[ARCHIVED THREAD] - They're talking about another stimulus package in the range of $300b to $700b (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:26:40 PM EDT

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D94HKSIG1.htm

I tell you what. If this passes and its like the last one where I do not qualify and the "rebates" are actually my tax dollars getting redistributed to everyone else, Atlas is going to fucking shrug.

I'll stop paying both my mortgages and I'm going to cut my practice down to two days a week –– just enough to pay the bills. Fuck this shit.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:30:46 PM EDT

[#1]

the rebate was just an advance of your tax return ,when tax time comes you have to claim if you got(less money back) or didn't(tax credit)

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:32:54 PM EDT

[#2]

The more they do this kind of stuff, the more people are going to stop paying taxes. Or at least pay as little as they think they can get away with.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:32:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
the rebate was just an advance of your tax return ,when tax time comes you have to claim if you got(less money back) or didn't(tax credit)

No, it wasn't. If you were below the income cut off for the rebate, even if your witholding was spot on so that you didn't overpay (e.g., you didn't have any refund coming), the rebate came to you. It was pure wealth redistribution. People received the "rebate" who did not even have any tax liability much less overpay their taxes.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:33:31 PM EDT

[#4]

The election's over!!

Where's my free shit!!!

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:34:59 PM EDT

[#5]

I didn't get a rebate, and I filed taxes last year.

Was not over the cutoff.

At the time they announced the $600 check thing, I was going to cash it and leave the cash in an envelope on the door of one of my neighbors - I could tell they needed it more than I did, but they work really hard and have at least 1 autistic kid - but thats moot now.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:35:51 PM EDT

[#6]

Hmm, it doesn't sound like they want to give people money like last time, they want to give cities and county's money to fix roads and bridges, and cut taxes on different types of companies....

Am I reading this correctly??

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:36:38 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the rebate was just an advance of your tax return ,when tax time comes you have to claim if you got(less money back) or didn't(tax credit)

No, it wasn't. If you were below the income cut off for the rebate, even if your witholding was spot on so that you didn't overpay (e.g., you didn't have any refund coming), the rebate came to you. It was pure wealth redistribution. People received the "rebate" who did not even have any tax liability much less overpay their taxes.

Gonzo is right. There was speculation before the last "stimulus" package that it was just an advance on your tax return (like it was in 2000), but that turned out not to be the case in the one earlier this year.

It was pure wealth redistribution.

This new plan will do nothing to help the economy long term. Short term pump at the expense of more pain longer term.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:36:46 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Hmm, it doesn't sound like they want to give people money like last time, they want to give cities and county's money to fix roads and bridges, and cut taxes on different types of companies....

Am I reading this correctly??

The draft legislation that's getting passed around does a little bit of both.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:39:27 PM EDT

[#9]

.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:46:25 PM EDT

[#10]

Nevermind, me whining looks bad

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:47:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Good, Uncle Sugar can fucking pay off for once.

The way they have fucked pretty much everything up over the last few months and killed the economy, well, fuck 'em, they owe me.

maybe they should call it social security, at least that way everyone under 50 will at least get something out of all the fucking money they have paid in (that they will never see a dime of)

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:51:40 PM EDT

[#12]

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:54:37 PM EDT

[#13]

I made 14k last year part time as single with no dependents. I paid 18% to the guv.

I always thought if I made so little it'd get tax free basically. guess not.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:56:35 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Good, Uncle Sugar can fucking pay off for once.

The way they have fucked pretty much everything up over the last few months and killed the economy, well, fuck 'em, they owe me.

maybe they should call it social security, at least that way everyone under 50 will at least get something out of all the fucking money they have paid in (that they will never see a dime of)

You're dreaming if you think anyone under 40 is going to see a dime of social security.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:56:37 PM EDT

[#15]

I kinda got the inside scoop from a H&R block tax lady person thing. They had a cooperate meeting over next years taxes, etc, and they were told $1350 to anyone with a SS number. Yes that does include bums on the street.

