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Posted: 1/18/2002 2:29:20 PM EDT
[#1]
I believe Lt. Col. North considered himself to be a good soldier and did his duty as he saw fit.
One of his jobs was to protect his President (Reagan) and he did. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 2:32:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Where's Achmed? He may have some thoughts on the matter.
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Posted: 1/18/2002 2:39:21 PM EDT
[#3]
5sub, not to be a pain, but Colonel North was NOT a good soldier...
He was one hell of a hard-charging, loyal, lead chomping, God-faring MARINE! I first met the Colonel when I was a student in college and I hosted him for the Young America's Foundation. Boy was the liberal faculty in a tizzy, but 1,200 out of 1,400 students showed - the largest turn-out for any student event EVER at my college. The Colonel was a gracious man, sharing his time and insight. I remember I was taking him in the back entrance to the auditorium with his security detail when we spotted a scraggly looking Vietnam vet in a wheelchair. The Colonel stopped us, went to him to shake his hand and the vet (God bless him) forced himself to stand on wobbly legs to salute him! Ollie gave him a hug and as we left I noticed he was weeping. He didn't ask for a moment to compose himself, he pushed on right into the conference center. This was a man who was not afraid to show his love for this country or his pride to have served along with that crippled vet. Later that night when he was signing autographed books on his chartered Lear for me prior to his departure he asked who to make the last one out to. I told him to make it out to Major General XXXXXX. He dropped the book and looked at me kind of sideways and asked how I knew the General. When I told him the General was my uncle he got a big smile on his face and proceeded to sit me down and tell me what an honor it was to serve under him. Now my uncle was Army, and Ollie a Marine. Turns out they worked together in the Intel field before Ollie's stint in the White House. I was beaming with pride when he told me my uncle was the finest commander he ever served under. Probably just being polite, but it made me feel 10 feet tall. One of the finest men I've ever met, hands down! |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 2:49:50 PM EDT
[#4]
My understanding is that North lied under oath to a Congressional Committee. If so, that makes him a criminal. If so, it also means that broke his oath as a U.S. Mariine, disgracing the uniform he wore and insulting other Marines who consider their word to have some value.
You don't take a solemn oath and then pick and choose the times you adhere to it! |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 3:17:08 PM EDT
[#5]
OT: he currently sit as a NRA board member.
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Posted: 1/18/2002 3:46:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: 5sub, not to be a pain, but Colonel North was NOT a good soldier... He was one hell of a hard-charging, loyal, lead chomping, God-faring MARINE! I first met the Colonel when I was a student in college and I hosted him for the Young America's Foundation. Boy was the liberal faculty in a tizzy, but 1,200 out of 1,400 students showed - the largest turn-out for any student event EVER at my college. The Colonel was a gracious man, sharing his time and insight. I remember I was taking him in the back entrance to the auditorium with his security detail when we spotted a scraggly looking Vietnam vet in a wheelchair. The Colonel stopped us, went to him to shake his hand and the vet (God bless him) forced himself to stand on wobbly legs to salute him! Ollie gave him a hug and as we left I noticed he was weeping. He didn't ask for a moment to compose himself, he pushed on right into the conference center. This was a man who was not afraid to show his love for this country or his pride to have served along with that crippled vet. Later that night when he was signing autographed books on his chartered Lear for me prior to his departure he asked who to make the last one out to. I told him to make it out to Major General XXXXXX. He dropped the book and looked at me kind of sideways and asked how I knew the General. When I told him the General was my uncle he got a big smile on his face and proceeded to sit me down and tell me what an honor it was to serve under him. Now my uncle was Army, and Ollie a Marine. Turns out they worked together in the Intel field before Ollie's stint in the White House. I was beaming with pride when he told me my uncle was the finest commander he ever served under. Probably just being polite, but it made me feel 10 feet tall. One of the finest men I've ever met, hands down! H. Ranger, no pain at all. I realize the Col. was not Army. The way the words "good soldier" were meant could apply to a civilian or any branch of the military. Soldier on ! Just wanted to add that Col North would have said something such as...."Please convey my respects to the General"... had he not meant exactly what he said about your uncle. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 5:06:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Well we can argue whether he lied to Congress or not. Congress was on a witch hunt, looking to undermine national security in the name of oversight. I think he may have been less than complete in his answers, and if people interpreted the wrong thing from the answer he gave... oh well.
