Sailors sound off

Uniform testers say what’s hot, what’s not
By Mark D. Faram - [email protected]
Posted : June 09, 2008

You’ve heard all about them, and now they’re finally trickling into the fleet. In March, several dozen sailors began wear-testing the new blue and white crackerjacks. Then in May, a few lucky souls donned the new World War II-style “throwback” khakis.

So far, despite a few dings, the reviews have been mostly positive.

The service dress khaki tests will continue through August, and soon a new wrinkle will be added. A female variant of the uniform has been designed and is scheduled to roll out for the second half of the tests at the end of June.

To top it all off, a very limited wear test for the second part of the Navy’s physical training uniform — a “wind suit” — will begin later this summer. Officials hope to get it approved and into the system sometime in 2009.

For those who aren’t doing the testing, don’t just gawk at the new uniforms. Officials want you to speak up, especially since you could be wearing them soon.

“It truly is a learning experience across the board for everyone in getting these tests up and running,” said Robert Carroll, director of the Navy Uniform Matters Office in Arlington, Va.

Dress khakis
At the moment, about 118 male and female officers and chief petty officers are participating in the dress khaki tests in Washington, D.C.; Norfolk, Va.; Millington, Tenn.; and Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.

“We picked our participants carefully, and most of those selected have jobs where they travel frequently, allowing more in the fleet and around the Navy exposure to what this could look like,” Carroll said.

Some of the wear-testers are high-profile sailors such as Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (SW/FMF) Joe Campa and Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead — both of whom have been seen out and about recently in the uniform.

Adm. Mike Mullen, the former CNO who requested the uniform tests, soon will be testing it himself in his current job as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

What’s being tested is an updated version of the Navy’s iconic, World War II-era dress khaki uniform, nixed by CNO Adm. Elmo Zumwalt in the 1970s.

Two separate weights of uniforms are being tested — one with a 55 percent polyester and 45 percent wool blend, the other a 100 percent wool version.

“We are not just trying to duplicate the traditional look of the uniform,” Carroll said. “We are trying to improve the look and functionality of it as well.”

There have been major improvements in the textile industry since these uniforms were worn full time, he said, and that is expected to fix some of the reasons the uniforms were mothballed in the ’70s.

“The uniform was just considered heavy and hot back then,” Carroll said. “Cotton shirts were heavier, and uniforms were mostly tailor-made.”

Officers and chiefs will wear their silver rank insignia on the collars of the khaki shirt under the jacket, along with the standard Navy black tie for men and button tie for women.

In that configuration, no ribbons are worn on the shirt, only qualification and warfare pins.

“They’re good to go that way out and about walking with a cover,” Carroll said. “It’s a bit more casual look and more in line with what our service counterparts wear as well.”

For more formal situations, the jacket, adorned with qualification pins and ribbons, can be worn.

Men are testing only a traditional style of the jacket, with patch-style pockets and an artificial belt sewn into the middle of the jacket.

“We had proposed an alternate male version that had a more contemporary look, but the decision was made to only test the older look for men,” he said. “But for the women, we are going to test an alternate design that we believe is more appropriate for women.”

It’s too early to get a full sense of how the tests are going, but the reviews so far are glowing.

“My first impression was: I love it,” said Cmdr. Hank Roux, chief of staff for Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Mark Ferguson. “The reason is that for a guy my age — I’m in my 40s — I remember seeing people in the Navy wear this uniform in the movies when I was a kid.

“This is the one I’ve always wanted and that I’ve solicited for, every time they asked me. It’s the one I’ve been asking to bring back for over 20 years now — I was very happy we were going to test it.”

Roux said the uniform conjured up memories of John Wayne and Charlton Heston in their World War II movies of the 1940s and ’50s, and also, less seriously, Ernest Borgnine in the 1960s TV show “McHale’s Navy.”

Roux said he had no problems with the fit or details on his uniform, and said he appreciated its formal style. “I’m a fan of being a little more dressed up,” he said. “I like the tie feature.”

Master Chief Hospital Corpsman (SS) Steven Hady, senior enlisted adviser for the Navy Diversity Office, said, “overall, I like the uniform.”

“I think the shirt could fit a little better, but that’s to be expected when you get new shirts. I’ll tell you that I’ve garnered a tremendous amount of looks — I ride the Metro [rail in Washington, D.C.] to and from work every day, and civilians of various ages, especially retirees, come and talk to you to say they’re glad to see the uniform again.

“One time, a three-star Marine general stopped me in the Pentagon and said, ‘Master chief, can you hold on just one minute, I want to show my wife this uniform.’ He said, ‘This is the uniform I used to wear when I was a midshipman at the Naval Academy.’”

