www.wlwt.com/news/14656397/detail.html

Woman Works To Rebuild After Police Raid Her Home LAWRENCEBURG, Ind. -- A SWAT team raids the wrong home in Lawrenceburg, Ind., now the homeowner wants some answers. Police said they were led to the Village Apartments on the trail of fugitive Sean Deaton. Convinced he was inside apartment 407G, the Lawrenceburg SWAT unit surrounded the building. "It looked like they were ready to go to war," one neighbor said. "Some of the ones out here had AR15's and shotguns."Neighbors said police spent hours, ordering Deaton to surrender. But when that didn't work, they responded with tear gas and forced entry. "It looked like my apartment was on fire. The smoke was just blowing out of my windows," Kayla Irwin, the tenant of 407G said. Irwin, a single mother of two, said she is unable to live in her apartment and didn’t even know the man police were searching for. Now, she said, she has been left with the mess and no apology.  "It's all covered with poison. I don't know where to start over with two kids," said Irwin. "How do you start with replacing the items that your kids have had since the day they were born?" She said one of her pet guinea pigs was also killed during the incident. Neighbors said the police action was simply overkill. "Overpowered. In my opinion it looked like they were enjoying what they were doing. They did not need to do all this," Emanuel Brightwell, an Iraq veteran and neighbor said.  Irwin said she appealed to the police, but hasn’t gotten anywhere.  "They basically just said, sorry for the inconvenience. Go ahead and clean it up. Clean up our mess," Irwin said. She said she's had to borrow everything from family in the week since the incident. She also said she can't stay in the apartment because of the acrid gas residue. An assistant chief and another officer were at the Village Apartments talking to Irwin within 30 minutes of Target 5 asking them about the incident, telling her that they would try to get some money so she could clean her clothes and furnishing on her own. "This is the first time this has happened. I'm surprised the incident has not been remedied. We will take care of it the best we can," the assistant chief said.  Until the incident is remedied, the manager of the apartment complex said he has put Irwin, her kids and her pets in another apartment.

"But Chief, that guinea pig was the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!..."

I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare.

Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though.

Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare.

We need a Sarbanes-Oxley Act for public figures.  A little personal liability would go a long way.

IPTJBTA

Well kids, here is the po-po fuck-up of the day.

Those guys should have more power and guns. What do  you think?

Quoted: www.wlwt.com/news/14656397/detail.html "It looked like my apartment was on fire. The smoke was just blowing out of my windows," Kayla Irwin, the tenant of 407G said. She said one of her pet guinea pigs was also killed during the incident.

Hmmpf. And we are told time and time again that the 9mm is an underpowered round.

It certainly makes short work of house pigs!

Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though.

Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die.

That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high.

Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high.

So SRT units should not exist?

The title is a little misleading. They believed the fugitive was in the unit. Regardless the city has a responsibility to clean up its mess..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist?

Probably not in fucking podunk indiana.

TXL

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist?

There is a legit need for things along the lines of SWAT teams.  They are needed once or twice a year, in high risk situations.

Not when Johnny got caught with pot.

Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though.

I certainly agree.


I read a story once where our soldiers raided the wrong house in Iraq.  Blew up the door (a nice, thick, carved one), gassed it, etc.

Wrong house.


The next day they had a new door up, cleaned up the place AND gave the family US$500 for his trouble.


Are our military personnel the only ones who hold themselves accountable without first going thru some committee?

Are Iraq citizens/residents the only ones who rate such consideration?

Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare.

Didn't you post that in one of the bad raid threads from yesterday, or was that from two days ago?

I get so confused trying to keep up with these rare events.

/\

I consider that a decent post 8000







eta:

crap, some-other-dude messed up my post consistency

Quoted: The title is a little misleading. They believed the fugitive was in the unit. Regardless the city has a responsibility to clean up its mess..

This is very true.
When you make a mistake, the onus is on you to fix it to the best of your ability.

SWAT can come practice on my house and break stuff and shoot my two aging dogs if they promise to leave an MP5 and Glock 18 among the debris.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? Probably not in fucking podunk indiana. TXL

What you got against IN?

Quoted: When you make a mistake, the onus is on you to fix it to the best of your ability.

For normal people  yes.
But for LE it doesn't usually seem to be the case.

Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare.

heck, I've heard it 3 times in 3 different threads today.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? Probably not in fucking podunk indiana. TXL

\

Because no one is cooking meth out in the boonies.

