User Panel
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:48:29 PM EDT
i watch the next generation from time to time, and where the hell were they, are they ever even mentioned?
|
|
oh yeah, but he is the only one i can think of, anybody else? |
|
|
I thought the guys in red were the enlisted - they were the ones always dying.
|
|
Like the poster above. Anybody in a red uniform shirt, other than scotty, was enlisted and usually toast.
|
|
|
|
|
He's the only one I ever remember hearing about. |
|
|
Yes... The transporter operators on TOS & TNG were Chiefs - they never said CWO or CPO, though... Kyle & O'Brien... O'Brien's career suggests he was a warrant (being handed the entire engineering section of DS9)... And of course, there were numerous expendable 'crewmen' (bare collar, TNG rank structure).... Who were only seen in passing through the ship, or long enough to get killed... The series focuses primarily on the lives of the officers, of course - generally uses an 'enlisted crew are seen and not heard' perspective... |
|
|
I don't think the non officers in star trek lived long enough to make up that high.
|
|
There are enlisted men - but they are in the bowels of the ship serving your food and cleaning toilets or doing other grunt work.
The other twist is that to get on a star ship you have to complete a 4 year degree from starfleet academy. I mean - you gotta be a freakin' genius to be on the Enterprise or other ship like that. Out of the BILLIONS of people on all the colonies - on the cream get to serve. If you finish your 4 years at starfleet, its like ROTC and you are an ensign. But yes - they do have enlisted ranks. |
|
Weren't those ensigns? They were about as useful. |
|
|
Colors are department, not rank. Red is security and engineering (subtle differences between uniforms). Blue is science and medical. Gold (and sometimes green) is command. In TNG and onward, the colors are different. Gold/green is security and engineering. Blue is science and medical. Red is command. You rarely see or hear about enlisted people, and even the enlisted crewmen went to Starfleet Academy. And there's only ONE Starfleet Academy (though it has several far-flung campuses and such for pre-enrollment testing and field exercises.). The Federation is Marxist. Don't believe me? The Economics of Star Trek
As you can see, the Federation is an oppressive, socialist utopia. We won't even get into the multiple incidents of genocide excused or allowed by Picard, Janeway, Sisko, and Archer. Shit, their transporter KILLS YOU AND MAKES A CLONE every time it's used. It doesn't just beam you from one spot or another, it KILLS YOU and then creates a duplicate. We see this repeatedly, but the most obvious example is when we end up with TWO Riker's because it messed up. How fucking horrible is a society where not only do people unquestioningly kill themselves so an exact (more or less) duplicate can be created in a more convenient location, but anyone who objects to the transporter is seen as paranoid and is treated with amusement or derision? The Galactic Empire, however, is a free market society where anyone with the money (and the Empire is a meritocracy, where you get what you earn) can buy a droid to do their manual labor for them, can buy a starship capable of flying all over the galaxy in days or even hours, and can own a handgun with the firepower of a 40mm grenade launcher and the ammo capacity of a beltfed machine gun. The choice is obvious. JOIN THE EMPIRE TODAY! Together, we will defeat the oppressive and brutal regimes of the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, and those horribly enslaved by the Borg and bring peace and freedom to this newly discovered galaxy! ENLIST NOW! |
||
|
Voyager and Enterprise went so far as to have the main characters, even when they had no real reason to be doing that particular assignment, doing things instead of letting the people WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO DO THAT do it. |
||
|
The enlisted were all red shirts... All the red shirts die on away-missions.
|
|
Good God man! I am still a newbie, but that may be the most epic post i have ever seen! |
|||
|
Star Trek was written by a hippie... They put the Academy/Federation Capital in SAN FRANSISCO.... The rest can be explained by the fact that 'The Federation' was Roddenberry's utopia... |
|||
|
Point of interest about that:
|
||
|
Actually the Galactic Empire was not fully supportive of individual rights. While the Economy allowed for the accumulation of wealth, The Empire could limit those rights which it felt would lend to criminal enterprise or insurrection.
