Us versus Them

Quoted: I think we'd all benefit if the term "Fudd" was used a lot less. After all, it's used as an insult and covers a wide range of people: Primarily hunters, but it's usually intended to include any shooter who isn't on the very ramparts of the RKBA movement. You know, every time someone feels themself insulted by being called a "Fudd" we've failed to make a supporter of the EBR, and probably made an enemy.  If the same person is insulted a number of times, you'll never get him to listen to you and possibly change his mind.  Being insulted kinda makes people dig in their heels. I know some of these people are not reachable, but I don't know in advance which ones when I meet them personally, so I have to sound them out and do a little gentle attitude adjustment and re-education on them.  I'd never convert anyone to our side of the issue if I began by insulting them. Why are we going out of our way to insult the very people that we need to convert to our side of the issue? I don't.  Why some do?  Ignorance, maybe? I don't think we have such overwhelming numbers and support that we can afford to go around casually alienating other shooters, do you? No, we don't Let me ask you another question:  Do you think the anti-gunner-types like the idea of one group of shooters alienating large groups of other shooters? Of course they like it I'll give you a hint:  If you constantly use the term "Fudd" to refer to other shooters, you are making Hillary's task easier in the long run. We should be trying to educate and convert them. Insulting them is just as wrong as calling all southerners "rednecks" or all country-dwellers "hicks".  Just as counterproductive, too. Please, I'm asking you all, please don't use that term.  All it does is piss off people for no good reason, and makes us all weaker in the long run. You want to insult someone?  Try Hillary intsead.

I'm with ya, raf.  

Decent rant...  could use some more vitriol...  I give it a 7.  

I agree with you, we have to convert the "low hanging fruit" first...

- AG

Okay.

But we have to continue to turn the other cheek, right? I mean according to "them" I'm a right wing whack job, a baby killer, a mass murderer, militia member, hundreds of others.

Fudd is pretty mild.

And so often, very appropriate.

So when THEY (meaning the "bolt-action and shotgun ONLY" types) badmouth US (meaning the rest of us, EBR owners in particular), what should we do, thank them?

Education can only go so far.  Some of those turds need a good cussin'.

It seems the NRA is pretty heavily infested with them.  Not 100%, but I do wonder what the percentage actually is.

I try to be civil to people who are civil to me.  If they aren't...

I was reading some hunting mag, Field and Stream I believe, where a letter from some hunter said the "black rifle types" owe the fact that the Second Amendment still exists to the hunters.

Now, who is doing the insulting and who is writing some really stupid letters?

Quoted: I was reading some hunting mag, Field and Stream I believe, where a letter from some hunter said the "black rifle types" owe the fact that the Second Amendment still exists to the hunters. Now, who is doing the insulting and who is writing some really stupid letters?

Ask the fine Gentleman to point out the word "Hunting" in the Constitution.

Or, for that matter, the word "Sporting".

I can't speak for everyone, but I think the term is more of a message board thing and not something used face-to-face. I can consider someone to be a total fudd, and yet be totally civil to him in person. Kind of like the friend(s) we all have that you know is to some degree an idiot, but you still consider him a friend (or at least a positive acquaintance). You don't call him dumb, even if you know it's so. And since "fudds" rarely or never visit Arfcom or similar boards, I don't think it really directly insults or alienates much of anyone. It is more dangerous as setting up a general mindset (usually on our side) that creates divisions within the gun owning community.

Quoted: I can't speak for everyone, but I think the term is more of a message board thing and not something used face-to-face. I can consider someone to be a total fudd, and yet be totally civil to him in person. Kind of like the friend(s) we all have that you know is to some degree an idiot, but you still consider him a friend (or at least a positive acquaintance). You don't call him dumb, even if you know it's so. And since "fudds" rarely or never visit Arfcom or similar boards, I don't think it really directly insults or alienates much of anyone. It is more dangerous as setting up a general mindset (usually on our side) that creates divisions within the gun owning community.