Posted: 11/19/2008 12:59:01 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I kinda got the inside scoop from a H&R block tax lady person thing. They had a cooperate meeting over next years taxes, etc, and they were told $1350 to anyone with a SS number. Yes that does include bums on the street.

Unless you're above the income cut off. I.e., the people who pay 80+% of the taxes in the first place. In which case you get jack shit. The government steals your work-sweat and gives it to someone else.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:00:01 PM EDT

[#17]

More $ for the new roof fund. Sorry if that's not according to plan.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:01:56 PM EDT

[#18]

Jesus, it will never end.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:03:19 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:Good, Uncle Sugar can fucking pay off for once.

...except it's really the people who pay tax who are paying...not Uncle Sugar.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:04:02 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D94HKSIG1.htm

I tell you what. If this passes and its like the last one where I do not qualify and the "rebates" are actually my tax dollars getting redistributed to everyone else, Atlas is going to fucking shrug.

I'll stop paying both my mortgages and I'm going to cut my practice down to two days a week –– just enough to pay the bills. Fuck this shit.

Seriously, I live pretty plainly. I buy a few guns a year, some rounds of golf, but that's it. No CC debt, months away from only having a mortgage payment.......I put 10% on my house and buy a house for nearly half of what the bank said I was qualified for, yet those who have been irresponsible get the rewards. Fuck this shit.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:05:21 PM EDT

[#21]

The market liked that news.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:06:10 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I kinda got the inside scoop from a H&R block tax lady person thing. They had a cooperate meeting over next years taxes, etc, and they were told $1350 to anyone with a SS number. Yes that does include bums on the street.

Unless you're above the income cut off. I.e., the people who pay 80+% of the taxes in the first place. In which case you get jack shit. The government steals your work-sweat and gives it to someone else.

You seem surprised?

ETA: You may want to hibernate for the next 4 years

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:06:19 PM EDT

[#23]

What, $5 TRILLION is still not enough!??

http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/11/12/paulson-bernanke-fed-biz-wall-cx_lm_1112bailout.html

For all the fury over Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's $700 billion emergency economic relief fund, it seems downright puny when compared to the running total of the government's response to the credit crisis.

According to CreditSights, a research firm in New York and London,the U.S. government has put itself on the hook for some $5 trillion, so far, in an attempt to arrest a collapse of the financial system.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:06:35 PM EDT

[#24]

Well. I think I will have to use this money to finally get my AK parts kits built, and help stimulate the economy by doing so. :D

And that 700 billion won't help, when the companies AREN'T loaning money and hoarding all the cash like they are doing now.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:06:59 PM EDT

[#25]

Dumbasses.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:07:33 PM EDT

[#26]

I'll buy a camaro in the spring when they come out...if the US is still around by then

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:11:09 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:Good, Uncle Sugar can fucking pay off for once.

...except it's really the people who pay tax who are paying...not Uncle Sugar.

We're WAY beyond the point where tax revenues have anything to do with outlays, this is pure debt at best, and outright monetization is right around the corner.

Tax revenues are going to fall off a cliff in the near future...

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:11:27 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I'll buy a camaro in the spring when they come out...if the US is still around by then

I'd rather stock up on supplies I'm going to need to make it through this nonsense. Hopefully we can avoid civil war. I know that Dave_A will be around to say it wont happen, but with the behavior of states like Montana and Oklahoma and with what a lot of people are voicing it's sure seeming to be right the opposite. With the imminent loss of constitutional rights under Obama and the near collapse of our currency and economy, people will be left with almost nothing at all except the clothes on their back. No voice and running into a police/military road block every ten blocks and curfew left and right. Take a look at argentina's 1990s economic depression, combine that with cultural conflict like we have in the US and the excessive political instability we have here. Also take into consideration that, unlike Argentina, people here are very used to their civil liberties and individual rights. I will be very surprised if this country is still around in 2 years. I don't think that'd be much of a good thing either though because it would be testimony as to how complacent and weak people have become in that they refuse to do anything when they are being excessively abused by a government that was originally supposed to be representative of them to begin with. I guess it's Catch-22 any way you play it.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:13:27 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
What, $5 TRILLION is still not enough!??

http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/11/12/paulson-bernanke-fed-biz-wall-cx_lm_1112bailout.html

For all the fury over Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's $700 billion emergency economic relief fund, it seems downright puny when compared to the running total of the government's response to the credit crisis.

