Sick of hearing Mogadishu was a failure

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sick of hearing Mogadishu was a failure

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:04:55 AM EDT

I've heard this three times today on Fox News. They've reported that the Battle of Mogadishu was a failure. Anyone who knows anything about the battle, this is untrue. We were after a couple of Aidid's bubbas. We got them. Even though we had to release them later to get Durant back, our boys on the ground got the job done.

I find this reporting disrespectful.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:11:16 AM EDT

[#1]

My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed.

Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:13:17 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed.

Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.

View Quote

My point is, the overall operation in Somaila was a failure. The fight in Mog was a success for the US troops, but cost 18 lives.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:15:31 AM EDT

[#3]

Considering all the casualties, then the exchange of prisoners and the fact that no mission objectives(who knows what they we're?)achieved in Somalia you just have to call a spade a spade. Like it or not that expedition into Somalia was not only a complete failure but an embarassment to U.S. military and political leadership.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:18:58 AM EDT

[#4]

I just finished reading "BlackHawk Down" a week or so back. The estimate, on the conservative side, was ~500 dead Somalis, with over 1,000 wounded. The Rangers and Special Forces kicked some serious skinny a$$.

The only failure is our Government placing our troups in harms way for the U.N.

No surprise that the media doesn't see it that way.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:19:05 AM EDT

[#5]

Very true, the soldiers did their jobs, the politicians failed, then got cold feet when the going got tough. Americans are so sensitised to an american death, that the politicains feel they have to play into that. The fact is, our entire military is volunteer. These boys knew what they were getting into when they signed up, especially to be in a spec. ops unit.

I landed in the mog shortly after, as the armor support they should have had in the first place. I knew the risks, but then again, I volunteered to be there (in the army) in the first place.

The politicians failed the soldiers, not the other way around.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:28:57 AM EDT

[#6]

MarineGrunt,
in defense of FOX I believe there was no criticism of the individuals actually doing the fighting and dying.

I believe there is and should be much criticism of the (choke, gasp) leaders and the (gaskirr) planners.

Finally I find FOX reporting on "failure" to be just fine because we're going back and our folks are going to again be in harm's way and no chicken-schittt commander will dare deny anything needed for the successful completition of this mission.
-----------------------------------------------
To those who were in the air and on the ground and doing actual fighting my eternal gratitude and respect.
[beer]
-----------------------------------------------
To the "l's and "p's" above:
My eternal PHUCK YOU !

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:29:45 AM EDT

[#7]

OK, I think everyone is still missing the point. The [b]OVERALL MISSION IN SOMALIA[/b] was a failure. I'm talking about [b]THE BATTLE IN MOGADISHU[/b]. News is reporting it as failed. NOT. Winning the battle and the war are two different things!!!

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:47:28 AM EDT

[#8]

Can you expect anything else from the media? How many battles did we lose in Viet Nam?

Careful now where you get your data...

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:54:06 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed.

Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.

View Quote

My point is, the overall operation in Somaila was a failure. The fight in Mog was a success for the US troops, but cost 18 lives.

View Quote

Your right but to look at as Nam is a good ides.
Put it this way the people on Fox can tell there was something F*ed up about Somaila they just don't get that is was just the gov. putting guys in 1/2 a$$ed again.

Posted: 1/15/2002 10:56:36 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I just finished reading "BlackHawk Down" a week or so back. The estimate, on the conservative side, was ~500 dead Somalis, with over 1,000 wounded. The Rangers and Special Forces kicked some serious skinny a$$.

View Quote

With help from helicopters and vehicle mounted weapons.

Posted: 1/15/2002 11:10:09 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed.

Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.

View Quote

My point is, the overall operation in Somaila was a failure. The fight in Mog was a success for the US troops, but cost 18 lives.

View Quote

Your right but to look at as Nam is a good ides.
Put it this way the people on Fox can tell there was something F*ed up about Somaila they just don't get that is was just the gov. putting guys in 1/2 a$$ed again.

View Quote

You're right, but they were not talking about the Somalian Mission, they were talking about the fight in Mog.

Doesn't this bug anyone else???

Posted: 1/15/2002 11:19:20 AM EDT

[#12]

Has there ever been a time that our leaders did NOT act in a fashion contrary to the best interests of the public or our military? This is how you approach these kinds of topics.

