[size=4]12 Killed in Jerusalem Blast[/size=4]

By Jason Keyser
Associated Press Writer
Saturday, December 1, 2001; 9:12 PM

JERUSALEM –– Two suicide bombers detonated nail-studded explosives in a downtown Jerusalem pedestrian mall crowded with young weekend revelers Saturday. The blasts killed the assailants and 10 bystanders and wounded 150 people.

Minutes after the back-to-back suicide bombings, another bomb went off in a car parked nearby, sending panicked, screaming pedestrians running in all directions.

Eyewitness Eli Shetreet, said he saw bodies being hurled in the air. "A lot of people were crying, falling, and there was the smell of burning hair," said Shetreet, 19.

The attacks – coming after a week in which seven Israelis were killed in other incidents – increased pressure on the Palestinian Authority to take decisive action against militants groups waging a terror campaign against Israel and caused Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to cut short a U.S. visit, according to an aide.

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres said it was "one of the worst (attacks) we have ever seen."

There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but the militant Hamas and Islamic Jihad groups have threatened to carry out attacks in Israel to avenge the killing of Hamas' military leader in the West Bank in an Israeli missile attack last week.

In a statement, the Palestinian Authority condemned the terror attacks, expressing its "deep anger ... and pain" and accusing those behind it of trying to derail a U.S. peace initiative. The Palestinian Authority has said that in recent days it has arrested several militants.

Israel has charged that Yasser Arafat's government bears responsibility for the attacks against it by doing little to rein in the radicals. Israeli Cabinet minister Dan Meridor said Israel was "tired of words... (Arafat) needs to take action immediately now because this cannot continue."

U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni said in a statement that he had spoken to Arafat and "made absolutely clear that those responsible for planning and carrying out these attacks must be found and brought to justice. This is an urgent task and there can be no delay nor excuses for not acting decisively."

Zinni, a retired Marine Corps general, arrived here last week, hoping to secure a cease-fire. He has said he would stay in the region as long as it takes.

In a statement issued from his retreat in Camp David, Md., President Bush said he was horrified by the bombings and issued a strong admonition to Arafat to fight terrorism with actions and not just words.

"I strongly condemn them as acts of murder that no person of conscience can tolerate and no cause can ever justify. On behalf of the American people I extend my deepest sympathy and condolences to the families of the victims and my friend Prime Minister Sharon and to all the people of Israel," Bush said.

The bombs went off around 11:30 p.m. Saturday, an hour when the Ben Yehuda mall is usually crowded with young people strolling and sitting at sidewalk cafes. The bombers were standing about 30 yards from each other, police said.

"There were lots of limbs and dead bodies," said Michael Perry, 37, who ran out of a bar along the pedestrian mall after hearing the explosions. "I saw three dead and what looked like the remains of the suicide bomber. It was just a lump of something," Perry said.

- continued -

The blasts were so powerful that they shattered the windows of cars parked a block away. Blood was splattered across store fronts, and bits of flesh and metal bolts from the explosives were strewn on the ground.

Patrons of cafes huddled indoors, behind closed doors. A young man and woman sitting in the corner of one cafe held on to each other. Teen-age girls and boys were screaming and crying into mobile phones, talking to their parents, trying to find their friends in the chaos.

Shortly after the suicide bombings, an explosion went off in a car parked near the mall, said Police Chief Mickey Levy. Apparently no one was hurt in that explosion. At the sound of the third explosion, pedestrians ran up the street in a panic.

Police spokesman Gil Kleiman said 10 people were killed and 150 were wounded, many of people in their late teens and 20s. Among the wounded were several in very serious condition.

"This is a great catastrophe. There are many, many casualties," said Health Minister Nissim Dahan, who was touring area hospitals. "We are almost at the limit of our capacity to take in the wounded."

The Ben Yehuda mall is usually packed with young Israelis on Saturday evening. The mall has been the target of suicide attacks in the past, including in 1997.

Just up the block, on the corner of King George and Jaffa streets, a suicide bomber blew himself up last summer in a crowded pizzeria, killing himself and 15 diners.

An Israeli official traveling with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in New York, speaking on condition on anonymity, said Sharon was cutting short his planned five-day visit to the United States. Sharon's meeting with President Bush, which had been planned for Monday, was being rescheduled for Sunday at noon, and the premier would return to Israel immediately after that, the official said.

