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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The truth about Roswell?

Posted: 6/14/2009 8:39:07 AM EDT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8098245.stm

The truth about Roswell?

UFO watchers believe that in 1947 a flying saucer with aliens on board landed outside the New Mexico town of Roswell and that an elaborate cover-up by the authorities followed. The BBC's Kevin Connolly went to Roswell in pursuit of the truth about the Roswell incident.

There is a lunar quality to the landscape of New Mexico which seems somehow appropriate for a state which is our portal to the heavens.

Roswell's International UFO Museum is a big draw for tourists

It is here on a dried-up lake bed high above sea level that the radio telescopes of the US government's Very Large Array (VLA) send signals to the outer edges of our expanding universe, chasing the very moment of the Big Bang through the trackless void of time and space.

And of course it is also here - perhaps - that 62 years ago a flying-saucer crashed to earth on a ranch outside the town of Roswell, killing its alien crew and prompting one of the most elaborate and protracted cover-ups in history.

The power of that possibility and the darkness of the nights here so far from the light pollution of the big cities are what draw scientists and curious tourists alike to this entrancing place.

And it is what motivates watchers of the skies to keep, well, watching the skies, obviously.

Alien ambiguity

If UFO true-believers are right, then nothing much that has happened on our tiny, fragile planet in the years since that stormy summer's night really matters very much.

What, after all, would Watergate, or Vietnam or Iraq amount to if we could establish that the US government knew for sure that we are not alone in the universe?

Most of the big questions about alien life and UFOs can be traced back to Roswell - not least the issue of how life-forms from another civilisation have such an uncanny sense of when the tourist industry in a small US town could use a shot in the arm.

My father saw the bodies, my father saw the craft

Julie Shuster, daughter of Roswell Air Force Base press officer

Are we really alone in the heavens, for example, and if we are not, do the civilisations with which we share the heavens mean us any harm?

Is it just a coincidence that aliens have never managed to find an earth-dweller who knows how to operate his own camera properly?

And why, if you have journeyed light years across the unknowable vastness of the heavens, would you confine yourself to a fleeting and ambiguous appearance before a handful of New Mexican ranchers?

Why not go the extra mile and find a research institute of some kind - unless our visitors have a sense of humour, of course.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Let us return to that stormy summer New Mexican night in 1947 when the story of the UFO landing first broke.

It was a world of tension and uncertainty.

The United States had detonated the first atom bombs - they were developed just up the road at Los Alamos, New Mexico - and was uneasily aware that the Soviet Union, its increasingly hostile former ally, had nuclear ambitions of its own. The Cold War was just beginning.

'Switcheroo'

Roswell was in those days the home base of the 509th Bombardment Group of the US Eighth Army Air Force.

Most of the boys in the 509th were combat veterans and when they were tasked to investigate reports of some kind of landing on a ranch a short distance away it seems reasonable to assume they were not too excited at first. That soon changed.

When they got the material back to base, they quickly concluded they were onto something historic.

Their first press release talked of the recovery of a flying saucer - it was only when the suits descended from Washington that the tone of the official communiques changed.

The base intelligence officer who was tasked with taking the wreckage to another base reports leaving it in an office there and returning a few minutes later to find that the space debris he had brought had been replaced with parts of a weather balloon.

Dennis Balthaser believes the US government covered up a UFO crash

The fix was in. Faced with evidence of one of the most significant events in human history the American authorities had responded by pulling the old switcheroo.

One account of those days comes from Julie Shuster, whose father was the press officer at the Roswell base.

She now runs the museum in the town which is the focal point for the local UFO industry (it is on a street where the street lights have been decorated so that they look like alien heads).

For Julie there is a simple issue in all of this which goes back to the version of events her father passed on to her.

"My daddy didn't lie. My father saw the bodies, my father saw the craft," she says.

"He saw bodies - large heads, almond shaped eyes... and material that couldn't be burnt, ripped, cut - anything."

'Majestic 12'

It is not quite so personal for the other true believers in the incident.

Dennis Balthaser, for example, is a retired civil engineer who is perhaps the most meticulous researcher of the Roswell incident.

He has spent years (and thousands of dollars of his own money) tracing every witness and every player from that night in 1947 and is convinced that there was a landing.

