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Posted: 12/6/2001 7:40:33 PM EDT
[#1]
That's a tall order. How can 20,000 people affect the poilitics of a state?
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Posted: 12/7/2001 9:54:43 AM EDT
[#2]
bunghole: The plan is to find a small state, one where the population is low. When you have a smaller population, 20,000 people can make a difference. Also, the entire population never votes, its only 50% at most, and usually around 15-20%. That makes easy to influence the elections.
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:02:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Interesting Idea. The Libertarian Party would be the ideal vehicle for this, I suppose.
Except that most of the people in the LP are too busy acting like scorpions in a bottle to agree on most anything. BTW, is there still a Libertarian Party now that Harry Browne has been "cleared" of charges of wrongdoing during the last election? I'm waiting for the inevitable schism to occur. |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:06:55 AM EDT
[#4]
How about cutting a deal with an Indian Reservation?
They are *supposedly* an independant nation? Can you say "$700 M-16's"? |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:09:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: How about cutting a deal with an Indian Reservation? They are *supposedly* an independant nation? Can you say "$700 M-16's"? IIRC, they tried this at Wounded Knee. Not exactly a success. |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:15:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Libertarians and conservatives by default don't get along. They are just friends now as Democrats/Socialists are more offensive to both of them.
Most conservatives don't mind social engineering as a concept. They just don't like its current direction. If it were more oriented toward their beliefs, it would be perfectly fine with them. |
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Posted: 12/8/2001 3:45:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Small state HUH?.. How does Rhode Island sound??
What ever state they pick it will have to be in the New England area..Those states are all small, even Maine if you look at the actual population not just the size of the state.... BISHOP |
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Posted: 12/8/2001 3:53:45 PM EDT
[#8]
I say we just insight a revolution in Canda instead. It would be alot easier. I have alot of canadian friends how would go for it.
20,000 guys with 'evil' rifles in Canada would prolly be enought to over throw the socialist. Think up a name and deisgn a flag and we're set! |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 1:32:04 PM EDT
[#9]
btt
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Posted: 12/9/2001 2:02:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Small state HUH?.. How does Rhode Island sound?? What ever state they pick it will have to be in the New England area..Those states are all small, even Maine if you look at the actual population not just the size of the state.... BISHOP Not small in area, small in population. I think they are thinking of a place like Montana or Idaho, someplace with a really small popualtion. The plus of Montana or Idaho is that most of the people living there are already conservatives. |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 2:18:46 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm with the Red Man on this one. Montana is great, anyway, except for the winters. They make Chicago look balmy in January...
Basically, we'd be doing to Montana what the Dems did to Chicago, except in reverse, and for the better! |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 2:21:41 PM EDT
[#12]
What can 20,000 liberty minded activists do? Jason answers that question here: [url]http://www.freestateproject.com/strategies.htm[/url]
here is the list of states currently being considered: Wyoming Vermont Alaska N. Dakota S. Dakota Delaware Montana Rhode Island Hawaii N. Hampshire Maine Idaho Nebraska W. Virgina N. Mexico Nevada New Hampshire is the state that is most favored right now. Find more info here: [url]http://www.freestateproject.com/statedata.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 2:32:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Assuming you could do this, you would be free of state laws. However, all of those annoying federal laws would still apply...
Unless, of course, you try to seceed from the union. That's been tried before, too. -Troy |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 3:35:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Well, Rhode Island has 2 things going for it:
First, the existing gov't is so corrupt that a FEW bucks could go a long way in buying off the opposition, Second is article 1 sec 22 of the state constitution: "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". That's it. Also, the State of RI has some VERY interesting and very old Militia laws. 'Nuff said. |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 5:06:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Hello!! Anybody home??!!?? (Is this thing on?) Earth to you guys!!