Quoted: Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare. heck, I've heard it 3 times in 3 different threads today.

Just like the media provides balanced and accurate news about the war in Iraq and any story about guns.

Bad news sells.

Quoted: SWAT can come practice on my house and break stuff and shoot my two aging dogs if they promise to leave an MP5 and Glock 18 among the debris.

I am told that is called "planting evidence".

For a map of Swatstica® raids.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare. heck, I've heard it 3 times in 3 different threads today. Just like the media provides balanced and accurate news about the war in Iraq and any story about guns. Bad news sells.

Not sure how they can be slanting these piss poor raids on wrong houses?

Maybe they should do an investigation on LE hiring practices. That would be entertaining.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare. heck, I've heard it 3 times in 3 different threads today. Just like the media provides balanced and accurate news about the war in Iraq and any story about guns. Bad news sells. Not sure how they can be slanting these piss poor raids on wrong houses? Maybe they should do an investigation on LE hiring practices. That would be entertaining.

All the hiring processes I went through were quite thorough. How many have you been through and what do you recommend they change?

ETA: If the SWAT team messed up that is something they can and will be held liable for. I just find it interesting that you guys trust the same media you bash for its antigun and anti military bias.

There are plenty of cases of abuse in Iraq which are hyped up by the media before they go to trial.

Quoted: There is a legit need for things along the lines of SWAT teams.  They are needed once or twice a year, in high risk situations. Not when Johnny got caught with pot.

What part of "fugitive" has anything to do with Johnny having a little pot?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare. heck, I've heard it 3 times in 3 different threads today. Just like the media provides balanced and accurate news about the war in Iraq and any story about guns. Bad news sells. Not sure how they can be slanting these piss poor raids on wrong houses? Maybe they should do an investigation on LE hiring practices. That would be entertaining. All the hiring processes I went through were quite thorough. How many have you been through and what do you recommend they change?

Hiring? Depends on what jobs I was interviewing for at the time. Most rigorous was for a pharmacuetical job. 4 very intense interviews. Psych battery etc. Got the job offer but turned it down.

Last couple were easy because they were unsolicited offers.

As far as changes...........

Raise the min. age to 24

More thorough background check to make sure the candidate doesn't want to be a cop for the wrong reasons. Similiar to what may fortune 100 companies and FBI do.

Raise LE salaries to levels where agencies get some better candidates.

Min. height requirements. It would weed out the napoleons.(never happen again though)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist?

I don't think anyone is advocating that, neccessarily.

More accountability might keep them from acting like such yahoos.

As a CCP holder I'm responsible for every round I discharge. If I screw up, I can be held either financially or criminally responsible.

Hell, if my dog bites someone, I'm accountable for it...

Seems like these guys screw up quite often and we rarely hear of any of them being held to account.

Shorter leashes might be a good idea.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? I don't think anyone is advocating that, neccessarily. More accountability might keep them from acting like such yahoos. As a CCP holder I'm responsible for every round I discharge. If I screw up, I can be held either financially or criminally responsible. Hell, if my dog bites someone, I'm accountable for it... Seems like these guys screw up quite often and we rarely hear of any of them being held to account. Shorter leashes might be a good idea.

Where are you getting the idea the police aren't liable? People can and do sue police departments on a regular basis.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? I don't think anyone is advocating that, neccessarily. More accountability might keep them from acting like such yahoos. As a CCP holder I'm responsible for every round I discharge. If I screw up, I can be held either financially or criminally responsible. Hell, if my dog bites someone, I'm accountable for it... Seems like these guys screw up quite often and we rarely hear of any of them being held to account. Shorter leashes might be a good idea. Where are you getting the idea the police aren't liable? People can and do sue police departments on a regular basis.

Suing? Who cares about suing when you or your loved one is dead? That's too fucking late.

They have their uses. But for this?

BTW I'm all for having SWAT units everywhere. The more trained men & women to respond the better.  What I'm against is using them in situations that don't warrant them. The SWAT/HRT units are an awesome tool. But that tool needs to be used with very very tight controls, only in certain justifiable high risk situations, by only the the most highly skilled people to greenlight the action & do the heavy lifting.

Anything else is overkill. Overkill works; it's just very expensive. In this case it puts the homeowners in a no win situation & put cops lives at risk.

Quoted: For a map of Swatstica® raids.

