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Posted: 11/29/2007 3:59:09 AM EDT
[#1]
The back up gun is usually the smallest, lightweight uber reliable gun you have ie a .38 snubbie. If I were to find myself in a fire fight I would rather have my primary gun with a 13 round capacity than a 6 with lower powered ammo. The back up gun is for when your primary either has a catastrophic failure or you run out of ammo (hopefully you carry spare mags)
Also, if you are talking about the first shot being important, a heavy DAO from a snub nosed revolver is the last thing I would want to pull. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 3:59:54 AM EDT
[#2]
By the time your on your backup,something has went horribly wrong. and your going to be in OH shit mode. Immediate action for a revolver is pull the trigger again instead of tap rack bang.
Your back up is all about what you have left for motor skills IMO. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:07:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Yup. Simple works best for backup. You might be injured, or even just very sick. Ever been flat on your back with a really bad case of the flu? In that situation, I MIGHT be able to squeeze off a shot with a revolver; probably wouldn't be able to do anything more complicated than that. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:15:57 AM EDT
[#4]
I will carry the 340 PD as a main carry gun. Back up is for the PO-PO.
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:28:27 AM EDT
[#5]
A man after my own heart. The S&W 340PD could be the best carry gun ever made. Yeah, it's about personal preference. Some guys must have a 1911. Some need 17+ rounds....and so on. The bottom line to me is ease of carry and stopping power. The 340PD is lighter than some guys wallets. So light it easily can be carried in a front pocket and forgotten. Hell, it could be FIRED from inside a front pocket if needed. It's also a scandium/titanium mix which makes it one of the most corrosion resistant guns ever made. Carrying in FL, sweat can be a factor. Not with the 340PD. I don't think anyone would argue the virtues of the .357 round and likely +P .38's many guys use in 340's as well. The 340PD is easily accurate enough for any self defense situation. I can nail a target the size of a small plate from 25 feet all day long. I make sure I nail that target by using Crimson Trace grips, which, IMO, are an essential accessory. (Ask Larry Vickers how he feels about them if you don't believe me. Larry Vickers On C.T. Grips) Light weight. (likely the lightest weight high power carry gun ever made) Accurate. Powerful. Corrosion resistant. Easy to carry in a variety of ways. Unsurpassed reliability. To call the 340PD a BUG is relegating it to a category it should not be confined to by any experienced shooter. It makes an outstanding primary carry gun. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:28:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Less likely to jam, perhaps?
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:33:37 AM EDT
[#7]
No. The reason I pack a S&W 442 as a BUG most of the time is because: 1. It is dead nuts reliable. (The lawyer lock infected Smiths are a little more vulnerable to failure because of unwanted engagement of the lock...) If you need to fire your primary weapon, you need it to work....but brother, if you have to pull out a second handgun you REALLY need it to work. BUG carry positions often expose weapons to lots of crud and gunk buildup that can cause function issues in semi-autos. A revolver like the Smith 442 that has its operating mechanism essentially sealed off from such crud is a good idea. 2. It is that perfect blend of small and light while being just big and powerful enough to offer good performance and reasonable shootability. 3. It offers the best concealability of any handgun out there while still offering that incredible reliability mentioned earlier. The S&W J frame revolvers are the ultimate backup pieces. There's a reason why guys like Ken Hackathorn own and carry them as BUGs and sometimes as primaries. I wouldn't lead off in a gunfight with my 442 over my 1911 for the same reason that I wouldn't lead off in a gunfight with my 1911 rather than my AR. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:36:16 AM EDT
[#8]
No, backups are not just for the po-po. Folks, I hate to be the one to break this news to you, but the reality is that police gunfights are with the same sorts of scumbags who will start a fight with ordinary civilians. Ordinary citizens also purchase firearms that are not somehow immune to the phenomenon of malfunctions or parts breakage.... In fact when it comes to reliability police sidearms often have a much better track record than many of the firearms ordinary citizens conceal... Backup guns are a GOOD IDEA for EVERYONE who carries a firearm for personal defense. "Two is one, one is none..." |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:36:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Because they don't teh jam like glockz!
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:37:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Failure to fire drill for a dao revolver? Pull the trigger again!
