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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:10:45 PM EDT
How difficult would it be to build a shower with a recirculated\filtered system(heated)
Like for a camper or a mobile home at a secluded location(without a discharge or a septic tank) IOW, the water would be recycled, filtered, heated and reused WHILE you are taking the shower 
I'm thinking it would take at least three filters to get the water clean enough it doesn't need to be drinkable, just good enough to wash with OTOH, I might want to use it for washing dishes also keep in mind a 12v system will probably be used Wouldn't one micron be good enough? |
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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:13:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Have you ever seen shower water discharge
it is full of hair and dead skin along with dirt. Any filter would clog fast. I have had drains with rodent covers clog after just a few showers. You are whistling in the wind . edit you could maybe use some kind of settling tank and then take off the gray water on top and filter it but that would not be a fast operation as I think you are wanting |
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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:15:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Have you ever seen shower water discharge it is full of hair and dead skin along with dirt. Any filter would clog fast. I have had drains with rodent covers clog after just a few showers. You are whistling in the wind . Surely there are filters(kind of like a pre-filter)that would be able to reduce the initial "volume" of (larger)contaminates
(obviously they would need to be VERY easy to clean, since it would probably need to be done every day) |
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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:16:41 PM EDT
[#3]
sorry my edit was a little late
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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:17:52 PM EDT
[#4]
that's nasty
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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:18:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
sorry my edit was a little late No sweat, and thanks for the input
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Posted: 3/8/2009 5:19:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
that's nasty Depends on the filtration, doesn't it?
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Posted: 3/8/2009 7:40:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Why not store it, filter it, and use it to water the lawn instead. You can even have the rain drainoff go into the same system. I have seen GREEN houses that employ somthing like this.
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Posted: 3/8/2009 7:48:34 PM EDT
[#8]
You could probably use a centrifuge filter to get that done. I was meddling with them in making biodis.....ahem, filtered vegetable oil.
http://www.mtasales.com/CentrifugalFiltration/CentrifugalFiltration.htm |
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Posted: 3/8/2009 7:49:38 PM EDT
[#9]
NASA does it
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Posted: 3/8/2009 7:51:02 PM EDT
[#10]
ETA no point NM.
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Posted: 3/8/2009 8:08:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
You could probably use a centrifuge filter to get that done. I was meddling with them in making biodis.....ahem, filtered vegetable oil.
http://www.mtasales.com/CentrifugalFiltration/CentrifugalFiltration.htm Size, weight, expense, volume processed before mandatory stoppage of system for cleaning?
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Posted: 3/8/2009 8:09:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Why not store it, filter it, and use it to water the lawn instead. You can even have the rain drainoff go into the same system. I have seen GREEN houses that employ somthing like this. That's a really good idea, unfortunately it doesn't fit with either of the two applications that I have in mind
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Posted: 3/8/2009 8:11:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
NASA does it Yeah, but I don't need it clean enough to drink
I'll probably use a slightly different system to purify rainwater for drinking (and that one might also have to be used to wash the dishes\hands, etc) |
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Posted: 3/8/2009 8:12:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
ETA no point NM. I can't believe I missed this, I believe I checked this thread at a three minute interval outside of your posts How about at least giving me a hint?
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Posted: 3/9/2009 3:24:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Evening bump
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Posted: 3/19/2009 10:39:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Can't filter out the soap and other dissolve minerals. You can filter out hair and skin cells etc.
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Posted: 3/19/2009 10:45:00 PM EDT
[#17]
What about Urine? I pee in the shower all the time.
