User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:17:19 AM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:33:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Pretty familiar with it - did a pretty fun research paper on the whole thing back in college (far far in the distant past).
Basically, Butler was a very good Marine leader, but overall a bit of a self-important loudmouth and braggart. He had fallen out of favor with the head of the Navy in the Hoover Admin and been bypassed and shunted aside, and resented that greatly. He became an ardent and vocal supporter of Roosevelt in 1932. It was VERY unlikely that he would be approached to lead a coup against Roosevelt. Butler had also become a mouthpiece for several Communist organizations maskng themselves as pacifists and isolationists. It was never clear that Butler himself was a Communist; many of his former associated beleived he had been duped. MacGuire was not wealthy, but had some low-level Washington connections and business connections from his time with the American Legion and through his work on Wall Street. Butler claimed that MacGuire convinced hmi of the truth of the plot through a series of predictions about Washington DC activities. MacGuire also named several prominent businessmen and military officers that were supporting the move, according to Butler, but no evidence was ever found to connect MacGuire to any of them (and Butler's testimony included claims that MacGuire had met several of these people on dates when it would have been impossible to have happened, as the people in question were out of the country at the time). The congressional investigation into Butler's claims found no actual evidence of a plot, but did find that Butler had been convinced of the plot's existence. The strange finding by the committee and the absence of any criminal charges led many to beleive the entire affair had been made up by leftists to strengthen Roosevelt's popularity, while others beleived there was in fact a deep cabal of successful businessmen who wanted to overthrow Roosevelt. The situation was largely ignored by the American public as the country's attention by that time was more occupied by things like the Depression and populist movements left and right. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:34:26 AM EDT
[#3]
This is no doubt the infant state of what we are seeing today. large Corps, lobbying and pushing their own agendas.
This should have been a lesson, but no one cared to make sure it was told through the generations. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:37:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Never forget that the house un american activities committee was created by FDR to weed out "Facists".
The business plot was a bullshit commie mouth piece to frighten sheeple and strengthen FDRs hand in creating a communist dictatorship in the US. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:39:01 AM EDT
[#5]
This has been lost to history, sad to say!! Never trust big business, ever!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:02:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Are you implying the Business Plot was a farce created by FDR, or other communists? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:12:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:12:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Hollywood is actually missing out on a pretty good movie script.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:14:50 PM EDT
[#9]
/fixed |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:19:39 PM EDT
[#10]
I think they were pissed cause they got shafted during the new deal. In turn the companies helped finance |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:19:54 PM EDT
[#11]
I'd have given them a +1, FDR was a piece of shit, he needed to go, badly. We as Americans are still paying for his socialist BS.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:21:14 PM EDT
[#12]
FDR was a bully who stopped at nothing to twist and pervert American free enterprise into the hulking govt. subsidized mess it is today. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:23:06 PM EDT
[#13]
CoC prevents posting my thoughts on FDR.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:24:51 PM EDT
[#14]
My point is, regardless, big biz is what is wrong with this country. We have too many corporations with thieir own self interests trying to put their hand in how the country should be run. Weather or not it is a farce remains a myster, however today, Big Oil, Big Corps seem to think they know what is best for us.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:25:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Really, I see major Corps. as having tremendous power over the government as long as they have enough money to buy them off. Both are corrupt to the core and neither deserve any pity!! |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:28:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Big biz is why this country has what it is. Hey, Liberia doesn't have big business, go move there. Business creates wealth. Big Business creates big wealth. Big Oil, geezus fucking krist? I bet those profiteers at the quickie mart really piss you off, too! Big Business is in the business of making fucking money. Go buy some stock and get into it. Wow, maybe we should put the government in charge of everything. That should work out great, Komrade! I am sorry you suck so bad you can't make money yourself. tough shit, move to canada. Can't wait till school is back |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 12:29:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Um, no, I wasn't implying it. I flat out said it. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:23:46 PM EDT
[#18]
I really don't even know what to say. What are you basing this on? Even in school were there is always some sort of dissenting opinion, I've never heard anyone make such a claim until I came to this site. Regardless, you realize that the people implicated in the crime ALL had validated Nazi ties can kept financial contact with them? Of course it goes much more in depth than that, but I suppose they'll all just be claimed as coincidences. Between this and the WW1 thread I'm beginning to realize in 20 years, history will be replaced with pure fiction. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:25:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Well of course. All governments can be corrupt, and giant corporations are not immune from this. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:40:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Joe Kennedy had nazi ties. That major businesses did business with nazi germany is unquestioned. That they were trying to over throw the government is a bunch of bullshit. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#21]
And? FDR blatantly ignored the Constitution to create an over-arching Federal government that interfered with every aspect of individual life. I wouldn't have cried if someone had taken him out.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:46:57 PM EDT
[#22]
And again, what are you basing this on? I tried looking for arguments against, and was unsuccessful.