Get together 20,000 people that are dumb enough to think this would work? That's one shallow gene pool! I think that you guys would last about as long as it took for the beer to run out, then it would got to hell fast. On second thought, I think it's a *great* idea, but believe you'd have better luck with a small Caribbean island or perhaps some piece of South America. Someplace *far* away. Please be sure and renounce your US citizenship, and I'd be happy to contribute to a one-way ticket. G.B. Shaw said that people get the kind of government they deserve. This would be a great test of that theory, doncha know! Seriously now, for one example of how stupid this is just consider this: the anticipated budget for RI for 2002 is 5.145 BILLION DOLLARS. Assume for a second that figure is bloated by beauracracy, and it *really* only takes 1/4 or 1/5 of that to run the state. So, where you gonna get the BILLION DOLLARS it would take to run the state and provide the necessary services to all it's residents? Get real! Bwahahaha! [:P] |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 5:13:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Hello!! Anybody home??!!?? (Is this thing on?) Earth to you guys!! Get together 20,000 people that are dumb enough to think this would work? That's one shallow gene pool! I think that you guys would last about as long as it took for the beer to run out, then it would got to hell fast. On second thought, I think it's a *great* idea, but believe you'd have better luck with a small Caribbean island or perhaps some piece of South America. Someplace *far* away. Please be sure and renounce your US citizenship, and I'd be happy to contribute to a one-way ticket. G.B. Shaw said that people get the kind of government they deserve. This would be a great test of that theory, doncha know! Seriously now, for one example of how stupid this is just consider this: the anticipated budget for RI for 2002 is 5.145 BILLION DOLLARS. Assume for a second that figure is bloated by beauracracy, and it *really* only takes 1/4 or 1/5 of that to run the state. So, where you gonna get the BILLION DOLLARS it would take to run the state and provide the necessary services to all it's residents? Get real! Bwahahaha! [:P] $1500 buys an RI State Rep or Senator. Maybe you ought to ask some one closer to home, instead of simply skimming factiods off the Net. |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 5:26:03 PM EDT
[#17]
It's not a "factiod" it's a "fact" (from the RI official published budget). I didn't see any official price to buy a local RI politician in the line items for the budget, so just add whatever it costs to buy one to the $5.145 billion. Sounds pretty cheap!
Not raggin' on RI, BTW, just the idiocy of the plan. If people would just think for a second what it actually takes to live in this world, instead of fantasizing about some over-simplified version of life, these topics would never come up- with any seriousness at least. |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 5:31:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: It's not a "factiod" it's a "fact" (from the RI official published budget). I didn't see any official price to buy a local RI politician in the line items for the budget, so just add whatever it costs to buy one to the $5.145 billion. Sounds pretty cheap! Not raggin' on RI, BTW, just the idiocy of the plan. If people would just think for a second what it actually takes to live in this world, instead of fantasizing about some over-simplified version of life, these topics would never come up- with any seriousness at least. Yo, buddy! I think it's a pipe-dream, too. Nevertheless, one could buy the Legislature of the State of RI for cheap. BTW, we've had no new anti-gun laws enacted during the last 12 years. (Not that we need any more). Wonder why that is... |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 5:43:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Great! So now you've got all these cheap politicians, you gotta feed 'em... I hear they're a hungry bunch! Can you just fire them all once they are yours? Wouldn't THAT be great!
These adolescent escapist fantasies pop up because of a failure to recognize that things are the way they are for a reason. Remember "Lord of The Flies"... People at their best aren't much better than people at their worse. I think these guys wanting to "take over" their over state should just keep drinkin', and sing the Who song "We won't get fooled again" over and over... Congrats on the gun laws, BTW. I, too, wonder why that is. |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 5:47:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Why that is is because of the activism of a number of good people, two of whom are National Directors of the Board of the NRA, an active and committed firearms public (small state, everybody knows everything), and judicious "contributions".
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Posted: 12/9/2001 6:22:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Think they'd like to be taken over by these 20,000?
