http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/statelegispolicy2007.html#text

There is no such thing as 'voting rights' but anyway

Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

[/thread]

First time felony offenders  should have their rights restored three years after their release and completing their probation/parole.

Screw up again..............no more voting,passports,guns,etc.


I dunno about child molestors. Id just as soon they were locked up forever.

Quoted: First time felony offenders  should have their rights restored three years after their release and completing their probation/parole. Screw up again..............no more voting,passports,guns,etc. I dunno about child molestors. Id just as soon they were locked up forever.

sounds alot more reasonable then no rights But I would like to exclude violent offenders

So, what are your felony convictions for?

If there was no such thing as "2 for 1" time or "3, 4, 5 for 1 time" and people didn't get "weekend jail" for felony crimes...and if there was enough jail space to actually keep violent felons in jail...I would agree with the concept of people being restored their previous status once released.


But here in reality where violent felons serve 1/3 of their sentence or just get probation with weekend jail time...no way.  

If people could see the numbers of violent felons walking around among them on a regular basis, they would never leave their house.  

I don't care either way, but let's assume that after 12 trips to prison, did 40 yrs and you served the entire sentance. That person wanted to finish his last few years on Earth as a good citizen, maybe he should have the right to vote. No they should not have a gun before somebody tries to insinuate that I'm some pro Ofaga bama shit.


eta


gramer

Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. [/thread]

Agreed, why are they out of the klink if they can't opperate the same as you and I?

At most I think it should be a time double what their incarceration length was until their rights are restored.

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

Wrong.

Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance.

The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society.

Fuck'em.

They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis.

Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em.

+1
If you want to commit crimes, don't bitch at the consequences.

Said it before, and I'll say it again.  Non-violent/drug charge?  You should get your rights back.

Quoted: Said it before, and I'll say it again.  Non-violent/drug charge?  You should get your rights back.

The people convicted of those type crimes are generally the most irresponsible "citizens" in our society.

Yet...you want them to vote

Good plan...

Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. [/thread]

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis.

There is a reason that the FELONY exists as a separate category of crimes in the Anglo-American justice system. Felons have ALWAYS suffered legal discrimination beyond the terms of their incarceration. The Framers had no problem with this and neither do I.

My concern is not about felons being unable to vote or own guns. My concern is with the proliferation of crimes classed as felonies. We need to go back to categorizing only serious crimes, ones that show a patent disregard for the rules of civilized society, as felonies.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. +1 If you want to commit crimes, don't bitch at the consequences.

Absolutly.. dont break the friggin rules.. its real easy... Millions of us do it on a daily basis...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis. There is a reason that the FELONY exists as a separate category of crimes in the Anglo-American justice system. Felons have ALWAYS suffered legal discrimination beyond the terms of their incarceration. The Framers had no problem with this and neither do I. My concern is not about felons being unable to vote or own guns. My concern is with the proliferation of crimes classed as felonies. We need to go back to categorizing only serious crimes, ones that show a patent disregard for the rules of civilized society, as felonies.

I agree with Mac, in the context of PAEBR' words, actually.

However, if we cannot accomplish what PAEBR describes, then I would rather all get their rights back, rather than deny rights to the huge number of non-violent/malum prohibitum offenders.

No way, besides these shitbags will vote left anyway.
Another ploy by the left to gain votes.
Illegal invaders voting, now felons. GTFO!
There are no standards in the USA anymore.

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis. There is a reason that the FELONY exists as a separate category of crimes in the Anglo-American justice system. Felons have ALWAYS suffered legal discrimination beyond the terms of their incarceration. The Framers had no problem with this and neither do I. My concern is not about felons being unable to vote or own guns. My concern is with the proliferation of crimes classed as felonies. We need to go back to categorizing only serious crimes, ones that show a patent disregard for the rules of civilized society, as felonies.