You would have if a bank took control of the government. |
||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:48:19 PM EDT
[#23]
If the Japanese had not attacked us, FDR would have destroyed the US. The man was worse, much worse than Carter. He make Obama white and put him in a wheel chair and you have FDR.
BTW, I am happy to report that the FDR memorial in DC is largely ignored except by homeless people looking for a place to urinate. Appropriately, the water fountains at the FDR Monument to Socialist Government do not work. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:53:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Wow... what a douche. I am talking about Lobbiest running our country. I served 6 for MY country, I pay taxes at a GOOD JOB THAT PAYS WELL. Why dont you shut your damned mouth before you go spewing this kind of crap. The problem with Big Biz in the US is that they are trying to railroad our country to make a buck. They send American jobs over seas to save on the bottom line. YOu can kiss my ass with that Komrade BS. And go figure you what the hell you are talking about before you start shitting at the mouth. Yeah go back to school and learn something productive boy.... |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:54:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Even if everything Butler said was true--and I don't think it was--you can argue about which side was really the "fascist" side. FDR was in the middle of implementing the NRA, which was creating a Mussolini-like corporatist state. It wasn't outlandish to think that the elected government would seize power and rule by dictatorship, and create something like Italy in America.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:56:53 PM EDT
[#26]
I guess I am basing it on the official investigation done by the United States Government. The only proof was the testimony of Butler. Butler wasn't exactly sane or non-biased. That the business men would approach a guy who was a supporter of Roosevelt was even more ridiculous a notion. So someone was trying to plot a military coup and yet there was no trial, no convictions and no action taken. But the socialists needed a boogeyman and the facists were great for that purpose. Stalin did the same trick. What proof do you offer, other than the testimony of one man? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:57:40 PM EDT
[#27]
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:00:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Commies suck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:03:22 PM EDT
[#29]
You are either a budding commie or just remarkably ignorant about economics. Then again, you might be both. I used to be in the compost business and I know BS when I see it. Sir, your rantings are BS of near unreachable purity. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:03:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Can you explain to my why you will come on to a discussion... a civil one at that and start name calling and telling people they need to move to Liberia or Canada? Geesh man, I guess some of us are still stuck in 6th. grade. This is meant to be a serious discussion.. not some pissing contest about who is better than who. I wasnt alive when this stuff happened. Maybe Butler fabricated some of it.. i dont know. But something was amiss and should have at least been mentioned in the annuls of the history of this great nation. I will waste no more time bantering with you with petty name calling, I shouldn't have done it in the first place, so that one is on me. Regardless, I love my country... I understand capitolism as well, but I also believe Corporate America doesnt care about Americans. Only their own selfish interests. Big Oil has been sticking it too us since 2001 as well, but nothing we can do about it, huh? Our country is still better than any other.. we just need to figure out a way to keep Corporate underhanded dealings out of our Government. The fact is, the Government (house, senate, prez, etc.) are stewards, they are intrusted with the duty of serving we the people of this nation. The Corporate world shouldnt have say in what policies are passed for My and My children and YOU and YOUR Familes. That is my take on it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:05:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Surely your not talking to me? I have not spoken at all about economics. Other than what is true about the way Corporate America seems to be railroading our country. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:05:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Tag for later. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:09:36 PM EDT
[#33]
It wasn't just one man. It was several, some who didn't even have the opportunity to speak to each other, all validating each other's story, under oath and in private. Yet no one could dispute the findings. It wouldn't be difficult to besmirch "big business" in the 30's. Considering the previous depression, they didn't need a conspiracy to anger people over it. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:10:49 PM EDT
[#34]