Basically [the president] can't be trusted with information like this

Dennis Balthaser

Roswell researcher

But he is at his most compelling when talking about the cover-up which follows.

Dennis lives in a rather frightening world where the US government would be perfectly happy to murder anyone (including him) who got too close to the truth.

He believes the US is really governed by a kind of secret committee of senior military and intelligence officials with the president serving as a kind of hired hand to deal with the public.

"Basically he can't be trusted with information like this" says Dennis.

"Back in Truman's time, we're looking at a thing called 'majestic 12', which was a group of some of the highest military people, some of the highest dignitary people we had. I believe today we still have a group similar to that that calls the shots."

Even before I met Dennis, I knew he believed that space travellers helped build the pyramids - where I, for example, am more inclined to the view that they are probably the work of Egyptians.

I expected to find him hopelessly naive - but the funny thing is he is so lucid and convincing that I left feeling rather naive myself.

(And in case you were wondering - if anyone ever lifts a quote from this article to promote a book or a DVD it will be that previous sentence.)

Missing balloon?

But here is the problem.

I mentioned before that New Mexico is a place where real science and Roswell science-lite co-exist.

And it is in that proximity that our explanation probably lies.

At the VLA (that centre of government radio telescopy) they will tell you that around the time of the crash, the US government was sending up special high-altitude weather balloons made of a then-classified material.

They were looking for atmospheric evidence that the Russians were testing their own nuclear bomb.

On the night of the Roswell incident, one of those balloons went missing.

Until, perhaps, it was found by the boys of the 509th.

And all that stuff about alien bodies being recovered and autopsies being performed? Well I leave you to speculate about that for yourselves.

If you find all that a little disappointing then you can always employ the debating technique favoured by UFO true believers - the deployment of questions designed to expose the lack of absolute certainty in almost all human affairs.

How do you know, for example, that there really is not a government department 27 layers above top secret tasked with keeping an eye on these things?

Perhaps they insist that articles like this are submitted to them for screening before publication.

And maybe this is not the script I originally wrote and submitted - just the script they sent back.

You could hardly blame me for giving in - I am sure you would not want to find my bleached bones left out in the desert, would you?

All I am saying is - keep watching the skies.

Posted: 6/14/2009 8:40:35 AM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 6/14/2009 8:43:37 AM EDT

[#2]

There have been four official explainations from the USAF:

1) It was a flying saucer from another world.

2) It was merely a weather balloon.

3) It wasn't a weather balloon, but a top-secret spy balloon designed to measure radioactive traces of Soviet nuke tests.

4) It was crash test dummies testing new parachute designs.

We can conclude one thing: The USAF has lied at least three times.

Posted: 6/14/2009 8:48:31 AM EDT

[#3]

Posted: 6/14/2009 8:50:52 AM EDT

[#4]

mighty long arms...

Perhaps this gives insight to where the Wookie hails from...

Posted: 6/14/2009 8:55:11 AM EDT

[#5]

Funny how aliens always visit military bases...

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:04:12 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Funny how aliens always visit military bases...

How many cows are allowed on military bases?

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:11:49 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Funny how aliens always visit military bases...

Yes, and only land and abduct people on lonely rural roads where there's no witnesses...

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:12:53 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

There have been four official explainations from the USAF:

1) It was a flying saucer from another world.

2) It was merely a weather balloon.

3) It wasn't a weather balloon, but a top-secret spy balloon designed to measure radioactive traces of Soviet nuke tests.

4) It was crash test dummies testing new parachute designs.
We can conclude one thing: The USAF has lied at least three times.

This post is correct.

4) It was crash test dummies testing new parachute designs.

Number 4 was the latest attempt by the Air Force to explain. Only problem is that Number 4 occurred 10 years AFTER the Roswell crash.
5sub

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:14:09 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Funny how aliens always visit military bases...

Yes, and only land and abduct people on lonely rural roads where there's no witnesses...

Unless there are witnesses, in which case they are always uneducated, drunk or hallucinating hillbillys...

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:15:10 AM EDT

[#10]

Majestic 12

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:17:35 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Funny how aliens always visit military bases...

Yes, and only land and abduct people on lonely rural roads where there's no witnesses...