Damn.

I did a search of Tennessee, with Innocents being killed and these three came up.

The JBTA can say what they want, but the truth is they are out of control:



John Adams.

October 4, 2000—TN

On October 4, 2000 at about 10 p.m., police in Lebanon, Tennessee raid the home of 64-year-old John Adams on a drug warrant. In what Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks would later say was a "severe, costly mistake," police indentify the wrong house.

According to Adams' wife, police don't identify themselves after knocking on the couple's door. When she refuses to let them in, they break down the door, and handcuff her. Adams meets the police in another room with a sawed-off shotgun. Police open fire, and shoot Adams dead.

One officer would later be fired after the incident, and several others suspended, but no criminal charges would ever come of the raid. Adams' widow eventually won a $400,000 settlement from the city.

Sources:

Warren Duzak, "Innocent man dies in police blunder," Tennessean, October 6, 2000.

Ashley Fantz, "Fatal Mistake," Salon, October 19, 2000

Andy Humbles, "Wilson DA prefers simplicity to theatrics," Tennessean, March 15, 2004, p. B1.



Stacy Renae Walker

August 5, 1999—TN

Police in Lexington, Tennessee force entry into the home of Stacie Renae Walker on a drug raid in August 1999. The raid is based on a tip from a "concerned citizen," who claims to have seen methamphetamine and marijuana inside.

Once inside, Deputy Tim Crowe, who has been on the police force for only a week, shoots Renae in the back of the head, killing her. Police would later say Crowe's gun fired when he "tripped."

Police found no drugs or weapons in the home, and later conceded that the entire raid was "a terrible mistake."

Walker's family was later awarded a $100,000 settlement.

Sources:

Tonya Smith, "Woman 'accidentally shot,' killed in drug raid," Jackson Sun, August 7, 1999.

Tonya Smith, "Family, friends remember victim as energetic, happy," Jackson Sun, August 7, 1999.

"Sheriff: Deputy who fatally shot woman during search was new to job," Associated Press, August 9, 1999.

Additional research by Radley Balko.



Barry Hodge.

August 4, 1997—TN

Police in Selmer, Tennessee break down the door to the home of Barry and Sheila Hodge. They were on a no-knock drug raid looking for marijuana.

According to a $25 million lawsuit filed by Mrs. Hodge in 1998, police never announced themselves before forcing entry and shooting Mr. Hodge in the arm and chest, killing him. Mrs. Hodge claims she was thrown on the floor and handcuffed, and the Hodge's daughter was locked in her bedroom.

Press accounts do not indicate if marijuana was found in the home.

Source:

"Woman files $25 million lawsuit over drug bust that left husband dead," Associated Press, August 12, 1998.

Move along, nothing to see here...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? I don't think anyone is advocating that, neccessarily. More accountability might keep them from acting like such yahoos. As a CCP holder I'm responsible for every round I discharge. If I screw up, I can be held either financially or criminally responsible. Hell, if my dog bites someone, I'm accountable for it... Seems like these guys screw up quite often and we rarely hear of any of them being held to account. Shorter leashes might be a good idea. Where are you getting the idea the police aren't liable? People can and do sue police departments on a regular basis.

IIRC suing a bunch of PD yahoos won't bring anyone back from the dead. Besides all they'll do is raise your taxes to make up for the lost revenues.

Shorter leashes and criminal liability are the best solutions.

Anything worth doing, is worth doing right. Otherwise innocent people, and guinea pigs, get hurt or worse.

In a press conference, Police spokesman J.B. Thugwiller replied:

"The team did everything in their power to insure the suspects' dog was in the apartment. We were extremely disappointed that the canine was not present. The fact that we were in the wrong apartment complex is immaterial at this time. The guinea pig in question was an obvious threat and lunged at one of our officers, who proceeded to have an incident in his pants. We were forced to put the guinea pig down. The occupant of the apartment has been charged with owning a vicious, attack pig."

The tactics they use look like overkill and wanton destruction.  However, those tactics come from a long line of getting taken by surprise and tricked by criminals.  It is important to remember that when the topic comes up.  To a large degree we can thank criminals for SWATs heavy-handed tactics.  

I think that should they raid the wrong house, or a house that does not belong to the suspect (unless they obviously willfully harboring) they should immediately send a team in to fix it and put everything back the way it was.  They can charge the suspect for it later if they can even get any money out of him/her.  That is only reasonable and I am surprised they have not started doing it yet.  If enough of these stories hit the media they probably will have to start doing it.