According to CreditSights, a research firm in New York and London,the U.S. government has put itself on the hook for some $5 trillion, so far, in an attempt to arrest a collapse of the financial system.

Reminds me of a friend who was a decent (but not REALLY good) card player. He went to Vegas and it broke him. He kept borrowing and borrowing until he was taking Guido money, all to make another bet.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:14:07 PM EDT

[#30]

Fuck it, we'll just print more money!!! Yay hyperinflation!!

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:15:55 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'll buy a camaro in the spring when they come out...if the US is still around by then

I'd rather stock up on supplies I'm going to need to make it through this nonsense. Hopefully we can avoid civil war. I know that Dave_A will be around to say it wont happen, but with the behavior of states like Montana and Oklahoma and with what a lot of people are voicing it's sure seeming to be right the opposite. With the imminent loss of constitutional rights under Obama and the near collapse of our currency and economy, people will be left with almost nothing at all except the clothes on their back. No voice and running into a police/military road block every ten blocks and curfew left and right. Take a look at argentina's 1990s economic depression, combine that with cultural conflict like we have in the US and the excessive political instability we have here. Also take into consideration that, unlike Argentina, people here are very used to their civil liberties and individual rights. I will be very surprised if this country is still around in 2 years. I don't think that'd be much of a good thing either though because it would be testimony as to how complacent and weak people have become in that they refuse to do anything when they are being excessively abused by a government that was originally supposed to be representative of them to begin with. I guess it's Catch-22 any way you play it.

Hey...who cares what this Dave_A says. He certainly is no genius economist. Neither was Greenspan who helped us get here.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:16:29 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Fuck it, we'll just print more money!!! Yay hyperinflation!!

There was an article I read, some where, about how people are scrounging up money to buy gold and silver coins and that demand for them is up, but yet the price of gold and silver hasn't reflected this increase in demand.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:18:21 PM EDT

[#33]

With my last rebate I created a new job in my company. I hired an electrical engineer with a managing background to start up a new product division. Then I fired him two days later when the rebate money ran out.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:18:58 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:We're WAY beyond the point where tax revenues have anything to do with outlays, this is pure debt at best, and outright monetization is right around the corner.

Tax revenues are going to fall off a cliff in the near future...

That's all fine and dandy, but some of us WILL see in increase in tax liability due to the increases in monetary outlay. That's a fact.

Will it cover the additional expenses, of course not, we can't even keep up with Social Security!!

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:20:04 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D94HKSIG1.htm

I tell you what. If this passes and its like the last one where I do not qualify and the "rebates" are actually my tax dollars getting redistributed to everyone else, Atlas is going to fucking shrug.

I'll stop paying both my mortgages and I'm going to cut my practice down to two days a week –– just enough to pay the bills. Fuck this shit.

Yeah, that'll teach em! Hope you don't care about your properties too much because it doesn't seem like big brother gives a fuck about helping bail US out...

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:23:25 PM EDT

[#36]

future taxes being spent at a rapid clip

how damn far ahead are they now?

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:24:58 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:We're WAY beyond the point where tax revenues have anything to do with outlays, this is pure debt at best, and outright monetization is right around the corner.

Tax revenues are going to fall off a cliff in the near future...

That's all fine and dandy, but some of us WILL see in increase in tax liability due to the increases in monetary outlay. That's a fact.

Will it cover the additional expenses, of course not, we can't even keep up with Social Security!!

I hear you, it's just getting harder and harder to have a rational discussion or find rational solutions the farther down the rabbit hole we go, you know?

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:26:59 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the rebate was just an advance of your tax return ,when tax time comes you have to claim if you got(less money back) or didn't(tax credit)

No, it wasn't. If you were below the income cut off for the rebate, even if your witholding was spot on so that you didn't overpay (e.g., you didn't have any refund coming), the rebate came to you. It was pure wealth redistribution. People received the "rebate" who did not even have any tax liability much less overpay their taxes.

