Survival scenario for all or us. Legal question for arfcom police and lawyers

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Survival scenario for all or us. Legal question for arfcom police and lawyers (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:19:39 PM EDT

I know must of us are well equiped at home, however suppose the shtf while you are at work and you leave your job at the end of your shift and have to drive through the city. Lets assume it as as bad or worse than the following video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYnJiiLGwjY&feature=related
Suppose you are the guy at the 1 miniute 9 second mark of the video.

Would it be legal for you to hit this gas and run the thugs over?

Once they surround and stop your vechicle and begin to smash through the windows, would it be legal for you to pull out your gun and start spraying?

Since there is the possiblity that this really could occur to any of us, what legal non class 3 weapon would be best to keep in your car in order to survive this situation?

I assume it would need to be a short weapon that can be used one handed because you would probably keep one hand on the steering wheel.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:23:01 PM EDT

[#1]

it's the red x of doom!

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:29:37 PM EDT

[#2]

The link should work now. Its the La Riots Begin video clip.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:33:09 PM EDT

[#3]

I would run 'em down while shooting through the windshield ala Neil McCauley at the drive in.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:33:17 PM EDT

[#4]

Shoot, ~~shovel~~,shut the fuck up

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:49:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Note to self:

When mob breaks out window, push gas pedal to get the hell out of there before they can pull you out of the car. Worry about anything else later.

On a side note, what would those shitheads have done to a toddler in a car seat? I have often wondered if they would have come to their senses like a human being or became more of an animal and do something even more aweful.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:51:05 PM EDT

[#6]

I don't care what the legal ramifications would be. Once my car windows are being broken, anyone in the way is going to meet some blacktop.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:52:32 PM EDT

[#7]

Shoot first! Let L.A. coroners office sort em' out.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:54:51 PM EDT

[#8]

I would not stop.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:55:28 PM EDT

[#9]

That is definately a legit sef defense scenario...

A reasonable person would fear death or great bodily harm...

Use all necessary force to escape....

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:09:57 PM EDT

[#10]

The legal ramifications are irrelevant if you are dead. To the best of my knowledge every state has a law of some sorts justifying homicide in self defense based on a "reasonable fear" of some sort. If you are in a situation where a rational, sane, logical person would fear for their life than violence up to and including death is justified. Do what you must to get clear....worry about the law later.

I know the area in the videos well. I worked for two years at a clinic just off of Florence not more than a mile or so from where Reginald Denny got his ass whuppin.

Had runins on more than one occasion with males of the (fill in color) persuasion wearing either red or blue colors. Never had to draw down on em but had by hand on the snubnosed .357 under my white coat. It's a nasty rough neighborhood if you are of an appropriately dark ethnicity. If you be white it's a flat out war zone.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:13:50 PM EDT

[#11]

Well, I drive a Big Ass Suburban™, so if I'm the guy at the 1:09 mark in that video I'm cranking the wheel all the way to the left and doing fucking zombie-smashing donuts on their asses.

-p.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:20:01 PM EDT

[#12]

Sorry, I've got baby car seat, children's booster seat, and an older child.

If i'm threaten, and with or without arms, I gun the gas and drive until that threat is gone. If I happen to smear something, oh well, i'll repair the car later.

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:21:40 PM EDT

[#13]

Did you see how cheap diesel was?!?!?!?!?

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:24:58 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Sorry, I've got baby car seat, children's booster seat, and an older child.

If i'm threaten, and with or without arms, I gun the gas and drive until that threat is gone. If I happen to smear something, oh well, i'll repair the car later.

Yep

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:30:13 PM EDT

[#15]

The scenario the OP outlines sounds like it would make for a kick ass video game!

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:33:06 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
The scenario the OP outlines sounds like it would make for a kick ass video game!

They already made one, Grand Theft Auto (x).

Posted: 7/19/2008 8:41:39 PM EDT

[#17]

2-ton battering ram coming through.

Note to self, install cattle sweeper on the front of the minivan.

Posted: 7/20/2008 5:49:28 AM EDT

[#18]

What non class 3 weapon would be best to have in your car with you to survive the above scenario?

I was thinking it had to be a one handed weapon you could fire while keeping your other hand on the steering wheel.

I was thinking a glock 17 with the 33 round mags or an uzi.

If you had to drive through that what non class 3 weapon would you want with you in your car?

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:29:54 AM EDT

[#19]

I'd never vote for a conviction on anyone who defended themselves in that situation.

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:38:54 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
What non class 3 weapon would be best to have in your car with you to survive the above scenario?

I was thinking it had to be a one handed weapon you could fire while keeping your other hand on the steering wheel.

