So as not to further derail HKShooter03's interesting thread on race, I figure I will extrapolate my post there to it's own thread.

Obama is merely the latest major black public figure to say we need to have a "frank discussion on race", yet curiously neither he nor anybody else I've seen (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc) has ever begun anything to that effect.

Could it be that the only "frank discussion" they want is to pander to minorities and make them ever more dependent on the nanny-state?

Because we (as a nation, blacks, whites, and everyone else) have bent over backwards to be inclusive and not divisive, why is such a thing necessary? The "economic opportunities" the talking heads continue to say is denied exclusively to blacks (and blacks alone, which ignores how many poor whites there are) is just a code phrase for "more handouts"...?

Please if you post here keep it civil. I am only trying to pick apart Obama's (and other racists') ideology here, not slag entire races...

When the race card sharks say they want a "frank discussion on race," what they mean is, "Let's talk about how all white people are racists who are keeping us down."

If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin.

IBTL

A "frank discussion on race" would not work out very well for the Sharpton/Jackson/Obama crowd.

Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin.

QFT

Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin.

bingo.

Quoted: IBTL

No, that's not what I'm hoping for at all.

I didn't even start to discuss how I think Affirmative Action had it's place way back in the day, but now it's just a crutch, an admission that blacks do not feel they themselves are equal to whites so they rely on quotas to get hired.

It's outdated. If we're equal (and I believe we are) then no quotas should be necessary.

At an old job I had (employee breakdown in my area: about half black half white, with a high turnover rate) we ALL used to laugh when we'd see more than 2 black job candidates interviewing at the same time... We'd all turn to each other and say "Quota time!"

Quoted: Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin. QFT

No, he is correct.

Quoted: Quoted: IBTL No, that's not what I'm hoping for at all. I didn't even start to discuss how I think Affirmative Action had it's place way back in the day, but now it's just a crutch, an admission that blacks do not feel they themselves are equal to whites so they rely on quotas to get hired. It's outdated. If we're equal (and I believe we are) then no quotas should be necessary. At an old job I had (employee breakdown in my area: about half black half white, with a high turnover rate) we ALL used to laugh when we'd see more than 2 black job candidates interviewing at the same time... We'd all turn to each other and say "Quota time!"

It's when we start talking about these subjects usually people start pissing matches with each other and then it gets locked.

Well ,I've learned as "typical white person" that I've been bitter and I cling to my guns .

My Christianity is somewhat in doubt and I wouldn't have a frank conversation or any other kind of conversation on race w/ a 10 foot pole at this point .

It could be that I'd learn more about myself than I could stand

Rocklock

Quoted: Quoted: IBTL No, that's not what I'm hoping for at all. I didn't even start to discuss how I think Affirmative Action had it's place way back in the day, but now it's just a crutch, an admission that blacks do not feel they themselves are equal to whites so they rely on quotas to get hired.

I do not believe Martin Luther King would have supported "Affirmative Action".

Many times I've actually sat and wondered how discrimination against a new group could cure discrimination.  Must have to be a liberal Dim for that to compute.



5sub

Quoted: [snip It's when we start talking about these subjects usually people start pissing matches with each other and then it gets locked.

Some people probably can't handle it, sure...

I just go back to this concept: Are we all equal, or not?

I believe we are.

edit: And if we are equal... Perhaps we should either drop all quotas or add quotas for whites being hired at black-owned/run businesses. Does it not make sense that the policies would be the same, if we're all equal?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin. QFT No, he is correct.

Which is why I would assume he posted QFT, "Quoted For Truth".

Quoted: When the race card sharks say they want a "frank discussion on race," what they mean is, "Let's talk about how all white people are racists who are keeping us down."

Exactly.

Quoted: I just go back to this concept: Are we all equal, or not? I believe we are.

Certainly we are all CREATED EQUAL.





5sub

Nevermind, it's been covered.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin. QFT No, he is correct. Which is why I would assume he posted QFT, "Quoted For Truth".

