[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,644538,00.html[/url]

Duncan Mackay in Salt Lake City
Monday February 4, 2002
The Guardian

The organisers have been told by the International Olympic Committee to tone down overt shows of patriotism during the 2002 winter games' opening ceremony here on Friday and not to honour the victims of September 11.
"These games are held in the United States and we have deep respect and sympathy for everything that has happened since September 11," said François Carrard, the IOC's director general. "But let's not forget the games is a universal event." The opening ceremony is being televised worldwide.

A tribute "of some kind" will occur in the hour before the show to those killed in the attack on the World Trade Centre, possibly incorporating the American flag retrieved from the rubble after the terrorist attack, the Salt Lake Organising Committee president Mitt Romney suggested.

"It's not designed to be a patriotic American display," he said. "While the experience of 9/11 certainly impacts on all of us, there should not be a direct tribute in the ceremony itself."

Even before September 11 the IOC was concerned that the SLOC might incorporate too much patriotism into the opening ceremony, a criticism levelled by some at the 1984 Los Angeles and 1996 Atlanta summer games.

"Around the world it was like, 'Boy, those Americans, always beating their chests,'" said Romney. "This is not our time to talk about how great America is."

So far in the run-up to these games coverage has concentrated almost exclusively on the home competitors, raising fears of a repeat of the LA and Atlanta games when events with little home interest were rarely shown on US television.

Romney hopes the opening ceremony, due to be attended by President Bush and the United Nations secretary-general Kofi Annan, will allay such fears. The Salt Lake show was planned long before the terrorist attacks and sketched out before the 2000 summer games in Sydney, he said.

Bright lights have so far illuminated the University of Utah's Rice-Eccles stadium- "Olympic Stadium" - late into the night for rehearsals and stage construction. But particulars of the ceremony remain a secret, although it is known that the performers will include the British singers Sting and Charlotte Church.

The ceremony, in its varied form, will reflect the culture and history of Utah and the American West, Romney said. It will also highlight Olympic spirit and the international community.

However, one possible complication could be the weather with forecasters expecting strong storms in northern Utah from Friday morning. The fear is that performers in large costumes could be "blown away" if heavy winds kick up.

I believe the appropriate response to these asswipes would be... "How about you go outside and play 'Hide-and-go-fuck-yourself."

Just wait until we start hearing the same call from the current administration. Not not to honor the victims, but the calls for us not to be patriotic. You see what they want for us to do to be patriotic is just wave our flags, give them permission to detroy the Consitution and BOR and keep our mouths shut. When the long dormant foundation upon which this country was founded starts showing through in the masses, they will call upon us to stop.

How do I know? Because this administration like all the others has asked our permission in giving up liberty and our GOD-given rights already in response to the events of 9-11.

No matter how you folks fool yourselves, no administration that believes in the principles that both founded this country but also made it great would EVER ask the people to do so. There is simply NO reason to destroy the constitution unless you believe not in freedom but in enslavement.

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -Daniel Webster

Right on brother!

why is it that the scum trying to suck up the most $$ from the U.S. trough, always seem to know what is best for this country?

DJb, you are right, why think that any freedom that is given up will make us safer.  a true patriot would fall down laughing at such an idea.  
had they asked for my permission to give up any of my rights, the answer would have been NO.  they didn't ask me to give up any rights, they just took them - and my nail clippers.

Then there's this story in the Washington Post:  [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28372-2002Feb5.html[/url]

(RANT ON)
Too much patriotism?  Well...that is just TOO FUCKING BAD!!!  We’re the host country…we can set the rules!  (At least we ought to be able to.)

I am so sick of those bed-wetting pantywaists in Europe and in our own country, especially certain of our socialist members of congress who hate the thought of American hegemony, and  who are more concerned with the sensitivities of our erstwhile "allies" than they are with the well being of our own people!