Really?

Do you have facts to back up you statement?

I heard a $300 number being thrown around back them, is that the "limit" you are talking about?

I was busy last winter and spring writing a thesis so I didn't really have time to pay attention to all that BS.

Last year as a student (after all the deductions for tuition and whatnot) I had to pay about $303.78 in taxes (I had no with holdings). Three months later I received a check for $303.78. I didn't get the $600 everyone was talking about.

To me it wasn't "wealth redistribution" in the sense that they did not take money from those who made more and give it to me, they just made me pay less (aka, 0).

And yes, I know it wasn't fair because the high income earners didn't get it, and in that sense redistributive.

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:38:52 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I didn't get a rebate, and I filed taxes last year.

Was not over the cutoff.

At the time they announced the $600 check thing, I was going to cash it and leave the cash in an envelope on the door of one of my neighbors - I could tell they needed it more than I did, but they work really hard and have at least 1 autistic kid - but thats moot now.

You are fucking awesome!! See, I have no problem redistributing my wealth, if I get to pick who it goes to..

87GN-You are a hell of a man..

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:42:01 PM EDT

[#40]

WTF is happening to America?

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:46:42 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:And yes, I know it wasn't fair because the high income earners didn't get it, and in that sense redistributive.

This is it in a nutshell. Combined income over $150,000 and you got nothing, not sure what if the single cutoff was the same or not.

At your claimed level you should have gotten $600 IIRC...

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:48:26 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck it, we'll just print more money!!! Yay hyperinflation!!

There was an article I read, some where, about how people are scrounging up money to buy gold and silver coins and that demand for them is up, but yet the price of gold and silver hasn't reflected this increase in demand.

There is a high demand for dollars right now, thus the dollar of the value has increased. The fools who point to a decline in the price of precious metals, or relatively flat prices for them, are just that.

The Fed will clusterfuck anything it touches, history is your proof. Look for them to put more money into the system as a means of "fixing" things.

Anyone remember when Russia fell? Remember seeing video of people with wheelbarrows full of rubles that wouldn't buy anything? That's where we are headed if the Fed doesn't quit fucking with things.

Posted: 11/19/2008 2:09:02 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:And yes, I know it wasn't fair because the high income earners didn't get it, and in that sense redistributive.

This is it in a nutshell. Combined income over $150,000 and you got nothing, not sure what if the single cutoff was the same or not.

At your claimed level you should have gotten $600 IIRC...

So you're telling me the IRS FOOKED up?

I was under the impression back then that your rebate couldn't be more than your tax liability?

Posted: 11/19/2008 2:25:58 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
The election's over!!

Where's my free shit!!!

Woot!

The prophesy has come true!

Posted: 11/19/2008 2:26:36 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
The more they do this kind of stuff, the more people are going to stop paying taxes. Or at least pay as little as they think they can get away with.

I stopped with the bailout.

Posted: 11/19/2008 2:33:35 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck it, we'll just print more money!!! Yay hyperinflation!!

There was an article I read, some where, about how people are scrounging up money to buy gold and silver coins and that demand for them is up, but yet the price of gold and silver hasn't reflected this increase in demand.

Because COMEX is heavily manipulated and doesn't have the actual gold to fill all the orders that are held on paper.

Posted: 11/19/2008 2:43:43 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

There is a high demand for dollars right now, thus the dollar of the value has increased. The fools who point to a decline in the price of precious metals, or relatively flat prices for them, are just that.

The Fed will clusterfuck anything it touches, history is your proof. Look for them to put more money into the system as a means of "fixing" things.

Anyone remember when Russia fell? Remember seeing video of people with wheelbarrows full of rubles that wouldn't buy anything? That's where we are headed if the Fed doesn't quit fucking with things.

That's exactly what I am thinking. Even though we are experiencing massive deflation, the printing of all of this money may result in hyperinflation, and some people are preparing for such.