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Posted: 12/6/2001 8:29:00 AM EDT
[#1]
They are not any better.
cpermd |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 8:42:35 AM EDT
[#2]
There's a guy on the Hard Core Talk board who goes by "Garand." He claims to be in the Canadian army and all he ever does is bitch about the C7.
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Posted: 12/6/2001 11:16:42 AM EDT
[#3]
The C7's are AR clones and are built to the same exact specs and materials as the American M-4/16's. The only thing that could be different might be quality control. Since they charge up the ass for the C7's, maybe they reject more slightly out of spec rifles than American companies do.
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Posted: 12/6/2001 11:52:22 AM EDT
[#4]
I think that they have done it only because Canad is a commonwealth country. They made that abomination of the sa80 only because of national pride.
This is something similar I suspect. Pinco is that Delta Body Armor in your icon picture? Thanks Ariel |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 12:13:03 PM EDT
[#5]
The C7 is not better than the M16 in terms of quality/craftsmanship, but it is a better configuration than any of the US military 20" M16s. IMO, of course.
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Posted: 12/6/2001 12:20:27 PM EDT
[#6]
I cant think of a difference between the C7's the Royal Marines were shown training with in Oman and our A2's.
However the SAS got C8's and there might be a difference there. [url]www.diemaco.com[/url] lists several of their carbine models coming with 16.1in barrels. That may have been a selection point in the case of the carbines- then they bought the long rifles there too to avoid having two suppliers. Its a interesting thing the barrel lengths on some of the Diemaco carbines. Canada doesnt have a barrel length restriction like the US, and Diemaco is barred from selling in the US. They must think they see a actual difference in the 16in barrel that makes it worth while. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 2:21:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I cant think of a difference between the C7's the Royal Marines were shown training with in Oman and our A2's. However the SAS got C8's and there might be a difference there. [url]www.diemaco.com[/url] lists several of their carbine models coming with 16.1in barrels. That may have been a selection point in the case of the carbines- then they bought the long rifles there too to avoid having two suppliers. Its a interesting thing the barrel lengths on some of the Diemaco carbines. Canada doesnt have a barrel length restriction like the US, and Diemaco is barred from selling in the US. They must think they see a actual difference in the 16in barrel that makes it worth while. As many know, the best quality weapon is not always chosen, maybe Diemaco just made a better offer than Colt. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 2:36:41 PM EDT
[#8]
"Lastly I knew the brit SAS switched from Colt M4/M16s to Diemaco C7s due their superior craftmanship,materials and reliability"
pinco...good to see you over here, too! the brits switched to align themselves with a commonwealth (the sun never sets on the empire, old boy!) supplier. it's pure politics, as the diemaco costs them significantly more money. the quality, give or take a small amount, is about equall. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 7:30:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Humm. Where to begin?
My issue C7. Fit and finish: excellent. Reliability: blanks sucked (blanks were to short and wouldn't feed) : 5.56 FMJ not a jam Ergonomics: good My Colt Sporter. Fit and finish: excellent Reliability: had to replace trigger group before I had 200 rounds through it due to sear not engaging hammer. Since then: not a jam with 5.56. Ergonomics: good If I had to pick one (full auto capability not considered) it wouldn't matter. Except that the C7's now have an Elcan instead of iron like mine did. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 7:41:27 PM EDT
[#10]
I understand the Brit's got a package deal on the C7's that included magazines, spare parts, cleaning kits, service, yadda, yadda, yadda, that made it a good deal. The pricing arrangements makes it hard to do a apples vs apples comparison.
Is the C7 "better"? Its a very good package, I think they just liked that particular configuration better than the previous. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 7:45:02 PM EDT
[#11]
And a good chunk of the British AR fleet was ANCIENT- some of them were approaching 40. Some probably got new uppers for ODS but those were still some pretty old guns.
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Posted: 12/6/2001 7:57:09 PM EDT
[#12]
The C7 family is made in Kitchener, Ontario (CANADA) under license from Colt - the CDN Gov't actually holds the licens not Diemaco.
