I know wallet holsters are AOW, but are these the same...they say not.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I know wallet holsters are AOW, but are these the same...they say not.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:54:44 PM EDT

Here is a link for basically the same type wallet. They SAY they are not as they are identifiable as firearms. What say you. There is one on EBAY as well.

http://packwellsupply.com/Walletholster.htm

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:00:22 PM EDT

[#1]

Still need a CCW to carry in your pocket

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:02:35 PM EDT

[#2]

I thought the "test" was if it could be fired without removing it from said "device"

(and, is there any reason that you don't want that website "hotlinked"?)

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:04:20 PM EDT

[#3]

Yeah I have a CCW, but do not want to run afoul with this as an illegal wallet holster. I saw one of these at a gunshow last year and they were saying legal because the outline clearly showed.... blah, blah blah. I don't really trust any gunshow seller because he'll tell you it will lift your car off you in an emergancy just to make money.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:05:45 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I thought the "test" was if it could be fired without removing it from said "device"

(and, is there any reason that you don't want that website "hotlinked"?)

No I meant to hot link it, no misintention here. AND it can be fired as you see it no removal necessary

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:09:17 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought the "test" was if it could be fired without removing it from said "device"

(and, is there any reason that you don't want that website "hotlinked"?)

No I meant to hot link it, no misintention here. AND it can be fired as you see it no removal necessary

Yeah, the hole over the trigger makes it obvious it can be fired

I'm saying that I thought it being able to be fired is what MADE it an AOW
packwellsupply.com/Walletholster.htm

ETA: someone want to post the pic?

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:10:09 PM EDT

[#6]

Well the the people at that website say that since they are not disguising the gun it is kosher.

I say that is probably so, part of the problem with the NAAs was that that holster hid the gun, yet still allowed it to be fired.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:11:33 PM EDT

[#7]

The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:16:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Its only illegal if it can be fired while still in the wallet

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:16:25 PM EDT

[#9]

I have a High Standard DM-101 in .22mag. that gets shoved in behind my wallet on those light flow days..

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:18:57 PM EDT

[#10]

What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor - it was the idea that the holster could be used as a handle.

Kind of like hanging a VFG on a rail equipped pistol converts it into an AOW.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:19:05 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."

Yeah, those aft guys are a lot more "easygoing", heh

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:19:21 PM EDT

[#12]

Stupid fucking..."rules" be damned... if you have a need for it... get it.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:22:21 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."

Yeah, those aft guys are a lot more "easygoing", heh

And if the ATF gets on your trail, you can kiss your AFT goodbye.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:25:43 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor - it was the idea that the holster could be used as a handle.

Kind of like hanging a VFG on a rail equipped pistol converts it into an AOW.

That is not what NAA says:link

Why has the wallet holster been discontinued?

The wallet, in and of itself, is a benign piece of folded leather. The minirevolver is a time-tested, high-quality small firearm but, when you join one with the other, watch out! _ you've just created what ATF defines as 'any other weapon', a rather nefarious classification which includes pen guns, cane guns and other disguised weaponry. While legal to own, AOWs require registration and payment of special taxes similar to those for fully-automatic weapons. Possession of an AOW without meeting these requirements subjects the holder to a felony charge (which further exposes us to the liability of a lawsuit).

The distinction between the WH and the folding holster grip or the belt buckle, as it has been explained to us, is that the WH weapon is operable from its disguised state (no need to remove it from the wallet in order to fire it). Both the HG and BB require that the gun be additionally manipulated (opened, removed) before it is functional, and so suffer no 'special' classification. The WH was a very popular accessory and it's a great disappointment that we're unable to offer it for sale.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:30:11 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Yeah I have a CCW, but do not want to run afoul with this as an illegal wallet holster. I saw one of these at a gunshow last year and they were saying legal because the outline clearly showed.... blah, blah blah. I don't really trust any gunshow seller because he'll tell you it will lift your car off you in an emergancy just to make money.

Write the word "FIREARM" in flourescent marker ALL OVER the goddam holster.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:35:03 PM EDT

[#16]

Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:37:06 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5

You are not correct. The holster is not an AOW. Just like a verticle grip, a holster is not a firearm. The handgun is. If you want one for $5, you need to find one ALREADY manufactured as an AOW and TRANSFER it. If you want to put your previously owned handgun in the holster, the making tax stamp is $200.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:37:46 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5

$200 manufacture
$5 transfer

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:45:19 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."

Yeah, those aft guys are a lot more "easygoing", heh

And if the ATF gets on your trail, you can kiss your AFT goodbye.

That would suck, I'm quite enamored of both my fore and my aft

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:47:24 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5

$200 manufacture
$5 transfer

That's obviously if you have no imagination.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:10 PM EDT

[#21]

I perfer this

ETA, going on 5 years now

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:34 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor - it was the idea that the holster could be used as a handle.

Kind of like hanging a VFG on a rail equipped pistol converts it into an AOW.

That is not what NAA says:link

Why has the wallet holster been discontinued?

The distinction between the WH and the folding holster grip or the belt buckle, as it has been explained to us, is that the WH weapon is operable from its disguised state (no need to remove it from the wallet in order to fire it).

While I'm not disagreeing that it may be a determining factor, I was disputing it's being the sole factor. I saw on another site where the ability to grasp the enclosed weapon with two hands contributed towards the AOW designation as well, and thus the restriction.

I still think it's right up there with the Class III shoeloace and rubber band, but what do you expect when the judge is prosecutor and jury as well.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:53 PM EDT

[#23]

If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:55:33 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?