But younger sailors, particularly younger women, don’t get the retro appeal of the new-old khakis, Hady said. “They’ll look at it and say, ‘The uniform looks good on you, but it’s so retro I don’t think I care for it.’”

Hady also worried that if the Navy began adding the uniform to chiefs’ and officers’ seabags, it might bump a good existing uniform or force people to carry too many clothes on sea tours.

“It’s very useful and functional for those of us on staff duty, but I’m not sure how useful it’d be on ship duty. My concern would be, if I take this with me, what uniform do I leave behind?”

Capt. Jack Hanzlik, Ferguson’s spokesman, said he likes the lightweight material in the uniform as the weather in Washington begins to get warmer. Hanzlik also praised the flexibility of the shirt and jacket combination. “If you need to go more formal, you can throw on the jacket and go more formal,” he said.

Hanzlik said his main concern was the material from which the trousers were made, which on his test uniform was different from the wool-polyester combination in use on other test khakis, and also different from the material in his test jacket. The trouser material shouldn’t be different from the jacket, Hanzlik said. “I’ve got to have a good combination between the two. I don’t want to own different types of khakis.”

New look for women
A new female variant of the khakis will be tested soon, based on initial feedback from women who say that the “throwback” look is unflattering to them.

“This uniform was never worn by women before, and initial feedback is that it looks too masculine,” Carroll said. “So we have produced an alternate version that looks much better, and the female wear testers will shift into that for the final two months of the wear tests in the beginning of July.”

Based in part on the current female service dress blue jacket, it is single breasted with no pockets, just decorative flaps.

“Those design features are to make it similar in appearance to the male version; however, it’s cut or designed to look like something worn by a female, and it is much easier to alter to accommodate different body styles,” Carroll said.

The women’s khaki wear test will be more comprehensive than the men’s test, trying not just the traditional and contemporary jackets, but also a totally new look for women.

“Females are testing three blouses: two have a tucked-in look, one with long sleeves and one with short sleeves,” he said. “But we are also going to test an overblouse with short sleeves — a look the E-6 and below women will start wearing when we roll out the new service uniform.”

The test also includes a new no-belt pant, like the new enlisted service uniforms.

“I think the female participants appreciate this style of pant. We have received complaint upon complaint from female chiefs and officers about the currently issued khaki slacks, [saying they] are just not flattering to many female body types — this can fix that.”

Already, Carroll says, the uniform is popular. He was swamped with requests to wear test the duds, with more volunteers than uniforms available.

But, he said, it’s a ways off from being a finished product. Even after the wear tests, the final decision on whether to bring them back will be Roughead’s to make.

“I really don’t think we have it right yet,” Carroll said. “There’s certain things we’ve identified with fabric and construction that need to be addressed; for example, the shirt is supposedly wrinkle free, in some cases especially if you are going from wearing the jacket to just the shirt and the shirt just doesn’t look the way we’d like it — so we’re already looking at those things.”

White crackerjacks
For junior enlisted, the proposed changes to the crackerjack uniforms could revolutionize the look of the whites and make both whites and blues more functional — though the new dress whites will more likely turn the most heads.

About 75 sailors in Key West, Fla., and Pearl Harbor are testing the uniform. The reviews were mainly positive.

The white crackerjacks are worn by men and women, Carroll said, and officials are testing features they hope will make the uniform more popular with sailors of both sexes. For different reasons, male and female sailors have said they don’t like the way the old uniform hangs on them.

Most sailors, Carroll said, feel the existing uniform lacks the tailored look of the dress blues. Lack of a cuffed sleeve also was a point of contention — all things the wear tests are working to fix.

The changes mark the first decorations to the enlisted white uniform since the early days of World War II. Before then, all enlisted sailors wore full dress white uniforms that had the same blue flap and blue cuffs that adorned their dress blues.

In the new uniform, blue piping was added to the white crackerjacks’ cuffs and flap. That essentially makes it a photonegative of its blue counterpart, complete with blue buttons on the cuffs — and a nod to the blue cuffs and flaps of the past.

“The piping really makes this uniform,” said Aviation Ordnanceman 2nd Class (AW) Kalina Smith, a six-year Navy veteran and one of the Key West wear-testers. “I have had people come up to me in grocery stores and question me about the uniform, but their comments are always positive; they like the ‘old school’ look the uniform has.”

Some of that feedback has reached Command Master Chief (SW) Bob Cote, the senior enlisted sailor at Naval Air Station Key West.

“The feedback I’m getting from the chief’s mess and officers here is the uniform is much sharper than the current uniform,” he said. “The piping stands out and the uniform isn’t baggy — which is my biggest complaint about the current whites.”

