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ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.
Originally Posted By Keith_J: Are you that dumb naturally or did you have a lobotomy recently? |
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This Post Contains Personal Opinion Only & Should Not Be Considered Information Released In An Official Capacity
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ditto
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Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready. -Theodore Roosevelt
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GEAR – Carbine Sights
The best option for low light use for most people is (surprise surprise) an Aimpoint red dot. They work great in conjunction with a white light and they’ll work if you mount some sort of NV behind them. They have a long battery life, they are durable, reliable…pretty much everything you could hope to want in an optic. A decidedly inferior option to the red dot are the various tritium equipped iron sights available at least for the AR-15. These are better than straight iron sights, but once you’ve used a good red dot there really is no comparison. GEAR – Carbine Lasers. There are a number of laser systems out there for the carbine. Generally they aren’t necessary for most folks who have a red dot optic on their rifle. There are a couple of exceptions worth noting, however…. 1. Night Vision – if you are using a night vision device that is mounted on a helmet (generally the preferred method for using them) then you aren’t going to be able to look through your red dot optic to aim. This is why IR laser systems exist, to allow for an accurate aiming reference without having to have a cheek weld on the weapon. 2. Gas mask/hazmat/chem-bio suits – The masks in these suits generally prevent a decent cheek weld, meaning you probably won’t be able to use the optic/sights on your carbine. A laser system like the DBAL would be an asset here. 3. Sight-to-barrel relationship – If you have a weapon intended mainly for close quarters that has a big difference in sight to barrel relationship it may be to your advantage to mount a laser to help deal with close quarters work. An example is a Colt 9mm SMG. I was using one in a shoothouse recently that had an Aimpoint mounted to the top of the carry handle. As good as the Colt is and as good as the Aimpoint is, the combination wasn’t so hot. The Aimpoint mounted on top of the carry handle left a great deal to be desired. It made for a really nasty sight offset that complicated close range work. In that situation a Crimson Trace unit or a DBAL would have helped to deal with the sight offset issue and would have made A zone hits and headshots much easier at the close ranges found inside the shoothouse. If you aren’t in those categories you probably don’t need the laser on your weapon. Generally the sorts of guys who are in those situations are paid to carry machineguns by some sort of government entity. Edit -- GEAR -- Ammunition Something VERY few people ever stop to consider is how their carry ammo performs in low light. Most people have never shot their carry ammo at night and have no idea what sort of issues it can cause for them. I talked earlier about the "flashbulb" effect that too bright of a light can cause and why that happens. The same concern exists with the muzzle flash from various ammunition. Believe it or not muzzle flash can end up flashbulbing you and in some extreme cases everyone else within a 10 yard radius, rendering you temporarily blind. For a long time US military ammo had a flash retardant in the powder mix, but recently that practice was discontinued in the name of cutting expense. Muzzle flash falls into four basic categories: 1. Red -- this is the most desirable type of muzzle flash because the rods in our eyes don't respond to light in the red wavelengths...meaning that a red muzzle flash won't damage your night vision at all. 2. Orange -- This is not as good as red because it can actually effect your night vision somewhat, but it's still quite manageable most of the time. 3. Yellow -- This is where you start to get into flashbulb territory. Yellow muzzle flash is bright and typically interferes significantly with your night vision. Most of the FMJ practice ammo on the market that I've tried has a yellow muzzle flash. A number of duty/defensive ammo choices also have a yellow muzzle flash. 4. White -- This is the worst. A white muzzle flash gives you the full flashbulb effect and temporarily blinds you. It takes at least half a second if not longer for you to recover any useful vision. When you are in a dynamic situation it's really bad to have yourself blinded for a second or more. It can also make it almost impossible to pick up your tritium sights for several seconds after you are flashbulbed. While muzzle flash is not the most important factor in selecting ammunition for your carry/duty weapons, it is nevertheless an aspect of ammunition performance that needs to be weighed in as part of the decision. For handguns the Winchester "Ranger" line of ammunition includes a flash retardant that gives it a very mild red muzzle flash from most weapons. Speer's Gold Dot ammo tends to give a reddish-orange muzzle flash that