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Posted: 6/14/2009 11:33:28 AM EDT
A short while back I was on Shotgunworld in the Tactical/Home Defense Forums, (also known as The Basement ) and we had a guy ask a simple question:
Specifically, I'm curious about how much the shot in standard 2-3/4" 9-pellet 00 buckshot weighs. Anyone know?
I tried figuring it out mathematically and came up with about 1.1 ounces. I thought that seemed a bit light, but I guess they can't pack big pellets as tight as birdshot, so I don't know. He had several guys try to help him. And several quoted manuals or lists which showed how much various sizes of buckshot were supposed to weigh. But they didn't quite agree exactly. Now, as you guys that know me might imagine, I had a better idea about how to solve this mystery. I got out a round of Wolf 9 pellet 00 Buckshot and a razor knife and cut it open. I then weighted the pellets. They were all between 59 and 60 grains, with an average of about 59.5 grains. So, 59.5 X 9 = 535.5 total grains of weight. Wolf lists the velocity as approximately 1,325 fps for the load. The pellets were approximately .340 inches in diameter. As I was in the weighing mood, I also dug out a round of Remington #4 Buckshot and did the same with it. It was a slightly higher quality load and had a plastic ground up buffer between the pellets to help keep the pellets round as they accelerated down the barrel. There were 27 - #4 pellets in the load, and each weighed approximately 19.5 grains, for a total weight of 526 grains. The pellets were approximately .240 in diameter. Okay, now that we have some facts, let's discuss why this is important to a person that intends to use his shotgun for home defense. We know from this Great Article posted on AR15.com, that no birdshot will reach the required FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Only buckshot will do that. So, which buckshot is "best"? The linked article sums this up in the last paragraphs where it points out the #1 Buck is probably the "best" buckshot load, but that it is hard to find, and 00 Buckshot is a very close second, so that is what most of us use. Let's put some false rumors to rest: 1. Birdshot is a good self defense load. This is false for several reasons. The main reason is that no birdshot load will reach the required 12 inches of penetration needed for STOPPING a bad guy from whatever he is doing to threaten your life. Birdshot makes a very nasty, yet shallow wound, and will not reach the vital organs or CNS. "Might" birdshot work? Sure. But why depend on "might" when "better" is available. Use birdshot for little birds. Use buckshot for bad guys. 2. Buckshot penetrates too much and will go through walls in my home. Sure it will. Any load that will STOP a bad guy, will also penetrate several interior walls, as I proved here: Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls Until someone invents a phaser, like on Star Trek, any load that will STOP a bad guy will also penetrate several walls. 3. Any buckshot will work about the same. While any buckshot is better than birdshot, the larger the buckshot pellets, the more they will weigh, and the more they will penetrate. The #4 Buckshot I measured is the "minimal" buckshot load, and will barely meet the penetration standards. Some folks like it, and some police departments even issue it, but it is the smallest buckshot and will penetrate the least. Larger is better, and 00 is preferred. 4. Getting shot with a load of 00 buckshot is like getting shot 9 times with a handgun. Not exactly. Each 00 pellet weighed about 60 grains. No normal handgun round shoots a bullet that light in weight. A .32 ACP round has a 71 grain bullet traveling at 900 fps. That is the lightest "common" handgun bullet around. But it is only doing 900 fps. The 00 buckshot pellets weigh 60 grains, but are doing 1,325 fps. There is no comparison between the two. And the shotgun pellets all hit the target at around the same time. Very effective. Conclusions: If you are loading your shotgun for home defense, you will be hard pressed to use a better load than 00 Buckshot. It is the best commonly available load. |
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Great article as always OP!
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If you are loading your shotgun for home defense, you will be hard pressed to use a better load than 00 Buckshot. It is the best commonly available load. In before the "Birdshot is Better" crowd. |
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Thanks Painless, I appreciate the time you take to make these informative posts.
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The 00 buckshot pellets weigh 60 grains, but are doing 1,325 fps. There is no comparison between the two.
How fast is a 55 or 62gr bullet out of an AR pistol? |
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So does this finally put an end to the buckshot/birdshot argument? How about the shotgun/AR argument? |
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Is the blade on your utility knife in backwards? no but you better check yours. |
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O_P delivers with nothing but the facts once again! Thanks! I love O_P's style. Everyone is spouting off from the manuals and books. He says, "Well, lemme cut one open and weigh those suckers." Empirical data FTW! |
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Quoted: Is the blade on your utility knife in backwards? No, the sharp part is facing away from us. |
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Thanks Painless, I appreciate the time you take to make these informative posts. He should have his own sub-forum. |
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BTW for inquiring minds that want to know:
535.5 grains = 1.22400 ounces |
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Is the blade on your utility knife in backwards? No, the sharp part is facing away from us. So it is. The reflection made me think the edge was facing us. I'll shut up now. |
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O_P delivers with nothing but the facts once again! Thanks! I love O_P's style. Everyone is spouting off from the manuals and books. He says, "Well, lemme cut one open and weigh those suckers." Empirical data FTW! I actually laughed out loud when I saw the guys quoting manuals and lists. I thought, Why don't we just cut one open? |
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O_P delivers with nothing but the facts once again! Thanks! I love O_P's style. Everyone is spouting off from the manuals and books. He says, "Well, lemme cut one open and weigh those suckers." Empirical data FTW! +1 If I didn't already know he was once a lawman, I would have assumed he was an engineer from back in the day before computers and scientific calculators. I keep expecting for him to whip out a slide rule. |
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A guy in my unit was shot with birdshot in the left shoulder while working at a gas station when he was a teenager. It left some wicked scars but did no real damage.