Light weight and small package that just slips into my right front pocket in any clothes I wear. If it prints too much a piece of cardboard slips in front of it. A 5 shot smith 642 loaded with +p's in your pocket beats hell out of a 500 S&W in the safe. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:42:05 AM EDT
[#11]
While that is true, the J frames are NOT easy to shoot well under stress by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, they can be used effectively, but they take a LOT of practice to master.
I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Vickers. After playing with some CT grips I'm sold on their utility especially on J frames.
I would disagree here. The little Smith J frames are fantastic little weapons. I love mine to death.... But the reality is that if I knew a fight was coming there's no way in hell I would pick one as my primary weapon because of how difficult they are to shoot well and how little ammo they have. I've carried my little J frames as a primary on many occasions...typically occasions when I simply couldn't get away with carrying anything bigger. That being said, I was NEVER happy about it. If all you can carry is a J frame, by all means do so. But I would strongly advise carrying something bigger along with the J frame if you can pull it off. If you have to compromise, a J frame (or a *pair* of J frames) isn't a bad compromise by any stretch. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:49:32 AM EDT
[#12]
This thread got me thinking... Why hasn't someone developed a revolver-like gun which, instead of the rounds being fed through a cylinder, are instead fed in a single-stack design, similar to a stripper clip?
Every pull of the trigger would move the cartridge housing device up one round's distance, just like a revolver rotates the cylinder one turn with each trigger pull. It would be different from a semi-auto because it's the same function of a revolver, but instead of having a fat middle, the redesign would allow for a much slimmer overall size, and you could just pull the trigger again instead of the tap-rack-shoot. _MaH |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:52:02 AM EDT
[#13]
The concept is called a "harmonica" gun.... |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:52:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Didn't it come about originally when Officers with privately purchased revolvers were re-trained and issued semi's?
Carrying a revolver backup makes a bit more sense in that context? |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:52:44 AM EDT
[#15]
I've been carrying a BUG for the past 8yrs day in and day out. I either carry a Glock 22 of 23 as a primary and a S&W 642 as a back-up, on-duty or off. I usually carry the smith in my jacket pocket especially this time of year. Having heavy clothing on (ie winter jacket) that my have cinch cords and you're wearing a belt holster, try getting that primary out under life threatening conditions and place 2 well placed shots into your attackers chest cavity and see who comes out on top. I can squeeze off the revolver from inside the pocket and I'll take my chances of having the cylinder turn vs. trying to get to a primary that may or may not get hung up. Sure under the perfect conditions I'd love to have my 13 or 15 rnd auto in hand, who knows maybe those first shots gave me enough time to creat some space, get some cover, or allows me just enough time to get that primary out. Just my .02.
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:53:25 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:57:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Cheap. Reliable. Small. Light. Simple.
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:58:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Officers who carried revolvers as duty weapons were typically carrying some sort of medium or large framed wheelgun with a 4 inch or longer barrel... In addition, many made a practice of carrying a smaller revolver as a backup. When the semi-auto matured as a platform departments adopted them for duty weapons, but a lot of guys found that their small revolvers still worked great as backup pieces. The idea of the backup gun wasn't new....people serious about self defense had been packing backups for CENTURIES. Since the revolver existed lots of people made a practice of packing a couple of them. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 4:59:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Its what I pack, everyday, everywhere! |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:00:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Uh-Oh! |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:01:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Doesn't leave evidence behind.