Fighting that broke out some 14 months ago has killed 781 on the Palestinian side and 213 on the Israeli side.

In recent days Israeli forces surrounded Nablus and Jenin, two of the main autonomous Palestinian towns in the West Bank, in an effort to prevent more attacks.

Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip, did not claim responsibility on behalf of the group, but said Hamas would continue carrying out attacks.

"We have said several times that we are not going to accept the occupation to remain in our land," Rantisi said. "We are fighting Jewish terrorism, we are fighting the killers and defending our freedom, our stability and our dignity."

Earlier Saturday, two Palestinians, ages 11 and 19, were killed near the West Bank town of Jenin in what doctors said was Israeli machine gun fire. The 11-year-old and other youngsters had been throwing stones and a homemade sound bomb at soldiers, witnesses said. The 19-year-old was a passenger in a taxi.

The army said troops returned fire at armed Palestinians, wounding two. Shortly after that, two explosive devices were activated near the troops. The army said it knew nothing about youngsters being in the area.

See article at: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43963-2001Dec1.html[/url]

Eric The(AndSoItContinues...)Hun[>]:)]

How much more must the Jews endure before they rid Israel of those Palestinian animals?[):)]

Lord knows!

Eric The(AndIMeanThatSincerely!)Hun[>]:)]

This could be important.

Someone should have rid the world of Yasser Arafat and his cohorts a long time ago.

When you consider that the population of the United States is 284.5 million, and that of Israel is 6.4 million, including its Arab population, then Israel, during the past 12 months of the renewed [i][b]Intifada[/b][/i], has suffered a 'Sept 11'-proportional attack every three months.

And yet our leaders cry out 'Give Peace a Chance' to the Sharon government.

The United States is presently taking apart the Taliban government of Afghanistan because it harbored terrorists who (1) attacked the US, and (2) refused to hand them over.

This is right and just.

Why cannot Israel follow our example? The so-called 'Palestinian Authority' permits Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and similar terrorist groups to operate openly within its boundaries, without any hindrance. The Palestinian television and radio stations, under the guidance and control of the 'P.A.' continue to broadcast the most virulent anti-Israeli and pro-terrorism crap from extremist 'holy men' without letup.

I believe it's time to drive the Palestinians back into the desert from whence they came. The desert is also known as 'Jordan' to some, but it still remains basically the same desert that Abraham wandered through four thousand years ago on his way to the Holy Land.

Meanwhile the Israelis have turned their part of that great desert into an oasis.

Eric The('Zion'ToMeComprisesAllOfKingDavid'sKingdom)Hun[>]:)]

Geo. W. Bush Jr. is going to have tough shoes to fill from his pledge to fight all terrorism. The problem defies solution when people on both sides are both standing their ground.

... I wouldn't blame Israel for taking over the Gaza Strip. Preservation of civility must be defended. They have a right to rid their world of terrorists as well as us.  

WAIT.....SLOW THE TOPIC DOWN.....

This is an important topic, and is not one in which any of us should should take lightly. This  could have a major impact on the way that we live our life. -- The outside possibility is that many Americans could be spending the first part of their adult life defending borders of Isreal (think draft)...This includes my 3 and 5 year old sons.

Condemning "The Palestinians" is ignorant and doesn't lead anywhere - Speak against the current leadership -- but this is a VERY, VERY old conflict with many different viewpionts.  

I have listened to this conflict very carefully during the last few years and it scares me to death.  Retoric is not something that is needed even if it make us feel better.  

I would rather ask the question:  How would you solve this conflict if you had the choice?  

[peep]
I have my fireproof underwear waiting...[flame]

Thanks for posting the information Eric, My internet service has been down and I haven't had the chance.

I have to agree with 'Maynard'.  We are staging a revolution in Afghanistan because the sitting government let Al Qaida operate within its borders.

Hmm.

The Israelis have had the problem much much longer than we have yet every time they flex their muscle they get chastized.  

This is hypocrisy.  I think Bush is a decent, honest man and I support him for many things.  I wish he would back off of Israel and let them govern themselves though.

The problem is the use of terrorism as a means for negotiation.  When a group engages in terrorism they forgoe other rights, such as the right to live.

The Phillistines were condemned by God in the old testament. David was charged with wiping them out, but fell short. And to this day they are a thorn in the side of God's chosen people.