The cuffs, too, are popular, since they nullify the baggy look and make the sleeves easier to manage, Air Traffic Controller 2nd Class Tranika Lee said.

“Having them on the sleeves helps keep them out of the way at functions, they aren’t getting in the way and into food anymore — that was a problem with the old uniform,” she said.

But hers, she said, are tailored too close to the wrist and make it difficult to move her arms and wrists, a complaint other wear-testers have had as well.

“It seems to be an issue with how the uniforms were fitted to the sailors,” said Chief Air Traffic Controller (AW) Maria Humphrey, who has a number of her sailors wearing the uniforms on an almost-daily basis. “I think there’s an easy fix there — just direct a looser fit with the tailoring of the cuffs and they’ll be fine.”

Another feature is the sewn-in yoke over the breast, which is a mainstay of the blues but new to the whites.

This seam, Carroll said, breaks up the outline of the uniform while allowing it to hang better on the body, giving a sharper, more tailored look. Lee said that’s a good thing, but it needs to be moved lower for women.

“For some women, the positioning of the yoke isn’t low enough to account for a proper fit in the chest,” she said.

The jumper now includes a hidden zipper on the left side that makes it easier to put on. It’s a popular feature in custom-tailored uniforms, but one not authorized by existing Navy uniform regulations. Lee said that’s a help to women, too.

“It fits so much better and it shows off the female figure better — the current style’s fit makes us look more like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.”

A key part of the test will be the performance of the fabric, Carroll said. Each sailor was issued two sets of the uniform — a “Type A” with a lighter version, and a “Type B,” which is much heavier.

The lighter version is more popular among the wear-testers.

“I have one wear-tester who says it feels like he’s not wearing anything,” Humphrey said. “But mostly my sailors like how easy the uniform is to care for, as I had one male tester spill coffee all over it and he was able to clean it right up with no lasting stains.”

That’s because a new micro-denier fabric was developed to replace the old certified navy twill, Carroll said. The CNT cloth is notorious for its ability to attract and hold stains. Sailors typically have had to replace, rather than clean, their uniforms.

Though it’s made of polyester, the “A” version breathes much better than the current whites, and it’s not see-through.

Sailors are caring for the uniforms themselves — though officials are watching carefully to see whether the blue piping bleeds into the white fabric during machine washing. So far, it hasn’t.

“I’m simply following the care instructions we were provided with the uniforms, and I’ve been doing just fine,” Air Traffic Controller (AW) Victor Grant said.

“The Type A uniform is real easy to iron with a steam iron and a little bit of starch and it stays sharp throughout the day,” he said. “Type B is just too heavy a material — it’s not as comfortable, and I have to use heavy starch to even make it look neat. But it quickly goes back to looking like it has wrinkles in it.”

Besides the yoke being too high, Lee said the pocket over the left breast is too high as well, not leaving enough room for ribbons and warfare devices. Senior Chief Machinist’s Mate (SW) Isaac Bookheim, who is coordinating the wear tests for Cote at the Florida base, agreed.

“This is something that really should be looked at,” Bookheim said. “Once our senior petty officers start to accrue ribbons and warfare devices, it is going to be up on their shoulders — but that was a problem with the current whites, too.”

But in the end, all the Key West wear testers and their enlisted leaders feel the new look is a path the Navy needs to go down.

“It is a great-looking uniform, and of course there will be some tweaking to get it done exactly right,” he said. “I hope at the end of this it ultimately gets approved as it looks way better than what we have today.”

New blues
The new design features for the blues won’t be as visible to bystanders, and only 50 sailors are testing the changes. That’s happening in Washington, D.C., Norfolk and Millington.

Though a zipper has been added to the left side of this jumper, most say getting into the uniform for them isn’t an issue. But that’s not the case for Yeoman 1st Class Adrien Clark, who’s always had a tough time twisting his broad shoulders into the tight blues jumper.

“In my case, with my broad shoulders, it does help, but it’s really not enough,” he said. “In my opinion, it would be better for me if there was a zipper on both sides — why stop with only one?”

The most popular of the new features are the improvements to the pants.

For starters, the pants flap is fake, as another zipper has been added that goes right up the middle of the traditional flap previously secured by 13 buttons — legendary for being difficult to manipulate.

“I love the zipper, it sure makes things easier when you are in a bit of a hurry,” Yeoman 2nd Class Tyrone Dickens said. “But my favorite feature is the extra pockets having the zipper in place makes possible.”

Dickens says he’s now able to carry not only his wallet and his cell phone in the pants, but he can do it without altering the look of the uniform.

“They have really made it much more functional this way,” he said.