[;)] |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 6:23:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Make them an offer they can't refuse. [;)]
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Posted: 12/9/2001 7:08:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Make them an offer they can't refuse. [;)] I just wonder who'd you be "bidding" against? [:D] |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 7:13:29 PM EDT
[#24]
It could be done so quietly and inexpensively, and with such rapidity, that an effective opposition would not have time to coalesce. No kidding.
Not to buy into a pipe-dream like the one outlined above, but a modified version IS possible. |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 8:32:47 PM EDT
[#25]
You make it sound like it's already been done... I can't imagine it'd be that cheap, or that easy. Certainly not for something so high minded as "liberty". Lots and lots of cash, perhaps...
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Posted: 12/9/2001 8:48:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Well, on a very small scale, do you remember about the last 12 years thing mentioned earlier?
That was accomplished for a song. Imagine what some REAL $ could accomplish! |
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Posted: 12/9/2001 10:50:50 PM EDT
[#27]
lib,
If they serve purple Kool-aid at the Free State Project meetings, I would strongly advise you not to drink it. |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 1:38:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: lib, If they serve purple Kool-aid at the Free State Project meetings, I would strongly advise you not to drink it. Shhhhh!! [:)] |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 1:45:56 PM EDT
[#29]
umm RI has a million people, is really really liberal, small and it has no natural resources... how about british columbia, has wildreness, coastline, and probably not many people..
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Posted: 12/10/2001 1:51:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: umm RI has a million people, is really really liberal, small and it has no natural resources... how about british columbia, has wildreness, coastline, and probably not many people.. True, but the libs here can be dealt with. Besides, BC, being part of Canada, is not subject to the protections of the Second Amendment, let alone any of the rest of the BOR or Constitution. Why introduce the added complications of international affairs? |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 1:54:11 PM EDT
[#31]
well i live in rhode island and we have a great infestation of stupid people.... we cant just kickem all out now can we... hmm texas can succeed right, so can half of the counties in it? say everywhere but dallas and the mexican border towns...
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Posted: 12/10/2001 1:54:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Yup! BC. Don't forget to take all of your guns with you.
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Posted: 12/10/2001 2:02:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Well, I don't know if the people in RI are more stupid than others elsewhere, but the corruption level here is most likely second to none.
As for the Texas thing, I've heard that before, but can't confirm its validity. |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 2:17:11 PM EDT
[#34]
corruption what corruption, its not like the mayor of the capitol is a felon or the highest paid teachers in the state still strike everyear, or millions of dollars in bonds are approved for port development that never gets around to occurring.....
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Posted: 12/10/2001 2:23:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Well I'm not really planning to move, but if I was going to, I would vote for Hawaii or New Mexico. Everyplace else is too cold.
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Posted: 12/10/2001 2:32:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Well, I don't like the cold, either. BUT, I have a theory: The warmer the average year-round temperature, the greater the percentage of useless bums and layabouts in the general population.
This is so for the simple reason that it is EASIER to be a bum in warmer climes, as cold weather requires an active response to it, such as buying clothes and heat, and heating a dwelling. What do y'all think? |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 2:37:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Well, I don't like the cold, either. BUT, I have a theory: The warmer the average year-round temperature, the greater the percentage of useless bums and layabouts in the general population. This is so for the simple reason that it is EASIER to be a bum in warmer climes, as cold weather requires an active response to it, such as buying clothes and heat, and heating a dwelling. What do y'all think? I suspect that is true. Houston sure has more than it's share them. I also don't see where RI, MT, ND, etc. have a significant illegal immigration problem. Another advantage. However, I've been away from the cold climate too long to go back. I'll just have to put up with a few of the problems associated with a warmer climate. |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 2:47:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Can't blame you there, Houston.