Well stated sir...Most others just don't seem to understand the full picture.

The "Spirit" of this Country has guided us to align ourselves with Israel for a reason...or to be everlasting DAMNED!!!

I realize that emotions run high on either side of this debate,However we must stay focused and let that "Spirit" guide our President. (As I believe is the case)

Now don't get me wrong, I feel that this Admin. is not acting as strong in Israel's favor as perhaps "I" would. But,alas I must bite my lips at time...Knowing that Our Creator has the Time Table under "HIS" Jurisdiction.

As for our childrens future and possibly dieing defending Israel's border...This globe of ours is litterd with Dead American Soldiers...If I could pick and choose for my Son's...Let it be here or Israel...Better than stinking $hit holes like Vietnam,Somalia,Croatia...You get the picture!!!

P.S. I Salute and praise all our fighting Men & Women who have died for this Country no matter what part of this Globe that they spilled thier blood.

Yeah, just believe everything the media puts out.

You all don't know if these bombers were
junkies the mossad caught, gave them some dope, slapped a bomb on them, and sent them into the crowds.

Now that we are over there kickin ass and takin names, they are itchin to get into the fracas.

Don't put it pass the leadership there, to be lookin for MO MONEY to beef up their psuedo defenses.

Waterdog

huh..........? Well, that gets my vote for conspiracy theory of the year.............

Getting a little testy eh...
Howz 'bout you and I go out to the desert for a little shoot!!!

I'll be using a target of Yasser Are-He-Fat...And You of Peter Jennings (Oh Please,pretty please) [:D]

Post from VA-gunnut -

Now we have the classic dilemma, which came first, the 'Oppressed' Palestinian or the 'Aggressive' Palestinian?

You might want to rephrase that to 'if folks here had to live in penetentiaries the way convicts do, you would probably be a criminal too. You don't hear of all the thing they are subjected to in the name of 'incarceration.''

I believe the 'Aggressor' Palestinian came first, see, e.g. the War of 1948. Now ever since then, the Palestinians have been trying to force their way back into Israel.

Some would say they're just trying to reoccupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which lands were lost, [u]not[/u] by the Palestinians, but by the sovereign countries of Jordan and Egypt, respectively.

So all this bloodshed would suddenly end if the tiny State of Israel simply handed the lands that it won by conquest over to the Palestinians, not Jordan or Egypt, but to a group of people who never had it in the first place!

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! What that would mean is that there was no bloodshed in the Holy Land prior to the Israeli occupation of these two areas in 1967, and we [b]know[/b] that that's not true. Israel's short history has been nothing but one war or conflict after another.

Giving back these lands to people who never had them is simply not the answer for Israel.

And for right now, it pretty much looks as if they're the ones who have the power to decide the issue!

Eric The('NationsTrembled'WhenTheyHeardTheNameOfKingDavid-AndThey[u]Still[/u]Do!)Hun[>]:)]

Maynard,

You stated: "We will never know peace until we kill those people, until we kill them all."

All of them? How many do you think this is?  Do you only kill those Palestinians in the Middle East, or do you go throughout the world killing all Palestinians, Arabs and others that support their cause? Do you only kill those in the territory currently owned by Israel?  

Maybe those of us with "weak stomachs" would be able to stomach it if you could help us with the kill them all part?

Remember, if we "unleash" the Israelis (as you stated) the US will be drawn into a Middle East/North African regional conflict to defend Israel.

**from Farzaneh (Nazy) Roudi -- policy analyst at the Population Reference Bureau:  Over the past 50 years, the Middle East and North Africa region (MENA) experienced the highest rate of population growth of any region in the world. The total population increased from around 100 million in 1950 to around 380 million in 2000 - an addition of 280 million people in 50 years. During this period the population of the MENA region increased 3.7 times, more than any other major world region.***

We have three bad ingredience in this:

Religion, Land, Ethnicity.

Killing them ALL IS A SOLUTION, but an ignorant one in my opinion.

Forcing the Parisians out of the Israeli borders is on thing, killing them all is yet another.

Jeff (NotVotingMaynardPresident) Allen

The Arabs have to push now, every year that goes by now Russia becomes a bigger and bigger player in world oil markets.  And they then loose their leverage over the US.  If they were to call for a embargo now, all it would do is cause them a huge chunk of market share that they will never regain.

I agree with Hawkeye1.