If there’s one thing the sailors are split on, it’s the new, lighter fabric. It’s a lightweight gabardine wool, designed make the uniform comfortable for year-round wear.

“In my opinion, it’s not a good thing if you are standing watch on the quarterdeck or pier in the winter — it’s just not warm enough,” Dickens said.

Clark disagreed, saying the new lightweight fabric will make the uniform easier to wear more often and much more comfortable for travel — something the uniform often is used for.

But Yeoman 1st Class (SS) James Saling said he’s finding another problem — the material was not standing up to frequent dry cleaning after only a month of wear testing.

“It’s fading, and you can see it on the pant legs,” he said. “It appears to be a real issue here.”

And unlike the whites, the blues testers are finding the lighter material is also not holding creases as long as they would like.

“I’m finding that I have to press these myself because the lighter material isn’t [holding] the creases at all,” Religious Program Specialist 2nd Class Montana Sor said. “That’s a real problem when you are trying to look sharp all through the day.”

The service dress khaki was a nice uniform.  Getting rid of it was just like the other Zumwalt uniform changes, fucked up.

You could wear it with the blouse(jacket, just the long sleeved shirt, with the combination cap, and I saw it worn with the p-cutter (which was shaky), and I saw it worn with a short sleeve shirt, when the wearer expected it to be worn covered by the blouse but expected it to be too hot for the blouse over long sleeves.  And if you took the tie off it was the work khaki uniform for shipboard.  The 100% cotton material being much safer in a shipboard environment.

I liked them.

if they weren't coveralls, i tried my damnest not to be caught dead in them.

Quoted: if they weren't coveralls, i tried my damnest not to be caught dead in them.

+1

I can't wait for SDKs to make a comeback.


I'm not sure why the PT uniform wear tests are taking so long. This should have been done a long time ago. What the hell, it's a friggen jogging suit. The whole PT uniform should have been released at one time.

The BDU style uniform can stay, but the blue digital camouflage just has to go!

It looks like we're getting in on the navy camo act too.

Camo and reflective tape

26 Sep 2007   105/07 NEW LOOK NAVY UNIFORM The Royal Australian Navy is set to benefit from a new two-piece fire-retardant uniform, complete with improved safety boots. Much of the design for the replacement Navy uniform derives from the land warfare version introduced in the mid-90s by the Australian Army.  The two-piece uniform will align with other ADF combat uniforms in its use of the Australian Camouflage (AUSCAM) pattern, but will be unique to Navy in terms of the littoral colours used and the addition of reflective tape on the upper arms. An image of the Navy replacement uniform is available at: www.defence.gov.au/media/download There are tangible benefits in moving to a two-piece uniform in terms of health, comfort and morale.  The ability to ‘relax’ the level of dress, depending on the nature of the operation, is seen as advantageous in combating heat related illness and it will provide both male and female personnel at sea with an enhanced practical contemporary uniform, distinct to Navy. Patrol Boat crews operating in the tropical and humid environments in our northern waters are particularly looking forward to the introduction of the new uniform, and are mooted to be amongst the first recipients. There will also be a benefit of inventory rationalisation as Action Working Dress, which saw introduction in 1945, is also phased out and replaced by the two-piece uniform. Following a review of footwear, replacement safety boots will be introduced into service to provide greater comfort and the inventory will be reduced, with the alternative boot expected to do the job of five other types of footwear currently in use. Sixty thousand sets of the uniform are required for the initial delivery to the RAN and this represents a $13m dollar injection into the Australian textile and manufacturing industries. Rollout of the new two-piece fire-retardant operational uniform will commence mid-2008.

Hell no, I detest utilities. I have hated them ever since we switched in 1999. Gimme my cammies already. We should have switched to cammies the first time around, not these uncomfortable poorly fitted janitor duds we're currently wearing.

height=8

Quoted: It looks like we're getting in on the navy camo act too. Camo and reflective tapeheight=8 26 Sep 2007   105/07 NEW LOOK NAVY UNIFORM The Royal Australian Navy is set to benefit from a new two-piece fire-retardant uniform, complete with improved safety boots. Much of the design for the replacement Navy uniform derives from the land warfare version introduced in the mid-90s by the Australian Army.  The two-piece uniform will align with other ADF combat uniforms in its use of the Australian Camouflage (AUSCAM) pattern, but will be unique to Navy in terms of the littoral colours used and the addition of reflective tape on the upper arms. An image of the Navy replacement uniform is available at: www.defence.gov.au/media/download There are tangible benefits in moving to a two-piece uniform in terms of health, comfort and morale.  The ability to ‘relax’ the level of dress, depending on the nature of the operation, is seen as advantageous in combating heat related illness and it will provide both male and female personnel at sea with an enhanced practical contemporary uniform, distinct to Navy. Patrol Boat crews operating in the tropical and humid environments in our northern waters are particularly looking forward to the introduction of the new uniform, and are mooted to be amongst the first recipients. There will also be a benefit of inventory rationalisation as Action Working Dress, which saw introduction in 1945, is also phased out and replaced by the two-piece uniform. Following a review of footwear, replacement safety boots will be introduced into service to provide greater comfort and the inventory will be reduced, with the alternative boot expected to do the job of five other types of footwear currently in use. Sixty thousand sets of the uniform are required for the initial delivery to the RAN and this represents a $13m dollar injection into the Australian textile and manufacturing industries. Rollout of the new two-piece fire-retardant operational uniform will commence mid-2008. www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2007/sep/20070926/20070926adf0000_01_th.jpg www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2007/sep/20070926/20070926adf0000_02_th.jpg