Here is an example of perhaps the best with no witnesses: "Fast Walker*" came in from outer space into earth's atmosphere, tripped two of our early warning satellites (infrared) and went BACK into outer space. I can't even imagine the energy required to pull such a maneuver.
5sub

*Was just the next event code spit out by the computers.

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:20:00 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8098245.stm

UFO watchers believe that in 1947 a flying saucer with aliens on board landed outside the New Mexico town of Roswell and that an elaborate cover-up by the authorities followed. The BBC's Kevin Connolly went to Roswell in pursuit of the truth about the Roswell incident.

If UFO true-believers are right, then nothing much that has happened on our tiny, fragile planet in the years since that stormy summer's night really matters very much.

What, after all, would Watergate, or Vietnam or Iraq amount to if we could establish that the US government knew for sure that we are not alone in the universe?

Roswell holds zero significance for our daily lives.... It occured before most of ARFCOM members were born, and there are no lasting impacts on our lives except for our culture. Watergate, Vietnam and Iraq are real events. Roswell is a good fairy tale..... People LOVE the idea that there are little green men visiting us...

If we are or are not alone in the Universe matters absolutely jack shit to our lives unless these "beings" decide to visit us and interact with us... If they exist, they would have been in overt contact with us long ago. 60 years and UFO stories have not changed one bit.....
We are better off assuming that it was a hoax and that we are alone until proven otherwise...
It is simply a form of entertainment for some and a distraction from the reality of their monotonous lives.....

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:30:43 AM EDT

[#13]

Every POTUS up till now might have kept this secret, but Obama and his ilk are looking for something to cause panic and fear, if this really happened they would already have released it in order to justify their authoritarian administration and anti freedom changes.

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:51:08 AM EDT

[#14]

In before mention of the anal probing.

Danny

Posted: 6/14/2009 9:58:56 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
There have been four official explainations from the USAF:

1) It was a flying saucer from another world.

2) It was merely a weather balloon.

3) It wasn't a weather balloon, but a top-secret spy balloon designed to measure radioactive traces of Soviet nuke tests.

4) It was crash test dummies testing new parachute designs.

We can conclude one thing: The USAF has lied at least three times.

this... and, i dont know what was there. but the original photos published were certainly not a weather balloon.

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:07:37 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8098245.stm

UFO watchers believe that in 1947 a flying saucer with aliens on board landed outside the New Mexico town of Roswell and that an elaborate cover-up by the authorities followed. The BBC's Kevin Connolly went to Roswell in pursuit of the truth about the Roswell incident.

If UFO true-believers are right, then nothing much that has happened on our tiny, fragile planet in the years since that stormy summer's night really matters very much.

What, after all, would Watergate, or Vietnam or Iraq amount to if we could establish that the US government knew for sure that we are not alone in the universe?

Roswell holds zero significance for our daily lives.... It occured before most of ARFCOM members were born, and there are no lasting impacts on our lives except for our culture. Watergate, Vietnam and Iraq are real events. Roswell is a good fairy tale..... People LOVE the idea that there are little green men visiting us...

If we are or are not alone in the Universe matters absolutely jack shit to our lives unless these "beings" decide to visit us and interact with us... If they exist, they would have been in overt contact with us long ago. 60 years and UFO stories have not changed one bit.....
We are better off assuming that it was a hoax and that we are alone until proven otherwise...
It is simply a form of entertainment for some and a distraction from the reality of their monotonous lives.....

i'm not sure what happened at roswell. but there sure was an explosion of technology in the years that followed. some, including some high ranking military folk have stepped forward and stated that a huge reverse enginerring program was developed shortly afterwoods due to the roswell incident.

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:17:37 AM EDT

[#17]

There is no such thing as aliens from outer space.

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:21:43 AM EDT

[#18]

Awesome Alien Video
This video is hilarious.

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:24:34 AM EDT

[#19]

I live here in Roswell, it's a relatively quiet town situated in the desert in the middle of nowhere. Most residents, young and old don't believe anything unusual happened here. Ironically the firm believers are those that have the most to gain from tourism. If not for the speculation

of visiting Aliens there'd be nothing here to see. Nothing more than a source of income for a town that otherwise would be unheard of.

The picture of the Alien in the article shown is a movie prop donated to the museum. The museum itself is the cheesiest, low budget- laughable at best presentation ever created. The admission of $2.00 is a tell-tale sign of its ridiculous contents, and the entire tour takes no

longer than 15-20 minutes using a walker.

