Hiram - You need a copy of the receiver's FFL, signed in ink.

B Man

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Are you saying that the buyer's FFL dealer is trying to say that's okay for you to ship a gun to him without having first received a copy of his FFL? If so, I'm sure that it's against the law and wouldn't do it. Otherwise, anyone could just say they are a dealer and have you ship them guns with no confirmation of they're being a legitimately licensed dealer.

My understanding is that the only time you may ship guns without having first received a copy of their FFL is to licensed manufacturers and gunsmiths to be serviced or repaired with the expectation that they will then be returned to YOU.

If you're an FFL you must have an ink signed copy of an FFL to send a gun to out of state.

If you're just an individual, you technically don't need anything, but a copy of the FFL (signed or just a xerox copy) is prudent to CYA.  Remember, no individual can sell a gun to another individual across state lines, so to make sure the guy you're sending the gun to is not an individual, you should see and have a copy of his license.  Doesn't have to be an original ink signed copy, a xerox copy is good enough to show that the gun went to an FFL in another state.

Damn, I hope that wasn't the SLR-95.  I was gonna talk to you about it next week.

Legally, you do not need a copy of his FFL although it is a good CYA.  Another way to verify the validity of his FFL and business address is through the BATF FFL EZCheck web site.  The dealer shouldn't object to giving you the first 3 and last 5 digets of his FFL.  With these, you can verify the license.  See the link.




[url]http://204.254.113.252/[/url]

HR -

A lot of FFL's don't like providing copies of their FFL to unlicensed individuals for fear of the individual doing something shady with the license. There was a recent case where some kids in NJ obtained a license, copied it and altered the name and address and used it to order guns to their home.  What many FFL's do (including yours truly) is provive a xerox copy with something to the effect of "FILE COPY FOR MR. HIRAM RANGER ONLY" written diagonally across the license in big bold letters or magic marker.  The more material on the license that has to be altered, the more difficult it is to pull off a stunt like that.  And of course, the FFL isn't responsible for the acts of anyone who would play alter and copy with a license.

If that is what the BATF is saying then do it that way! FWIW, that is the only way I have transferred firearms to buyers in different states.

Amazing, but at the same time not really surprising.

There's a lot of people at BATF offices around the country who wouldn't know their asshole from their elbow.  God forbid you ask them a question about federal firearms law.

HR if you want, drop me an email, I'll get an FFL out of these guys for you.

I have shipped rifles from NY to Fla and Mn via the USPS to FFl holders no problem,However I was told by an ATF agent that I could not ship direct to the buyer unless he/she was an FFL. However if you ship a gun to a gunsmith for work he can ship it direct back to you. Ovbiously no ammo can go with the gun and the package MUST NOT  be marked to indicate contents
With all of the scams going on lately I would only ship to an FFL and as you have done verify validity and address info of that FFL.

HiramRanger, you seem to feel exactly as they want you to. They want to discourage this kind of thing! And, it is amazing how you can get different answers depending on to whom you speak - and these ones ought to know - dealers, ATF? I have found dealers to want to do it their way, which means only receiving from or sending to an FFL that they can verify because they have a signed copy in hand. Might be the law in some cases, in others it is not. It also makes good sense when there is a problem with the firearm. I mean, how do you send a rifle back when your customer refuses it due to condition or the like, when the person on the other end isn't an FFL? Turns into a big hassle.

I am continually amazed at how confusing these laws are. ATF could very easily put up a more understandable chart or figure, or table that would alleviate some confusion. But, then there is always state and local laws that might have some bearing on these transactions.

Make it more and more confusing and less and less people will buy and sell, or be able to afford to do so.

It really is quite simple. An unlicensed person may transfer a firearm to licensed dealer in any state for any lawful purpose UNLESS restricted by local law in EITHER state. The only other restriction is that handguns must be shipped by a common carrier. NY has no such restriction at the STATE level for long guns.

You do not need a signed copy of the receivers FFL but it is wise to verify that the shipping address and receiver is in fact a licensed dealer.

If a dealer chooses to only receive firearms from another licensed dealer that is his prerogative. The law does not require it but if it is the dealer’s business practice there is nothing wrong with that.

Went through all this bullshit recently myself. You can ship direct but need a copy of his FFL. He don't need squat but from experience I doubt he is going to budge so just do it his way if you can and get it over with.
My entire fiasco has led me to apply for my own FFL. Wish that damn thing would get here. I'm itching to buy something.

Under federal law an unlicensed person is not required to have a signed copy of an FFL to ship a firearm to an FFL holder. Only an FFL dealer is required by law to have and retain a signed FFL copy prior to shipping to another dealer.