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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:26:42 AM EDT
[#1]
That's a silly website.
I doubt that those words came from either of them. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:33:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Read the Federalist Papers, the founding fathers were most definitely anti-semetic. You have to remember, EVERYONE was anti-semetic until the holocaust sobered most governments that fought in the war. Even then, it was really just pushed under the surface.
I don't like the Jewish influence in this country as much as the next guy but my attitudes are much more mild than my forefathers. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:34:38 AM EDT
[#3]
The founders where not anti-semitic just 1/2 of the people in here[;)]
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:37:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Well, I don't trust anything that they have to say.
But I doubt that the "quotes", if said were referring to the Jewish people. Probably talking about British aristocrats, or Deomcratic liberals. [smoke] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:38:27 AM EDT
[#5]
[url]http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.html[/url] [>]:)]
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:39:56 AM EDT
[#6]
The only place either of these "sources" exist, online, is when discussing these specific quotes.
AND, always in an anti-semitic context. The sources are made up. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:43:13 AM EDT
[#7]
[url]http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/bigotry.html[/url] [>]:)]
From the 'Touro Letter' of 1790 by G. Washington: [b]The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.[/b] Washington’s concluding paragraph perfectly expresses the ideal relationship among the government, its individual citizens and religious groups: [b]May the Children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.[/b] Washington closed with an invocation: “May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy.” Source: American Jewish Historical Society. Eric The(SoWhatDoYouThink?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:47:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Radio Islam has many quotes by Louis Farrakhan, which I believe are all true.
[url]http://abbc.com/historia/farakhan.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#9]
When posting an internet source for a quote like that, ask where THEY got it. More so than print media, the internet tends to spread information horizontally faster, with even less checking of validity.
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:51:55 AM EDT
[#10]
I would be very eary of anything on that site. The major financier and spy for Washington was a Jew from NY, He lost everything because oof the war, He might have been the foirst Treasuer of the U.S. Eric, are you familiar with that?
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Posted: 12/17/2001 9:53:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Read Geo. Washington's letter to Touro Synagogue, the first Jewish house of worship in the US: [url]http://www.tncrimlaw.com/civil_bible/hebrew_congregation.htm[/url]
Doesn't seem very anti-Semitic to me. P.S. I've seen the original. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 10:02:21 AM EDT
[#12]
The Talmud: documented and exposed
By New Jork Times religion reporter, Ari Goldman I just went to that site....if it wasn't so scary, it would be soooooooooo funny! So how many of you have been to New Jork? I noticed that they were taking as proven gospel things as the Protocol of Zion. That has been proven to be a forgery. I do admit that I am taken aback by the fact htat jews own America. I am being mistreated by my people. I demand more!!!! |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 10:08:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Benjamin Franklin supplied money for the building of the first synagogue in America, so I don't think that it's very credible to state that he was an anti-Semite.
This came from an Islamic orginization. Muslims are known for lying to support Islam, killing to support Islam, dying to support Islam, and remaining ignorant to support Islam. I never believe anything any Muslim says until I can independently verify the veracity of his/her statements. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 10:19:45 AM EDT
[#14]
I know what I'm going to say isn't very bright but many of the founding fathers were anti-semetic.
After all they were men of "their time." This country was founded on religious principles - Christian religious principles. Now please don't go after me it was that silly old kite flyer Ben Franklin that I'm paraphrasing. _____________________________________________ I'm damn tired of Jews with American citizenships that would disarm every American and take every weapon to Israel. I'm damn tired of the Schumer's, the Feinstein's, etc., that are two-ounce doves in the U.S. and when they cross the border into Israel they want an F-16 under one arm and an M-16 under the other. Does this make me anti-semetic ?? I really, really hope not. But if it does, phuck it. [uzi] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 10:22:17 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Read the Federalist Papers, the founding fathers were most definitely anti-semetic. You're the first one to lend any credence to these quotes. Can you give an example of anti-semitism in the Federalist Papers? |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 12:18:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Its been a long time since taking American History in college. However, I do remember an interesting little quote, "...all men are created equal". Yet these men owned slaves and, Thomas Jefferson especially, enjoyed sexual pleasures from them. I don't know if they were anti-semetic, but it would not suprise me.
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Posted: 12/17/2001 12:28:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Ah yes, the hate America first crowd surfaces again. Nothing we've ever been or done could ever possibly be any good. All we've ever been and all those who've gone before us were evil hate-mongers. Every founding father was evil in his heart and every evil claim against them is instantly believable.
Foo. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 12:37:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Read the Federalist Papers, the founding fathers were most definitely anti-semetic. You're the first one to lend any credence to these quotes. Can you give an example of anti-semitism in the Federalist Papers? I cannot point out the specifics any longer. It's been a few years since I last studied them in a Judeo-Christian theology class of all places in college. [url]http://www.subguns.com/federalist/[/url] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:06:25 PM EDT
[#19]
I can't believe the BS I'm reading in this thread- first of all, it's not "Anti-semetic", it's ANTI-SEM_I_TIC.....