Oh fuck me in the goat ass. I thought it was "quit fucking talking."

Hi, I'm Joseph. I'll be your fucking noob for the day.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin. QFT No, he is correct. Which is why I would assume he posted QFT, "Quoted For Truth". Oh fuck me in the goat ass. I thought it was "quit fucking talking." Hi, I'm Joseph. I'll be your fucking noob for the day.

Oh fuck me in the goat ass.......

Cows are sacred in India.....GOATS are sacred here.  





5sub

Why would Sharpton, Jackson or for that matter Obama want to "solve" racial issues?

Racial issues are how they get donations and "power" if they really built racial harmony they'd be out of a job. Period....


If Dems did half of what they have promised for the poor, weak, wounded and crazy over the last 40 yrs what would they run on?

Hell frankly both parties have a few core issues that they will never ever solve because if they did they'd have to really find jobs. And we allow it we facilitate this fraud.

Guns? GOP isn't going to ever make 2A cut and dry final the GOP knows a few careful statements about RKBA gets hard core support and votes and money. And Dems will never make a total ban. They make too much money and get too many votes from anti gun support.

Abortion? GOP will never get Roe V Wade overturned completely. Hell if they did we'd be run over with unwanted kids that would become a major burden on society and lots of folks that work in that "industry" unemployed or under employed. Financial mess. Dems likewise count on rabid pro choice votes and donors.

Social Security? Same thing

Healthcare same thing

I know this got a bit off race lol but the reality is politics, politicians and activists all at some level do not want to solve the issues especially major ones folks are passionate about.

I think we the people are to blame. Every election we focus on our pet causes and politicians take advantage of that. Look at politics for the last 40 yrs. Every election season same issues, same tripe spewed at us and same issues are still here.

Either our government/politicians are the most ineffective, worst managed, poorly directed group of workers in the entire world or they aren't REALLY trying to solve problems.

How long has Roe V Wade been an attention getter and vote grabber for both parties? Seriously if it ain't fixed yet it won't be. Especially since the solution is easy.

So the question is how long will we allow politicians to call for a frank discussion on race, allow RKBA to constantly be tested and pulled apart, abortion rights totally unresolved?

I am guessing for another 40-60 yrs at least.

We'll sit around and say wow Joe Blow just said he is strong RKBA or strong anti abortion in his speeches (never does a damn thing about it) but he speaks strong. He is labeled a conservative has my vote...

Sad...

Quoted: Why would Sharpton, Jackson or for that matter Obama want to "solve" racial issues? Racial issues are how they get donations and "power" if they really built racial harmony they'd be out of a job. Period.... If Dems did half of what they have promised for the poor, weak, wounded and crazy over the last 40 yrs what would they run on? Hell frankly both parties have a few core issues that they will never ever solve because if they did they'd have to really find jobs. And we allow it we facilitate this fraud. Guns? GOP isn't going to ever make 2A cut and dry final the GOP knows a few careful statements about RKBA gets hard core support and votes and money. And Dems will never make a total ban. They make too much money and get too many votes from anti gun support. Abortion? GOP will never get Roe V Wade overturned completely. Hell if they did we'd be run over with unwanted kids that would become a major burden on society and lots of folks that work in that "industry" unemployed or under employed. Financial mess. Dems likewise count on rabid pro choice votes and donors. Social Security? Same thing Healthcare same thing I know this got a bit off race lol but the reality is politics, politicians and activists all at some level do not want to solve the issues especially major ones folks are passionate about. I think we the people are to blame. Every election we focus on our pet causes and politicians take advantage of that. Look at politics for the last 40 yrs. Every election season same issues, same tripe spewed at us and same issues are still here. Either our government/politicians are the most ineffective, worst managed, poorly directed group of workers in the entire world or they aren't REALLY trying to solve problems. How long has Roe V Wade been an attention getter and vote grabber for both parties? Seriously if it ain't fixed yet it won't be. Especially since the solution is easy. So the question is how long will we allow politicians to call for a frank discussion on race, allow RKBA to constantly be tested and pulled apart, abortion rights totally unresolved? I am guessing for another 40-60 yrs at least. We'll sit around and say wow Joe Blow just said he is strong RKBA or strong anti abortion in his speeches (never does a damn thing about it) but he speaks strong. He is labeled a conservative has my vote... Sad...