Congress sometimes forgets that foreign policy is the province of the Executive Branch and complete honesty is sometimes the victim of national security. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 5:34:44 PM EDT
[#8]
BS – North apparently lied to Congress to save his own *ss and Ron's, who (with the connivance of North and others) sold arms to the very same gang of Iranian religious wackos who stormed the U.S. Embassy and held U.S. citizens hostages for so long!
And the justification for all this "statesmanlike behaviour" and disavowall of principles? To buy arms for the Contras in an attempt to subdue Nicaragua – a country with three elevators – that was to bring about the downfall of the U.S. – BS! North was a manipulator and a fixer who involved himself in partisan politics and, as such, is disgrace to the very core of what the U.S. Marine Corp. (or the military in general) is meant to stand for. Don't let the glossy paint job blind you to the corrosion beneath the surface. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:00:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Well stc, every Marine I have ever met thinks Ollie is an honorable man. Maybe they were all a disgrace to the Corps too!
Where exactly are you from stc? Ever wear the anchor and globe? By what knowledge do you declare him a disgrace? |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:03:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: My understanding is that North lied under oath to a Congressional Committee. If so, that makes him a criminal. If so, it also means that broke his oath as a U.S. Mariine, disgracing the uniform he wore and insulting other Marines who consider their word to have some value. You don't take a solemn oath and then pick and choose the times you adhere to it! Sorry, but I've got to correct you here. Oliver North was forced (subpoened) to testify before congress. His testimony could not be used against him, but later on IT WAS. As a result, his conviction was overturned. You may have ideas that he lied before Congress, but none of that was ever proven. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:17:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Stcyr
With all due respect you are full of left wing B.S. North was Reagan's point man at a very dangerous time in our country's history. The left wingers in the U.S. had kicked everybody butt over Vietnam. The bad guy commies wre trying to take advantage of that and expand their influence in Central and South America big time. It would caused major problems for the good guys (us)if the countries in Latin America had gone the way of Cuba. Congress did not have the guts to deal with the problem and RR knew that. He got his trusted Marine to go and fix the problem. Thank the good Lord that LtC North had the guts to get the job done. Weaker individuals would not have succeded. Yea, he had to lie cheat and steal to get the job done. He provided a great survice to his country. Left wingers hate him. If you want to see what might have happend had we not had men like LtC North please go rent the movie Red Dawn. A little bit of Hollywood but a lot of truth. Read the introduction to the movie on the screen. It describes a reasonable senerio of what could have happend if the left wingers would have been calling all the shots instead of men like Ollie North. He was a key player in getting the Soviets to give up. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:24:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Oliver North is a true American Hero. Period. End of story.
Anyone who thinks differently has simply bought into the liberal media's spin on anything having to do with the Reagan Presidency. Eric The(GetYourHistoryStraight)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:47:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Oh! Well then Eric, after such an authortative statement, there is no longer any need for discussion or any alternative point of view!
Hiram Ranger, I'm a Limey with regimental shoulder flashes that I would put against anyone's. I came across a lot of Marines who were over in the U.K. for special training – decades ago. They struck me as guys with a particularly high level of personal self-esteem and professionalism and an even higher level of respect for the outfit they served. They never once hinted that their oath was up for grabs by whomsoever might be in power at any particular time – those guys had far more self-respect! In fact, I was so much of the same mind that I resigned my commission when I found I was being used (illegally) by my own government. The U.S. marines I met would have done the same! |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:50:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Never met him, and he seems honorable enough, but I can't help but remember one of his lines during the Congressional hearings:
Paraphrased quote:...If this president tells me to go in a corner and [i]stand on my head[/i], I am duty-bound to do so... Huh[?] Say what[?] Go in a corner and stand on your head[?][%|] In light of that revelation, here's another order to consider: S/he (<-PC): [%|]"Grunt, go [i]pop your head over that hill[/i] and lookie-see what the enemy is up to."[BD] Me: [;D]"I'd sure love to, Leut. Poopdeck., Ma'am/Sir, but I haven't been trained in that specialty right yet. Coodja demonstrate[?][:D]" Edited to add that, just to clarify my point - some orders are stupid & some are downright wrong. I'd think a good soldier should know the difference between the two; tolerate the former, but refuse to carry out the latter. Stand on your head[?][%|] Ollie N. [i]seems[/i] like a decent fellow, someone to count on in a SHTF scenario. But, like I said - I never met him. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:54:57 PM EDT
[#15]
This is an eye opener.