I'm seeing spots!

these made the biggest "splash"

Quoted: Hell no, I detest utilities. I have hated them ever since we switched in 1999. Gimme my cammies already. We should have switched to cammies the first time around, not these uncomfortable poorly fitted janitor duds we're currently wearing.

We're the last service still requiring Sailors to spend time and money preparing their "working uniforms."

Get some wash-and-wear BDU type working uniforms and no shine boots to the Fleet.

<Terrible Terry Tate> "It ain't hard, baby!" <TTT>

The Australian uniform has some nice features.  Something relatively universal, with some safety features (fire resistant, pull out reflective tabs, pockets that easily drain.)

The utility uniforms worn by sailors in the 70's and prior to that were the best option at the time and since then. Any and every uniform change since then has been an exercise in making work for the O's or making money from the average enlisted soldier. Put simply I was an engineer from 76-80 on a steam powered ship and the only people who where as hard on there uniforms as engineers were deck hands. The three sets of utilities I started out with were still in very good condition after 4 years of welding and working in the worst environments aboard ship, on the other hand the newer sea farers they began selling in the late 70's I could wreck inside of a couple of weeks. That's too expensive for the average sailor, so if you want an answer to this so called problem follow the money trail and find out who's being paid off to make issues of these uniform changes.  

Quoted: The service dress khaki was a nice uniform.  Getting rid of it was just like the other Zumwalt uniform changes, fucked up. You could wear it with the blouse(jacket, just the long sleeved shirt, with the combination cap, and I saw it worn with the p-cutter (which was shaky), and I saw it worn with a short sleeve shirt, when the wearer expected it to be worn covered by the blouse but expected it to be too hot for the blouse over long sleeves.  And if you took the tie off it was the work khaki uniform for shipboard.  The 100% cotton material being much safer in a shipboard environment. I liked them.

I would have loved those. It was always my favorite from all the WWII movies.

Quoted: these made the biggest "splash" "Flap" www.dropbottoms.com/images/camo/camoanimation.gif

fixed it

Quoted: Master Chief Hospital Corpsman (SS) Steven Hady, senior enlisted adviser for the Navy Diversity Office, said, “overall, I like the uniform.”

WTF is the Navy Diversity Office?  

I like the description of the throwback Dress Whites. If they add the cuffs like on the Blues, will we see whites with liberty cuffs? Do sailors even get liberty cuffs anymore?

I spent some time on a boat, watching the enlisted sailors take dress uniforms out of foot lockers all folded wrinkled to shit that should have been hung up on hangers made me think that sailors at sea do not decide on uniforms its pogues in DC that decide.

Quoted: Quoted: I can't wait for SDKs to make a comeback. I'm not sure why the PT uniform wear tests are taking so long. This should have been done a long time ago. What the hell, it's a friggen jogging suit. The whole PT uniform should have been released at one time. The BDU style uniform can stay, but the blue digital camouflage just has to go! How about an orange digital pattern to make over board sailors easier to find?  The search and rescue lenses sold by Ranger are remarkable for making orange contrast against the background. ; I'm half serious.

The color really doesn't matter much. You'll get far more visibility by waving your arms and splashing. When you're overboard all that's really exposed is your shoulders and head.

Now the Aussies at least have the right idea. A reflective strip to help find people in a smoke-filled space.

Quoted: Any and every uniform change since then has been an exercise in making work for the O's or making money from the average enlisted soldier.

Hold the phone there shipmate. Task Force Uniform was/is headed up by a Master Chief. You can pin blue digital camouflage straight on the previous MCPON, Terry "Pornstache" Scott. The Master Chief who headed up Task Force Uniform originally retired and is now in the government employ in a position that didn't exist before he got there.