The Europeans are nothing more than a bunch of  socialists who would rather feel the terrorists' pain than double-tap the bastards between the eyes.  They are the most ungrateful bunch of arrogant ass holes this planet has ever seen!  Ever do business with a German or Frog?  I have.  They think we are a bunch of ill-educated, anal-retentive, money-grubbing rubes only interested in making a buck (And just what is so wrong with that?)  Take the French:  We saved their sorry, smelly Frog asses from tyranny twice!  Then we totally rebuilt Germany and we poured trillions of our treasure and thousands of years of our young people’s lives in protecting their socialist asses from the Bear just on the other side of the Fulda Gap…and how do they pay us back?  Will someone PLEASE explain this weird paradigm to me.  I mean…I understand realpolitic and all…and Bismarck was OK…but I don’t understand NO gratitude at all!

I don't care if it IS a world event.  WE are the country that got whacked by the terrorists.  I didn't see that old Frog Eiffel Tower on fire...with people jumping out!  I didn't see NATO HQ in Belgium on fire, nor Parliament nor The Hague neither!  No planes went down in Germany!  I don't see too many Europeans breaking sweat busting their asses chasing Al Qaeda around Afghanistan either.  So...with that in mind...I say carry the damn flag anyway!

SCREW THEM...ALL OF THEM!  If the rest of the world doesn’t like it...TOUGH SHIT!  They can kiss my ass too!
(RANT OFF)

[pissed]

Patriotism is just gonna happen as we kick the shit out of the whole world in most events. The "universe" will see that our system is obviously superior to every other way of life just in the total domination we are gonna bust out on those losers. You can have my wavin' flag when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Phuckem

I type like a guy that gives a schitt what 'they' want ?

[X]

If I were in the position I would tell the IOC to shut the f*ck up or I'll just shut down the GD olympics. What are they going to do if we have tributes, and act all patriotic? Kick us out of the olympics? Not hold the olympics in the US again?

I should run for President of the United States. Ponybody, the no nonsense President. I'd tell people like this to f*ck off and die and I'd do it on national tv. I'd put up 1 million US flags at each olympic venue. Every single piece of our equipment would be red white and blue down to the athletes shoelaces and underwear. I would have a tribute before every single event and another one before every medal ceremony. If the IOC kept complaining I would lock em up in Cuba in the general population.

These people make me sick.....

If anyone here is fooling themself, I would say it's you.  I have not seen any attempts to destroy the Constitution in response to 9/11.  What I have seen is a lot of RUMOR and INNUENDO that ALWAYS turns out to be nothing but BULLSHIT.  Which, of course, the black-helicopter crowd swallows whole.

Ponyboy for president!!!!

F#*K 'EM. If they don't like patriotism they can get the hell outa my country...right GD now!!!!! And don't ever even think of coming back. Did I happen to mention....F*#K 'EM!!!!  [frag]

Posted by RikWriter (in his usual head buried in the sand tone):

If anyone here is fooling themself, I would say it's you.  I have not seen any attempts to destroy the Constitution in response to 9/11.  What I have seen is a lot of RUMOR and INNUENDO that ALWAYS turns out to be nothing but BULLSHIT.  Which, of course, the black-helicopter crowd swallows whole.
------------------------

Hold on let me tick off the ways that in fact this administration HAS infringed both the Constitution and the BOR.

1. We are supposedly at WAR yet the Constitution declares that a state of war must be declared by CONGRESS. Congress has not delared any such thing.

2. Airport searches in infringe the 4th Amendment rights and I quote--

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against  unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue,  but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.  

Yet these warrantless searches continue in opposition to this Constitutionally protected right.

With the passage of the Patriot Act (which must not be in effect for RikWriter) :

"President Bush signed legislation Friday that expands the ability to  tap telephones and track Internet usage in the hunt for terrorists"

Which ALSO infringes the 4th, yet Dubya goes on to utter this bullshit:

"Today, we take an essential step in defeating terrorism while protecting the constitutional rights of all Americans,"

Now how the hell infringing OUR constitutional rights PROTECTS them is beyond me. It's the BIG LIE technique.

