Aside from ARs being semi-auto, and ignoring any possible inherent flaws in M4/AR-15 design, how comfortable would you feel carrying a typical (Colt, Stag, Bush. Armalite, RRA)  AR-15 into combat? Thinking mostly about reliability, ruggedness, accuracy, etc.

Quoted: Aside from ARs being semi-auto, and ignoring any possible inherent flaws in M4/AR-15 design, how comfortable would you feel carrying a typical (Colt, Stag, Bush. Armalite, RRA)  AR-15 into combat? Thinking mostly about reliability, ruggedness, accuracy, etc.

Since I retired this year and went back as a contractor.  I was issued a semi Double Star M4.  It never failed me in 8 months.  I'm in the center flanked by two Colt M4s.



CD

L.E.O.'s are going into combat every day with semi-auto AR15's of various brands.  

I trust my AR's with my life along with the lives of my family, friends and anyone else I have the opportunity to protect.  Two Colts (One SBR and one M4 - Pimped out)  and one Bushmaster/RRA M4.  

Quoted: L.E.O.'s are going into combat every day

I'd carry any of mine into combat...like has been said, quality parts, quality ammo, and some TLC.  Your rifle should work just fine.

Cool. Thanks.

Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s are going into combat every day

+1 on the +=

I carried one for 24 years, I love them and I was a 11B and 19D.  My son's and nephew's carry them now and all of them say, Uncle TF please buy me one as a get home present.

if i could grab 1 gun, id pick up my ar over my ak, unless it was guarunteed to be <100yd shooting.  But that never happens so...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s are going into combat every day   +1 on the +=

 

For you guys.  

The 31 L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.  

Detective James Walker
Miami Police Department, FL
EOW: Tuesday, January 8, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Eric Barker
DeKalb County Police Department, GA
EOW: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Ricky Bryant Jr.
DeKalb County Police Department, GA
EOW: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire  

Detective Jarrod Shivers
Chesapeake Police Department, VA
EOW: Thursday, January 17, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Nicola Cotton
New Orleans Police Department, LA
EOW: Monday, January 28, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Thomas Frederick (Tom) Ballman
Kirkwood Police Department, MO
EOW: Thursday, February 7, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Sergeant William King Biggs Jr.
Kirkwood Police Department, MO
EOW: Thursday, February 7, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Randal (Randy) Simmons
Los Angeles Police Department, CA
EOW: Thursday, February 7, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Corporal Harry Thielepape
Harris County Constable's Office - Precinct 6, TX
EOW: Wednesday, February 20, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Derek Owens
Cleveland Police Department, OH
EOW: Saturday, March 1, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Correction Officer Kenneth Duncan
New York City Department of Correction, NY
EOW: Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Trooper James Scott Burns
Texas Department of Public Safety - Texas Highway Patrol, TX
EOW: Tuesday, April 29, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff William Howell Jr.
Orangeburg County Sheriff's Office, SC
EOW: Saturday, May 3, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Sergeant Stephen Liczbinski
Philadelphia Police Department, PA
EOW: Saturday, May 3, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Erik David Hite
Tucson Police Department, AZ
EOW: Monday, June 2, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff Anthony Shane Tate
Grundy County Sheriff's Department, TN
EOW: Thursday, June 5, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Todd Bahr
Fredericksburg Police Department, VA
EOW: Friday, June 6, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff Jose Antonio (Tony) Diaz
Yolo County Sheriff's Department, CA
EOW: Sunday, June 15, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Trooper David Shawn Blanton Jr.
North Carolina Highway Patrol, NC
EOW: Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Richard Francis
Chicago Police Department, IL
EOW: Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Joshua T. Miktarian
Twinsburg Police Department, OH
EOW: Sunday, July 13, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Andrew Widman
Fort Myers Police Department, FL
EOW: Friday, July 18, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff Anthony Forgione
Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office, FL
EOW: Tuesday, July 22, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff Dennis Compton
Colleton County Sheriff's Office, SC
EOW: Wednesday, August 6, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Detective Michael Smith Phillips
Virginia Beach Police Department, VA
EOW: Thursday, August 7, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff Anne Jackson
Skagit County Sheriff's Office, WA
EOW: Tuesday, September 2, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Sergeant Paul Starzyk
Martinez Police Department, CA
EOW: Saturday, September 6, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Deputy Sheriff Adam William Klutz
Caldwell County Sheriff's Office, NC
EOW: Friday, September 19, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Officer Kristine Fairbanks
United States Department of Agriculture - Forest Service Law Enfo..., US (Washington)
EOW: Saturday, September 20, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Sergeant Patrick McDonald
Philadelphia Police Department, PA
EOW: Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire

Police Officer Nathaniel Taylor Jr.
Chicago Police Department, IL
EOW: Sunday, September 28, 2008
Cause of Death: Gunfire


 

Being from a LEO family thats a little hard to look at, and it reminds me of why we all need to be vigilant.  On a side police officers should be fully equipped for all their needs.  If they need ARs, give them ARs, ifthey need full auto to do heir job give it to them, and train them properly to use them all.  I hate it when I hear that an underarmed police office gets killed or injured.

Well mine is GTG for zombie killing!

Not a cop hater here. In fact I spent 6 years as a cop while in between military services.

People can go to a combat zone and NEVER see armed combat
Cops can go a whole career and NEVER see armed combat

As a cop I never once thought I was going into combat every day, but I did know that
every day I was putting myself into potential danger. That is in no way combat, untill
the bullets start flying.

Quoted: Aside from ARs being semi-auto, and ignoring any possible inherent flaws in M4/AR-15 design, how comfortable would you feel carrying a typical (Colt, Stag, Bush. Armalite, RRA)  AR-15 into combat? Thinking mostly about reliability, ruggedness, accuracy, etc.

inherent flaws? Explain or be banned!!!!!!!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Aside from ARs being semi-auto, and ignoring any possible inherent flaws in M4/AR-15 design, how comfortable would you feel carrying a typical (Colt, Stag, Bush. Armalite, RRA)  AR-15 into combat? Thinking mostly about reliability, ruggedness, accuracy, etc. inherent flaws? Explain or be banned!!!!!!!!!

HAHA I think hes talking about DI being dirtier than Piston

Quoted: Quoted: i do and much less boring than sitting day after day going on mounted patrols with nothing happening but freakin hodji kids trying to get something free from me I seriously doubt ANY cop in ANY city in the united states has to deal with the day to day stresses a soldier over in the international zone does.  No city in the US has roadside IEDs going off daily if not hourly, snipers on rooftops and buildings, and RPG attacks on convoys.  Even comparing mounted patrols to pulling over someone for speeding is obsurd.  The difference is that people here arent looking for any and all ways to kill you...over there they are.

You're forgetting how many of us cops are vets & continue to live with the stresses for previous combat every day for the rest of our lives. Combat stress is combat stress gents. You can suffer from it after just one singular event or several repeated experiences. I've been through a few stresses as a cop that were worse than when on active duty abroad & vice-versa. It's prolly not wise to pop off with generalizations & stereo-types about a certain profession unless you live with the same demons or have experienced them yourself.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i do and much less boring than sitting day after day going on mounted patrols with nothing happening but freakin hodji kids trying to get something free from me I seriously doubt ANY cop in ANY city in the united states has to deal with the day to day stresses a soldier over in the international zone does.  No city in the US has roadside IEDs going off daily if not hourly, snipers on rooftops and buildings, and RPG attacks on convoys.  Even comparing mounted patrols to pulling over someone for speeding is obsurd.  The difference is that people here arent looking for any and all ways to kill you...over there they are. You're forgetting how many of us cops are vets & continue to live with the stresses for previous combat every day for the rest of our lives. Combat stress is combat stress gents. You can suffer from it after just one singular event or several repeated experiences. I've been through a few stresses as a cop that were worse than when on active duty abroad & vice-versa. It's prolly not wise to pop off with generalizations & stereo-types about a certain profession unless you live with the same demons or have experienced them yourself.