isn't bad at all from most full sized guns. It's a bit more objectionable from compact guns. If I remember correctly Federal's HST is a bit worse than Gold Dot. The absolute worst muzzle flash that I've seen from ANY ammo, carbine or pistol is Remington's 230 grain .45 ACP Golden Saber JHP load. That produces a HIDEOUS white muzzle flash that flashbulbs EVERYONE within a 15 yard radius. It's insane...and it just happens to be the FBI choice for their 1911s. This demonstrates that even a large, well funded organization can completely miss the ball on the requirements of night fighting. Just because agency X uses load Y that doesn't make it ideally suited for your needs or for all situations. In fact, it might be a pretty stupid choice for your needs. Now for handguns there aren't many things you can do to tone down muzzle flash beyond using a full sized handgun and selecting ammo that doesn't have too much muzzle flash. Generally ammo selection is going to be the most powerful control you have over muzzle flash in your handgun. Carbines are a much different animal. There are a number of muzzle devices out there that are aimed at dealing with muzzle flash. The standard A2 birdcage hider works pretty well. The Vortex also seems to work pretty well. Things like the Noveske Krink style break are horrible from a muzzle flash point of view. They serve a purpose on short barreled weapons, but they aren't meant as an efficient means of hiding muzzle flash. Well, that’s a VERY basic run-down of gear choices and issues. I know that it’s hard to view anything that looks that long as “basic”, but it is. The next segment will deal with the most important aspect of preparing for the realities of low light fighting….TRAINING. Gear is no substitute for training, but a realistic look at the necessary gear is necessary before we talk about preparing to use it. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
In.
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American by chance, Southern by the grace of God.
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Excellent post, only got to skim it so far. Can't wait to read it in depth...
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China will go to war to get their men pie. Whether its with us, Europe, or Russia, there are 75,000,000 men in China with no possible chance to get pie... Ever. 75,000,000 angry armed virgins... They are like a Super ARFCOM - bluewaterheaven
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Mother of God.
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Nice.
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"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
- Theodore Roosevelt |
IBTAC (in before the armchair commando's).
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Back in the old days , people just died when you shot them, they didnt know you had to shoot them with a super duper woopty friggen doo round-Forum Member arsteve
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Ya, it's a bit long but if you want to cover the bases on something like this you've got to go through all that. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
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<IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_weightlift.gif border=0 align=middle>
Originally Posted By 4xDawn: Hey Killswitch, you post whoring douchbag... |
Great thread!
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Hey, it's the first wall of text I've actually read in awhile. Good writeup. |
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Excellent Post. Jives pretty good with my own low-light experiences.
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Happiness is...stepping off a C-130 onto Kuwaiti soil after 15 months in Iraq...
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كافر
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn: I'm going to pull this thread over and conduct a field sobriety test. |
Excellent write up. With the OP's permission, can we get this tacked somewhere?
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I really could use a thread to masturbate to.- Playmore Minds 12-04-2007
Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz: Palestinian kids... they blow up so fast. Proud Member Ranstad's Militia, The Fantastic Bastards. |
this should be cross posted over in the training and gear forums
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Goatboy needs to add these to the weapons library so they don't end up archived.
Along with your Glock thread. |
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Glocktalk, where Airsofters and Farm Animals peacefully co-habitate.
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Well I'm reluctant to tack my own thread but if another mod wants to do it, so be it. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
In on soon to be tacked thread.
Nice write up. Question Are the bayonet lug light mounts crappy? |
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I'd like to see a little more demonstration of the mentioned Rogers technique.
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I make noise.
http://www.allerian.com |
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...
