Does circumcision make sense?

If someone is doing it for the reason of religion (sacrafice to the God or whatever), tradition, cultural/social acceptance, sexual preference or even fetish, then I won't argue against that...

But what I dont get is people who think circumcision is cleaner, hygenic or healthier, as if the foreskin is some kind of defect.

--cleaning:  I can say from experience that you don't need special brush or cotton swab to detail and clean your penis.  Just soap, water and some elbow grease.  This reminds me how you guys joked that if you're a peasant who need to be told not to dump feces into drinking water supply, then AK47 is a great weapon.  If you can't keep your M16 clean, then don't join the military.  Those people who don't want to clean their penis, try having a virgina (in addition to all the nasty infections, the clitoris is literally a miniature glans penis)...

--smegma:  Sebaceous glands secrets sebum--which lubricate the skin and accumulate to be smegma.  It does have a cheese-like faint smell at first, and the odor is accumulative--depends on the indivisual, if the odor becomes strong and obvious, you probably haven't taken shower for days.  When smegma began to resemble cotton cheese, again, it's been a long time since you've washed yourself.  Smegma is not carcinogenic; America Academy of Pediatric stopped recommanding circumcision.  And from what I was told, US doctors don't get paid extra for performing this procedure.

[url]http://www.aap.org/policy/re9850.html[/url]

I think those are awfully poor excuses to mutilate your son's genitals--if it ain't broken, dont fix it.  If I ever have a son, I might leave his penis to himself (and I don't mean it in a sexual way [:D])

many of you have more experience regarding infants, what're your opinions?

(edited so it's more readable)

I'd let the Doc do it.

Girls like a "clean-shaven" man.

Discovery or TLC just had a special on about this.  It turns out that those who are uncircumcised are several times more at risk to contract AIDs or any STD than those who are circumcised.  This is due to the inside layer of the foreskin being very thin which allows the viruses a way into the body.

They did tests and a biopsey on a fresh foreskin from someone who was circumcised.  They exposed it to AIDs, then dyed the cells.  The results were no AIDs cells were able to get through the skin on the outside but the inside skin practically absorbed the virus, into 3 different types of cells, that's 2 more typs of cells than what the doctors thought would happen.

So if you plan on screwing around with a lot of different people, this is something you might want to consider.  

There're certinaly some medical reasons for circumcsion, but does this mean if you're circumcised, you can screw around unprotected more because you're less likely to get AIDS? [:D]  Yippeee!

My son, if I have one, can always circumcise his penis later (or let a doctor do it) if he convert to jewish... [8D]

One other thing I heard is that Victorians believe circumcise their sons can prevent masturbation--discuss.

Some people do find it more asthetically pleasing.  There are some studies that show that there are less STDs and and increase in cervical disease rates of women. Not to mention the hygiene issue.  The problem is that the foreskin will provide a safe harbor for bacteria and viruses even if they are not absorbed by the person.  Its moist and provides safety until they can transfer to a female.  

As for having it done when the child is older. Its major surgery requiring anesthsia after a certain age.  I had it done when I was in grade shcool and I could remember it.  Even little babies have erections and boy did it hurt. Do your kid a favor and get it done when its easy and when its a minor procedure.

It's easy to think the foreskin as dirty and traps bacteria and virus..., but there're two school of thoughts.  Does the medical benefit so signficant as to constitute this procedure?

[url]http://www.nocirc.org/[/url]

A friend of mine had to do the procedure twice, and he seems to remember the second one.  It's a long way til I have a family, so I still have a lot of time to change my mind.  If my future son decided to do it later in life, he better have a damn good reason for it since it'll be a major procedure--the effort tends to outweight the benefit...

Just don't circumsize the daughter, they really will resent you.

Tribes in Africa do clitoral removal, the female circumcision.


Male circumcision was done PRIMARILY to discourage masturbation. Also it reduces sensitivity in the penis. Meaning, those guys with the turtleneck dongs are enjoying sex more than the rest.