+1

Every time you turn around some elected official dickhead is coming up with another category of crime that is a felony.  Badmouth a congressman--felony.  Cheat a little on your taxes--felony.  Read the back of an aspirin bottle sometime.  It's a felony to take more than 2 aspirin at a time.  Do you people really believe that your voting rights and rights to own firearms need to be removed simply because you took 4 aspirin?  I think the voting rights that need to be removed are the ones belonging to the people that come up with these dumb laws.

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

Fuckin A!  +1

ACLU wants felons to vote

Of course they do.  

There are more laws in this country than even the Justice Department can count.

There are plenty of non-violent felonies.

Guns - maybe someday.  Voting - never.

Defending yourself is a right; voting is not.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis. There is a reason that the FELONY exists as a separate category of crimes in the Anglo-American justice system. Felons have ALWAYS suffered legal discrimination beyond the terms of their incarceration. The Framers had no problem with this and neither do I. My concern is not about felons being unable to vote or own guns. My concern is with the proliferation of crimes classed as felonies. We need to go back to categorizing only serious crimes, ones that show a patent disregard for the rules of civilized society, as felonies.

Completely agree.

Quoted: Quoted: Said it before, and I'll say it again.  Non-violent/drug charge?  You should get your rights back. The people convicted of those type crimes are generally the most irresponsible "citizens" in our society. Yet...you want them to vote Good plan...

He's allowed to agree with the ACLU and Democrats if he wants.

Quoted: There are more laws in this country than even the Justice Department can count. There are plenty of non-violent felonies.

So you think white collar crimes stealing mega-bucks should get rights back.  These are guys that specifically planned to steal.  How is that any different than somebody that used a gun or knife on purpose?

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

And hold a professional license. I'm not opposed to a time period they would have to wait until after they could get them back and/or a fee but I hate the idea of 1/2 citizens. If they are good enough to release from prison then they should have their rights. If not keep them locked up. Not that our justice/legal system isn't FUBAR. But if they paid their debt to society then they should have their rights.

Quoted: There is a reason that the FELONY exists as a separate category of crimes in the Anglo-American justice system. Felons have ALWAYS suffered legal discrimination beyond the terms of their incarceration. The Framers had no problem with this and neither do I. My concern is not about felons being unable to vote or own guns. My concern is with the proliferation of crimes classed as felonies. We need to go back to categorizing only serious crimes, ones that show a patent disregard for the rules of civilized society, as felonies.

This appears to be the correct answer.

Quoted: http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/statelegispolicy2007.html#text There is no such thing as 'voting rights' but anyway

My guess is that ACLU doesn't care about their right to own firearms, just their right to vote for Democrats . . .

Quoted: I dunno about child molestors. Id just as soon they were executed locked up forever.

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

And/or pay back all their victims.   How does a felon convicted of manslaughter with a gun who did his or her time pay back their "victim"?   How much is a life worth? 5 years? 10?

Frak 'em.

How much time did OJ serve?  Heck, he wasn't even convicted

1. In Florida, at least, the Legislature is in the midst of a years-long orgy of manufaturing new and trivial felonies. Without ever having driven drunk, hurt anyone, or damaged any property, a person can be convicted of Felony Driving while License Suspended or Revoked; signing up for a rent-to-own dinette set valued at over $300 and ceasing payments is a felony; credit card fraud over $100 is a felony. This is madness.

2. I have always been troubled by the idea that a person who cannot keep and bear arms can vote. It is an axiom of our law that one cannot convey or grant more than one has. If you lease a piece of real estate, you can sublet it, but you can't sell it. You don't own enough of an interest in the property to sell it.

All power and authority possessed by government is conferred or delegated by the electorate. This includes the government's right to use force, and more particularly, to arm its agents. How on earth is it possible for a person who is debarred the use of firearms to delegate to the government the power to arm its servants?