Posted: 1/15/2002 11:29:48 AM EDT

[#13]

Doesn't this bug anyone else???

View Quote

Consider me bugged.

The fundamental flaw in the mission (the whole expedition, not just the battle) was that it was attempting to accomplish a very ambitious goal ("nation building") through very modest means (handing out food, disarming the clans, hunting down Aidid and company) with the expectation of minimal cost. Although the "Blackhawk Down" battle was the catalyst for America's withdrawal from Somalia, the war had really been lost from the start at the strategic level.

Posted: 1/15/2002 11:51:52 AM EDT

[#14]

I just wish Rush Limbaugh's television show was still on. I remember that back in May, 1993, well before the Oct. 'Black Hawk Down' battle, President Clinton 'marched' across the White House Lawn at the head of a military parade.

Rush used the clip over and over on his show, just as a mockery of Clinton at the head of a troop of real soldiers!

Anyway, at the makeshift podium, he announced that the humnaitarian mission had been accomplished spectacularly and even went on to give a nod to Bush, Sr., who sent our men there in the first place!

So why were our men still there months later?

'Cause Clinton and his best and brightest thought that 'nation building' wouldn't be a bad legacy!

Eric The(HeWas,Is,AndAlwaysWillBe,APOS!)Hun[>]:)]

Posted: 1/15/2002 12:09:43 PM EDT

[#15]

When the Marines were running the show Somalia was a sucess. Baidoa had been completly restored to order and the rest of the nation was following. When the Marines handed the mission over to the army, ( and Bush handed the Whitehouse to Clinton) it all fell apart.

Clinton and the Army fvcked up. If Bush and the Marines had remained in charge the ending would have been very different.

Posted: 1/15/2002 12:13:45 PM EDT

[#16]

You're shitting us, right. Then entire operations was a goat rope from day one. The mission (meals on wheels) was a complete joke that exposed all US forces (that includes Marines) to unnecessary risk with no option for proactive engagements.

Real Marines don't need you to troll for them.

Posted: 1/15/2002 12:16:54 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
'Cause Clinton and his best and brightest thought that 'nation building' wouldn't be a bad legacy!

View Quote

BINGO! It was always about Clinton's legacy, never about what's in our nation's and our military's best interests.

If you look at the numbers, we won the Battle of the Black Sea. We not only won, we kicked ass! We captured Aidid and then released him soon after. For what? 19 American lives wasn't worth it. The failure was the politics going on behind the scenes before, during, and after Oct 1993. I tend to agree with MarineGrunt. By the news media's logic, D-Day was a failure because we lost so many American lives. [rolleyes]

Posted: 1/15/2002 5:11:56 PM EDT

[#18]

Americans are just so sensitized to US casualties. Don't get me wrong, I pray for every one of our men who put themselves in harms way, but war leads to casualties. I guess it is a compliment to our forces that the public expects them to fight thousands and win without a single loss, but it's not very realistic. Still, 18 dead for 500 - 700 enemy killed is a pretty damned good average. I say our boys did us proud.

Posted: 1/15/2002 9:17:12 PM EDT

[#19]

Somalia wasn't a complete backfire. Aideed got himself wacked about 6 months later by a rival warlord. I kinda smell the CIA in this assasination, not planned by but encouraged to. All of those warlords have aggressive rivals waiting in the wings. Promise them that you'll get the authorities to look the other way and these once powerful people will drop like flies.

Posted: 1/16/2002 2:11:23 PM EDT

[#20]

For those who have not watched it, go to [url]www.cspan.org[/url] and look for Black Hawk Down on the search box on the left.

That is a panel discussion about the mission in Somalia and in particular about the operation on Oct. 3rd-4th.

Included in the panel are for example; Colonels Tom Matthews and Lee Van Arsdale, Mark Bowden, Ridley Scott, Jerry Bruckheimer etc..

Gives even a person who has not read the book nor knows anything about the operation a very good view on the operation.

Posted: 1/16/2002 2:15:06 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
You're shitting us, right. Then entire operations was a goat rope from day one.

View Quote

Really? What unit were you with? There were not that many of us there on "day one".

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sick of hearing Mogadishu was a failure

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