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2. Buckshot penetrates too much and will go through walls in my home. Sure it will. Any load that will STOP a bad guy, will also penetrate several interior walls, as I proved here: Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls Until someone invents a phaser, like on Star Trek, any load that will STOP a bad guy will also penetrate several walls. My favorite anology to illustrate how ridiculous the "wall penetration" objection is: It's not terribly hard to put your fist through sheetrock. I have yet to see anybody be able to punch *into* the chest cavity of a human being. If even a punch is enough to penetrate drywall, then why do people expect bullets - which have to actually penetrate into bodily cavities to acheive the desired effect - to just bounce off of a sheetrock wall? |
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O_P delivers with nothing but the facts once again! Thanks! I love O_P's style. Everyone is spouting off from the manuals and books. He says, "Well, lemme cut one open and weigh those suckers." Empirical data FTW! I actually laughed out loud when I saw the guys quoting manuals and lists. I thought, Why don't we just cut one open? That's so simple it just might work!!! |
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The 00 buckshot pellets weigh 60 grains, but are doing 1,325 fps. There is no comparison between the two.
How fast is a 55 or 62gr bullet out of an AR pistol? That's why I used the term "common handgun round". AR pistols are not really common handguns. But I'm sure they work just fine. |
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good write up as usual, and in before the birdshot window lickers
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Posted by OP
There were 24 - #4 pellets in the load, and each weighed approximately 19.5 grains, for a total weight of 468 grains. I count 27. |
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O_P delivers with nothing but the facts once again! Thanks! I love O_P's style. Everyone is spouting off from the manuals and books. He says, "Well, lemme cut one open and weigh those suckers." Empirical data FTW! I actually laughed out loud when I saw the guys quoting manuals and lists. I thought, Why don't we just cut one open? Reminds me of a neighbor of mine. He was laying pipe for a sprinkler system. He would measure the trench, go back and measure the pipe, then cut the pipe. I got sick of watching this stupidity. Walked over to his yard, picked up a full length pipe, threw it in the trench, cut it, he looked at me like then like . Great write up. I use a Mossberg 590 A1 for home defense with 00. I appreciate the facts and common sense from your post. |
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Posted by OP There were 24 - #4 pellets in the load, and each weighed approximately 19.5 grains, for a total weight of 468 grains. I count 27. Okay, you got me. Even had it right in my notes. Oh well, I fixed the original post. Thanks. |
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So you're telling me that birdshot wouldn't kill a bad guy? Would you want to be shot by it? Yeah, I didn't think so!!!
Just kidding! I figured I would get that nonsense out of the way, because we all know it's coming. Great article OP! I appreciate all the contributions you make on this website. I too have a natural curiosity about things. I'll often measure the weight or dimensions of a piece of gear just so I know. I may or may not know the exact weight of my EDC gear. That includes gun, holster, mag, ammo, belt... It's may or may not be organized on a spreadsheet. |
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Is there really a "birdshot vs buckshot" argument?
Finger or icepick, which is better for picking your nose? |
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Being a poor bastard, I don't have an expensive shotgun for apartment defense, just an old break-open NEF 20-gauge. How screwed am I using sabot slugs compared to buckshot?
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I knew as soon as I read the title that this would be an O_P writeup
Great job as always! |
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Being a poor bastard, I don't have an expensive shotgun for apartment defense, just an old break-open NEF 20-gauge. How screwed am I using sabot slugs compared to buckshot? You might find this video by my old buddy Clint Smith to be interesting: Using a Shotgun Note his great advice: "I don't need a thousand dollar shotgun, I just need to learn how to run the gun I got." And to answer your specific question, I would recommend buckshot in your 20 gauge. See why here: Buckshot and Slugs in a 20 Gauge |
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Never even heard of #1 buckshot. Learned something new today.
Anyone have this in their ammo box? ANOTHER great post by one of the most respected members of this site. Thank you O_P. Gene |
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Never even heard of #1 buckshot. Learned something new today. Anyone have this in their ammo box? I have seen some in the past and shot some through a shotgun. I do not presently have any in the inventory. Why? Because it is nearly impossible to find. If some ammunition manufacturer would come out with some plated, hardened, buffered, #1 Buckshot, in a Federal Flight Control Wad (), they would make a fortune. ANOTHER great post by one of the most respected members of this site.
Thank you O_P. Gene Many thanks, Gene. |
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Thanks!! You're welcome. I really need a shotgun.
Holy smoke! Don't tell me that you don't own a shotgun. Sell those wooden shoes and buy you one, for goodness sakes. |
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Is the blade on your utility knife in backwards? it is just laying with the blade portion facing up skippy. Funny though. |
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I really need a shotgun.
Holy smoke! Don't tell me that you don't own a shotgun. Sell those wooden shoes and buy you one, for goodness sakes. Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment WOODEN SHOES, and buy one. http://bible.cc/luke/22-36.htm |
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I really need a shotgun. Holy smoke! Don't tell me that you don't own a shotgun. Sell those wooden shoes and buy you one, for goodness sakes. I'm afraid it's true. It's one of those things that I keep INTENDING to get, but somehow never get around to. Although in my defense, at least I do own a lever rifle. |
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