I have heard and read that women who have uncircumcised partners have higher rates of cervical cancer, still don't know how true that is. I have also heard that most European mean are uncircumcised and don't enjoy blowj**s as much, don't know and don't care if that is true , BUT, it must suck to be them if it is huh.

Personally I had all four of my sons done and there have been no bad effects to them.

I was going to edit my post again to add something about an UN conference in New York on circumcision that was to be rescheduled due to the 9-11 attack.

But now we're talking about female circumcision.  I think there're some classification on what types--from trimming off the "hood" to complete removal of vulva.  The one I know is the removal of the hood on the clitoris (penis foreskin's female counterpart).  Is it true that in the US, female circumcision (which types?) is legally called "female genital mutilation" and it is banned?

Nope.
 All three have bleeding disorders.
 Not a good thing to do when you will bleed like a stuck pig.
 But aside from that, I still wouldn't do it.  There is no reason.  With proper maintenance that you teach at a young age, your problems will be as minimal as your unhooded brothers.

The consent form for circumcision warns of various risks, including "mutilation".  I figure that I can teach my son (if/when I have one) that screwing every skirt he sees is risky, and to just go after women he actually cares about -- who should be decent enough sorts that diseases aren't a major worry.

All this AIDS hype has really screwed people up;  it just plain isn't a concern if you (1) aren't gay, and (2) select your partners with reasonable care.  For people who are still terrified, (3) get each other tested and demand to see the results.  There are "home" mail-in test kits available that you can get the results from in a week.

Yep.

I elected to spare my two sons from circumcision. Don't really see the need--medical
or otherwise.
It really is all about religion--just as  
frivolous as a Doberman needs his ears to be 'cropped' to be a Doberman. That's fine-for dogs...

Not happy with my parents doing it to me, but oh well,"that's just how things were done" back then, so the grudge didn't linger.

I don't want my sons to feel the same about me.

I do believe that some sexual
sensation is permanently lost with the removal of the foreskin tissue. I read a medical report where it was found that foreskin tissue is highly sensitive with many nerves pertaining to sexual functions.

It is no secret that for centuries Christianity considers masturbation(and sex for pleasure) a vulgarity. Punishment was harsh if caught in the
old days.
The primary motive and encouragement for circumcision has existed to simply attempt to
deprive the individual from his own bodily pleasure--just
like the tribes in Africa who perform clitorectomies on young girls to this day.
Thepretext used was that it is just prudent to do it for medical reasons relating to hygiene.

I don't buy it. There are
billions of uncircumcised men living today in third world substandard conditions. Smegma might well be a commodity sold by the kilo, but of all the medical problems, nothing even
remotely tops the lists that can be
attributed to the presence of the foreskin.
Go figure THAT one.

Use your own judgment--you're almost always better off.

So guys that haven't been nipped can bust a nut when something brushes against their pecker - big deal.  My "Ernst: thundering rod of destruction" - is plenty sensitive as is [:D]

Seriously, it's a personal choice thing. I would, however, think that in austere conditions, you would be able to keep yourself at least a bit less funky if you were snipped.  When I'm sweaty and nasty, I'm not too "fresh" down there to start out with - don't need more sweaty folds of skin down around my crotch.  Don't know since I had my mudflap removed shortly after birth.

Soon after my son was cut (newborn), the top portion of the "shaft" skin was growing into the "helmet" skin - had to separate it - twice - he howled!  Iced it, lots of hugs and kisses (no, not kissing his pecker, you pervs), ect.  Have jokingly told him that story a few times and commented to him "aren't you glad I put you through that torture son - look at that, you've got a fine grade "A" pecker that any man would be proud of!!". [:D]

Tate

Of course I would circumcise my son.
1.Covenent of God with Abraham.
2.More hygenic.
3.Chick are grossed out by the "turtleneck".

I had a freind from the Balkans when I was younger and while at a party he paired off with a girl and a minute later she came out with a pale look on her face.He comes out and says "what's wrong with it?".I wondered what was up so I asked my girlfriend to ask her what was wrong and she said that she was grossed out by his uncircumcised tweeter.