But true.

When Obama or any of his ilk use the phrase "frank discussion on race"  what they really mean is that they want reparations.

It might be college scholarships, affirmative action, or midnight basketball programs, but one thing is certain:  They want free stuff from the "Government"  

How long has Roe V Wade been an attention getter and vote grabber for both parties? Seriously if it ain't fixed yet it won't be. Especially since the solution is easy.

Never mind that "ROE" now opposes her law and has opposed for years.



5sub

Sure.
Can I be Frank?

Quoted: Quoted: [snip It's when we start talking about these subjects usually people start pissing matches with each other and then it gets locked. Some people probably can't handle it, sure... I just go back to this concept: Are we all equal, or not? I believe we are. edit: And if we are equal... Perhaps we should either drop all quotas or add quotas for whites being hired at black-owned/run businesses. Does it not make sense that the policies would be the same, if we're all equal?

How prevalent is this quota thing in the work place. I have been at the exec level and hired MANY people in several companies... Not once have I been told to hire anyone except the most qualified. I have never had any pressure whatsoever to hire anyone than who I wanted.

I don't doubt it happens but in reality how prevalent is this forced quota thing. I have heard 4th hand anecdotal stories but never have seen it.

Quoted: Sure. Can I be Frank?

Not if you want to remain a member !!  





5sub

I firmly believe that Obama has set back race relations about ten years.  

How can there be an honest and open national debate when the Dimocrtats have some of the black churches on the pad ??   Reverends Jesse, Al, Wright and thousands more have a vested interest in race relations remaining unsolved.
5sub

Quoted: ............. Either our government/politicians are the most ineffective, worst managed, poorly directed group of workers in the entire world or they aren't REALLY trying to solve problems. ........................

You forgot them most obvious  possibility. BOTH

Quoted: Quoted: I just go back to this concept: Are we all equal, or not? I believe we are. Certainly we are all CREATED EQUAL. 5sub

...though some are more equal than others- or so it seems.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just go back to this concept: Are we all equal, or not? I believe we are. Certainly we are all CREATED EQUAL. 5sub ...though some are more equal than others- or so it seems.

There's that crutch coming out again. Are we equals? If you say no, please explain.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just go back to this concept: Are we all equal, or not? I believe we are. Certainly we are all CREATED EQUAL. 5sub ...though some are more equal than others- or so it seems. There's that crutch coming out again. Are we equals? If you say no, please explain.

Certainly we are all created equal but do we remain equal ??  I certainly never felt equal to Einstein.  




5sub




5sub

Let's start judging people by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin.

Sounds like a call to eliminate affirmative action to me.....  

Who is this frank guy, and why are we always discussing him

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you actually tried to offer frank comments during a "frank discussion on race", you'd be branded a racist so fast it'd make your head spin. QFT No, he is correct. Which is why I would assume he posted QFT, "Quoted For Truth". Oh fuck me in the goat ass. I thought it was "quit fucking talking." Hi, I'm Joseph. I'll be your fucking noob for the day.

I usually read it as "Quite Fucking True".

The meaning is the same, and it has more flair.

"frank discussion on race",  =  slave reparations

Quoted: snip Certainly we are all created equal but do we remain equal ??  I certainly never felt equal to Einstein.   5sub 5sub

Accomplishments/merits are totally different things from equality.

Quoted: JC Watts and Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, and Alan Keyes are not invited to the discussion, I'm sure

Guys like them (and Bill Cosby and Larry Elder) are where I look for real talk about the race issue.