These are but a few point to refute RikWriter's typical and sickening ignorance of our current residence on the slippery slope.

But remember this, The TRUTH whether buried in the mud and encrusted in blood or denied as RikWriter is so fond of doing is STILL THE TRUTH.

This administration as well as previous of all flavor and politcal affiliation oppose the Constitution snd BOR. Their ACTIONS prove this to be the case.

And In my best Gump, That's All I got To Say About That (For Now)


"America is at that awkward stage.  It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.  On the road to tyranny, we've gone so far that polite political action is about as useless as a miniskirt in a convent." - Claire Wolfe, _101 Things To Do 'Til The Revolution

Well, when are you going to start ticking off ways that the Bush administration has begun violating our Constitutional rights since 9/11?

I mean, you DO know that we haven't had a real, declared war since WW2, right?
And you DO know that airport searches have been around for a long time, right?
So you wanna try that again, or simply continue to look foolish?

Well RikWhiner,

I remember a day when I could have a folding knife on my person legally so I could sever the jugular vein of any bastard that wanted to down the plane and now I am reduced to hoping everyone just jumps on top of the bastard like some sort of weird football play before too many of us die.

Screw that!

-elliott

Typically I refrain from such language, but in this case I whole heartedly agree!  What's more I think that is the one of the funniest damn things I have heard to date.  I laughed my butt off!

Kentlik

You know that insulting someone's screen name without provocation makes you look like such a juvenile idiot that the person isn't likely to pay any attention to whatever point you're trying to make, right?

BTW, just to let you know, ELEVEN YEARS AGO, I was not allowed to take my 3-inch bladed folding lockblade on a plane from LA to Hawaii.
Ooops.  Next?

Oh man...Rikwriter, do you know why we haven't had a declared war since WWII?  The UN my fellow American, the UN.  You can know the truth if you seek the truth.  I am not even remotely going to embark on a history lesson here because as is customarily the case people must learn through painfull experiences and this is not one of those experiences.  I will however direct you to the statement you made regarding searches at airports.  There are no gray areas.  Period.  No culpable infringements.  Living in the gray areas has gotten us where we are today, saddle under an oppressive system we are scared of.  Affraid.  My 74 year old father, so affraid of the IRS...whats the use anymore...

Kentlik
 

Perhaps François Carrard should be reminded that Islam's assault against the world on September 11th (not to mention countless murderous assaults prior) was a universal event as well.

And all that is really beside the point...which was that DJBump was accusing the Bush administration of having curtailed our Constitutional rights since 9/11.  Yet when he is called on it, the best he can come up with are two things that have been done for DECADES.
I think the reason we haven't declared war has more to do with Congress than the UN, but all that is far afield from the ridiculous screed against the Bush presidency that DJ Bump vomited out on the screen.

I have replied to very few post on this site for one simple reason, people seem to be very angry on this site.  Individuals attack even the slightest differing opinion.  I only attempted to point out a simple statement of fact and was attacked. "Far a field," hardly, one administration is the same administration.  I will give Bush high marks and God bless him for his stances, but they are but a curtain to the big picture.    As he is bolstering our defense umptien billion dollars he is also dismanteling from the top down our most advanced nuclear deterent, the MX.  No the former Soviet Union is not abidding the treaty.  See many credible factoids from the freedom of info act and reliable media.  They are creating plausible deniability and global pacification.  On world government, one currency[(fiat)fake], and one military(UN).  Call me what you will, see the Geneva accords of 1998, disarmament of the US by 2008.  No chance, but that is what Madeline sighned.      
Kentlik

Well, no, you weren't.  Telling you that your post was beside the point that me and DJBump were arguing is not attacking you.  You were making an argument against something I wasn't even discussing.  I never told you that your argument was stupid or even wrong, I simply said it wasn't what I was discussing.  



Okay, then why didn't you vote for Gore?  They're all the same, right?



I couldn't care less.  The fact is, submarine-based missiles are, were and will be our biggest nuclear deterrent.  There is really no defense against them.  And we only need enough to destroy one, perhaps two countries, not enough to render every square inch of land on earth uninhabitable.