The bombing of civilians is not appropriate in any resistance fighing.   This does nothing but cause terror.

Civilian casualities are a problem in any "war", but the targeting of civilians should not an option.

[%(]

I know Clinton actually beleved that he could "make a deal" and bring Middle East peace, because in his world there are no absolute positions- everything was up for compromise for a greater or lesser price.

However, the Bush Admin position seems rather that they are giving the Palistinians all the rope they want to hang themselves (callously risking Jewish lives in the process) because the biggest obstical to dealing with Arab terrorism is the public opinion on the street in US and Western Europe which came to see the Palistinians et al. as "victims" of European colonialism, rather than the backward barbarians they really are.

In spite of the great gift of sitting on so much wealth in the form of oil, in the 50+ years since the nations of the region have been liberated from being colonies of England, or France or Italy, what have they done to improve themselves? Instead they have fought each other and fought Isreal and squandered billions.  They have no one to blame but themselves.  And I thing this is what the Bush Admin is trying to lay bare, and throught that remove any public support in the West for the Arab/Palistinian position.

I believe two things should happen immediately.

One, the Palestinian Authority should hunt down, arrest, try and pass capital judgement on the leaders and organizers of the organization that encouraged and facilitated the bombings, as well as any other 'non-military' resistance to the Israeli occupation. If they cannot or will not, then perhaps the U.N., who started this mess to begin with, or Britain, who dumped it in the U.N.'s lap, should do so.

Two, Ariel Sharon should be tried for crimes against humanity in the Hague, both for the Lebanon massacres (which an Israeli court decided they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute a popular military and political hero)and the present impasse which has led to a 4-1 ratio of Palestinian to Israeli deaths in the past year+. Which, I'll remind you, began when Sharon, despite the advice of many moderates and doves in Israel, intentionally 'desecrated' (whatever that means) the Temple Mount to instigate the Palestinian uprising and facilitate his return to political power.

Neither side is innocent, and both should pay in full the price of the innocent blood shed to advance their political agendas. To quote Shakespeare, "A pox on both houses."

Thank you for illustrating the problem we face in the West perfectly Tachyon.  Apathy tinged with anti-semitism.

"A pox on both their houses" will not however solve the problem.  The Northern Alliance makes heroin, but we still sided with them and achieved results.  Only unequivically siding with one side and crushing the other will solve this issue.

In a world of polar opposites, you would do well.

It amuses me that whenever I am critical of Israel or an Israeli, the canard of 'anti-semitic' pops up. Please enlighten me concerning what part of my statement was both untrue and anti-semitic. Since we're slinging epithets, I think you're a knee-jerk slave of the post WWII Holocaust guilt complex. Luckily, neither my opinion of you, nor your opinion of me make a difference in the final analysis.

I respect Jewish culture and I find the majority of people who criticise Jews to be doing so out of envy. I also find that most of those who aren't Jewish who defend them are doing so out of either/both guilt AND envy.

As in all things political, I do not trust political Zionism, just as I distrust political U.S. Patriotism, political German National Socialism or Russian political Communism. The last 'political' leader I would say I trust would have to be Leonidas, and that only because he died "in harness", so to speak. Political animals have no compassion, because they don't live or breathe or bleed like real people do.

I assure you that I am not apathetic toward this issue. Israel exists in a hostile world, and the Israeli politicians have a fine line to walk. On one side are the Israeli people, who want what everyone wants; peace, freedom and security. On the other side are other countries, including the U.S. who have their own agendas and to whom the peace, freedom and security of the individual Israeli mean virtually nothing. To make things even worse, they also are based on a religion, and the Rabbinical councils have a large influence on their government. What is an Israeli politician to do?

That said, the Palestinians have the same problem, only they don't have the U.S. pumping $3B a year in combined military/economic aid into their country.

I have a very specific problem with the 'kill all the Arab animals' solution to the problem. It's what Hitler said when he systematically set out to commit genocide against the Jewish people, only he said "Jews" in place of "Arabs".

Edited to say: I don't have a solution to the problems in Israel and the Middle East, but I won't turn my back on the wrongs of our allies just because they're our allies.

Wow thats a first, usually I am being criticized for practicing "moral equivilancy"

There are no polar opposits, yet the country still has to act. So you have to pick the lesser of two evils and ACT like its a polar opposite.  Once the situation is reduced from a trilateral to a bilateral situation you can deal with what you dont like in the other party.