I have and am speaking from experience.  I was not trying to downplay what LEOs do at all, but working as a LEO and being in combat are completely different monsters.  I was just trying to point out the fact that on a daily basis soldiers are put into harms way in a much different way than a LEO, and the inherant risks a soldier faces can be much more life threathening than that of the LEO.  Not a hater in any sense, appreciatte what both do...its just a very different life both lead

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i do and much less boring than sitting day after day going on mounted patrols with nothing happening but freakin hodji kids trying to get something free from me I seriously doubt ANY cop in ANY city in the united states has to deal with the day to day stresses a soldier over in the international zone does.  No city in the US has roadside IEDs going off daily if not hourly, snipers on rooftops and buildings, and RPG attacks on convoys.  Even comparing mounted patrols to pulling over someone for speeding is obsurd.  The difference is that people here arent looking for any and all ways to kill you...over there they are. You're forgetting how many of us cops are vets & continue to live with the stresses for previous combat every day for the rest of our lives. Combat stress is combat stress gents. You can suffer from it after just one singular event or several repeated experiences. I've been through a few stresses as a cop that were worse than when on active duty abroad & vice-versa. It's prolly not wise to pop off with generalizations & stereo-types about a certain profession unless you live with the same demons or have experienced them yourself. I have and am speaking from experience.  I was not trying to downplay what LEOs do at all, but working as a LEO and being in combat are completely different monsters.  I was just trying to point out the fact that on a daily basis soldiers are put into harms way in a much different way than a LEO, and the inherant risks a soldier faces can be much more life threathening than that of the LEO.  Not a hater in any sense, appreciatte what both do...its just a very different life both lead

Very well.

Quoted: Quoted: Being from a LEO family thats a little hard to look at, and it reminds me of why we all need to be vigilant.  On a side police officers should be fully equipped for all their needs.  If they need ARs, give them ARs, ifthey need full auto to do heir job give it to them, and train them properly to use them all.  I hate it when I hear that an underarmed police office gets killed or injured. I disagree, police officers should be subject to same gun restrictions that civs do to prevent the US vs THEM mentality. As Thomas Jefferson put it "Anything that is illegal for the citizen but legal for the government is TYRANNY."

Best post in the thread, with the caveat, "law abiding civilians".  I hate it just as much when an under-armed "civilian" gets killed or injured.

I'd feel very comfortable carrying any of my AR's assuming it uses quality ammo and is of quality manufacture.  

keep it lubed, use good ammo, and you're good to go

and good optics

The AR15 is an exceptional weapon system.

My stock Colt hbar would do me good in a red dawn senario.

My M4gery is equal to or superior to my combat rifle in every way but the happy switch.  

So I guess what I mean to say is I would feel very comfortable.

~Augee

Yes.  Moreso than the M4 I carried once upon a time as now I have the freedom to mod and reconfigure as I please.

Read some Pat Rogers material.

A quality AR with good magazines, ammunition, properly maintained.
 Odds are, it can shoot all the ammo you can carry without a hiccup, and outshoot the operator in the accuracy department.

Quoted: Read some Pat Rogers material. A quality AR with good magazines, ammunition, properly maintained.  Odds are, it can shoot all the ammo you can carry without a hiccup, and outshoot the operator in the accuracy department.

This.  IIRC, AR's run better wet.  

My Colt/Ameetec is good-to-go, IMHO. It's my only AR currently not in pieces, so I guess I have to trust it

Are you serious?

The AR15 is in use in combat as we type.

Proper maintence is the key, followed by good quality mags!

I would be 100% with carrying my mutt ar15 into combat right now. I have shot at least 8000 rounds of wolf threw it with zero I repeat ZERO malfunctions.

I even went as far as shooting ~2000 rounds of wolf with no cleaning. Did this over the course of a summer. Never had a malfunction.

So with quality ammo hell yea I'd be ok with it. The barrel on mine isn't even chrome lined. I figure the barrel has to be getting pretty worn but it still shoots amazing.

I have a mix of magazines that have given me zero problems also.

I used a bone stock BM M4 upper on my M16A2 in Iraq so I trust it completely.

Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.

With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc.

That is not combat.

Death Toll Rises for Cops Killed in Line of Duty
by Joel Rose
Morning Edition, November 8, 2007 · Police in Philadelphia buried fellow officer Chuck Cassidy, who was shot and killed during a robbery. Across the country, law enforcement officials this year are reporting a spike in the number of officers killed in the line of duty.

Joel Rose reports from member station WHYY in Philadelphia

154 police officers killed in line of duty in 2004
57, about one-third, died from shootings, the organizations said. A variety of causes led to the other deaths.

153 Police Died in Line of Duty in 2005
60 died in 2005 in shootings
+=

Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.   With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc. That is not combat.

your idea of combat is very narrow let me help you
while military combat is diferent than leo combat the same principals apply people still DIE

combat
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 7 dictionary results for: combat
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
com·bat      /v. kəmˈbæt, ˈkɒmbæt, ˈkʌm-; n. ˈkɒmbæt, ˈkʌm-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[v. kuhm-bat, kom-bat, kuhm-; n. kom-bat, kuhm-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing or (especially British) -bat·ted, -bat·ting, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to fight or contend against; oppose vigorously: to combat crime.  
–verb (used without object) 2. to battle; contend: to combat with disease.  
–noun 3. Military. active, armed fighting with enemy forces.  
4. a fight, struggle, or controversy, as between two persons, teams, or ideas.  


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1535–45; < MF combat (n.), combattre (v.) < LL combattere, equiv. to L com- com- + LL battere, for L battuere to strike, beat]

—Related forms
com·bat·a·ble, adjective


—Synonyms 1, 2. struggle, contest.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
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 American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This com·bat      (kəm-bāt', kŏm'bāt')  Pronunciation Key  
v.   com·bat·ed or com·bat·ted, com·bat·ing or com·bat·ting, com·bats

v.   tr.
To oppose in battle; fight against.
To oppose vigorously; struggle against. See Synonyms at oppose.
v.   intr.
To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
n.   (kŏm'bāt')
Fighting, especially armed battle; strife. See Synonyms at conflict.
adj.   (kŏm'bāt')
Of or relating to combat: flew 50 combat missions.
Intended for use or deployment in combat: combat boots; combat troops.

[French combattre, from Old French, from Late Latin combattere : Latin com-, com- + Latin battere, to beat (alteration of battuere).]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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 Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
combat  (v.)

1489 (implied in combatant), from M.Fr. combattre, from L.L. combattere, from L. com- "with" (each other) + battuere "to beat, fight" (see batter (v.)). The noun is first recorded 1567.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
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 WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This combat
noun
1.  an engagement fought between two military forces  
2.  the act of fighting; any contest or struggle; "a fight broke out at the hockey game"; "there was fighting in the streets"; "the unhappy couple got into a terrible scrap" [syn: fight]  
verb
1.  battle or contend against in or as if in a battle; "The Kurds are combating Iraqi troops in Northern Iraq"; "We must combat the prejudices against other races"; "they battled over the budget" [syn: battle]  
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
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 Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
Combat

Com"bat\ (? or ?; 277), v. i. [imp. & p. p. Combated; p. pr. & vb. n. Combating.] [F. combattre; pref. com- + battre to beat, fr. L. battuere to strike. See Batter.] To struggle or contend, as with an opposing force; to fight.
To combat with a blind man I disdain. --Milton.
After the fall of the republic, the Romans combated only for the choice of masters. --Gibbon.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
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 Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
Combat
Com"bat\, v. t. To fight with; to oppose by force, argument, etc.; to contend against; to resist.
When he the ambitious Norway combated. --Shak.
And combated in silence all these reasons. --Milton.
Minds combat minds, repelling and repelled. --Goldsmith.
Syn: To fight against; resist; oppose; withstand; oppugn; antagonize; repel; resent.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

I have never had a failure in any of my AR15s that shoot .223/5.56 (including the Carbon15). I occasionally encounter a FTF in my .22 and 9mm ARs. I have Del-ton, Colt, Rock River Arms, and Bushmaster uppers on Spike's, DPMS, Colt, and Bushmaster lowers.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s are going into combat every day   +1 on the +=

...lol

So they think they are...