And her signature means nothing without approval by Congress.  The Russians can abide or not abide by the treaty, in the end it makes no difference.  Talk to anyone who knows anything about the military, Russia is not a military threat to us.  No one is, in the sense that they could defeat our military forces straight up.  Hell, the INCREASE in the military budget that Bush has asked for is more than the ENTIRE military budget for Germany.

And yet, NONE OF THIS has ANY BEARING on the baseless accusations made by DJBump OR my reply to it...OR to the topic of this thread, which was the IOC's stupidity.
Frankly, I would bring the flag into the stadium and let them TRY to stop us.
Now, are you going to claim I somehow attacked you in this thread too?

Okay children... time for school!
[b]American Civics 101[/b] - Lesson One: Congress is not part of the Executive Branch.  You know - THREE separate branches of Gov't.

If Congress fails to muster enough support for a Declaration of War, don't blame the Bush Administration. He's conducting foreign policy and DEFENDING this Constitution and nation more than ANY other Gov't official, as is his Constitutional responsibility - even in the face of Congressional cold-feet.

Does the word "unreasonable" mean any thing to you?  Or is that one of those words you just mumble and ignore because it has too many syllables to comprehend?

If there are "unreasonable" searches without a warrant, then that implies there must also be "reasonable" searches without a warrant.

And as RikWriter points out... airport searches have been around for a long time without any successful challenge before the courts.  Just because YOU don't like them doesn't make them "unreasonable" in a legal sense.

And as I stated in another thread...

If I owned an airlines, I'd have every right and reason to search the masses of sheeple who
choose to board [b]MY[/b] planes. Especially if I were legally responsibile for any incidents or mishaps or nuclear detonations occuring on board [b]MY[/b] planes because of my failure to provide a "reasonable" amount of security.

Remember, [b]their planes, their rules.[/b] You don't like it, get your own plane. THAT is your Constitutional right also.

Wrong again [b]DJbump[/b].
The "phone tap" is the most misleading of these BIG LIES - only it's you who are the one falling for the lie.  

No one is interested in arresting a TELEPHONE!  GWB enabled the Feds to [b](with a warrant listing specific persons)[/b] listen in to a THAT PERSON'S conversations regardless of which particular cell phone or email account they are using.  It's to track SPECIFIC PEOPLE listed in the warrant - NOT RANDOM PHONES OR EMAILS!!

YOU are still secure as long as YOU are not listed in the search warrant.

All in all, your laundry list of ways Bush has "infringed" on your rights is entirely misguided.  But don't worry, even if I'm wrong I'm sure your well-worn tinfoil hat will protect you in the end. [whacko]

I could not disagree more about the bearing of the earliest statements.  It has everything to do with them.  We are talking about RIGHTS, your rights and mine!  

Frankly, Gore would just be speeding up the possible inevitable Rikwriter.  Sure he is an idiot, but the agenda is set.  

This has everything to do with DJbumps post.  Freedom, liberty, and the God given right of the  pursuit of happiness.  Being safe in our person.

Congress means nothing.  Why do you think the president goes to the UN to start a war?  Not congress.  Yes, since WWII.

You couldn't care less about mobile defense systems.  You better.  I know a little about submarine systems.  One; there are few.  Two; they are easily detected.  Three; they have target packages in certain situations that include US cities.  End of thread for me...  

Not a declared war?  True.  However, it should be borne in mind that American is, and has been, in a State of Emergency since around 1932 (I think.)

Given that we are in such a state, the necessity  for a wartime declaration is al ost suspended, and the President has greatly less limited authority in this situation.  However, this does not justify the actions taken to infringe upon the rights of American citizens.

Should this be a declared war?  An interesting question - generally war is declared against other nations.  If we are to declare war, against which nation will it be?  If we DO declare war, that will give the detainees in Gitmo protection under the Geneva Conventions and the Law of Land Warfare.  Moreover, causing this to become a declared war will limit us in the field by the same strictures - which we KNOW will not be followed by the terrs...