The C8 has a 14.5" bbl (not 16 no matter what people say)- we had them (14.5) long before the M4. Diemaco is restricted to selling to Ministries of Defence (Canada and Europe), and the RCMP. There are NO civilain sales of these (nor have I been able to steal one yet - bad BOLAND bad [spank]) From my understanding the Brits went with the C7/8's due to the license contract that gave Europe to Diemaco. Diemaco cold hammer forges their barrels - this reportedly gives beter life/tolerance. All the Diemaco wpn I have shot have preformed better than their counterparts (C7-M16A2,C8-M4,C9-Minimi,C6-MAG-58) plus no stupid 3rd Burst trigger I have shot 77gr HSM out of the C7A1's and providing the ELCAN is tight and you do your thing they will be sub MOA guns. My only bitch is the C8 not having the stepped barrel like the M4 - the regualr C8 has the pencil and the HB has not step - as a result you have to use the Diemaco M203 - with in my overly unhumble opnion suffers from an non-user friendly mount (KAC QD all the way) |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 8:12:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Good to see you posting again Boland.
I still want my FN C1A1 back.[V] |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 8:18:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I still want my FN C1A1 back Fine for you - but in 87 when I got in they were pretty thrashed - plus the C7 types are lighter. Shot a suppressed M4 yesterday before we sent it off to a demo - hey life is great! - Striker you need them for the prisons. Out here our guys are using 9mm Colt's but we are trying to get them into the 5.56mm age. - plus the suppressor is necessary if you have to shoot someone, after all you don't want to wake the rest of the cons. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 8:29:58 PM EDT
[#15]
I dont know if its been published specificaly which model carbine the British bought in addition to the C7's. But here is the page from the Catalogue [url]http://www.diemaco.com/sal-Special%20Forces%20Weapon.htm[/url]
Canada might not have been able to afford this type yet for its own troops, but Diemaco does offer it. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 8:46:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Ya mine was getting up there but it still shot good. 6" at 200 meters.
We have both..the 9mm and the .223. Actually we have half a dozen SP-1's in relatively good shape although they are being replaced by A2's. |
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Posted: 12/6/2001 11:08:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Hi CampyBob,
nice to meet you here too ! I see we are almost in the same forums,is not it ? Thanx to everybody for yr replies,appreciated. PP out |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:36:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Boland, about the barrel lenghts, i have always thought all C8 carbines were 14.5". But look at these pictures, doesn´t the barrels on the SFW and SFSW look a little longer than on the C8FTHB, the additional length is said in the specs.
[b]C8FTHB[/b] [img]http://www.diemaco.com/images/sal-c8fthb.gif[/img] [b]C8SFW[/b] [img]http://www.diemaco.com/images/sal-sfw.gif[/img] [b]C8SFSW[/b] [img]http://www.diemaco.com/images/sal-sfsw.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:45:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: The C7's are AR clones and are built to the same exact specs and materials as the American M-4/16's. The Canucks have taken the M16 family and put togather an excellent rifle. Select fire A2 brl A1 Sights Brass deflector Shorter A1 stock End result is a shorter, lighter, more durable and more grunt proof rifle than the M16A3. |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: I cant think of a difference between the C7's the Royal Marines were shown training with in Oman and our A2's. Except the rear sight, the stock, and the trigger group. |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 10:50:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: [b]C8SFW[/b] [img]http://www.diemaco.com/images/sal-sfw.gif[/img] [b]C8SFSW[/b] [img]http://www.diemaco.com/images/sal-sfsw.gif[/img] I want the detachable sight shown in the top pic and the SAW carry handle shown in the bottum pic! |
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Posted: 12/7/2001 11:24:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Tuukka - I guess the SF weapons do have a longer barrel than the C8 and C8HB versions.
AR15Fan - C7's have the A2 stock whoever tells you not is wrong. some earlier ones had CS marked buttstocks - whick were apparently trial versions of a shorter length - this came out of our S,N,L,XL FN buttstock fetish. Trust me I have swapped parts from a A2 just to check. |
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