3. There are great swathes of felony convictions that should carry no post-sentence disabilities at all. I am partial to the notion expressed here that a person who is deemed fit to walk around loose without supervision should possess all the rights of a free man. On the other hand, there are felonies which involve or suggest a truly depraved character, but cannot be punished by death or imprisonment for life. I suppose the best solution would be as (Shotar, I think) suggested: case-by-case determination in the court of original conviction. The downside there is that all judges are subject to (and many bow to) immense pressure for risk-aversion. Nobody wants to be the judge who restored RKBA of a felon who thereafter commits a heinous crime.

I dunno.

Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis.

Nope.

If we are giving them a second chance, then it needs to be the real deal, not some truncated version of freedom. The only punishment that should be permanent is death.

Sex offenders usually have to register after being convicted.  They can walk around loose without almost no supervision other than an address check from time to time.

I'm of the thought that felons who don't or cannot make restitution to their victims shouldn't have voting and gun rights restored.

I'm tired of hearing that "non-violent" felons should automatically have rights restored once they served their time.  If someone stole $300,000 from me via identity theft, which is "non-violent", they serve say 3 years in prison, then are released,  I'll be damned if they should be able to vote or own guns.

They fall in the they did their time but are free to walk around "loose" category.

it has become way too easy to become a felon (and lose your rights) over the last 20 years....  

Well at least the ACLU doesn't want felons to have guns

ACLU can kiss my shinny white butt.

Imagin that ....

Quoted: If there was no such thing as "2 for 1" time or "3, 4, 5 for 1 time" and people didn't get "weekend jail" for felony crimes...and if there was enough jail space to actually keep violent felons in jail...I would agree with the concept of people being restored their previous status once released. But here in reality where violent felons serve 1/3 of their sentence or just get probation with weekend jail time...no way.   If people could see the numbers of violent felons walking around among them on a regular basis, they would never leave their house.

I agree 100% with this ^^^

A man violently rapes a stranger and is out in a couple of years happens way too often.  If the sentence is 15 years, make it 15 long hard years to the day.  Then we can talk.

Quoted: Quoted: Felons should be able to vote and own guns if they've done their time and paid restitution. Either they're now rehabilitated enough to be in normal society or they shouldn't be out of prison. Wrong. Prison is PART of their punishment for proving themselves DANGEROUS to other people. Just because they get out of prison doesn't mean they're no longer dangerous - it just means they didn't try to escape or kill anyone in prison and so we're giving them a second chance. The forfeiting of their voting rights is THE REST of their punishment for proving themselves IRRESPONSIBLE to society. Fuck'em. They have to PROVE themselves being responsible OUTSIDE of prison for a few years IF they want that right restored - on a case-by-case basis.

They prove themselves responsible on the outside by being on probation for however many years is normal after a prison stint.

Quoted: 1. In Florida, at least, the Legislature is in the midst of a years-long orgy of manufaturing new and trivial felonies. Without ever having driven drunk, hurt anyone, or damaged any property, a person can be convicted of Felony Driving while License Suspended or Revoked; signing up for a rent-to-own dinette set valued at over $300 and ceasing payments is a felony; credit card fraud over $100 is a felony. This is madness.

Then pay your tickets, or if that is too difficult of a feat to accomplish, don't drive while your license if fucking suspended. Seems pretty easy.

The more people restricted to vote the better.

The founding fathers understood the dangers of democracy.
Its a shame the ACLU and others don't.

when you find yourself agreeing with the ACLU, this is what we call a warning sign.

Quoted: Quoted: 1. In Florida, at least, the Legislature is in the midst of a years-long orgy of manufaturing new and trivial felonies. Without ever having driven drunk, hurt anyone, or damaged any property, a person can be convicted of Felony Driving while License Suspended or Revoked; signing up for a rent-to-own dinette set valued at over $300 and ceasing payments is a felony; credit card fraud over $100 is a felony. This is madness. Then pay your tickets, or if that is too difficult of a feat to accomplish, don't drive while your license if fucking suspended. Seems pretty easy.

Seriously, when would it ever make sense (bad/repeat DUIs and vehicular homicides aside) to give somebody five years in prison for driving without the proper plastic card in his wallet?