I can't remember any pizza delivery man - even once - mistaking another house for mine.

Maybe SWAT teams should start recruiting from Papa John's (or some other similar method to ensure sufficiently high IQs).

Quoted: Shorter leashes and criminal liability are the best solutions.

No shit. +10000

Soon I will be signing a Sarbanes-Oxley certification for the business I work at.  If sufficient financial controls aren't in place to prevent fraud, it is very likely I would go to prison.

To prison.  For misstated financials.

Someone tell me again why a cop who accidentally kills someone in their own home during a wrong raid (exhibiting gross negligence) should not be held criminally liable for their actions -- while I am held criminally liable for others' actions, resulting in a financial loss - not loss of life.

 

Quoted: Someone tell me again why a cop who accidentally kills someone in their own home during a wrong raid (exhibiting gross negligence) should not be held criminally liable for their actions -- while I am held criminally liable for others' actions, resulting in a financial loss - not loss of life.

They are agents of the State and you aren't.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist?

Quite possibly no.  They fuck up a lot and they certainly cause contreversy.  We have Marshalls and bounty hunters.  Legalization of drugs would virtually eliminate the need for SWAT/SRT too.

Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly several times a week, that attacks like this are rare.

Fixt

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? Quite possibly no.  They fuck up a lot and they certainly cause contreversy.  We have Marshalls and bounty hunters.  Legalization of drugs would virtually eliminate the need for SWAT/SRT too.

Show me a country that has legalized drugs and doesn't use Special Weapons units.

Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare.

And that is correct. Nothing to see here, go on about your business, citizen. Mellow greetings!

Quoted: I have been told, repeatedly, that attacks like this are rare.

Yeah, it's funny how those on the other side of the thin blue line have to keep repeating how rare these things are...

I understand why a PD would have no liability here, and I'm in favor of that... if the police are acting in good faith, then the taxpayers certainly shouldn't wind up on the hook.  But, in a situation like this, plain common decency dictates that the Chief and incident commander should personally apologize, and some cops (those involved or otherwise volunteering) should help to clean up (on the clock).

But then, I'm also a reactionary nut who believes that when cops raid the wrong freakin' house, they someone should be criminally charged.  When you know you're supposed to go to 123 Main St. and you raid 132 Main St. that's clearly marked as such, there's a huge problem.

Quoted: They believed the fugitive was in the unit.

Yep. Right house, bad intel. This was not a map reading or land navigation failure. The suspect simply wass not in the home the police believed he was in. a civil court will likely determine if that belief were reasonable or not.

A pet is a family member... I am serious too.  

Don't you guys just love SWAT?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? Quite possibly no.  They fuck up a lot and they certainly cause contreversy.  We have Marshalls and bounty hunters.  Legalization of drugs would virtually eliminate the need for SWAT/SRT too. Show me a country that has legalized drugs and doesn't use Special Weapons units.

I doubt it is a broadbrush estimate to say 80% plus of what SWAT/SRT does is drug related.  Actual violent felon retrieval is a small part of it.

Quoted: I can't remember any pizza delivery man - even once - mistaking another house for mine.

Read the OP again. The didnt believe he was in house A but go to house B instead. They went to the correct house but he simply wasnt there.

The article should have explained why the police believed the fugative was in that house though.

Until Police departments start getting sued, nothing will change.

Hit them in their wallet and policies will change.

Quoted: When you know you're supposed to go to 123 Main St. and you raid 132 Main St. that's clearly marked as such, there's a huge problem.

Absolutely.

No excuse for going to thew wrong house, meaning a house other than the one listed on the warrant.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody is immune to making mistakes.  I would expect that they would make it right immediately though. Yes everyone makes mistakes. But when SWAT makes a mistake, people, on both sides, can & do die. That's the rub. The price of a mistake is too high. So SRT units should not exist? Probably not in fucking podunk indiana. TXL

TXL:  Lawrenceburg is certainly not podunk.  It is the home of a gigantic casino, and is located just outside of Cincinnati, Ohio.  It is big enough to have two interstate exits and a US Route running through it.  It has probably 5000 residents, and another five thousand visitors daily, for a total of 10,000 people.  

oh the outcry from a poorly written article. My poor GD sensabilities have been offended.