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This Post Contains Personal Opinion Only & Should Not Be Considered Information Released In An Official Capacity
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John,
Great write up. I look forward to the training aspect. One of things I have found is regardless of what you have, it's only effective as the training time you put in to master equipment and build your skills. Training is the key to any firearm system. |
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American by chance, Southern by the grace of God.
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
I'm going to try to get more into the various techniques when I do the training aspect. (hopefully tomorrow) My personal favorite position is the Rogers technique...but the thing about flashlight techniques is that one technique does not fit all situations. You need a minumum of two techniques and preferably a familiarity with all the various techniques out there even if you don't use them all the time. My main problem with the FBI technique is that it is REALLY easy to end up back lighting yourself with it if you aren't careful, and I've seen cops do it a number of times. The idea is to get the light up and away from the body because incoming rounds will be heading for the light...but generally if someone is shooting at the light they are going to be putting rounds in the general direction of the light. The FBI technique is my least favorite technique because in my opinion it is harder to index the light and the sights in the same spot with that technique than it is with any other. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
thank you. |
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Amen. The gear writeup is longer than the training writeup will be, but it is decidedly less important than the training writeup. Gear is the easy part. Learning to use it to the level where you can use it effectively under stress is the hard part and there's no shortcut. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
Oh so
WBK |
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She's a very kinky girl
The kind you don't take home to mother She will never let your spirits down Once you get her off the street, ow girl Ronald Reagan, June 6, 1984, Omaha Beach, Normandy, France كافر |
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"We consider this our duty -- to defend humanity against the scourge of intolerance, violence, and fanaticism."
-- Ahmed Shah Massoud |
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This Post Contains Personal Opinion Only & Should Not Be Considered Information Released In An Official Capacity
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whazi s this |
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ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!
And thanks! |
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A thin veneer, indeed.
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Another reason I'm a fan of pressure switches. If you have to tuck the light to reload you don't have to worry about whether or not you remembered to turn it off as bullets are flying. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
I like using the FBI method for shooting from behind cover. Posts, short walls, etc. IMO, it's more of a search method than actually a firing method. |
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American by chance, Southern by the grace of God.
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tag.
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Poznai Sebia ... Know Yourself
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That's pretty much my take on it. Your post also points out why I stated earlier that no one technique gets it done all the time. There are just too many variables in life so you'll need multiple techniques. Personally my favorite is the Rogers technique, but I also use the Harries technique quite a bit, especially for left-handed corners. The neck index technique also has it's place, as does the FBI technique. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
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This Post Contains Personal Opinion Only & Should Not Be Considered Information Released In An Official Capacity
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The aimpoint has its limitations. If I put the brightness low enough to use in the dark, then my light washes out the dot. If I leave it bright enough to see with the light on, I can't see the target through the glare of the dot in the dark. Is there a better solution? |
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"The utmost excellence at which humanity can arrive, is a constant and determinate pursuit of virtue..."
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Nice Right up! And I really like those Warren Sights
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\m/
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Damn. A+ to you for this writeup.
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To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.
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I don't have that problem. I use my Aimpoint on the brightest setting in the peak daylight hours but for night use I knock it back a few notches and I'm good. If you can't see your dot on a reasonable night setting with your light on, I'd say that you might have a light that is entirely too bright. 60-100 lumens is the range you want to be in, with about 80 lumens being just right. What Aimpoint are you using? What light setup? That might help us figure out what is eating your lunch. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
Edited to insert a talk about ammo, a critical issue that I overlooked.
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
The Warren sights are incredible. They are the fastest sight setup I've ever found and they are more accurate than anything else I've tried. It allows enough daylight around the front sight so that you can actually see what's going on in daylight. At night it doesn't get in the way of the front sight. |
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It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.
George Washington http://www.friendsofangela.com/ |
This information is completely useless and I am NOT tagging it. Oh shit, I just tagged it.
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"Only the dead have seen the end of war" --Plato
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