Pretty interesting clip form Reilly Factor News on TV You know, it's funny. I remember very vividly the Oliver North hearings, but did not recall the name of Osama bin Laden as the terrorist that North was threatened by. Has this slimeball been around that long? It's pretty evident that we should have listened to Ollie! I was at a UNC lecture the other day where they played a video of Oliver North during the Iran-Contra deals during the Reagan administration. I was only 14 back then but was surprised by this particular clip. There was Ollie in front of God and Country getting the third degree. But what he said stunned me. He was being drilled by some senator I didn't recognize who asked him; 'Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?' Oliver replied, 'Yes I did sir.' The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, 'Isn't this just a little excessive?' 'No sir,' continued Oliver. 'No. And why not?' 'Because the life of my family and I were threatened.' 'Threatened? By who.' 'By a terrorist, sir.' 'Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?' 'His name is Osama bin Laden.' At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. 'Why are you so afraid of this man?' 'Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of.' 'And what do you recommend we do about him?' 'If it were me I would recommend an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth.' The senator disagreed with this approach and that was all they showed of the clip. It's scary when you think 15 years ago the government was aware of Osama bin Laden and his potential threat to the security of the world. I guess like all great tyrants they start small but if left untended spread like the virus they truly are. The Senator was Al Gore. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 6:58:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Post from stcyr -
Oh! Well then Eric, after such an authortative statement, there is no longer any need for discussion or any alternative point of view! Oh, I see your British and are probably not as well acquainted with Col. North as I assumed everyone here must be. Tell me where you got your bad views of Col. North, and I'll seek to dispel whatever you can come up with as a complaint against this man. The man was excellent and doing his duty to his Commander-in-Chief. Do you realize that he was the fellow at the NSA that put together the plan to intercept the luxury liner [i]Achille Lauro's[/i] hi-jackers as they left Egyptian airspace, and forcing their plane to land at a military base in Sicily where the hoodlums were taken into custody by the Italian military? Now tell me something [i]wicked[/i] you've heard about this man. Eric The(We'llTradeTitForTat)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 8:41:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Ollie North is an Hero and a patriot.
We need more like him. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 8:44:55 PM EDT
[#18]
... the Country could use a few more men of his caliber.
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Posted: 1/18/2002 9:03:23 PM EDT
[#19]
He's like the Jack Nicholson character on A Few Good Men. We need them and should be happy that they're doing their job, even if some of their techniques won't quite stand up to the review of the faint hearted liberals.
Sept. 11 was a wake up call for our country. It made people realize that protecting a country sometimes means that you have to bend a few rules. People are a lot more receptive today than before 9/11. The Iran/Contra thing happened in a time when the cold war was still going on. We were up against the Soviet Union and had been for a while. It was expedient to do certain things and that's what Reagan and North and etc. etc. did. They just didn't have the time to teach our society what needed to be done or convince them. Even in hind sight, what they did was not of the magnitude of what it was made out to be. I mean geez, when it comes down to it, Iran hadn't really done anything significant to us (other than possibly supporting terrorism). They kept a bunch of Americans hostage for a while but didn't kill them. We got them back after Carter was removed from office. They were difinitely on a witch hunt when this was going on and pretty damned stupid. The ones trying to build a case against Reagan were the real traitors. It was an embarrasment to see the whole thing happen. We have to screw around with other countries to keep things working, some people just can't deal with it. North was one of the good guys. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 9:36:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Surely, Eric. I am always willing to listen to the other side of an argument. I will also freely admit that my opinion of North is partly based on sound bites, but more than that, it is based based on my opinions of your own troops (Marines) who would never have participated in the type of activities that North was a principle –although I admit that I am talking about 30 years ago.