Quoted: Quoted: Any and every uniform change since then has been an exercise in making work for the O's or making money from the average enlisted soldier.   Hold the phone there shipmate. Task Force Uniform was/is headed up by a Master Chief. You can pin blue digital camouflage straight on the previous MCPON, Terry "Pornstache" Scott. The Master Chief who headed up Task Force Uniform originally retired and is now in the government employ in a position that didn't exist before he got there.

I'LOL at teh Pr0nstace reference.

Quoted: I like the description of the throwback Dress Whites. If they add the cuffs like on the Blues, will we see whites with liberty cuffs? Do sailors even get liberty cuffs anymore?

You remember Liberty Cuffs??? You must be older than almost everybody here.

Quoted: Quoted: I like the description of the throwback Dress Whites. If they add the cuffs like on the Blues, will we see whites with liberty cuffs? Do sailors even get liberty cuffs anymore? You remember Liberty Cuffs??? You must be older than almost everybody here.

Remember them.  Hell, I have them

I dont think they should touch our dress blues..  The buttons are a PIA and the jumper can be tough to wiggle into but the act of manipulating the buttons and fit into the jumper and look sharp is something a sailor should take pride in doing.  They are making the wearing of these uniforms cveniant but i see it as dumbing down the uniform.  I do like th idea of making the whites a photo negative of the blues and I hate CNT..

Maybe the powers-that-be could take the time, effort and money they spend covering up fat bodies in new dresses every few years and develop, fund, equip and DEMAND sailors (and their commands...hear that skipper?) to maintain a fitness level comparable to our brethren...

...the Marines...

Then sailors would look good, feel good, work good and stay alive in whatever they wear...

...even butt-ass naked.....

Otherwise fat fucks in any Navy uniform are...

...well...

...fat fucks...

IMHO of course.



CPO SWCC US Navy (Retired)  

Quoted: Maybe the powers-that-be could take the time, effort and money they spend covering up fat bodies in new dresses every few years and develop, fund, equip and DEMAND sailors (and their commands...hear that skipper?) to maintain a fitness level comparable to our brethren...

The USN has never been serious about a "Culture of Fitness" other than using it as a motto and a force shaping tool.

Quoted: Quoted: Maybe the powers-that-be could take the time, effort and money they spend covering up fat bodies in new dresses every few years and develop, fund, equip and DEMAND sailors (and their commands...hear that skipper?) to maintain a fitness level comparable to our brethren... The USN has never been serious about a "Culture of Fitness" other than using it as a motto and a force shaping tool.

We had a junior sailor get a DRB for saying that same exact thing and the CMC and a couple CPO's overheard it..  The USN knows it and should be ashamed of themselves for using the PRT as a force shaping tool.

Quoted: I can't wait for SDKs to make a comeback. I'm not sure why the PT uniform wear tests are taking so long. This should have been done a long time ago. What the hell, it's a friggen jogging suit. The whole PT uniform should have been released at one time. The BDU style uniform can stay, but the blue digital camouflage just has to go!

The PT uniform sucks.  Probably for most Sailors it is fine.  As a guy who is a serious endurance athlete, I'm not very happy.  The shirt is decent, but the cut of the shorts is a long way from what most decent running shorts offer.

Don't know why we had to recreate the wheel here.  With the volume, the Navy could have gotten a sweetheart deal with Brooks for podium T shirts and one of their running short lines - absolutely the best gear on the market IMO.  Oh yeah, the official PT uniform can't be washed in ship's laundry.  Can't wait to see how the USN fucks up the cold weather gear.

Not looking forward to blue BDUs either or the return of Service Dress Khaki.  We need less friggin uniforms, not more.  One year-round ship uniform and one year-round shore uniform OR one summer uniform, at sea and ashore and one winter, at sea and ashore - working uniforms of course.

It's about time for me to retire, I'm afraid.

What military men really want are uniforms that don't need ironing or dry cleaning. Oh yeah, the Navy has some of the fattest and ugliest women around. The USMC has some a lot of suprisingly hot ones, and the USAF is the best. The Army and CG are battling for the middle.

Great
And how much is all this nonsense costing us?

So are the sailors going to keep the Dixie Cup?

never mind....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like the description of the throwback Dress Whites. If they add the cuffs like on the Blues, will we see whites with liberty cuffs? Do sailors even get liberty cuffs anymore? You remember Liberty Cuffs??? You must be older than almost everybody here. Remember them.  Hell, I have them

I got'em on my liberty dress blues I had made in Subic. OK, yes, I'm probably older than most here.

I'm sooooo glad that I don't have to deal with the ever-changing seabag. I lived through double-breasted blues for everyone, the return of crackerjacks, Salt and Peppers, tropical whites, dixiecups with everything, winter working blues, dungerees, seafarers, utilities, coveralls for everyone and when I joined NCW in the reserves, BDUs.