I used to own a lot of the old WEST END game supplements for the original (and best) Star Wars RPG. These books went into far greater detail of the Empire then what Lucas showed on film. Not that any real detail was necessary in this area as the films concern themselves with character instead of fluff. *The Empire was very racist against non-humans, and the ability for them to control/own corporations/buisness in the CorSec or Core worlds was limited to a sever degree. Only criminal enterprise saw exception such as Xizor on Courscant, but he aided the Empire. Also the Empire's military was human only, but with few exceptions such as Grand Admiral Thrawn. I never understood Palpatines reason for this as one of his pupils was an alien. Maybe it had to do with the former senate and the various alien representatives. *Explosive ordnance and powerful Blaster weapons were actually limited on alot of the Core and Mid-rim worlds. Only in the Outer-rim did there exist an "anything goes" attitude towards weaponary. Including Pirates and Spice runners with customized ships laden with weapons. Ships in the Core/Mid-rim could legally have blasters for defense, but were limited to how many/powerful. *The Empire controlled alot of information, but seemed very powerless in this as too many competitors existed to spread propaganda of choice. Any world that got to big for its britches though recieved free of charge special attention that only Torpedo Spheres, Star Destroyers, and more Stormtroopers than you can count could muster. Victory and Imperial class Star destroyers will capable of reducing most cities into smoking ruins. I would say screw both the Federation and the Galactic Empire and go Rebel all the way! Wheeeeeeee... |
|
|
|
|
The internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS. |
|
|
More than you know. |
|
|
In TOS & TNG, there were none. Every crew member goes through Starfleet Academy and get his baccelaureate degree along with astronaut training.
The only enlisted man I ever heard of was Chief Obrien who was captured by the J'em Hadar and refered to as a "Non-Comm". So a million officers and only one enlisted man; Chief Obrien was one toilet scrubbing, deck swabbing fool. |
|
I've always thought it would be interesting to see a few episodes of Star Trek (any generation) from the perspective of enlisted crewmen, junior ones who live like junior
enlisted do anywhere, eating in mess halls, sleeping in bunks in a dormitory, little privacy, jobs that are unglamorous. Actually, in the movie Star Trek VI, The Undiscovered Country, enlisted men were visited in their barracks rooms, if you remember. Remember the lockers, the boots, Chekhov failing to notice the funky feet of the funky faced alien enlisted man? Even in the large Star Trek fan universe, I don't think there's any description of enlisted rank systems. It's like nobody wants to be enlisted or even consider it. Civilians in general would tend to think that if they were to be a guest for some reason at a military base, they'd be guests of officers and if they went to eat, they'd eat with the officers, not the enlisted men. It's typical. CJ |
|
they mention crewman from time to time on all the series
Obrien was the first regular we saw that was clearly enlisted Cutler on Enterprise was in a few episodes and was enlisted. She likely would have been in more but the actress died The TOS movies showed a lot of enlisted, especial ST6 |
|
I'm a Star Wars fan myself...I always found ST to be a bit too PC for my tastes...
Anyway, why, when someone posts a 5000 page article, does every poster who replies to them have to retain the entire thing in their quote??? |
|
Because it was just that awesome the first time around? |
|
|
At the end of Deep Space 9. O'brain was made a Master Chief Pettey Officer. |
|
The New Republic wasn't innocent by any mean.
I would have joined Talon Karrde's crew |
|
Didn't Kirk try to bang a yeoman in one of the early episodes?
|
|
Rub-a-dub-dub.
They're down in the bilges with a box o' Kim-Wipes and a bottle of SimpleGreen. |
|
I think there are 2 possibilites on this, first, it was either all automated or done by robotics and droids so no real need for non-rate enlisted. Second, and maybe more probable, some things will never change even in the future. The Officers still get all the glory and live in the limelight while the Enlisted's are still doing the grunt work and remain out of sight and out of mind. How many people would watch a show with the main characters cleaning the shitters, scrubbing decks and scraping paint every week as opposed to saving the Universe? |
||
|
Please don't quote an entire post that long again. |
|
|
Good God! Are you all actually debating the politics of Star Trek?