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Posted: 12/10/2001 6:29:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Interesting Idea. The Libertarian Party would be the ideal vehicle for this, I suppose. Except that most of the people in the LP are too busy acting like scorpions in a bottle to agree on most anything. BTW, is there still a Libertarian Party now that Harry Browne has been "cleared" of charges of wrongdoing during the last election? I'm waiting for the inevitable schism to occur. not a flame, but just curious if you have links concerning Harry Browne being "cleared" of campaign violation charges. Harry Browne is not the Libertarian party. the day that the party becomes a man; is the day i become an independant again. stinging lib |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 6:32:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Libertarians and conservatives by default don't get along. They are just friends now as Democrats/Socialists are more offensive to both of them. Most conservatives don't mind social engineering as a concept. They just don't like its current direction. If it were more oriented toward their beliefs, it would be perfectly fine with them. [:)]left-wing extremists keep calling me a conservative.[:)] liberal-conservative lib free; and make it stay that way |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 6:48:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Well, I don't like the cold, either. BUT, I have a theory: The warmer the average year-round temperature, the greater the percentage of useless bums and layabouts in the general population. This is so for the simple reason that it is EASIER to be a bum in warmer climes, as cold weather requires an active response to it, such as buying clothes and heat, and heating a dwelling. What do y'all think? But why Rhode Island? It's small (Hell, Augusta County VA is twice the size of RI), but has a large, very liberal population, and is surrounded on three sides by shit (Massachusetts on 2 and the polluted Atlantic on the other). Montana would be much better. Half the population, a couple hundred times the size. |
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Posted: 12/10/2001 7:22:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Why not just liberate Cuba. bribing politicians is one thing, but why not be willing to bleed for it.
its beautiful down there, and the Cuban chicks are hot. any change to Cuba would be a positive one. FREE CUBA NOW the 51st state; how about it? no more little kids floating over in tires. tropical lib |
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Posted: 12/11/2001 3:35:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Interesting Idea. The Libertarian Party would be the ideal vehicle for this, I suppose. Except that most of the people in the LP are too busy acting like scorpions in a bottle to agree on most anything. BTW, is there still a Libertarian Party now that Harry Browne has been "cleared" of charges of wrongdoing during the last election? I'm waiting for the inevitable schism to occur. not a flame, but just curious if you have links concerning Harry Browne being "cleared" of campaign violation charges. Harry Browne is not the Libertarian party. the day that the party becomes a man; is the day i become an independant again. stinging lib Not yet. Liberty Mag's website has not yet updated to reflect this, although the print version has had several stories on the shenanigans in the LP. [url]http://www.libertysoft.com/liberty/[/url] You [i]do[/i] read Liberty mag, right? As for Harry Browne, as the standard-bearer of the LP, he publicly represents the Party. Therefore, he is the public face of the Party. And, unfortunately, the party is judged by his utterances and actions, fairly or not. That's just the way things work. |
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Posted: 12/11/2001 3:40:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Well, I don't like the cold, either. BUT, I have a theory: The warmer the average year-round temperature, the greater the percentage of useless bums and layabouts in the general population. This is so for the simple reason that it is EASIER to be a bum in warmer climes, as cold weather requires an active response to it, such as buying clothes and heat, and heating a dwelling. What do y'all think? But why Rhode Island? It's small (Hell, Augusta County VA is twice the size of RI), but has a large, very liberal population, and is surrounded on three sides by shit (Massachusetts on 2 and the polluted Atlantic on the other). Montana would be much better. Half the population, a couple hundred times the size. If you'll read up the thread a bit, the proposed reason for selecting RI is that the state is so corrupt that a little money goes a long way in buying political influence, which is precisely the desired goal. Besides, the climate isn't so harsh as other states, Montana included. |
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Posted: 12/11/2001 3:43:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Why not just liberate Cuba. bribing politicians is one thing, but why not be willing to bleed for it. its beautiful down there, and the Cuban chicks are hot. any change to Cuba would be a positive one. FREE CUBA NOW the 51st state; how about it? no more little kids floating over in tires. tropical lib While Cuba has some positive attributes, its being a foreign country injects all kinds of unnecessary complications into the scheme. |
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