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Posted: 3/19/2009 10:46:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
What about Urine? I pee in the shower all the time. I'd just pee on a tree(before I took the shower)so I wouldn't have to worry about it "coming back to me"
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Posted: 3/19/2009 10:55:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Why? I can see grey water storage and treatment for non-contact use (irrigation, toilets) but even that would need a lot of processing. Forget filters, you want a settling tank with coagulant, then some method of seperation of the flocs from the water. That would get the soap out but not detergents (sodium laurel sulfate etc in shampoo). That can only be removed via bacterial action, combination of anaerobic and aerobic. A constructed wetland would be great, if you can get county approval. These systems can effectively treat effluents from a septic system in difficult soil conditions. But in such situations, a commercial anaerobic/aerobic system is more realistic. They rely on chlorine final treatment to reduce odors
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Posted: 3/19/2009 11:23:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Why? I can see grey water storage and treatment for non-contact use (irrigation, toilets) but even that would need a lot of processing. Forget filters, you want a settling tank with coagulant, then some method of seperation of the flocs from the water. That would get the soap out but not detergents (sodium laurel sulfate etc in shampoo). That can only be removed via bacterial action, combination of anaerobic and aerobic. A constructed wetland would be great, if you can get county approval. These systems can effectively treat effluents from a septic system in difficult soil conditions. But in such situations, a commercial anaerobic/aerobic system is more realistic. They rely on chlorine final treatment to reduce odors It's about time you showed up, I was about to page you with a thread title edit
How about if I use "ecologically friendly" soaps and shampoos? Is there no way to create an "on the fly" purification system? |
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Posted: 3/19/2009 11:26:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Unless your on the space station I'd say its cheaper to increase your water storage system. |
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Posted: 3/19/2009 11:33:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Unless your on the space station I'd say its cheaper to increase your water storage system. That is only possible with one of the two intended applications
(and, that is not the one that I am intending to develop first) |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 12:02:17 AM EDT
[#23]
You could buy a lot of moist towlettes for the money it would take.
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Posted: 3/20/2009 12:06:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
You could buy a lot of moist towlettes for the money it would take. Yeah, and I guess I didn't mention before that I would be willing to do a "sponge bath" before entering into the closed system, recirculated, hot water shower
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Posted: 3/20/2009 12:39:00 AM EDT
[#25]
NASA has it because they have millions of dollars to develop one.
Personally, I think large baby wipes would be most cost-effective. During oEF/OIF that is what the US military used, essentially large baby-wipes. |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 4:33:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Why? I can see grey water storage and treatment for non-contact use (irrigation, toilets) but even that would need a lot of processing. Forget filters, you want a settling tank with coagulant, then some method of seperation of the flocs from the water. That would get the soap out but not detergents (sodium laurel sulfate etc in shampoo). That can only be removed via bacterial action, combination of anaerobic and aerobic. A constructed wetland would be great, if you can get county approval. These systems can effectively treat effluents from a septic system in difficult soil conditions. But in such situations, a commercial anaerobic/aerobic system is more realistic. They rely on chlorine final treatment to reduce odors While not practical for recirculating the water, how about a solar still setup to concentrate the gunk in an output stream, and at least get some water back? |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 4:36:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have you ever seen shower water discharge it is full of hair and dead skin along with dirt. Any filter would clog fast. I have had drains with rodent covers clog after just a few showers. You are whistling in the wind . Surely there are filters(kind of like a pre-filter)that would be able to reduce the initial "volume" of (larger)contaminates
(obviously they would need to be VERY easy to clean, since it would probably need to be done every day) You'd have to have a series of screens before the filters, and they have to be cleaned pretty much every time you used it. You'd have to be careful of what type of soap/shampoo you used, and the water would be pretty foul after a few uses. NASA does it. They'd surely sell you a setup similar to the one on the ISS for a few hundred thou. 
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Posted: 3/20/2009 5:10:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Drill a well or buy a water trailer for occasional use. A dry well in most of Texas will handle gray water disposal easily, and a septic system can be small for your proposed use.
A couple of years ago in the DIY forum we discussed using ganged plastic 55 gallon drums for low cost septic treatment at a place in the desert, and the member already had a metric butt load of drums. The good percolation in the desert means that very short leach lines are needed. Your proposed idea requires a step that positively disinfects the water before use. |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 6:24:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Drill a well or buy a water trailer for occasional use. A dry well in most of Texas will handle gray water disposal easily, and a septic system can be small for your proposed use. A couple of years ago in the DIY forum we discussed using ganged plastic 55 gallon drums for low cost septic treatment at a place in the desert, and the member already had a metric butt load of drums. The good percolation in the desert means that very short leach lines are needed. Your proposed idea requires a step that positively disinfects the water before use. Maybe I could use chlorine tablets in part of the system like they use for swimming pools
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Posted: 3/20/2009 8:41:35 PM EDT
[#30]
actually the solar still might not be a bad idea.