Secondly, to apply our twenty-first cent. views about prejudices to people two-plus centuries ago is a waste of time. We have forgot many of the things they experienced and thought, and they didn't have the experiences and lives we do. The few Jews in America HELPED the fledgling Patriot cause- they stood to lose much at the hands of the Crown, should Washington have ultimately lost. Anti-Semitic? Do you mean anti-people of certain racial and ethnic backgrounds from the Middle East, such as, but not limited to, Arabs, Jews, Bedouins, Circassians, Assyrians, Nubians, Egyptians, and Yemenis? Define your terms more closely, people. Lastly, if our Founding Fathers (a Warren G Harding-ism, BTW) were anti-anyone, it was anti-Catholic, esp. in New England and in the Mid-Atlantic States. The Quebec Act guaranteed that the Crown would preserve the rights, culture, language and religion of the Catholic French Canadians. In Puritan-descended New England, the Pope was considered a despot worse than the King of England, and many new Englanders had lined up in the French and Indian War to fight against the French, no matter what their private grumblings might have been towards the Crown. Guy Fawkes Day, Nov.5th, had been observed in New England fervently, until the Catholic French gave military aid to the Continentals. In fact, the celebrations were banned as an anti-Catholic festival in Boston once French troops and sailors entered New England, for fear of insulting and losing French aid. (The traditions were carried over into Hallowe'en, actually). Perhaps we should avoid taking what we read on the Internet AKA the Misinformation Highway (invented by Algore, remember?)as gospel (pun intended) and do some serious fact-checking.... |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:15:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Post from SliPkNoT -
Yet these men owned slaves and, Thomas Jefferson especially, enjoyed sexual pleasures from them. If he did, then he no longer deserves to have a place in the Pantheon of America's Founding Fathers! I simply don't believe that he had any children by Sally Hemmings. If you have [b]conclusive[/b] evidence that he did, then let me know. BTW, before you get excited, I'm very much aware of the DNA [b]statistical[/b] evidence recently revealed, but that doesn't indicate anything mmore than that he, among about 10 other men, all residing within 25 miles of Monticello, [b]could[/b] have been the father of Miss Sally's offspring. See, for example:[url]http://www.stats.org/newsletters/9811/monticello.htm[/url] Eric The(WhyDidn'tMostBlacksBelieveTheO.J.-DNAEvidence?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:24:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Eric The(WhyDidn'tMostBlacksBelieveTheO.J.-DNAEvidence?)Hun[>]:)][/quote _______________________________________________ Most whites and blacks that received their news from ABC, CBS and NBC - collectively the evening news - believed Simpson should be found "guilty." Most whites and blacks who actually watched the trial believed Simpson should be found "Not Guilty". I watched the trial. The prosecution was too busy with "porking" each other to really prepare for the trial. Sorry, real sorry prosecutors lost that case. (No One found Simpson "Innocent.") |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:33:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Lord, I didn't watch anything but Court TV's coverage of the Simpson Murder Trial.
I'm white, but I thought that the Prosecutors, and most importantly the evidence adduced, proved the case against OJ beyond a reasonable doubt. I can't think of one piece of exculpatory evidence that was presented on OJ's behalf. Can you? I can't imagine that simply by watching network coverage of the trial 'most whites' would regard Simpson as not being proven guilty of the crime. But if there are polls of such things... Eric The(Well,HeCertainly'Acted'Guilty!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:36:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Come, Come! OJ will catch the REAL killer(s?) on one of his golf trips and that will be the end of it. You'll see!
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:48:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Interesting! According to last nights South Park episode, the "real" killer is a mysterious Puerto Rican who is also responsible for the disappearance of Chaundra Leavy and Jean Bine Ramsey...at least thats what Condit, OJ, and the Ramseys say!
BTW, the animation on Condit was hilarious! Always wearing that cheesey grin! |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:52:13 PM EDT
[#25]
That proves it! James Earl Ray mentioned a shadowy, sinister character by the name of "Raoul". Coincidence??? I THINK NOT!!!
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Posted: 12/17/2001 1:56:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I can't think of one piece of exculpatory evidence that was presented on OJ's behalf. Can you? Eric The(Well,HeCertainly'Acted'Guilty!)Hun[>]:)] Although not presented on OJ's behalf, the ill-fitting glove incident was not a high point in the prosecution's case. Of course, this was completely overshadowed by the DNA evidence, IMHO. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#27]
The glove was only 'ill-fitting' because the Prosecutors insisted that OJ wear a clear latex gloves on his hands while he attempted to put on the leather gloves held in evidence.