Quoted: Quoted: I can't wait for SDKs to make a comeback. I'm not sure why the PT uniform wear tests are taking so long. This should have been done a long time ago. What the hell, it's a friggen jogging suit. The whole PT uniform should have been released at one time. The BDU style uniform can stay, but the blue digital camouflage just has to go! The PT uniform sucks.  Probably for most Sailors it is fine.  As a guy who is a serious endurance athlete, I'm not very happy.  The shirt is decent, but the cut of the shorts is a long way from what most decent running shorts offer. Don't know why we had to recreate the wheel here.  With the volume, the Navy could have gotten a sweetheart deal with Brooks for podium T shirts and one of their running short lines - absolutely the best gear on the market IMO.  Oh yeah, the official PT uniform can't be washed in ship's laundry.  Can't wait to see how the USN fucks up the cold weather gear. Not looking forward to blue BDUs either or the return of Service Dress Khaki.  We need less friggin uniforms, not more.  One year-round ship uniform and one year-round shore uniform OR one summer uniform, at sea and ashore and one winter, at sea and ashore - working uniforms of course. It's about time for me to retire, I'm afraid.

I'm all for SDK and no white uniforms whatsoever. That's a half a uniform in, two uniforms out, if I had my way. Just use the dress blues for really formal occasions.

Here's the uniforms I'd have:
Officers/Chiefs:
Dress Blues (Full dress, but no mess dress. No penguin suits. No bozo dress. Full dress is good enough. Mini-medals and bowties are gay.) I would allow relaxed dress blues with the sweater/Ike jacket for office work.
Service Dress Khakis (assumption here is that SDKs will be an offshoot of service khakis, i.e. poly-wool, not a completely new uniform)
Service Khakis (really just a subset of the SDKs) Perhaps a long-sleeved version of the Poly-wool for winter.
Working Uniform (BDUs with reflective strips. Not blue digital cammies.)
Real working uniform (flight suits, poopy suits, coveralls)

For the enlisted guys:
Dress blues
Dress whites
Year round "service" working uniform (the khaki shirt/black pants)
Working Uniform (BDU thing again, no digital cammies)
Real working uniform

That's six uniforms each counting the PT uniform. I would even propose getting rid of the dress whites for the enlisted guys.

I've heard the problems with the shorts. I wouldn't know. It doesn't debut up here until August. This whole thing shouldn't have been an issue. There is enough excellent off the shelf gear to take and slap a reflective "Navy" on it and call it a day. Hell, Under Armor has something that looks very similar to the Navy PT uniform on the shelf TODAY, reflective Navy and all!

Quoted: Great And how much is all this nonsense costing us?

I would be worried about the real money on things like this:
http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2008/06/lcs-1-spirals-out-of-control-again.html

As of yesterday, I'm on terminal leave till 31 Aug 2008. (that's 90 days!!!)

At which time I will officialy be USN-RETIRED!!!  


I'm really glad I didn't have to get into the whole new uniform mess.

Why does the Navy need so many different uniforms? Why cant they do like the other services and just have 2 basic uniforms, a fancy look good uniform and a work uniform?

I still have a year to go and that means shelling out a lot of gun money on uniforms

Quoted: What military men really want are uniforms that don't need ironing or dry cleaning. Oh yeah, the Navy has some of the fattest and ugliest women around. The USMC has some a lot of suprisingly hot ones, and the USAF is the best. The Army and CG are battling for the middle.

When I was an instructor, there was a Navy officer that had a class down the hall.  She was blonde, statuesque and beautiful.  We usually conducted class with the doors open.  When you could hear her heels clicking on the floor all conversation stopped, all eyes went to the door until she passed.  She looked like an angel in those whites!

About the same time, we had an AF female in the class that wore skirts that pushed the limits , still legal but just barely.  Another female complained about her skirts, so she switched to pants--dark blue, tight, knits.  We all wanted to send the complaining female a thank you note.

Quoted: Hell no, I detest utilities. I have hated them ever since we switched in 1999. Gimme my cammies already. We should have switched to cammies the first time around, not these uncomfortable poorly fitted janitor duds we're currently wearing.

The utilities are 1,000 times better than the prison issue dungarees or the original utilities uniform. I missed out on the original utilities by less than a year and wore the dungaree uniform for almost 9 years.

I 100% agree with you when you say we should have gone with the cammies the first time around.

When I was with Operation Deep Freeze we were issued 1950's Marine style greens for wear in Antarctica as a working uniform.



They were actually a comfortable long wearing WORKING uniform.

The best uniform is a flight suit with a ball cap.  