IF you could heat the water fast enough and maintain a large enough heat source to it, you could boil a lot of water quickly and then condense it back for the "hot" water in your shower. This solves the disinfect and removal of the soap and such since it should have a higher boiling point. However I think there are a few draw backs as the water in the still will be very nasty and you would only be able to recover maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the water you used each time. Additionally, it would still make more sense to have a settling tank to get the big nasties out of the water first. The other choices are RO DI units, but again you need a settling tank and good filters prior to hitting the RO unit. Again you only get a 1 out of 4 recovery. But better than nothing. |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 9:16:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
How difficult would it be to build a shower with a recirculated\filtered system(heated) Like for a camper or a mobile home at a secluded location(without a discharge or a septic tank) IOW, the water would be recycled, filtered, heated and reused WHILE you are taking the shower
I'm thinking it would take at least three filters to get the water clean enough it doesn't need to be drinkable, just good enough to wash with OTOH, I might want to use it for washing dishes also keep in mind a 12v system will probably be used Wouldn't one micron be good enough? 1. That's nasty 2. It's probably not practical. If you have enough money to buy all the the equipment to filter it properly, then you have enough money to just expand your water supply. Build a Cistern. 3. If your water is that really limited, you should be taking sponge baths |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 11:01:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
3. If your water is that really limited, you should be taking sponge baths It's not about having limited water, it's about limiting water intake\discharge for multiple reasons and still getting to take a long hot shower, in many ways I prefer long hot showers to using a hot tub
(although, it is starting to sound like it would be easier to just go ahead and get a hot tub) |
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Posted: 3/20/2009 11:07:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
You could probably use a centrifuge filter to get that done. I was meddling with them in making biodis.....ahem, filtered vegetable oil.
http://www.mtasales.com/CentrifugalFiltration/CentrifugalFiltration.htm Here is one that I was considering for my workplace: http://www.nbsc.com/cepa.aspx The little benchtop one will run you about $40,000 (no i'm not kidding). Add $10,000 increments for the next larger sizes. eta hot link now |
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Posted: 3/28/2009 7:16:29 PM EDT
[#34]
We bought a 5gpm unit for 800 bucks if i remember correctly, and it was filtering down to 2 micron. it was about the size of a bowling ball.
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Posted: 3/28/2009 7:26:32 PM EDT
[#35]
This guy wants to set up a system in his Bug Out Vehicle so he can take an endless hot shower while the zombies eat everybody else. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
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Posted: 3/28/2009 9:17:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
This guy wants to set up a system in his Bug Out Vehicle so he can take an endless hot shower while the zombies eat everybody else. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Not endless, just looonnnggg
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Posted: 3/28/2009 9:21:47 PM EDT
[#37]
There has to be a better answer.
Carry more water. Shower less often. Use paper plates. |
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Posted: 3/28/2009 9:32:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
There has to be a better answer. Carry more water. Shower less often. Use paper plates. I'm gonna go bounce some ideas off a friend of mine, hopefully next week he should be able to help me determine flow rates\equipment availability\cost
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Posted: 3/28/2009 9:54:29 PM EDT
[#39]
The other choices are RO DI units, but again you need a settling tank and good filters prior to hitting the RO unit. Again you only get a 1 out of 4 recovery. But better than nothing.
for this type of application you are going to need carbon tank and mixed bed tanks to filter out everything. depending on usage (daily, weekly, gal used etc) that would last you about 3-6 weeks, before needing to repalce. real bulky to hump around. one of these http://www.cabelas.com/ssubcat-1/cat20097.shtml then through a water filtration system http://www.espwaterproducts.com/portable-water-filtration.htm baby wipes have been mentioned. try them and pack 1-2 bottles of witch hazel. that will decrease external body temp combined with the baby wipes to clean. how often do you think you'll need to shower? . |
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Posted: 3/28/2009 10:15:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
[span style='text-decoration: underline;'] how often do you think you'll need to shower? . It could vary from five times a week(max) to once a month, or less
probably somewhere between twice a week to twice a month |
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