America (continent, not country) is 9.5 million square miles.

You lose in the pointless points category, as well.

You guys make some rockin' olive oil, lunch meat, meatballs, and motorcycles. Stick with that. Comparing yourselves to the US in virtually any other category is potentially humiliating. Sorry.

You forgot beasteality beastiality porn.

Fixed.

To the guys credit, he's right. His English is better than the vast majority of GDs. You know why? 'Cause it has to be.

Want to know why my Italian sucks? Because being able to speak it holds no value for me.

This is true, and it provides (or should provide) a huge advantage to us, while their children are learning to read in English are should be be using that same time studying math and science.

It used to be a that a well educated American student would need to know German for Technology, French for Literature, Italian for Art, Latin for Medicine, and Greek for Philosophy but at some point at the turn of the century we started writing the text books on Technology and Medicine soon after that we started to pull ahead.

Fortunately for us we are still okay because currently English is established as the international language outside of current influence and is likely to remain so until another hyper-power develops and created a mass of technical and medical literature accessible immediately in their native tongue. Currently bets are Mandarin being that language in the future, but it could just as easily be Hindi or Portuguese (Brazil) depending on how things develop. (Of course it might still be English if we can get our act together)

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:06:43 AM EDT

[#28]

There are probably a couple of things going on.

Some may not speak English. Many are probably concerned about unintentionally offending someone out of ignorance of local customs.

I think a big part, however, is personal space. Americans are sticklers about personal space. Europeans are much more comfortable with physical contact. The US is still predominately a rural country, however, and most Americans are not accustomed to being in close proximity with other people.

ETA: I experienced the "standing too close" phenomenon a lot in college. We had a lot of asian exchange students in the computer science program and, like Europeans, they don't have the same concept of personal space as Americans. Frequently, when talking with them, I found myself taking steps back to get away from them...not because of anything they were doing, but just because of how close they get to you.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:07:34 AM EDT

[#29]

That and just about everytime we get involved with Europe we're in a war... or spending our money preparing for one. Our ancestors left Europe for a reason. I think we're just naturally wary.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:11:25 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Was the event on September 11?

It can be a tough time for many Americans.

The day before, the 10th.

They may have been distracted with "business". I am certain that the alertness level would be up around the Sept. 11 anniversary.

The embassy fellas I have talked with in years past are also used to dealing with protesters- which understandably makes them pretty wary.

Don't take it personally regardless.

Italy has been an ally in the war on terror and many Americans (this one included) appreciate this.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:17:45 AM EDT

[#31]

Europeans alive today helped kill their own Jews. It was not just the Germans. It was nearly all of Europe. How can I ever respect them. And frankly, I fully expect that in my lifetime I will see the Europeans killing their own Muslims. Morally superior? Give me a break.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:19:24 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Italy has been an ally in the war on terror and many Americans (this one included) appreciate this.

Amen!

Grazie, Italia!

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:19:24 AM EDT

[#33]

Not me. I would be mingling, trying to get the Italian boys to hook me up with some Italian ladies

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:19:41 AM EDT

[#34]

They were probably, in some degree, self-conscious of being seen as the stereotypical brash, rude, arrogant American abroad.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:21:23 AM EDT

[#35]

They didnt want to fill out a foreign contact report.

Kharn

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:21:38 AM EDT

[#36]

In follow-up to my last post, I think the Europeans have two things in the back of their minds whenever they talk to us. They know that we know that they killed their own Jewish childern, and they know that we know that always need us to bail them out from the shit storms they can not but keep causing.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:22:10 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Europeans alive today helped kill their own Jews. It was not just the Germans. It was nearly all of Europe. How can I ever respect them. And frankly, I fully expect that in my lifetime I will see the Europeans killing their own Muslims. Morally superior? Give me a break.

Mmmm...no. The Muslims are- and will be- killing the Europeans. Many governments over there seem utterly prostrate in the face of Islamofascism, stemming from the waves of Middle Eastern and African immigrants THEY let in. Their ancestors who held back and defeated the Moors and Turks must be spinning in their graves...

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:22:47 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

They were probably, in some degree, self-conscious of being seen as the stereotypical brash, rude, arrogant American abroad.

I noticed on my travels when not in uniform that when outed as an American you tend to get Bush thrown your way etc.

I kept to myself.

Yes, this was when bush was in office

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:23:27 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
In follow-up to my last post, I think the Europeans have two things in the back of their minds whenever they talk to us. They know that we know that they killed their own Jewish childern, and they know that we know that always need us to bail them out from the shit storms they can not but keep causing.