I'm quite certain that the only Aliens here are illegals that crossed the border.

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:28:34 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
i'm not sure what happened at roswell. but there sure was an explosion of technology in the years that followed. some, including some high ranking military folk have stepped forward and stated that a huge reverse enginerring program was developed shortly afterwoods due to the roswell incident.[/div]

There has been a huge technology explosion since Tesla and Edison were battling over AC and DC current.....

Unless the spaceship used a mainframe computer that took up the entire interior of it, I do not see any technology being attributed to Roswell.....

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:33:15 AM EDT

[#21]

Well, if we are to find out, it will be in the next 4 years.

Why?

Because Joe Biden will run his mouth about it

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:40:03 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Hey, don't knock it. The alien stuff has its place.

As long as people are focused on retarded alien theories they aren't looking at the real stuff. I mean, Groom lake, Area 51and others, NTS, etc. are pretty secure as long as the rubber neckers are looking for aliens as opposed to actual events.

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:44:37 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
In before mention of the anal probing.

Danny

Uhmmm, something you wanna tells us???

J/K, we know you did not like it..

Posted: 6/14/2009 10:56:40 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I live here in Roswell, it's a relatively quiet town situated in the desert in the middle of nowhere. Most residents, young and old don't believe anything unusual happened here. Ironically the firm believers are those that have the most to gain from tourism. If not for the speculation
of visiting Aliens there'd be nothing here to see. Nothing more than a source of income for a town that otherwise would be unheard of.

The picture of the Alien in the article shown is a movie prop donated to the museum. The museum itself is the cheesiest, low budget- laughable at best presentation ever created. The admission of $2.00 is a tell-tale sign of its ridiculous contents, and the entire tour takes no
longer than 15-20 minutes using a walker.

I'm quite certain that the only Aliens here are illegals that crossed the border.

Everthing he said.

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:08:24 AM EDT

[#25]

The truth about Roswell is unequivocally, it is in New Mexico.

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:09:31 AM EDT

[#26]

Anyone who watched Futurama knows the truth about Roswell.

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:09:58 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
The truth about Roswell is unequivocally, it is in New Mexico.

What about the one in Georgia?

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:11:19 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The truth about Roswell is unequivocally, it is in New Mexico.

What about the one in Georgia?

we don't talk about them

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:34:52 AM EDT

[#29]

Has anyone mentioned anal probing?

ETA: Yep. Damn, folks round here are quick when it comes to anal probing.

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:35:32 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Has anyone mentioned anal probing?

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:41:04 AM EDT

[#31]

THE TRUTH IS IN THERE

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:56:43 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I live here in Roswell, it's a relatively quiet town situated in the desert in the middle of nowhere. Most residents, young and old don't believe anything unusual happened here. Ironically the firm believers are those that have the most to gain from tourism. If not for the speculation
of visiting Aliens there'd be nothing here to see. Nothing more than a source of income for a town that otherwise would be unheard of.

The picture of the Alien in the article shown is a movie prop donated to the museum. The museum itself is the cheesiest, low budget- laughable at best presentation ever created. The admission of $2.00 is a tell-tale sign of its ridiculous contents, and the entire tour takes no
longer than 15-20 minutes using a walker.

I'm quite certain that the only Aliens here are illegals that crossed the border.

The truth about Roswell is that I bought my first Glock there (at Discount Guns on Main St), and that I was really disapointed when El Toro Bravo was purchased by a new owner.

On a serious note, my understanding is the incident happened closer to Carrizozo than Roswell.

Man, I miss home.

Posted: 6/14/2009 11:57:00 AM EDT

[#33]

Roswell is nothing but a prank that has been added to and added to and added to over the years.

Most of the people who have "seen the bodies" have been proven to be fabricating what they have seen or incorporated something innocent that they witnessed into a sinister, yet mytholgical chain of events that really never happened.

Roswell is 100 percent bunk.

Posted: 6/14/2009 12:04:37 PM EDT

[#34]

The rancher who discovered the "wreckage" himself said that the materials that he found would only add up to a few pounds of stuff at most.

"Brazel told the Roswell Daily Record that he and his son saw a "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.""