When OJ put the clear latex gloves on, he did not push his fingers all the way into the glove, leaving a 'webbing effect' between his fingers that prevented the leather gloves from ever being able to be fitted onto his hands. Does anyone doubt they were OJ's gloves, I mean besides those folks residing near the intersection of Florence and Normandie in South Central Los Angeles? The simple-minded, rutting weasels, who acted as prosecutors in this case were idiots for allowing OJ to 'give evidence' which is what the demonstration actually amounted to under the circumstances, without being sworn and cross-examined! The 'dream team' must have thought they died and went to heaven when the prosecutors suggested the demonstration! Of course, this even assumes that the jury would have returned a 'guilty' verdict if OJ had broken down and wept bitterly over 'killing the bitch' in their presence! Eric The( |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 4:30:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Its been a long time since taking American History in college. However, I do remember an interesting little quote, "...all men are created equal". Yet these men owned slaves and, Thomas Jefferson especially, enjoyed sexual pleasures from them. I don't know if they were anti-semetic, but it would not suprise me. I am so sick of this "founding fathers were full of crap" rhetoric. The plain truth to anyone who even tries to study it, is that Jefferson was VERY anti-slave. To use the fact that he owned slaves as evidence of hypocrasy is idiotic. He was a landowner and farmer. Are you saying he should have freed his slaves and started paying them hourly wages? What wage would you have suggested? There is no eveidence that he treated his slaves as subhuman. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary. Heck, whichever side if the Sally Hemings debate you fall under, few would argue that he simply used her for "sexual pleasures" - the belief is he was very much in love with her. In fact, far beyond just the phrase "all men are created equal," his original draft of the Declaration of Independence included a scathing indictment on the slave trade. It was later edited out to appease the slavery supporters. This was early foreshadowing of the issue that would leater lead to our civil war. Adam |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 5:35:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Jefferson was anti-slavery, but he was also a realist. He very badly wanted to pass legislation that would have gradually freed the slaves, starting with the newborn children, but events in Haiti prevented this from happening.
There was an INCREDIBLY bloody slave rebellion on Haiti that lasted for years and caused thousands of deaths, many of them civilians. This spooked the Southern states, who desperately wanted to avoid such a thing happening there, and made it politically impossible for Jefferson to bring about an end to slavery. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 5:45:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Many sects at the time taught that the Jews murdered Christ, denying that Jesus was a Jew. So some of the FFs were, there is little doubt of that. But not even a majority, or they would not have extended the 1st Amendment so far as to permit Jews religious freedom.
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Posted: 12/17/2001 5:48:49 PM EDT
[#31]
I don't know of anything Washington has said but I remember reading in a book about Ben Frankling making an anti semetic speech. I really don't think the founding fathers cared about their religious practices, but their business practices which only favor other jewish owned businesses. Jewish people tend to help each other out in business as if they are at war against non jews. I do quite a bit of business on the internet and it is shocking how much power Jewish people have in internet businesses considering there aren't that many Jews in the U.S.
Hope I dont sound like I hate jews or anything. But with their business practices they could easily control this entire country in the next century. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 6:01:13 PM EDT
[#32]
I gotta tell ya, I get a bit tired at times of hearing "The Founding Fathers were this, the Founding Fathers were that..."
Who cares? They were humans, all of them, products of their time with all the prejudices and problems that entailed. BUT, their genius, their immortal wisdom, was to put into place a system that could COUNTER the prejudices of the majority with the rule of law. Sure, it hasn't worked perfectly, but it has allowed us to progress beyond what anyone back then would have thought possible. I don't honestly care about their various human foibles...everyone has foibles. Not many people overcome them with such incredible forethought. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 6:03:23 PM EDT
[#33]
The language in both the Franklin and Washington posts seems too new to have been written 200 years ago don't thee know?
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Posted: 12/17/2001 8:01:50 PM EDT
[#34]
I support the Founding Fathers, right or wrong. Heard lots of sense in this thread, some nonsense, too.
Were they anti(fill in the blank)? Dunno, don't much care. Seems like there's an entire cottage industry devoted to sullying reputations of the great men who gave us our constitution and forms of government. Don't run down my ancestors and expect me to go along with it! Slandering this country's founders is a tactic of cultural Marxism designed to undermine support for our country. It everywhere tries to de-legitimize and deconstruct systems of traditional values and replace them with collectivist (Marxist) goals and objectives. The charge of anti-Semitism is claimed so often(falsely), as to devalue itself even when it might have merit. As a sidenote, it now bugs the hell out of me that American Jews (including Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Waxman, Leiberman Albright, Specter, et al.) are trying to completely disarm American citizens, while their counterparts in Israel stroll about carrying full-auto everything with underbarrel grenade launchers, and sundry pistols, all for the exclusive purpose of shooting people! Something is hypocritical and out-of-whack. Either disarm Israeli Jews, or gimme full-auto in America. Now that we have full blown middle-eastern terrorism *here*, maybe American Jewish politicians will see that we are as heavily armed as Israeli schoolteachers. |
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Posted: 12/17/2001 8:11:17 PM EDT
[#35]
LOL, you got this info from a place called RADIO ISLAM?