Sometimes I wonder if the general stereotype of a 35 year old, moms basement dwelling, virgin here is true. Your all a bunch of dorks. |
|
I'm thinking, or have always understood, that most of the jumpsuited members in Engineering were enlisted. Or very junior officers.
And on occassion you see them in the lounges/mess as well. But like said, the show is geared around the captain and his bridge officers mostly. |
|
They did have ground forces (Army/Marines) in certain episodes. |
||
|
There were enlisted ranks on board. They were basically food tasters, motion detectors for aliens and targets that stood besides the officer corps. Since most, if not all, of the Enterprise's units were autonomous it would not be necessary to staff a starship with thousands of enlisted ranks. They would just be in the way. Normally they stayed in their pods and were only reanimated to fill in the red shirts when another planetary expedition required additional targets.
Interestingly enough if you are interested a book has been written, in Romulan, that details the Star Fleet ship's crew list. Fatherless took it off a sleeping Ensign who drank too much Karbalan wine off the Tannhauser Gate. |
|
There was an episode of ST:TNG called lower decks about the bottom end officers of the ship. It was very good. Only one ended up dying on a secret mission.
|
|
People attack me when I say the Empire were the good guys. |
|
|
And it's "you're", not "your".
No they didn't. The only military the Federation has is Starfleet. Every single "ground force" was Starfleet officers in Starfleet pajamas with their badly designed phasers and little to no training for ground combat. The only times we see any sort of specialization in ground combat is in Enterprise with the MACO's and The Motion Picture where they had security guards with padded armor watching the door. Nowhere in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, or all but one movie do we have anyone mentioned as being specifically trained for ground combat, much less see examples of them. The Federation has no infantry, only naval officers and crewmen (and they seem to be top-heavy, with an abundance of officers and only a handful of enlisted, much like certain communist regimes) who get stuck acting as infantry because there literally is no one else to do the job. The only time we see them with any sort of protective gear (no NBC gear, no helmet, no armor, etc.) is in The Motion Picture. Their weapons are horribly suited to actual combat and they receive very little training for it anyway. Here is a comparison of real life, Star Wars, and Star Trek ground combat technology, with categories such as small arms, artillery, armor, and miscellaneous. In real life, you have protective gear, NBC gear, armored transport, heavy weapons, a wide range of small arms suitable to combat, and dedicated ground troops who are trained specifically for ground combat. Likewise in Star Wars. In Star Trek, you have a bunch of guys running around on foot (in dress shoes, no less), with nothing more protective than their pajamas, armed with weapons designed to look like women's electric razors that feature crippling ergonomics, no military branch dedicated to ground warfare, and little to no training for it. No armor, no transportation (unless you want to rely on an orbiting starship to beam you around), no protective gear, and no chance at anything except getting horribly raped by the first group of guys who actually have a clue what they're doing. The only reason the Federation ever wins on the ground is because their enemies are even more incompetent. Heck, Starfleet even denies being a military organization, even though it's the ONLY military the Federation has got. What do you expect from people run by ulta-PC libtards in space? |
||||
|
Well, they weren't good, but they were a heck of a lot better than everything else. Life under the Empire for 99% of people, regardless of gender or species, was unaffected on a daily basis. The only time the Empire dicked with you was when you were involved in rebellion, terrorism, or all of the above. |
||
|
There is such a thing as knowing entirely too much about a subject. Have you guys even SEEN a girl? Other than on TV and at the movies?
Christ, did I type that out loud. I meant, carry on. This is truly a fascinating discussion... |
|
That is not the way they portray the Empire in the X-wing series. They pretty much say that the Empire will exterminate your race/enslave your race if you are not human. |
|||
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.