Don't sabotage your man child's ability to get some "rooting" done.

No.

I'd do it.  My step father developed "problems" with his when he was around 40 years old.  IIRC, it was not a simple ordeal to go through.  That, and I vividly remember seeing the neat little plastic pylon shaped thingy he had to run into the end of his penis twice a day, it didn't look like any fun to me.  

I've heard some women say that the uncircumsized members lack "personality".....

Just my .02

sopmop said it,I've met a few whenches who do not like to eat the turtleneck,(gladitisnot),I would not knowing this, deny my male offspring any'ed.[:|]

The 'turtleneck' guys can't be enjoying sex more than I am. Hell, if I was enjoying sex more than I am now, I'd never leave the house!

Eric The(AndThenHowCouldIAffordExpensiveHobbies?)Hun[>]:)]

Absolutely not.

I faced this dilemma last year when my 1st was born.  In the end, I decided to leave it alone and here's why:
[list][*] He's not Jewish.  The only religious reason to do it that I know of is as sopmodm4 said "Covenant of God with Abraham".  But I believe this is a Jewish custom and not a Christian custom.[/*]
[*]Started for all the wrong reasons.  As SteyrAUG said, the primary reason it began in the Western culture was because it was believed to prevent masturbation.  When I'm sick, I don't "bleed" myself, because we know better now.[/*]
[*] Not that big a difference on health concerns.  Just like gun statistics, they can be skewed to support an opinion.  They'll say "your twice as likely to get cancer/infection/STD".  What that means is 1% for circumcised, 2% for not.  Not really a glaring difference.[/*]
[*] Socially acceptable.  This is the single biggest reason parents do it.  Either they want their kid to fit in in the school locker room, or they want them to be "like daddy".  Well, if it was trendy to hack off your pinky, would you do that?  Not me.  And just because I was chopped, doesn't mean my son need be as well.  Matter of fact, these days the last reason I want to do something is because it's socially acceptable.[/*]
[*] Quite frankly, it's natural and serves it's purpose.  I don't really [i]need[/i] pinky toes, but I'm not gonna cut em off so it's easier to clean between my toes.[/*][/list]

There's lots of information out there on the internet about this.  However, keep an open mind and take everything with a grain of salt.  The pro-crowd can make it seem like you'll never get laid and die of some disease if you don't get circumcised.  The anti-crowd makes it seem like a life-traumatizing event that will make your kid become a serial killer or something if you get it done.  Consider all the reasons pro and con and then look to yourself for the answer.

I still have my doubts about not having it done.  I do worry about how other kids might tease him or whether he'll have any sort of medical problems.  However, if need be, it can be done later if I/he chooses.  It's harder and more painful, but at least he can decide for himself when the time is right.  As a parent, I know it's my responsibility to make certain decisions for my child.  But I also like to take the path that leaves possibility for his own judgments, again when the time is right.

LL

my parents had it down to me when i was born i dont know. now i can safely say i have seen almost every kind of topic on this board

My boy will have an A2 flashhider just like his daddy.

Well, if chopping off part of your kid's dick makes him more popular, it's a good idea.

What should we chop off of our daughters?

I guess, but I have two friends who are uncircumcised, and both have ripped their foreskins during vigorous sex, and they also say that having it is a big chick turn-off.  One actually got circumcised as an adult and he's never bitched about it not being as good.  So, they may enjoy it more, but I enjoy it just fine and don't have to worry about ripping my skin.  Then again, one of my best friends has a Prince Albert (a ring running through the urethra to the head of the penis) and several didos (steel bars run horizontally and vertically through the head of the penis) and he says that it makes sex much better for him as well as his wife, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go accessorizing down there.