If the founding fathers were anti-semitic, how about these folks that posted this info? [img]http://abbc.com/islam/roligt/big/rislam82.gif[/img] Presumably, these folks want us to think that the founding fathers were spot-on about the threat of Jews. Whatever. When they stop apologizing for their nutcase believers ramming jets into our cities, maybe I will listen to Muslims. |
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Posted: 12/18/2001 6:25:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Ah yes, the hate America first crowd surfaces again. Nothing we've ever been or done could ever possibly be any good. All we've ever been and all those who've gone before us were evil hate-mongers. Every founding father was evil in his heart and every evil claim against them is instantly believable. Foo. I think my post gave you the wrong impression. I think these men were truly ahead of their time - they were enlightened individuals who had the balls to defy the British and create the greatest nation in history. I'm the farthest thing from anti-founding father there is (if I were that type, why the hell would I be a member here?), but its okay to take off the rose colored glasses. These were not the picture perfect, white powdery faced, crap smelled like roses people our elementary school teachers taught us. They were real people each with his own demons and sins, and although this should NOT diminish their great contributions to this country, it is perfectly right and not at all un-American to acknowledge it. Our country, right or wrong... |
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Posted: 12/18/2001 9:51:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Erasmus;
He's Dead but you forgot Metzenbaum. Theres plenty of Jews who DONT want you disarmed. Aaron Zelman comes readily to mind. He even somewhat agrees with your point - [url]http://www.jpfo.org/alert20010903.htm[/url] But there are also plenty of Catholic Liberation Theologists and Neo Pacifists that do. How can they support all those IRA folk with guns? I get to hang out with Nuns on occasion and they all preach gun control (but most of them are socialists anyway, Id expect no less). Religion has little basis in a discussion on pro/anti RKBA. But I go along with your sentiment Erasmus. The reason Americans go along with gun control is they feel safe. The difference between a pro and an anti? An assault - read Paxton Quigly. The "Founding Fathers" did something the rest of the world is still trying to emulate. They did away with a king. They decentralized power. They enshrined the rights we posess as the cornerstone of government. They put in place a system, although somewhat perverted, that is still the basis for the power, freedoms and liberties we enjoy. They thought they had put into place a nearly foolproof system - but we are more foolish than they'd dare fear. If we loose this gift, the fault is ours. One way to undermine their gift? Marginalize it and them. Dead on Erasmus. Luck Alac Im less worried about G. Washington being an anti semite than I am about T. Jefferson being an atheist. Edited to say Im highly offended by the Puerto Rican slur earlier in the thread. Replace it with "Albanian" and Im fine. |
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Posted: 12/18/2001 11:31:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Its been a long time since taking American History in college. However, I do remember an interesting little quote, "...all men are created equal". an oft-misinterpreted quote, as evidenced here. the phrase "all men are created equal" refers only to their equality [b]under the law[/b]. that no single man or group of men are above the law; conversely, that no single man or group of men can be beaten down by it. it also means that those men in government are also equal in the eyes of the law to the citizens of the state. basically: one law applies to ALL men, period. we don't have one set of laws for this group and one set of laws for that group. i'm sure that the FF were the first to admit that some groups were "superior" to others. but that superiority did not do them any favors in the eyes of the law. |
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Posted: 12/18/2001 11:37:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Im less worried about G. Washington being an anti semite than I am about T. Jefferson being an atheist. I'm not worried about either, as Washington and Jefferson made sure that me being an atheist or someone else being an antisemite wouldn't tread on your rights to be a pro-semite believer. |
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Posted: 12/18/2001 5:52:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Im less worried about G. Washington being an anti semite than I am about T. Jefferson being an atheist. I'm not worried about either, as Washington and Jefferson made sure that me being an atheist or someone else being an antisemite wouldn't tread on your rights to be a pro-semite believer. Your sentiment is exactly right. Though your characterization of me is off the mark. Not sure where you beleive I was concerned my rights were being tread upon. Doubt my friends would recognize the pro-semite believer in me either. But otherwise I'd agree with your assesment. Luck Alac I forget this is a poor forum for histories; if you'd been aware of my previous treatment of TJ you'd realize his personal religious beliefs bother me not at all. |
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Posted: 12/18/2001 6:16:12 PM EDT
[#41]
I was not trying to characterize you personally as a pro-Semite believer, I was merely using the editorial "you" to make the point.
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