Should we declare war?  No.  Leave this to be handled in Washington as a "low-intensity conflict," which requires Congressional oversight to the point of informing the Senate Select Armed Forces Committee anytime from prior to the action (bad idea) to up to 72 hours AFTER the action HAS TAKEN PLACE (better - let them read the AAR's.)

Don't declare war - let us fight the terrorists using whatever dirty tricks we have access to.  Let us do unto them FIRST and LAST - and let them figure out what happened afterwards.  That's their problem.

If we capture bin Laden anytime soon, I fully endorse cutting off his balls to get any other useful information - using a fine-cut bastard file.  Protection?  None needed.  A terrorist, properly treated, has no rights and deserves none.  They renounce their claim to Humanity upon the first bombing of "innocents."  

We cannot expect the enemy in these engagements to fight by the rules - to do so on our behalf is to ensure our defeat.  Remember - the Marquis of Queensberry was a Queen.  And he was Buried.

FFZ

I agree, a nice game of "Hide-and-go-fuck-yourself" is just what the doctor calls for.

I know it's hard, but how about getting back on topic (yea, it's hard) about this shit from the IOC.

I fucking say boycott them, their sponsers, the TV station and everything else that even is remotely connected to the Olympics.

Start emailing your family and friends, we can do something about this, like we did with Jeep.

Um...easily detected by whom?  And what would keep MX missiles from targetting US cities?
End of thread...well, if you want to drop a misinformation-bomb like that and leave, it's your call.

What do the colors of the Flag mean?
Sentimental writers and orators sometimes ascribe meanings to the colors in the flag. The practice is erroneous, as are statements on this subject attributed to George Washington and other founders of the country.

From the book "Our Flag" published in 1989 by the House of Representatives...

"On July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America. This mission, designed to reflect the Founding Fathers' beliefs, values, and sovereignty of the new Nation, did not become a reality until June 20, 1782. In heraldic devices, such as seals, each element has a specific meaning. Even colors have specific meanings. The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; [b]White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice." [/b]Also this from a book about the flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives...

"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."

The quote below concerning gold fringe on the Flag is from the book "So Proudly We Hail, The History of the United States Flag" Smithsonian Institute Press 1981, by Wiliam R. Furlong and Byron McCandless. "The placing of a fringe on Our Flag is optional with the person of organization, and no Act of Congress or Executive Order either prohibits the practice, according to the Institute of Hearaldry. Fringe is used on indoor flags only, as fringe on flags on outdoor flags would deteriorate rapidly. The fringe on a Flag is considered and 'honorable enrichment only', and its official use by the US Army dates from 1895.. A 1925 Attorney General's Opinion states: 'the fringe does not appear to be regarded as an integral part of the Flag, and its presence cannot be said to constitute an unauthorized addition to the design prescribed by statute. An external fringe is to be distinguished from letters, words, or emblematic designs printed or superimposed upon the body of the flag itself. Under law, such additions might be open to objection as unauthorized; but the same is not necessarily true of the fringe.'"

The gold trim is generally used on ceremonial indoor flags that are used for special services and is believed to have been first used in a military setting. It has no specific significance that I have ever run across, and its (gold trim) use is in compliance with applicable flag codes and laws.

The Flag that inspired Francis S. Key to write our National Anthem


I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[img]http://userpages.aug.com/haywire/olindex.jpg[/img]

Then you might want to read this:

[url]http://216.110.42.179/docs/usa.act.final.102401.html[/url]
It's the text of the "PATRIOT" act.

Read it.  Don't agree that it is an attack on our Constitutional rights.