So, please enlighten me just how a Marine Lt. Col. can lie to Congress and still retaiin his oath of allegiance and his honor. |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 9:47:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: BS – North apparently lied to Congress to save his own *ss and Ron's, who (with the connivance of North and others) sold arms to the very same gang of Iranian religious wackos who stormed the U.S. Embassy and held U.S. citizens hostages for so long! And the justification for all this "statesmanlike behaviour" and disavowall of principles? To buy arms for the Contras in an attempt to subdue Nicaragua – a country with three elevators – that was to bring about the downfall of the U.S. – BS! North was a manipulator and a fixer who involved himself in partisan politics and, as such, is disgrace to the very core of what the U.S. Marine Corp. (or the military in general) is meant to stand for. Don't let the glossy paint job blind you to the corrosion beneath the surface. Go eat a kiwi. It was a good idea. Americans are known for innovation. What the F*ck are you guys known for? |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 10:32:14 PM EDT
[#22]
QCMGR,
How about most everything apart from pig-ignorance! |
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Posted: 1/18/2002 10:39:57 PM EDT
[#23]
I am not posting to take a stand in this discussion, but to point out that there is a great book to read about Col North, and his contemporaries. It is about North, James Webb, John McCain, John Poindexter, Robert McFarlane. They all graduated from Canoe U., and they all knew each other. What they all experienced, and how the lessons that they carried with them into the Reagan administration is the subject of the book "The Nightingales Song". It is factual and non biased with great insight into the lives and actions of these dedicated men. Read it and come to your own informed conclusions.
wabi |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 12:32:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Don't get me started.
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Posted: 1/19/2002 1:52:25 AM EDT
[#25]
hey Maxwell...that crap about ollie naming OBL as the reason he bought the home security system is crap. it has been de-bunked time and time again. check out www.snopes.com and browse around in the military section i believe. i looked it up myself in a commonly available paperback transcript of the proceedings. its not there. i dont know what idiot fabricated that little tale but its lame at best. actually i group that right alongside "5.56 is designed to wound" if you believe either one of those you need to put on your tinfoil hat, "let god sort em out" T-shirt and cammie trousers and head immediately to the gunshow for another dose of "truth"
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Posted: 1/19/2002 2:25:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Oliver North is a true American Hero. Period. End of story. Anyone who thinks differently has simply bought into the liberal media's spin on anything having to do with the Reagan Presidency. Eric The(GetYourHistoryStraight)Hun[>]:)] Well said Eric (hey, that's my name!)The Hun! I stand with you 110% Tyler |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 3:24:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Oliver North is a true American Hero. Period. End of story. Anyone who thinks differently has simply bought into the liberal media's spin on anything having to do with the Reagan Presidency. Eric The(GetYourHistoryStraight)Hun[>]:)] ....and I would truly consider it an honor if I were given the opportunity to shake his hand. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 3:58:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Surely, Eric. I am always willing to listen to the other side of an argument. I will also freely admit that my opinion of North is partly based on sound bites, but more than that, it is based based on my opinions of your own troops (Marines) who would never have participated in the type of activities that North was a principle –although I admit that I am talking about 30 years ago. So, please enlighten me just how a Marine Lt. Col. can lie to Congress and still retaiin his oath of allegiance and his honor. We are here to serve our God, Country and Corps. In that order. We do what's right for our country BEFORE ourselves and our beloved Corps. Thats what we are here for. Thats what LtCOL North did and that's why he is a hero to us Marines. True, there are a lot who think otherwise, but these people were also too young at the time this stuff was going on to understand what he did for America. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 4:29:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Surely, Eric. I am always willing to listen to the other side of an argument. I will also freely admit that my opinion of North is partly based on sound bites, but more than that, it is based based on my opinions of your own troops (Marines) who would never have participated in the type of activities that North was a principle –although I admit that I am talking about 30 years ago. So, please enlighten me just how a Marine Lt. Col. can lie to Congress and still retaiin his oath of allegiance and his honor. Well I am an Officer of US Marines, in general most Marine (and many Americans also) respect him because he stood up to congress. We have a duty to defend the nation, even if its elected official are try to sell it out, in the name of partisan politics. I really only know a few Marines that think poorly of LtCol North. When asked about why they do, the normally give something that could be quoted direct quote from the lips of a college professor that misses his days of burning the flag and protesting. They never can site anything he really did wrong. Or aren't aware of the fact that the foreman of the jury said "what would it look like if we (a 100 percent black group from Washington, DC) let him go." That was one of the reasons the conviction was over turned, that they used illegal evidence and their was no way he got a fair trail in the partisan atmosphere. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 8:45:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: QCMGR, How about most everything apart from pig-ignorance! Good one Potsie! |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 9:40:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Well stc, every Marine I have ever met thinks Ollie is an honorable man. Maybe they were all a disgrace to the Corps too! Where exactly are you from stc? Ever wear the anchor and globe? By what knowledge do you declare him a disgrace? Have you met many service people - even those not Marines - who did not consider Ollie an honorable man ? Or is honor capability only confined to Marines ? |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 9:50:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: My understanding is that North lied under oath to a Congressional Committee. If so, that makes him a criminal. If so, it also means that broke his oath as a U.S. Mariine, disgracing the uniform he wore and insulting other Marines who consider their word to have some value. You don't take a solemn oath and then pick and choose the times you adhere to it! stcyr, plainly my post is simply an opinion of one. Mine. Col North lied to congress. Col North is a "man of honor." Understanding the political process involved I see no contradiction. Hopefully once again we are only divided by a commonality of language. [smoke] |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 10:43:42 AM EDT
[#33]
I have never heard any U.S. serviceman (or woman) call North a dishonorable man. The Marines I knew were in uniform around 1970, well before the Iran-Contra deal making and I have never discussed the matter with any of them since then.