I was thinking a glock 17 with the 33 round mags or an uzi.

If you had to drive through that what non class 3 weapon would you want with you in your car?

G17/19 with 17 or 15+2 mags. You can store it forever, it's easy, relatively cheap and durable. An M4 would be my choice if I ever had to walk on foot (too obvious or attention-getting in that situation?), but the best weapon is simply avoiding it at all costs. If I see a group like that, I am running the red light LONG before they surround my vehicle. If I'm unaware/overwhelmed/surprised and people get to my window with heavy objects, then as others posted there will be plenty of rubber meeting the road regardless of who or what is in front of me.

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:06:01 AM EDT

[#21]

These folks don't seem to be having any problems.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=quNEzN0_toc&feature=related

But, then again, there is one glaring Heller-type difference between them.

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:19:25 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

These folks don't seem to be having any problems.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=quNEzN0_toc&feature=related

But, then again, there is one glaring Heller-type difference between them.

Hal was a great reporter. I miss seeing him on the news. Sad day when he died.

Those idiots are animals. I'd have no problems taking out the trash.

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:23:41 AM EDT

[#23]

Run them all down

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:34:45 AM EDT

[#24]

I would survive the encounter. However except the "innocents" to say you ran them over for no reason.

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:47:26 AM EDT

[#25]

WOT - Wide Open Throttle

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:08:55 AM EDT

[#26]

FTMFW!!

And something HEAVY in 4X4.

also I enjoyed the commentary at 0:51 into the vid.... still was not convinced though.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:10:10 AM EDT

[#27]

Shift into 4x4 and put the pedal to the metal.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:16:02 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Well, I drive a Big Ass Suburban™, so if I'm the guy at the 1:09 mark in that video I'm cranking the wheel all the way to the left and doing fucking zombie-smashing donuts on their asses.

-p.

Hahah. Awesome!

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:26:54 AM EDT

[#29]

My tires would spin as the blood/fat/skin/gore got under them..........but hey, at least I WILL GET HOME!!

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:29:12 AM EDT

[#30]

I wonder . . . legally speaking . . . would you be obligated to report the incident, immediately?

You know, report to the local LEO station - before you headed home (to escape the riot/SHTF situation)?

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:31:36 AM EDT

[#31]

Which weapon to have with you?

Let's see......a 1 pound pistol......or a 4,000 vehicle.

No contest. Hit the gas.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:39:50 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Which weapon to have with you?

Let's see......a 1 pound pistol......or a 4,000 vehicle.

No contest. Hit the gas.

Why not have both!

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:45:48 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Which weapon to have with you?

Let's see......a 1 pound pistol......or a 4,000 vehicle.

No contest. Hit the gas.

This post is worthless without backing it up with the next box of truth episode!

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:48:25 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I wonder . . . legally speaking . . . would you be obligated to report the incident, immediately?

You know, report to the local LEO station - before you headed home (to escape the riot/SHTF situation)?

I would be on the phone with 911 and seeking the nearest policeman/station.

YMMV

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:50:55 AM EDT

[#35]

Angry mob surrounding my vehicle? Check. I'm making it home alive and in good condition. Whether the participants in the angry mob choose to get out of my way is their problem.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:53:30 AM EDT

[#36]

I would move forward until my truck had a pile of asshole too big to push, then back up and go around.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:58:23 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry, I've got baby car seat, children's booster seat, and an older child.

If i'm threaten, and with or without arms, I gun the gas and drive until that threat is gone. If I happen to smear something, oh well, i'll repair the car later.

Yep

Same here. It reminds of the video of that guys who was mouthing off into the camera and then went to bashing on the blue PT Cruiser; that happens to me when I am in the car with the kids, the guy is DRT. Either by the vehicle or the 9mm.

But, I'm in Texas.

Posted: 7/20/2008 9:07:41 AM EDT

[#38]

I would be afraid. Very afraid. Then I would be mad very mad. I would make it home safe but if anyone tried to stop me they would not.

Posted: 7/20/2008 9:08:08 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I know must of us are well equiped at home, however suppose the shtf while you are at work and you leave your job at the end of your shift and have to drive through the city. Lets assume it as as bad or worse than the following video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYnJiiLGwjY&feature=related
Suppose you are the guy at the 1 miniute 9 second mark of the video.

Would it be legal for you to hit this gas and run the thugs over?

Once they surround and stop your vechicle and begin to smash through the windows, would it be legal for you to pull out your gun and start spraying?

Since there is the possiblity that this really could occur to any of us, what legal non class 3 weapon would be best to keep in your car in order to survive this situation?