Quoted: You can pin blue digital camouflage straight on the previous MCPON, Terry "Pornstache" Scott. The Master Chief who headed up Task Force Uniform originally retired and is now in the government employ in a position that didn't exist before he got there.

That's what all good Master Chiefs and El-Kadars do, they either make a billet for themselves before they retire or else write the point paper for that billet to be converted to a sillyvillian GS/contract position (with themselves being in the running of course).  

So, now that you are getting digital cammies...... when are you swapping out the dixie cups for berets?

Quoted: When I was an instructor, there was a Navy officer that had a class down the hall.  She was blonde, statuesque and beautiful.  We usually conducted class with the doors open.  When you could hear her heels clicking on the floor all conversation stopped, all eyes went to the door until she passed.  She looked like an angel in those whites!

I was TAD to VAQ-33 out of NAS Key West in '83 going to FRAMP.

One afternoon the entire squadron and the entire FRAMP was called to an open Captains Mast on the hanger bay.

We were in formation, the CO came out and told us to sit down, it was going to be a long session.

One of the division officers, LT. Patty Denkler, a pilot who flew EA-6A's came up to the podium stand in her whites and went to attention.

We were sitting behind her, before the guy who was going to mast was called the CO put the podium stand people at ease.



The sun was shining into the hanger, and she was standing in it.

Those dress white skirts don't hide a thing.

I thought the crusty old First Class who was our instructor was going to have a heart attack right there.  

Quoted: So, now that you are getting digital cammies...... when are you swapping out the dixie cups for berets?

Raspberry Berets.  

Quoted: What military men really want are uniforms that don't need ironing or dry cleaning. Oh yeah, the Navy has some of the fattest and ugliest women around. The USMC has some a lot of suprisingly hot ones, and the USAF is the best. The Army and CG are battling for the middle.

as a squid who was TAD to an air scout base for a short period of time, i have the authority to say- this man speaks the truth!

Quoted: As of yesterday, I'm on terminal leave till 31 Aug 2008. (that's 90 days!!!) At which time I will officialy be USN-RETIRED!!!   I'm really glad I didn't have to get into the whole new uniform mess.

Congrats and thank you for your service.  I have one year left until eligible, but I'll probably stick around for 2-3 more.

Quoted: Quoted: As of yesterday, I'm on terminal leave till 31 Aug 2008. (that's 90 days!!!) At which time I will officialy be USN-RETIRED!!!   I'm really glad I didn't have to get into the whole new uniform mess. Congrats and thank you for your service.  I have one year left until eligible, but I'll probably stick around for 2-3 more.

Thank You.

It sure is a nice feeling, I gotta tell ya.

Quoted: Quoted: When I was an instructor, there was a Navy officer that had a class down the hall.  She was blonde, statuesque and beautiful.  We usually conducted class with the doors open.  When you could hear her heels clicking on the floor all conversation stopped, all eyes went to the door until she passed.  She looked like an angel in those whites! I was TAD to VAQ-33 out of NAS Key West in '83 going to FRAMP. One afternoon the entire squadron and the entire FRAMP was called to an open Captains Mast on the hanger bay. We were in formation, the CO came out and told us to sit down, it was going to be a long session. One of the division officers, LT. Patty Denkler, a pilot who flew EA-6A's came up to the podium stand in her whites and went to attention. We were sitting behind her, before the guy who was going to mast was called the CO put the podium stand people at ease. The sun was shining into the hanger, and she was standing in it. Those dress white skirts don't hide a thing. I thought the crusty old First Class who was our instructor was going to have a heart attack right there.

I think, if its the same aviator, that I met Patty Denkler in about 1985.  She made quite an impression.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I was an instructor, there was a Navy officer that had a class down the hall.  She was blonde, statuesque and beautiful.  We usually conducted class with the doors open.  When you could hear her heels clicking on the floor all conversation stopped, all eyes went to the door until she passed.  She looked like an angel in those whites! I was TAD to VAQ-33 out of NAS Key West in '83 going to FRAMP. One afternoon the entire squadron and the entire FRAMP was called to an open Captains Mast on the hanger bay. We were in formation, the CO came out and told us to sit down, it was going to be a long session. One of the division officers, LT. Patty Denkler, a pilot who flew EA-6A's came up to the podium stand in her whites and went to attention. We were sitting behind her, before the guy who was going to mast was called the CO put the podium stand people at ease. The sun was shining into the hanger, and she was standing in it. Those dress white skirts don't hide a thing. I thought the crusty old First Class who was our instructor was going to have a heart attack right there.   I think, if its the same aviator, that I met Patty Denkler in about 1985.  She made quite an impression.

Maybe the same one.  My experience was around '84-85