However, I do remember that they, like me, thought that the military should not get involved with politics – on any side. And that to do so is a recipe for disaster. Just ask anyone from Chile, El Salvador, Guatemala, Peru, Argentina, Paraguay, Nigeria, Iraq, the Congo etc., etc, etc. From my understanding, Iran-Contra was more than a some shady clandestine affair, it was illegal and both North and Reagan knew it. Making arms deals with the Iranians who sacked the U.S. Embassy and held its diplomats for hostage and then using those profits to support the Contras? Is that the way foriegn policy should be conducted? Is this what you mean by patriotism? |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 11:05:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Maxwell-you've been reading too much internet fiction. The terrorist named by Ollie North at the hearings was Abu Nidal, not OBL. This scumbag did in fact attempt to assasinate Ollie North & his family. Bunch of sweethearts, these peace-loving muslims.
P.S.-the Saudis can go piss up a rope. U.S. forces out! We've been propping up these corrupt bastards for too long. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 11:09:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: P.S.-the Saudis can go piss up a rope. U.S. forces out! We've been propping up these corrupt bastards for too long. Again, my opinion only. More U.S. Forces in. Seize the oil fields. We're going to seize them at some point. Now is as good a time as any. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 11:24:10 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: This is an eye opener. Pretty interesting clip form Reilly Factor News on TV You know, it's funny. I remember very vividly the Oliver North hearings, but did not recall the name of Osama bin Laden as the terrorist that North was threatened by. Has this slimeball been around that long? It's pretty evident that we should have listened to Ollie! I was at a UNC lecture the other day where they played a video of Oliver North during the Iran-Contra deals during the Reagan administration. I was only 14 back then but was surprised by this particular clip. There was Ollie in front of God and Country getting the third degree. But what he said stunned me. He was being drilled by some senator I didn't recognize who asked him; 'Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?' Oliver replied, 'Yes I did sir.' The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, 'Isn't this just a little excessive?' 'No sir,' continued Oliver. 'No. And why not?' 'Because the life of my family and I were threatened.' 'Threatened? By who.' 'By a terrorist, sir.' 'Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?' 'His name is Osama bin Laden.' At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. 'Why are you so afraid of this man?' 'Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of.' 'And what do you recommend we do about him?' 'If it were me I would recommend an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth.' The senator disagreed with this approach and that was all they showed of the clip. It's scary when you think 15 years ago the government was aware of Osama bin Laden and his potential threat to the security of the world. I guess like all great tyrants they start small but if left untended spread like the virus they truly are. The Senator was Al Gore. Did a little searching on the internet. Here's the facts. Just goes to show you not to believe everything you hear. This is a link to Col. Norths Web-page. [URL]http://www.northamerican.com/EMAIL_RESPONSE.htm[/URL] |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 11:27:01 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: From my understanding, Iran-Contra was more than a some shady clandestine affair, Please enlighten us. it was illegal and both North and Reagan knew it. Source? Making arms deals with the Iranians who sacked the U.S. Embassy and held its diplomats for hostage and then using those profits to support the Contras? Is that the way foriegn policy should be conducted? Is this what you mean by patriotism? Let's see, The hostages were released, the communist were defeated and it was done on somebody else's dime. I still think it was a great plan. Congress wanted us to stay out of WW II , until they changed their mind. Don't forget Billy Mitchell, he bucked the status quo and look how he was treated. History will be the judge. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 11:34:05 AM EDT
[#38]
stcyr, Ollie is a great man and a great Marine.
He did his job, which at that time was to protect the Presidency. For doing his job to the fullest extent, he kept his oath. [smoke] |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 12:57:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Iran Contra centered on Congress attempting to restrict how the President conducts foreign policy, a direct conflict with the Executive Branch's constitutionally mandated power to conduct foreign relations on behalf of the United States.