My nephew was circumcised and the intern that did it botched the job badly.  It was red and swolen for over a week before it finally healed.  My wife didn't want to have it done to our son after seing how badly the nephew's went.  But, we talked it over and her OBGYN said he'd take care of it and he had never had a problem with any of the boys he had done.  The fact that he was jewish put me at ease. [:D]My 8 month old was circumcized, and he slept through the whole procedure.  The hospital tried to sneak him off and have one of the staff do it, but we demanded that my wife's OBGYN do it and gave specific orders that no one else was to attempt it on our child.  The wife's OBGYN did the procedure with a local anasthetic, and there were no problems whatsoever.  Virtually no swelling, and just the slightest hint of redness.  It was healed in 3 days and there have been no problems.  You just have to make sure you follow your doctor's instructions, which consist of keeping it clean and keeping the sking from reataching.

God Bless Texas

but it shortens the overall length of the erection.....Im small enough as it is Im glad my parents didnt have me circumcized..and I love getting a blow job....

It's amazing that people still condone ritual mutilation. No good reason for cutting off a perfectly good part of your body, much less from your penis. If you are a religious freak then I guess you gotta do what you gotta do, but really, it's barbaric. I've had plenty of nookie and I've never had a girl complain or freak out because I had foreskin. Unfortunately this is a issue that will be decided on everything except facts and more on whether the dad is cut or not. I've had this conversation with many friends and the dads want their boys penis to look like dad's penis, regardless of the facts "If mutilation was good for me, it's fine for the boy", OK whatever. I hear same lame reasons like it's cleaner, uh huh, they invented a thing called soap, wash your pecker with it, it keeps it clean, cut or not. Then there is the locker-room thing - I played football and wrestled in high school and was in the USMC so had plenty of  shower-room exposure and never been called on it. In the end you are gonna do what you want to do but male circumcision makes as much sense as female circumcision.

Interesting question.  I've never thought about it.  We have no children now, but I'd let my wife and her friends make that decision.  I have a few women friends with whom I'd trust that question...and get an honest answer.  You know, some female who'd answer with complete honesty: "which do you prefer, cut or covered?"  I don't want the answer to be based on what their husband has, or what a good girl is supposed to want.  I don't want that "how would I know," or "what's a foreskin"  BS either.

Maybe it's a dumb man-position, but I think the question is left for females to answer.

Am I taking this too seriously?

My nephew had to have it done when he was a teenager. It was so painful that he was out of commision for a week. Get it done at birth while it's still painless and they won't have to worry about it the rest of their life.

Edited to say he had to have it done for medical reasons.

Unless the circumsicion is botched then they will have to deal with it for the rest of their life. I know of 2 friends kids that have had a "botched" cut and is constantly having problems. But of course they had to look just like daddy, which I thought was extremely stupid since the daddies weren't even religious.
I might not agree with it but I can understand making the cut for serious religious beliefs but to do just for looks is beyond belief.

Either that or they just cum a lot sooner.[img]www.siegis.com/button%20Fine%20Bratwurst.jpg[/img]

I have to agree with this.  I had to get it done when I was in 2nd grade because of a serious bladder infection.  The recovery process was unpleasant.  The foreskin is nothing but problems, so do your son a favor and have your doctor take care of your son's right when he's born.

Warning: Graphic link!

http://www.infocirc.org/fourn.htm

My motto is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
This poor child had a circumcision go very very wrong.

In my psych class we learned about a kid whose parents had him cut at birth. Little problem, the Dr. had the iron thing that they use turned on too high and it incinerated the poor little guy's winkie. Dr. tried to make it easy on the kid so, after consulting the partents, did surgery to turn the kid into a girl. Well, the kid had major sexual identity probs growing up and is now in his late 20's or 30's and is getting changed back to a guy. [shock]

[>Q] I'll teach hygene before allowing the possibility of this! [>Q]

What was surprising about the 1991 German movie titled [i][b]Europa, Europa[/b][/i] was the apparent European misconception that [b]only[/b] Jews circumcise their sons. I suppose that must be the way it is in Europe even today, but in the United States it was done routinely in most hospitals back in those days.

Islamic law also requires circumcision of all male infants. Period.

I think it's a health matter, mostly, with just a twinge of religious aspect rolled into it!

If I had a son, I'd insist that it be done for several reasons, not the least of which would be to look like 'daddy.'