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:02:02 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:04:23 AM EDT
[#23]
If you knew me better, that post would never have been made.  I own the rig you suggest. I use it for carry as well. To each their own.  |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:06:29 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:07:04 AM EDT
[#25]
It depends a great deal on your physiology. Personally I have absolutely no trouble concealing a full-sized handgun when I use a good holster, a good belt, and an untucked T-shirt, in addition to packing my J frame in my pocket. I've carried 1911s, USPs, Beretta 92s, Glock 17s, Sig P220s, Walther P99s, S&W revolvers (medium frame), and countless other handguns that way. Others might not be able to pull it off. That being said, I am absolutely CONVINCED that there are vast numbers of people who really *can* carry more if they would invest some time and energy into finding the right holster, belt, and clothing combo. Like an experienced fellow I know said once: "If you don't have a box full of holsters you've tried, you aren't trying hard enough..." BTW --- Galco > Bianchi |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:07:08 AM EDT
[#26]
My primary and only carry gun for 90% of my work is a S&W 342pd. That's mainly because only the most determined, organized and trained perps will stand and fight once the first shot goes off. I also can't afford to carry a larger semi auto gun. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:07:58 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:14:21 AM EDT
[#28]
I have that box-o-holsters.  Paddles, shoulder, IWB, ankle...I think there's a belly band in there somewhere too!I'm convinced we could have one hell of a holster exchange program here. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:26:35 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:35:48 AM EDT
[#30]
I agree...total waste of time. I had to buy one online, get it home, strap it on and only then relaized what a stunning waste of time it really was. It never got worn after that. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:37:24 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:38:09 AM EDT
[#32]
At least I am not alone with my box of holsters. SRM |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 5:58:13 AM EDT
[#33]
I actually find that to be a decent option. I use the Galco version to carry my 442 when I go to the gym. Can't exactly run on the treadmill with the 442 flopping around in the pocket of a pair of workout pants.... The Galco version fits pretty well and the leather holster pockets work well. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 6:35:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Am I an odd man out for carrying a 2" snub as mostly my primary?
 If I know that I will be traveling through, or in a bad part of town I will always bring a full size auto with an extra mag or 2 simply due to capacity. 95% of the time though it's my little 7 shot loaded with +P's. What do I lose in comparison to a Sub 9mm? 3 rounds maybe? Less moving parts to jam/break is a plus IMO. Some of you will probably think I am stupid for it, and maybe I am. But I am not out looking for trouble, I keep a low profile and at short distances I can draw/aim/fire just as fast as anything else I would carry. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 6:43:14 AM EDT
[#35]
COmparing Florida to VA is apples and oranges; what's hot for you is mild for them.
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Posted: 11/29/2007 7:30:28 AM EDT
[#36]
+1 I carry a 642ti, it would be perfect if it was a 340 pd. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 7:37:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Do not say that! You will completely negate the whole point of ballistic fingerprinting and microstamping!!!! 
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Posted: 11/29/2007 7:43:09 AM EDT
[#38]
My primary is a 3" barreled J-frame .357. I can hit just fine with it. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 8:40:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Another benefit to the revolver that has not been addressed yet is the fact that a revolver can be fired with any sort of grip or by any finger, not just the trigger finger. Many, if not all semiautomatic handguns rely on a good firm grip to work the slide when firing.
Additionally, if the nerves or tendons of the forearm are damaged, the strength of the hand is lessened greatly, which may induce malfunctions in an auto hangun. Many women, elderly or other people with dengenerative joint and/or muscle conditions my lack the strength to allow an automatic hangun to function properly. A revolver is easier to load and unload for them and makes a viable self defense choice. ** I realize that if you are injured in your dominate arm that you should switch to your weak hand, and that the trigger pull may be heavy in a revolver and cause trouble pulling the trigger, BUT you can use an unorthodox grip on a revolver that can permit you to work a revolver ** Revolvers also have an irregular shape to them, and tend NOT to catch on clothing as readily as an automatic, especially the Centennial line from S&W. They "ride" better in an ankle rig and in a pocket. FWIW. Regards, Gregor |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 8:41:13 AM EDT
[#40]
My 2 carry guns are a G26 and 340pd.
Right now at work I have the 340pd in my front pocket and it's no more than carrying a cell phone. The G26 is at home and it is uncomfortable to carry during the day, but I do keep it IWB holstered whenever I'm out in the public, ie, shopping, etc... My 7 yard 5 round groups with each gun are: Glock 2-3 inches. 340 5-8 inches, a little more if I'm shooting heavy .357's out of it. It's my first revolver and I've pushed about 300rds out of it and definately need more trigger time as it's a trigger that's totally new to me, BUT I do feel safe using it in any situation. One problem that I do have is that I'm terrible with speed loaders that you put in and turn to load all 5 rounds. Seems the lead catches the cylinder and always hangs them up. I'm even worse with the strip loaders as I can't get them out of the holder. I wish there was a way I could carry an extra cylinder and just pop out the old one in place of this. Need more practice. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 8:44:09 AM EDT
[#41]
For LEO's, if someone is trying to snatch your duty weapon and you want to shoot them off of you with your BUG; you need something that isn't going to jam when you're practically holding it backwards. Think about shooting around your right shoulder with the gun in your left hand. Most small semi-auto's are very sensitive to limp wristing, so they would be one shot weapons.