Is it not, per BATFE, ANY crime of which you are convicted that you COULD have received at least a 1 year sentence? Not just felonies? For owning a gun anyway? Do not some misdemeanors have at least 1 year sentences?

Quoted: Is it not, per BATFE, ANY crime of which you are convicted that you COULD have received at least a 1 year sentence? Not just felonies? For owning a gun anyway? Do not some misdemeanors have at least 1 year sentences?

The rule is actually "could have received more than 1 year" in prison. The break point is "up to one year" vs "more than a year." There are exceptions even to that, however, as the feds (and some states) have misdemeanors punishable by 2 or 3 years in the can. They are not disqualifying offenses.

Quoted: 2. I have always been troubled by the idea that a person who cannot keep and bear arms can vote. It is an axiom of our law that one cannot convey or grant more than one has. If you lease a piece of real estate, you can sublet it, but you can't sell it. You don't own enough of an interest in the property to sell it. All power and authority possessed by government is conferred or delegated by the electorate. This includes the government's right to use force, and more particularly, to arm its agents. How on earth is it possible for a person who is debarred the use of firearms to delegate to the government the power to arm its servants?

Excellent and compelling argument, counselor.

I agree with them being allowed to vote, as long as they've served their sentence, and then receive a passing score on a simple history & gov't basics test when they register to vote.

Furthermore, I'm for this restriction on all citizens. I think the utter failure to pass by the idiots who vote this country in the wrong direction because they don't have a clue would be a welcome change. Along with the repeal of the 26th Amendment. I've never seen a single 18 year-old, myself included when I was that age, responsible enough and educated enough to be entrusted with something as dangerous as a vote. It should be early-20s, say 22 or 23. 21 at the earliest.

Why sure....cut 'em loose and give 'em guns and voting privilages.....
Might want to look at these stats first.
It seems that one of the reasons our prisons are overflowing is that about 2/3 (or more) of the REHABILITATED FELONS that we turn loose manage to get put back in again. A fact that most cops out there know all too well.
Go figure...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/reentry/recidivism.htm       (Link Left cold on purpose...)

In a 15 State study, over two-thirds of released prisoners were rearrested within three years

Two studies come closest to providing "national" recidivism rates for the United States. One tracked 108,580 State prisoners released from prison in 11 States in 1983. The other tracked 272,111 prisoners released from prison in 15 States in 1994. The prisoners tracked in these studies represent two-thirds of all the prisoners released in the United States for that year.
Rearrest within 3 years
67.5% of prisoners released in 1994 were rearrested within 3 years, an increase over the 62.5% found for those released in 1983

The rearrest rate for property offenders, drug offenders, and public-order offenders increased significantly from 1983 to 1994. During that time, the rearrest rate increased:
- from 68.1% to 73.8% for property offenders
- from 50.4% to 66.7% for drug offenders
- from 54.6% to 62.2% for public-order offenders

The rearrest rate for violent offenders remained relatively stable (59.6% in 1983 compared to 61.7% in 1994).
To the top

Reconviction within 3 years
Overall, reconviction rates did not change significantly from 1983 to 1994. Among, prisoners released in 1983, 46.8% were reconvicted within 3 years compared to 46.9% among those released in 1994. From 1983 to 1994, reconviction rates remained stable for released:
- violent offenders (41.9% and 39.9%, respectively)
- property offenders (53.0% and 53.4%)
- public-order offenders (41.5% and 42.0%)

Among drug offenders, the rate of reconviction increased significantly, going from 35.3% in 1983 to 47.0% in 1994.
To the top

Returned to prison within 3 years
The 1994 recidivism study estimated that within 3 years, 51.8% of prisoners released during the year were back in prison either because of a new crime for which they received another prison sentence, or because of a technical violation of their parole. This rate was not calculated in the 1983 study.
BJS Sources:
Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1983, April, 1989
Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994, June, 2002.