Isreal is a free market democracy with a advanced economy and great prospects for development if there were peace.  They are for all intents and purposes a European country apart from their religion.  Given this how could anyone support the case of a despot (Arafat) supported by more despots (Syria, Iraq, yes even Saudi Arabia) who have done far more to bankrupt and impoverish the Arab world than Isreal ever has.  Any Westerner who thinks Isreal ought to be abandoned and left to hang either doesn't think, is a neurotic wollowing in self hate, or is cursed by antisemitism.

And since you fly a Christian white supremicist emblem on your sig Tachyon I just put two and two togeather.  Either one alone wouldnt have been enough for me to diss you- I recognise that a lot of people with ancestors who fought for the Confederacy like to show it- but combined with your comments it became suspicious.  From your reply it looks like I hit close to the mark.

Maynard,

I don't have ANY problem with this statement:

As for your question: We let Israel do whatever they need to do to secure their State.

If that means the destruction of Palestinian people so be it. They seem very adept at dying, why don't we let Israel help them along instead of calling for restraint.

I do have a problem with the earlier statement that you made!

You first stated: "We will never know peace until we kill those people, until we kill them all."

There's a HUGE difference between the statement.
It is also a statement that I can agree with....

Jeff(FeelingBetter)Allen

I know some of you don't believe in the Christian bible.  For those of you that do, recall that there will be no peace in that land until the antichrist comes along and secures a peace agreement.  This agreement will specify seven years but will be broken half way through.  

I watched Klinton with amusement while he worked to do the antichrist's job.  Proof that liberals, no matter what BS they sell during elections, have no concept of christianity and possess no relationship with Christ.  I am not villifying people who don't.  I am merely pointing out that liberals try to sell themselves to unknowing, undecided voters dishonestly.  

In 2000, Gore was asked what his favorite bible quote was.  After a little faltering, he replied John 16:3 (obviously getting John 3:16 backwards)  

Here's John 16:3:
"They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

That's what happens when a nonbeliever tries to fool a believer.

My favorite Clinton-gaff was when he said at some peace conference, somewhere - 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit the earth.'

What a moron that guy was!

Eric The(IGuessHeCouldn'tBringHimselfToSay'ForTheyShallBeCalledTheChildrenOfGod'!)Hun[>]:)]

Like we did with Castro?



I agree.



I have never suggested that Israel be abandoned. What I've suggested is that it be held to the same standards that 'european' nations are held to.



If this is what you call 'close to the mark', then I'd like you to be my scorer at the next highpower match. I'd love to come home with a 500-50x.

You are demonstrating both prejudice and it's underlying problem: ignorance. You can overcome both if you're willing to try.

Try these links for a little education on what the Confederacy felt about race and religion:

[url]members.aol.com/awill84810/links5.htm[/url]
[url]www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/3843/blackconfed.htm[/url]
[url]www.jewish-history.com/civilwar.htm[/url]

and a little quote from the second link:

The first military monument in the US Capitol that honors an African-American soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington National cemetery. The monument was designed 1914 by Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish Confederate. Who wanted to correctly portray the “racial makeup” in the Confederate Army. A black Confederate soldier is depicted marching in step with white Confederate soldiers. Also shown is one “white soldier giving his child to a black woman for protection”.- source: Edward Smith, African American professor at the American University, Washington DC.

Now the bodycount of the "piguim" (terrorists attacks) in Israel has risen to 26 and more than 200 wounded.
With an US enovoyee there to see with his own eyes what Arafat is promising and what is really doing.
Because, sirs, this is the main issue: when he is speaking in English is telling one thing, when he is speaking in Arab he tells another one. I remind you, sirs, that up to now Arafat & Co. imprisoned, put on trial and executed with inusual rapidity ONLY suspected collaborators with Israel. NO ONE OF THE LEADERS OF TERRORISTS ORGANIZATION WAS SENTENCED OR EXECUTED. Abu Hanud, one of the leader of Hamas recently killed by the Israelis, was put in prison only to save his life from any Israeli retaliation, and then released. Arafat has no will to seriously take action against Jihad or Hamas for one simple reason: thus not being the majority, A BIG PART of the Palestinians support terror. Usama Ibn Laden included. Don't forget this: You and me, the westeners, are THE ENEMY.