So either he found something mundane, or aliens visited this world after traversing the depths of space in a ship made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, paper and wooden sticks.

Also the whole Roswell = UFO didn't really start up until 1978, about 30 years after the original incident:
" In 1978, former nuclear physicist and author Stanton T. Friedman interviewed Jesse Marcel, the only person known to have accompanied the Roswell debris from where it was recovered to Fort Worth. Over the next few years, the accounts he and others gave elevated Roswell from a forgotten incident to perhaps the most famous UFO case of all time."

Posted: 6/14/2009 12:56:24 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I live here in Roswell, it's a relatively quiet town situated in the desert in the middle of nowhere. Most residents, young and old don't believe anything unusual happened here. Ironically the firm believers are those that have the most to gain from tourism. If not for the speculation
of visiting Aliens there'd be nothing here to see. Nothing more than a source of income for a town that otherwise would be unheard of.

The picture of the Alien in the article shown is a movie prop donated to the museum. The museum itself is the cheesiest, low budget- laughable at best presentation ever created. The admission of $2.00 is a tell-tale sign of its ridiculous contents, and the entire tour takes no
longer than 15-20 minutes using a walker.

I'm quite certain that the only Aliens here are illegals that crossed the border.

Everthing he said.

I live just down the road from Roswell.

Everything he said.

Posted: 6/14/2009 1:02:58 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Every POTUS up till now might have kept this secret, but Obama and his ilk are looking for something to cause panic and fear, if this really happened they would already have released it in order to justify their authoritarian administration and anti freedom changes.

Yes people be very afraid! There are aliens from outer space that come to anal probe you. To prevent this, you must surrender your Rights
and let the gov't anal probe you.

It's the only way to be sure!

Posted: 6/14/2009 1:05:58 PM EDT

[#37]

Here's what i think:

Roswell was a test of a saucer type aircraft by the united states govt. I deep black project. The technology was gained from captured tech during the technology raids during the final weeks of WW2. The saucer technology was simply work that had been started by the Germans.

All of the flying saucers are projects that all stem their lineage back to the captured German technology that we have obviously worked and improved upon

Posted: 6/14/2009 1:41:49 PM EDT

[#38]

I saw something in 1977 south of lakehurst naval air station that bought out choppers and mp's in jeeps chasing us for seeing it and it was no weather balloon and it was way quicker and faster then any fighter plane I have ever seen and larger then a football field

Posted: 6/14/2009 3:53:20 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z316/runcible22/CartmanAnalProbe.jpg

THE TRUTH IS IN THERE

Posted: 6/14/2009 4:20:38 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
The rancher who discovered the "wreckage" himself said that the materials that he found would only add up to a few pounds of stuff at most.

"Brazel told the Roswell Daily Record that he and his son saw a "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.""

So either he found something mundane, or aliens visited this world after traversing the depths of space in a ship made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, paper and wooden sticks.

Also the whole Roswell = UFO didn't really start up until 1978, about 30 years after the original incident:
" In 1978, former nuclear physicist and author Stanton T. Friedman interviewed Jesse Marcel, the only person known to have accompanied the Roswell debris from where it was recovered to Fort Worth. Over the next few years, the accounts he and others gave elevated Roswell from a forgotten incident to perhaps the most famous UFO case of all time."

Just a random bit of trivia: Brazel, the rancher credited with discovering the wreckage at Roswell, was the nephew of Wayne Brazel, the man who killed Pat Garrett.

Posted: 6/14/2009 4:27:13 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I live here in Roswell, it's a relatively quiet town situated in the desert in the middle of nowhere. Most residents, young and old don't believe anything unusual happened here. Ironically the firm believers are those that have the most to gain from tourism. If not for the speculation
of visiting Aliens there'd be nothing here to see. Nothing more than a source of income for a town that otherwise would be unheard of.

The picture of the Alien in the article shown is a movie prop donated to the museum. The museum itself is the cheesiest, low budget- laughable at best presentation ever created. The admission of $2.00 is a tell-tale sign of its ridiculous contents, and the entire tour takes no
longer than 15-20 minutes using a walker.

I'm quite certain that the only Aliens here are illegals that crossed the border.

Everthing he said.

I live just down the road from Roswell.

Everything he said.

What they both said.