Eric The(Besides,It'sAnAmerican-kindOfThing!)Hun[>]:)]

lol...thats a good one

Out of curiosity, what do you guys think of the informed consent angle?

That is, the perspective that an infant, through lack of age and understanding, is not really consenting to this surgical procedure, but will have to live with the consequences.

Obviously, parents have the right to dictate the medical care of their children.  But does this right extend to procedures such as male circumcision, which is rarely medically necessary?  Or should the child have the right to wait until an age where he can make this decision for himself?

I am not really advancing an opinion on this one way or the other, but I have heard this argument and am curious about what you think.

I do not mean to cause offense, but I have heard this argument before, and for the life of me, I cannot understand it.  I did not grow up staring at my father's penis and I fail to understand why I should have focused on this as a cause of difference when there were a hundred other differences between him and me (such as height, weight, build, complexion, facial hair growth, baldness, pot belly, etc.)  In fact, I fail to understand why I was supposed to be just like daddy, anyway.  I had a family resemblance to him, which was enough for me and everyone else.  I inherited his big nose, certainly one feature where I did not want to be "just like daddy" [>(]

Again, this is not to cause offense, but can you elaborate on what you mean by this, and why it is so important?

Not sure if this is correct, I thought that Muslim males were circumcised when they were pre-teens.  I could be wrong.

Maybe BinLaden is just pissed because he got cut short of the american dream

Just posting some pointers...:

-sebaceous gland constantly secrets sebum--like the ones on your scalp.  An hour of sweaty workout is not going to make your penis sweat "all nasty" like your sweat glands.

-American Academy of Pediatric fell back to a more netrual position on cirumcision by not recommanding it.  The American Medical Assoc, The American Cancer Society (on grounds that the procedure prevents cancer) support the recommandatoin.  [url]http://www.nocirc.org/position/[/url]  The medical reasons for doing it seem a little sketchy.

-Like someone alrady stated, the root of circumcision is based on religous ritual or false medical belief (prevents cancer, masturbation, etc).  I think this practice has more to do w/ social, cultural and sexual than medical.

-hygen:  Oral hygen is an acquired habit, why would you not want to wash your own reproductive organ?  If you can clean a circumcised penis (preferably your very own), you'll have no problem cleaning an intact one--I wouldn't even compare it to cleaning between toes.

GodBlessTexas, you said it yourself [:)], if the alleged benefit of a penis ring is better sex, you still wouldn't go through the trouble to do it (I wouldn't either).  Same w/ circumcision.  Would you pierce the penis if it is done at infancy and he won't remember the pain--it's a very simple procedure and everyone has it! [:D]

btw, that story told earlier, I'm just glad the girl didn't came out the room screaming after seeing the turtleneck... [:D]

No.....I am and my son is.....but if I knew what i know today I would have forbidden it.........don`t let these people who are jokers lead you on...it is a serious issue......if you need, e-mail and I will put you in touch with some serious info.......Don`t do it.........without some serious investigation!...........

You know.......I CANNOT believe some of the responses by some real ASSHOLES who post on this board................WHO OBVIOUSLY DON`T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT AT ALL..........[flame]

I'm usually too squeamish to look at pix of circumcision..., that link posted by Hannah_Reitsch just made me mad.  Why do the parents have to make a decision, risking potential infection and complication, whether to have a surgical procedure performed (by someone who may not be a doctor) on their infant's genital, on reasons of:

-it may or may not have medical, hygenic benefit.

-cultural/social norm.

I won't argue if circumcision is done because of religion or tradition; but I found those passages using Bible Gateway search, in NKJV:

"This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant." -- Genesis 17:10-12

"Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2  

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." -- Galatians 5:6

in NIV

"12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.
13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.
14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation." -- Galatian 6:12-15

[url]http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?search=circumcise+circumcision&SearchType=OR&version=NIV&restrict=&StartRestrict=&EndRestrict=&language=english[/url]

This has got to be one of the wierdest fucking topics yet.  I keep waiting for the punch-line...

[>:/]

I ain't cutting a dick for Jesus...That's sick man.