The SOLE power of Congress when it comes to foreign relations is the appropriating of money and the ratification of any treaties. Neither applied here. Congress's attempt to interfere with the President's duty and power is what was illegal here, and any effort to thwart Congress's illegal restrictions are justified and proper. The rest of the world, and a whole lot of Americans, need to wake up and realize they sleep under the blanket of freedom that Oliver North and countless others like him provided. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 12:58:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Has anyone ever heard of REX84? This was Ollie's baby too....
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Posted: 1/19/2002 1:12:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Has anyone ever heard of REX84? This was Ollie's baby too.... Nope. Care to fill us in ?? |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 1:13:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Old Ollies pretty crafty.
No jail time. Because of Iran-Contra, he's a millionaire, instead-of/in-addition-to just drawing Marine officer's retirement. Say what you want about him, he's laughing all of the way to the bank. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 2:09:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Another jarhead votes for hero status. He's one of the few people of any fame with whom I'd actually like to shake hands. I wouldn't place any politicians or entertainers on that list and its a short list.
FWIW, in general, I would have to agree that Marines understand honor, and loyalty, better than most. My greatest difficulty in civilian life has been in maintaining that code while existing amongst a population where lying, cheating, and conniving have become not only acceptable and commonplace, but almost necessary for survival. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 5:10:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Ollie North is an Hero and a patriot. We need more like him. i agree. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 5:21:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Has anyone ever heard of REX84? This was Ollie's baby too.... I know about REX84 and even posted a link to the audio excerpt from the hearings concerning it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 5:52:29 PM EDT
[#46]
I support Ollie North because he flaunted the idol of democracy to support the fight against evil.
I, personally, do not believe in democracy. I think the fight against communism was hindered by democracy, and specifically in this case, the vanquishing of of communism in Central America was worth circumventing democratic institutions that would have subverted the effort in order to score political points against the Reagan administration. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 6:32:50 PM EDT
[#47]
STCYR
You are right, Americans are "pig-ignorant". We are ignorant of the fact that taking guns away from the individual serves a greater good for society. Our fiends from the UK think we are stupid ignorant fools for thinking it is OK for us to be able to protect ourselves. We are also ignorant in thinking that the government is the problem not the solution. Our friends in the rest of the world would disagree with us. They like the idea of government calling all the shots and redistributing the wealth. A lttle over 200 years ago the good people of the UK thought we were ignorant fools for us not wanting to kiss the butt of the king of England. For some reason we didn't get called ignorant when our troops shifted the blance of power in the last part of WWI. We also were not called ignorant when our ships loaded with war material arrived to help save our good friends in the UK in the early 1940's. I know the brave GIs that landed along side the Tommies in Normandy were not refered to in the British press as pig-ignorant. Our money and political influence to restore Europe after WWII was not generally refered to as ignorance by too many of the receipitants. You can take your European "enlightenment". I'll take my American pig-ignorance. Thank God for men like Ollie North! |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 7:01:41 PM EDT
[#48]
I am glad that I will never have to walk a single step in his shoes. God bless him.
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Posted: 1/19/2002 7:54:22 PM EDT
[#49]
FLASH66,
You either misunderstood my response to a specific offensive post, when I was refering to that post alone – not a nation. Or, you choose to do so simply to get your own point of view across. I am not sure? Apart from that, I have no argument with you – I completely agree with everything you said. Frankly, I would go further and restate my often stated belief that claims of superiority, often heard from Europeans, are subjecive at best and is more often the result of a feeling of humiliation and envy regarding the "new kid on the block" – the timeframe being the last century.. In my estimation it is equally ridiculous for either the U.S. or a united Europe to claim superiority in almost any field. I do not seek to pander to or persecute the U.S., or its citizens in my postings. I simply wish to express my own viewpoint be it popular or (this particular thread being a good example) unpopular; because, as a Limey living in México, I do see things with a different viewpoint and may possibly have something to add from an uncommon prospective. By and large, I think you should be strong and mature enough, individually and collectively, to withstand both my admiration and my criticisms. |
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Posted: 1/19/2002 8:31:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Oliver North is a true American Hero. Period. End of story. Anyone who thinks differently has simply bought into the liberal media's spin on anything having to do with the Reagan Presidency. Eric The(GetYourHistoryStraight)Hun[>]:)] |
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