+1 |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:11:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Lets see where to start. Corporate America is in the business of making money and giving that money back to the owner/owners. When you use terms straight off the Daily Kos, you just look like a moron. Big Business is otherwise known as successful business. Profits go to stock holders, which is half the country. Government is in the business of protecting and defending the Laws of the United States (aka the Constitution) They are NOT in the job of looking out for people. FDR is the one who started us down the dark road of providing the common welfare instead of promoting it as dictated in the pre-amble. Big Oil is big oil because of the consolidation that occurred when oil was $10 a barrel in the 90s. Business creates wealth. Government consumes it. These are laws of nature. The sooner you figure that out, the happier (and smarter) you will be. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:13:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Name names, please. Who testified to what and when? What evidence, other than butler's testimony, was provided? |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:16:55 PM EDT
[#37]
So I assume you're completely ignorant of the event, if you're asking me to provide the names? Ok. I will, but I hope you'll actually take the opportunity to research the history behind it yourself. Sam Glazier, a reporter who's name escapes me, a guy who worked with that reporter, Zandt or Zendt (can't remember the spelling) They all testified and the facts matched up with Butler's even though only one of them had the opportunity to discuss the situation. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:17:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Your missing my point.. and I admit I mis-worded about big biz being what the problem is. I support SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES.. and BIG BUSINESSES, Big Biz isnt whats wrong, Mis-stated that one. I dont support Big Businesses having say in our DAY TO DAY lives, by sending lobbyists to push their own agendas. I also dont support an AMERICAN business sending AMERICAN jobs over seas to save a buck. I agree with you in regards to your statement about OIL, you are right on the money. But what I dont like is when I see Corps popping in every where, trying to push their own agenda via politics. Regardless, this is our Nation, it is how it is run, and as stated, its still the greatest place in the world! I am sure we can at least agree on that. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:18:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Fail. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:19:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Why has this discussion become "You're a communist if you believe the heads of big business tried to over-throw the government?"
More concerning, the comments about big business taking over the government is somehow better? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:21:30 PM EDT
[#41]
So you support the government creating conditions - through a confiscatory tax code and artificial labor wages - that makes it becomes extremely profitable to send jobs offshore? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:24:49 PM EDT
[#42]
I just wanted to see other's opinions about the whole situation. Not get called a Commie and stupid... I dont know who did what during FDR, but I do know, that I currently see alot of corporate interest groups trying to push their own agendas.. I never said they are trying to take over.. i am saying they are buying government officials, who should be there to serve our (the people) interests over Big Oil or Banks for example. Im not trying to raise the whole "conspiracy" flag, I am concerned however how our Government allows the corporate world to infiltrate our schools and etc. (10,000 ft view, I dont feel like expounding much more right now, i will save that for a later discussion) Im not a Socialist, I am not a Communist, I am an American. Period... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:27:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Ar15.com - Last Hold-out of McCarthyism |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:27:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Point taken... But how much influence does Corporate American have in those policies? We can thank Bubba Clinton for that ... Its not JUST the government that had a hand in these polcies.. its also the Lobbiest and Coporations. They saw what would help them and their investors... |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:28:37 PM EDT
[#45]
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:29:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Whoa whoa whoa... Corporate America is responsible for the confiscatory tax rate and artificial labor wages? Think about that again. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:30:42 PM EDT
[#47]
I didnt say they were responsible.. I said they had a hand in some of it. Where did I loose you there? |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:31:13 PM EDT
[#48]
The problem isn't big buisness, it's big government. We have too much socialism. FDR played a key part in that. Did you know that the Soviet Union (Stalin) wanted to endorse FDR, and CPUSA talked them out of it? CPUSA understood that an outright commie endorsement would hurt FDR more than help him. Further, the second version of the New Deal (there were three versions) was a direct lift from Italian fascist economic planning. It was rejected by Congress. Fascism isn't far right, it is actually a leftist ideology. FDR's ideas were, at the same time, more fascist and more communist than previous US government policy. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:32:20 PM EDT
[#49]
He's right. You are wrong. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2008 5:32:24 PM EDT
[#50]
You lost me right there. You think corporations had a hand in creating laws that are detrimental to them? So you think corporations hang themselves? What do you think the purpose of a corporation is? |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