I assume it would need to be a short weapon that can be used one handed because you would probably keep one hand on the steering wheel.

1:09 would never have happened to me. I'd have run them over. 4000 lb car w/350 hp vs 200=400 lb men. I'd get away.

They'd have to find and convict me later, after all the footage was on TV. I believe I could make a "fear for my life" argument then.

when the SHTF, if it's a threat, it's road kill.

Posted: 7/20/2008 9:17:09 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
What non class 3 weapon would be best to have in your car with you to survive the above scenario?

I was thinking it had to be a one handed weapon you could fire while keeping your other hand on the steering wheel.

I was thinking a glock 17 with the 33 round mags or an uzi.

If you had to drive through that what non class 3 weapon would you want with you in your car?

ANY weapon. with the first 3 rounds, most of the crowd would scatter. Think stampeding cattle cows with 3 or 4 bulls. Not a pack of wolves.

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:55:19 PM EDT

[#41]

The reason I ask is that I recently saw this video clip and remembered the La riots.

I have been thinking about putting a survival pistol/rifle in my car for shtf situations that might occur while I am at work. I was not sure what would be best to keep in the car. I have narrowed it down to folding stock shotgun, uzi, or just a glock 17 with 33 round magazines.

Which would you keep in the car for an emergency situation?

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:01:47 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What non class 3 weapon would be best to have in your car with you to survive the above scenario?

I was thinking it had to be a one handed weapon you could fire while keeping your other hand on the steering wheel.

I was thinking a glock 17 with the 33 round mags or an uzi.

If you had to drive through that what non class 3 weapon would you want with you in your car?

ANY weapon. with the first 3 rounds, most of the crowd would scatter. Think stampeding cattle cows with 3 or 4 bulls. Not a pack of wolves.

Got a news flash for you....I spent a lot of time in that area. Too much. A lot of those street mongrels were packing. Someone fires at them they will fire back. Gangbangers are not noted for intelligence, met a few that were bright but not many.
But I never met one that was a coward or afraid to fight...if they felt the odds were good enough. They only back down if they percieve they are at a disadvantage.
At the beginning of the riots the bangers and their friends owned the streets in that area. They would not have hesitated to return fire a at a vehicle they were recieving fire from. To them it would be no different than reacting to a drive by from a rival hood.

Using the car as a weapon to GTFO of dodge is the best solution. I would have only brought a weapon into play if my vehicle had been disabled or someone had managed to gain partial or complete entry to my vehicle.

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:16:03 PM EDT

[#43]

Glock 22 in .40 if vehicle is entered. But, they probably wouldn't have much of a chance as I'd pop the truck in 4x4 and it'd be throttle down & "Clean & claw. Clean & claw!" I believe that's the term for getting the "mud" out of tire tracks to ensure traction is achieved.

Sly

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:24:48 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
That is definately a legit sef defense scenario...

A reasonable person would fear death or great bodily harm...

Use all necessary force to escape....

FTW

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:28:35 PM EDT

[#45]

Who the hell care's if its legal or not? its obviously not legal for them to surround your vehicle and pull you out and beat you so why care about them? i'd run them the hell over and not even lose a millisecond of sleep over it. I'd only shoot if i absolutly had to, ammo is too valuable in those situations.

Posted: 7/20/2008 7:46:11 PM EDT

[#46]

That would have been a good time to be a voter on the rooftops

4LO and go

Kinda like muddn

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:04:34 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Same here. It reminds of the video of that guys who was mouthing off into the camera and then went to bashing on the blue PT Cruiser; that happens to me when I am in the car with the kids, the guy is DRT. Either by the vehicle or the 9mm.

But, I'm in Texas.

I've seen that video before...do you have a link to it? Felt sorry for the unarmed folks in that car...

ETA: Never mind... found it

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:38:32 PM EDT

[#48]

Its a simple answer.

They surround your vehicle in a threatening manner, run them over and get the hell out of town...literally.

These are people that have initiated lawlessness. Shit happens. Its unintended consequences on their part.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:49:32 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I would move forward until my truck had a pile of asshole too big to push, then ~~back up and go around.~~shift into 4 low and put my right foot to the floor.

That's what I would do with my 4x4 Ram.

ETA: AR15, pistol configuration. Short, high capacity, no tax stamp.

Posted: 7/20/2008 9:03:14 PM EDT

[#50]

"Survival scenario for all or us. Legal question for arfcom police and lawyers "

If its a real survival situation, mans law is trumped by the laws of survival. You do what you have to do. TT

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Survival scenario for all or us. Legal question for arfcom police and lawyers (Page 1 of 2)

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