Cool thing is with them, there isn't a race issue. I think they would be content to live their lives never again discussing race.

Guys like them (and Bill Cosby and Larry Elder) are where I look for real talk about the race issue. Cool thing is with them, there isn't a race issue. I think they would be content to live their lives never again discussing race.

Uh, no.

Bill Cosby boycotted Cincinnati for the way the city reacted to rioters.

He was part of the "black boycott."

Quoted: Guys like them (and Bill Cosby and Larry Elder) are where I look for real talk about the race issue. Cool thing is with them, there isn't a race issue. I think they would be content to live their lives never again discussing race. Uh, no. Bill Cosby boycotted Cincinnati for the way the city reacted to rioters. He was part of the "black boycott."

Heard anything he's said recently...? It's all common sense.

He may not be a true conservative like the others mentioned, but he's still an upstanding guy. And he gave us "Himself", which remains funny and relevant to this day.

Heard anything he's said recently...? It's all common sense. He may not be a true conservative like the others mentioned, but he's still an upstanding guy. And he gave us "Himself", which remains funny and relevant to this day.

He participated in a "black boycott" of a city.

I don't care what he says, stupid actions speak louder than words.

Quoted: Heard anything he's said recently...? It's all common sense. He may not be a true conservative like the others mentioned, but he's still an upstanding guy. And he gave us "Himself", which remains funny and relevant to this day. He participated in a "black boycott" of a city. I don't care what he says, stupid actions speak louder than words.

Fine; ignore Cosby. The others stand quite solid.

Having a discussion about race here, will not go well.


IBTL


thump

Quoted: How long has Roe V Wade been an attention getter and vote grabber for both parties? Seriously if it ain't fixed yet it won't be. Especially since the solution is easy. Never mind that "ROE" now opposes her law and has opposed for years. 5sub

True but that has no legal impact or meaning. The point is these core issues many of us hold so important are merely vote getters to them

I won't be lectured about race by someone who associates with paranoid demagogues like Reverend Wright.

I'll be honest,
I'm hispanic, I'm an immigrant and I'm white. I'm not black, I;m not mulatto, I'm not Indian in any way, I am 100% caucasion and thats what I am.

My family immigrated here when I was 4 yrs old, we asked for nothing and took nothing that we didn't earn. I didn't know I was a minority until I got out of the army! it just wasn't discussed in my family. As far as we were concerned we were and are AMERICANS

I thank god every day that my folks immigrated here, in return I have served my country as a soldier and 20 yrs as a LEO.

That said I want no part of any people who try to divide us and being frank the majority of the ones using the race card to get ahead are blacks and mexicans. They need to re-focus all the energy and instead of bitching, work hard and get ahead.Which many have and should be seen as an example.

My friends and I who are of hispanic decent hate the thought of being lumped in with those who try to take advantage of the good will of america.

Even here I see many people venting their frustrations (and rightfully so IMHO)at these groups/ All I ask of you is remember hispancis differ greatly from many of this group and even from other hispanics.

I would vote for a black man or any kind of woman BUT not because of their race or gender, because of their positions on issues that are important to me and their moral fiber.

that is all.

Quoted: "frank discussion on race",  =  slave reparations

Who pays and what do they pay. Do we empty the ghettos and stick African Americans out on 40 acres in Montana with a mule? Or do we give 800 million bucks to those who were enslaved? Which I like that one, reparations to people who have actually been slaves everybody else shut the fuck up and get a job

What do franks and race have to do with one another?



Doesn't everybody love franks?

Quoted: How long has Roe V Wade been an attention getter and vote grabber for both parties? Seriously if it ain't fixed yet it won't be. Especially since the solution is easy. Never mind that "ROE" now opposes her law and has opposed for years. 5sub

The USSC should have never heard Roe v. Wade let alone made a ruling on it...  It's a states rights issue not a federal issue.  RvW is bad law to begin even without the moralistic content.