Is this forum even moderated anymore?

Congratulations whiny cop haters: another successful hijack in pursuit of the GDization of the tech forums.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.   With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc. That is not combat.

nothing good will come of this....

Quoted: your idea of combat is very narrow let me help you while military combat is diferent than leo combat the same principals apply people still DIE

The OP's definition of combat seems to differ from yours.

That's what I was getting at.

Going home at the end of your shift and cleaning your rifle =/= combat where you don't have that opportunity and your rifle may have to run for a while on just some more lube.

Otherwise, the question would be moot. What AR couldn't go 30-60-90 rounds without jamming?

Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.   With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc. That is not combat.

That is how I read it. Taking your AR into A-Stan, North Korea, Iraq, etc. right now...do you trust it?

Quoted: Quoted: your idea of combat is very narrow let me help you while military combat is diferent than leo combat the same principals apply people still DIE The OP's definition of combat seems to differ from yours. That's what I was getting at. Going home at the end of your shift and cleaning your rifle =/= combat where you don't have that opportunity and your rifle may have to run for a while on just some more lube. Otherwise, the question would be moot. What AR couldn't go 30-60-90 rounds without jamming?

I meant to quote this post..not your other.


That is how I read it. Taking your AR into A-Stan, North Korea, Iraq, etc. right now...do you trust it?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: your idea of combat is very narrow let me help you while military combat is diferent than leo combat the same principals apply people still DIE The OP's definition of combat seems to differ from yours. That's what I was getting at. Going home at the end of your shift and cleaning your rifle =/= combat where you don't have that opportunity and your rifle may have to run for a while on just some more lube. Otherwise, the question would be moot. What AR couldn't go 30-60-90 rounds without jamming? I meant to quote this post..not your other. That is how I read it. Taking your AR into A-Stan, North Korea, Iraq, etc. right now...do you trust it?

Yeah, exactly. Someone could come along and say that his definition of combat is hand to hand with maybe a club. So is your AR a suitable club for combat?

Quoted: Is this forum even moderated anymore? Congratulations whiny cop haters: another successful hijack in pursuit of the GDization of the tech forums.

Nobody is bashing cops whiner

Semantics have led some folks to believe the OP meant military combat and others read it as every instance involving firearms combat.

Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.   With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc. That is not combat.

acually i know full well what the op meant i was responding to this

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.   With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc. That is not combat. acually i know full well what the op meant i was responding to this

Go find a cop and ask him if he considers his job to be day to day combat.

i do
and much less boring than sitting day after day going on mounted patrols with nothing happening but freakin hodji kids trying to get something free from me

Quoted: I'd feel very comfortable carrying any of my AR's assuming it uses quality ammo and is of quality manufacture.

+1

Quoted: Aside from ARs being semi-auto, and ignoring any possible inherent flaws in M4/AR-15 design, how comfortable would you feel carrying a typical (Colt, Stag, Bush. Armalite, RRA)  AR-15 into combat? Thinking mostly about reliability, ruggedness, accuracy, etc.

I'd be perfectly comfortable carrying my Noveske N4 Recce or my M16A1 clone (Colt M16A1 upper on an Nodak Spud NDS-16A1 lower assembled by me) into harm's way.  I did not build my other ARs for "serious social use".

I think any Colt, LMT or Noveske that has been broken-in without incident would do fine.  Probably many other brands, too.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: L.E.O.'s  killed by gunfire in the United States so far in 2008.  If this isn't combat, please tell me what you think combat is.   With all due respect to the fallen, none of it compares to Normandy, Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh, Fallujah, etc. That is not combat. acually i know full well what the op meant i was responding to this Go find a cop and ask him if he considers his job to be day to day combat.

Nope. I don't. However, I don't work for a large city department. Someone working in DC Metro or Baltimore City probably has a different opinion. Both the (former) DC police officer I work with and the former Baltimore city officer said they were shot at on at least a weekly basis.