Why don't we tell these other countries to fuck off? Because we don't have the balls. We don't even have the balls to tell the scumbags in this country to fuck off. We have incrementally given up our rights in the name of "tolerance" and have therefore relinquished rule of our nation to those who least respect it and what it stands for. We don't even have the balls to keep illegal aliens and terrorists out of our country. Hell, we let them in, swear them in as citizens and bus them over to the local voting booth to vote for...Known terrorists are given citizenship. Why? Because it is not politically correct to do otherwise. And then we act outraged when they kill our people. After the fact we drop a few bombs and get others to fight our battles. No fucking balls at all. Men everywhere are afraid to speak up as they will then be labeled as politically incorrect right wing extremists. By now an entire generation or two has been thoroughly brainwashed and emasculated by the schools which are run by the most liberal, left wing segment of our population. Women run our country now and we gave it up with scarcely a whimper. Their leaders are Oprah, the dykes at NOW, etc, etc, etc. They all sing the same nonsensical mantra.
I am absolutely convinced that we will never get our country back through the political process and since we don't have the balls to take it back we are pretty much fucked.
Soon we'll all be wearing skirts. Well, not quite all of us.
No balls. No fucking balls at all.

 I keep seeing this one.  However there is a bill passed on timeframe 9-12 to 9-15 or something. I do remember what it says.

"A STATE OF WAR EXISTS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND ANY GROUP NATION OR TERRITORY DEEMED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO REPRESENT OR BE INVOLVED IN TERRORIST ACTIVITIES, AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS HEREBY AUTHORIZED TO USE ANY AND ALL MEASURES ......"

I can remember the rest and that may not be totally word for word. But WAR has been declared by the US.

Benjamin

[b][red][size=6]GOOD NEWS!!![/b][/red][/size=6]

The IOC just caved!!!  Our kids ARE going to carry that flag in during the opening ceremony.

Seems the national outrage just got too hot for the European and African bedwetters to handle.

Never should have happened.  If I'd been Dubya, I'd have called those bastards and told them I was pulling ALL of their perks, making them PAY for everything, and taking away their limos and security teams too!  (Say...maybe he DID do that!)

[;D]

So, not only did our "own government" not tell us to "cut our patriotism," but the IOC caved.
Ahem.  I hate to say I told you so, but...

"I hate to say I told you so, but..." Let me finish that for you [b]RikWriter[/b]

but... there's nothing wrong with being right. So I'll proudly state that fact just as loudly as those who were wrong were stating their flawed remarks.

I don't care much for "quietly" letting the truth speak for itself.  That's like what newspapers do when they bury "corrections" in the bottom of pg A26 when the original incorrect story was plastered on pg One above the fold.

If you're right you're right.  When the truth is finally told, the story is just starting to be told. No time to humbly back off then.

just my $0.03

This is just another example of our decline.This is a perfect example of the kind of shit that got started when we got sucked into the U.N. We let and enable all the little shit hole countries, that we finance, dictate to us how we are going to do things. We deserve this kind of crap. Guess I better take down my flag outside my house I might offend some of my neighbors!

Gosh, you don't pay attention much, do you?
At first, post 9-11, I found myself annoyed to the point of irritation by people who constantly bitched like this.  Now, I am beginning to find them uproariously amusing.

My God!  What about the truckload of illegal immigrants you are offending too?  Or the terrorists here on student visas?  

The Olympics are our guests.  We paid for all the athletic facilities, etc.  We have the right to do whatever we want.  If it were in France, or some other socialist hell hole, then MAYBE they can ASK us not to be patriotic.  Just another case of the rest of the sh*t stain countries in the world trying to knock us off the top of the mountain.

It was not misinformation.  I will leave it at this then.  I felt I reached a point of diminishing utility in our exchange.  We could go back and forth about this forever, why?  My point on the targeting of cities was a commentary on the state of our system not a tactical one.  They probably do target with MX systems as well, point being they target them at all!  This becomes verboreah to go on and on.  To do any debate any justice we need proofs, documents, corroboration all of which can be put together, but it could take weeks.  I can afford that much time in this particular dialogue.  Others I spend my life investigating and diseminating.  You are right on one point, we are way off the thread line.

Kentlik

Umm...but the point you SAID you were trying to make was that Bush was weakening our defenses by getting rid of the MX.  What point ARE you trying to make??