I have brought that up before in conversation with continental Europeans, and it makes them uncomfortable. Because they know it's probably true.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:25:02 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Paolo,

To them they were mixing, we have a completely different concept of personal space than the average Italian. The average European, especially southern European, is far more comfortable with being close to other people. It takes Americans months if not years to get used to (and honestly we tolerate it but don't like it) the physical proximity you guys take for granted. Seriously, it's painful when someone stands that close to us and start throwing their hands around and constantly touching our arms, shoulders (I bet members reading this are going to think that's gay, no it's not, this is very common in other cultures) so give them a break they are coming from completely different world than you.

For what it's worth I moved from Texas to Napoli and lived there for four years and eventually got used to it (again kind of). When I moved back to the States I was initially shocked at how far apart we all stood, of course it didn't take long to get used to it again.

We are this way for many different reasons, but chief amongst them is that we have a ton of room and most of us don't live in small apartments on two thousand year old streets surrounded by humanity every day of our lives.

This man pretty much hit the nail on the head, the most contact average American men are used to is a handshake greeting, and a handshake goodbye. Unless its family then and maybe ONLY then would a hug be appropriate, some good friends may get a hug also but thats about it. Hell my dad is 65 i am 28 and he still wont hug me, he visibly and physically gets on edge when another man tries to hug him. Besides the above scenarios the only other reason for physical contact for an average male is going to put him in the frame of mind to get ready to defend himself or make him very uncomfortable at least.

Our personal space here is very personal i hate it when somebody doesn't respect the boundaries and will usually result in me trying to create space and make me leary of that person it usually results in condition orange for me.

But like i said with good friends and family it is different but in general most Americans enjoy a large personal area.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:25:11 AM EDT

[#41]

Probably because it seems that most every country hates us, so we keep to ourselves.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:29:50 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Probably because it seems that most every country hates us, so we keep to ourselves.

And this too, besides a few countries it seems like we are not very well liked around the world.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:34:56 AM EDT

[#43]

I was working for a French company on 9/11. I saw very little if any sympathy. I was told basically it was "about time" America had to endure what the Europeans had for years.
Any conversation always turned to bashing America. How the French were the first to invent this or produce that. How many American women they were screwing, etc.
About a week after 9/11 I finally asked a guy running his mouth about our space program one day, "I know why you have so many trees on the sides of your roads." He asked "yes, why?"
I smiled and told him "The Germans like to march in the shade."
That is why we don't mingle. Edit to add: And they smelled like ass most of the time, and use cologne like it was bath water to cover the stank.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:38:48 AM EDT

[#44]

I work for a Italian company and I almost go insane trying to get those guys not to stand nose to nose with me when they talk. I'll be sitting at the desk running the power plant with a entire control room to stand in and with out failure they will stand so damn close there junk is rubbing your elbow while talking on a cell phone. AAAAAA get away from me!!!!

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:41:22 AM EDT

[#45]

Because the Americans didn't want to smell the foreigners for whom daily bathing is seen as an aberation and pervertion.

Only Americans do hygiene right.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:45:12 AM EDT

[#46]

That Caracal looks like a Steyr seeing as you have 1st hand knowledge of it.Is it a copy?

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:48:46 AM EDT

[#47]

It was probably a multitude of different factors, but I think the biggest factor was likely the fact that they were Dept. of State - Diplomatic Security. Those guys don't mess around much, and I doubt that they were going to be mixing it up too much while working - though off duty they might be more sociable.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:58:41 AM EDT

[#48]

I bet that it is nothing more than them doing their jobs, they are security personnel!

I'm pretty sure all Americans have an attitude when it comes to Europe, when I was in Germany last summer a building in Berlin had "FUCK OFF AMERIKA" on the side, and the letters were a couple stories tall.

It basically reaffirmed my belief that Europe is a beautiful place filled with shitty people.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:59:12 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
That Caracal looks like a Steyr seeing as you have 1st hand knowledge of it.Is it a copy?

Made by the same dude yeah

Posted: 9/17/2009 8:09:58 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Paolo,

To them they were mixing, we have a completely different concept of personal space than the average Italian. The average European, especially southern European, is far more comfortable with being close to other people. It takes Americans months if not years to get used to (and honestly we tolerate it but don't like it) the physical proximity you guys take for granted. Seriously, it's painful when someone stands that close to us and start throwing their hands around and constantly touching our arms, shoulders (I bet members reading this are going to think that's gay, no it's not, this is very common in other cultures) so give them a break they are coming from completely different world than you.

For what it's worth I moved from Texas to Napoli and lived there for four years and eventually got used to it (again kind of). When I moved back to the States I was initially shocked at how far apart we all stood, of course it didn't take long to get used to it again.

We are this way for many different reasons, but chief amongst them is that we have a ton of room and most of us don't live in small apartments on two thousand year old streets surrounded by humanity every day of our lives.

good synopsis

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why Americans don't mix? (Page 1 of 4)

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