Personally, for that situtation, I'd take a fixed blade knife over a gun. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 8:48:18 AM EDT
[#42]
If you have an unarmed person with you in a violent encounter, you can loan them your BUG is it is a revolver. Point and pull trigger is pretty easy for them to figure out.
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Posted: 11/29/2007 8:56:04 AM EDT
[#43]
A 38 snubbie (hammerless, of course) in your pocket is better than the 1911 in your safe.
You guys are dead wrong about DOA. A nice smooth DA trigger can be shot just as accurately as a SA. I mean within the limits of adrenalized combat type shooting. Obviously, a target pistol would be SA. To give you an example of DA shooting, I once shot 18 shots into a 4" group at 25 yards with a 22 revolver, shooting DA. It's not anywhere near as hard to master as you guys let on. You can get good enough with a snubbie loaded with 38 +P to keep them all in the black at 20 yards. That's about it, unless you want to spend every weekend practicing with it. Its primary role is to be small and pocket-able. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:04:28 AM EDT
[#44]
I shoot my 642 really well. Realistically, I don't have the need for a BUG at the present. If I did, I would try one of the small semis to see which one I was better with. Sometimes you only THINK you're GTG. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:10:14 AM EDT
[#45]
If you need a BUG then your primary isn't as reliable as it needs to be.
That is why I carry a a 642. If I need to use more than 5 shots then it's a gunfight I shouldn't have gotten myself in to. ETA: I carry for personal protection, not to save the world from a crazed lunatic in wal-mart. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:11:57 AM EDT
[#46]
The average shootout involves 3 rounds total so you along with a lot of us are covered for an average encounter. A combat handgun is good if you expect combat. If I expect combat I bring a rifle. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:12:15 AM EDT
[#47]
Another benefit to the revolver that has not been addressed yet is the fact that a revolver can be fired with any sort of grip or by any finger, not just the trigger finger. Many, if not all semiautomatic handguns rely on a good firm grip to work the slide when firing.
Additionally, if the nerves or tendons of the forearm are damaged, the strength of the hand is lessened greatly, which may induce malfunctions in an auto hangun. Many women, elderly or other people with dengenerative joint and/or muscle conditions my lack the strength to allow an automatic hangun to function properly. A revolver is easier to load and unload for them and makes a viable self defense choice. ** I realize that if you are injured in your dominate arm that you should switch to your weak hand, and that the trigger pull may be heavy in a revolver and cause trouble pulling the trigger, BUT you can use an unorthodox grip on a revolver that can permit you to work a revolver ** Revolvers also have an irregular shape to them, and tend NOT to catch on clothing as readily as an automatic, especially the Centennial line from S&W. They "ride" better in an ankle rig and in a pocket. FWIW. Regards, Gregor |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:12:34 AM EDT
[#48]
...and most J frames don't come with those nice smooth triggers.
It's hard to hit a target under stress with a glass-rod-breaking 4 pound trigger pull on a 1911 that will shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yards... Much more the case with a tiny revolver with a stiff trigger pull, bad sights, and nasty recoil. J frames are great little guns, but let's be realistic about their strengths and weaknesses.
It's not about what you can do with it on a nice sunny day on the range. I've hit targets as far away as 100 yards with my J frame....but I've also shot it in serious training and I can tell you that while you can use one effectively it is *harder* to do than with other handguns. ...and the irony is that the little J frames are the LEAST likely to be practiced with. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:15:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Use ball in the speed loader. It is not a good round but you can get them to drop in quickly without looking. A little practice and you are at least able to return fire. |
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Posted: 11/29/2007 9:20:50 AM EDT
[#50]
I dig my 340PD. It's my primary sometimes, but always on me.
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