Tt gets better, Dan, you can buy one of the wallet holsters, but you need a tax stamp to put a gun in it, just like all the handguns with lower rails that also happen to fit weaver (think vertical foregrip).

Just need to mention, the defining characteristics of the tax stamp,

1. the ability to fire the gun while in the "holster" AND

2. the holster concealing the gun.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:58:11 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?

the real question is "if you have a pocket pistol and some leather, is it constructive intent?"

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:59:06 PM EDT

[#26]

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:03:12 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.

then you just have this

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:04:06 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.

It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:04:44 PM EDT

[#29]

why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:06:11 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.

Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup

(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:06:51 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.

It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.

Olofson Jury?

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:09:52 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.

Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup

(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)

bitch say what?

Eye keeled a cottonmouth, and a rabbit (at 15 yards) and a cow eatin stray dog.

very acurate, and reliable.

I can hit pop cans at 15 yards, every shot.

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:14:59 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.

It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.

Olofson Jury?

<cough> Goatfuck <cough>
<cough> jury manipulation<cough>

See my above quote about the interpreters of the law also being judge, jury and prosecutor...

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:17:44 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.

It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.

Olofson Jury?

While I appreciate your insight, you must concede that the Olofson Jury was asked if the firearm met the definition - the law makes no exception for a malfunctioning gun. In this case, by the law's definition, the firearm must look like something OTHER than a firearm. I contend that it very much looks like a gun - especially when pointed at the jury by an animated defense atourney - or when the word "FIREARM" is written all over it - if "Wet Floor" pre-empts civil suit, I see no reason why this is a firearm.

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:18:37 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.

Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup

(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)

bitch say what?

Eye keeled a cottonmouth, and a rabbit (at 15 yards) and a cow eatin stray dog.

very acurate, and reliable.

I can hit pop cans at 15 yards, every shot.

I got a Glock because I'm a big fan of reliability
are you saying that pistol is as reliable as mine?

Posted: 7/20/2008 3:25:15 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor

Yes, it was.

It is regulated as a disguised weapon, along the lines of a gun disguised as a cane, or a pen.
www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter18.txt

"Placing the High-Standard derringer in the "Wallet-Holster" negates
the use of the birdshead type stock which can no longer be gripped
by the hand in the conventional manner. The derringer thus becomes
a concealed gadget device in the same category as a can gun, a belt
buckle pistol, or a cigarette lighter gun, and is classified as
"any other weapon" in the amended National Firearms Act of 1968."

Posted: 7/20/2008 3:33:32 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Here is a link for basically the same type wallet. They SAY they are not as they are identifiable as firearms. What say you. There is one on EBAY as well.

http://packwellsupply.com/Walletholster.htm

Should not be an AOW.

"If you would like to submit a redesigned or modified holster that
you believe would not be subject to the NFA when held in
combination with an American Derringer firearm, we will be happy to
examine it and provide you with the results. We would suggest that
the redesigned sample no longer resemble a wallet and the
modification should include cutting the top rear of the wallet,
thereby exposing the entire back strap and trigger guard area of
the inserted derringer. The cuts should follow the exact contour
of the frame of the pistol and not overlap to risk a disguised
appearance."

Posted: 7/20/2008 4:44:21 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.

IIRC somebody made a grip thingamajig for S&W J frames that squared off the profile to something like the gun in question. Held extra ammo, might have had a laser also. Was still recognizable as a gun because the revolver wasn't covered up.

<eta> Seems like it was made by Pachmayr. Bottom of page

Posted: 7/20/2008 5:41:02 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor

Yes, it was.

It is regulated as a disguised weapon, along the lines of a gun disguised as a cane, or a pen.
www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter18.txt

"Placing the High-Standard derringer in the "Wallet-Holster" negates
the use of the birdshead type stock which can no longer be gripped
by the hand in the conventional manner. The derringer thus becomes
a concealed gadget device in the same category as a can gun, a belt
buckle pistol, or a cigarette lighter gun, and is classified as
"any other weapon" in the amended National Firearms Act of 1968."

I sit corrected. I had read elsewhere that the ability to grip the case with two hands contributed towards that detemination.

That may have been another opinion.

I still stand by my "judge, jury and prosecutor" belief however.

Posted: 7/20/2008 5:54:07 AM EDT

[#40]

Not an AOW, does not disguise the weapon.

As long as it isn't modified to conceal the weapon over the slide it is legal to own and use in conjunction with a semi-automatic pistol without falling in the AOW classification.

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:18:04 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.

Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup

(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)

bitch say what?

Eye keeled a cottonmouth, and a rabbit (at 15 yards) and a cow eatin stray dog.

very acurate, and reliable.

I can hit pop cans at 15 yards, every shot.

I got a Glock because I'm a big fan of reliability
are you saying that pistol is as reliable as mine?

I have a P3AT and two glocks. All are reliable just the same. That is the reason the glock and P3AT are carried for my ccw.

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:26:31 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Its only illegal if it can be fired while still in the wallet

I sometimes have a J frame in my briefcase (open top). I could be carrying it in my left hand and reach in with my right.............

wonder if I should board the dog?

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:31:37 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?

the real question is "if you have a pocket pistol and some leather, is it constructive intent?"

How about a coat pocket? Extended to an extreme, the pistol can be fired from concealment inside a pocket. Not one of my coats looks like a firearm or even have a manufacturer's logo for id.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I know wallet holsters are AOW, but are these the same...they say not.

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