Yes, it is best to be civil, polite and even nice at the range.

An armed society is a polite society.

Quoted: It's a term mainly used on internet message boards when speaking about an experience they had with someone at a public range, gun show, gun shop, whatever. The "targets" of the term never even hear it. I don't see a big problem with it.

I have been told several times that it would be okay to ban my black rifles as long as their shotguns and hunting rifles are left alone.  Believe me, those people heard the term as it was pointed out that their "sniper rifles" and "street sweepers" would be next after my black rifles were gone.

Oh yes, they heard the term.

Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together.

The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left."

Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle.

I agree with the point of being respectful of others, regardless of my personal perspective. After all, when I took the oath to uphold and defend The Constitution of The United States of America, (enlisted US Army 10/72), that meant all of the document and it doesn't matter what others choose to selectively make their pet cause. This includes respecting the rights of people to say and believe in what they want to BECAUSE it is in The Constitution.

The best thing we can do is politely point out that the Second Amendment is there for the purpose of defending individual liberty, and assuring that no one takes that away from anyone protected under The Constitution. Of course, there are a lot of interpretations of what this document says, but taken at face value and in literal fashion it is clear in its meaning. Where it gets complicated is in the twisting semantic games people like to play in "interpreting" what the founding fathers and framers of The Constitution "had in mind" when it was written.

I believe it is clear that these men in the late eighteenth century were well educated and that they said what they meant to say without "spin". Too many cooks are spoiling this broth, so to speak, and every politician in the nineteenth, twentieth, and now twenty-first century so far has tried to embellish The Constitution to suit their political needs. No wonder so many people are confused.

Going back to the first post in this thread, yes, it is wrong to call people names that are meant in a derogatory connotation, and we should stop acting like children. The only way we can hope to unite all gun owners in protecting our rights is by inviting them to see that we are just as reasonable as the next person and by trying to help them feel less threatened about matters tactical. Every gun owner should be skilled in the use of their chosen arm, whether it is a muzzle loading hunting gun, or a semi-automatic rifle. We should approach this on the basis of agreement and seeing what we share in common with each other instead of divisive in-fighting which only helps the cause of the anti gun movement.

When we call hunters Fudds, and they call us terrorists we just serve the ends of the antis and people outside the shooting community see us as unreasonable hot heads. Instead of this we should be striving to present a united front, and giving the non-shooting public the impression that we are all responsible citizens who are skilled and who practice safety when we engage in shooting sports. It should also be known that tactical shooting is a skill that is of value to the community and those who participate in this activity are not doing so to threaten, but to become proficient so if one day it becomes necessary to fire a shot in anger it will be discharged skillfully and responsibly.

Quoted: Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together. The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left." Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle.

As far as I am concerned, any gun owner who would advocate or not fight the banning of other's guns as long as his/her guns were left alone were never together with us in the first place.  They ARE on the left as far as I am concerned.

Quoted: i20.tinypic.com/2pt7wwm.jpg

<-------- Proudly converted ex-Fudd

It's Wabbit Season!!!!!!!!!!!  

Quoted: <-------- Proudly converted ex-Fudd

See good things do happen to people who have a brain and use it! ......J/K man

Quoted: www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/images/smilies/97.gif

Thats a FUDD alright

Quoted: Quoted: <-------- Proudly converted ex-Fudd See good things do happen to people who have a brain and use it! ......J/K man

Lol

I guess I was caught on a good day and managed to have a couple of brain cells rub together.

Quoted: i think the term is over used but it is appropriate for some gun owners. a fudd is a person that only owns a firearm to hunt. they have NO interest in self defense, they do not understand or want to understand the 2a or it's movement. they trulley DO see us as terrorist would like to see us gone. IMHO a true fudd is nothing more than sara brady with a duck gun. I have no problem calling them what they are. this is NOT to say that hunters are FUDDS nor is it to imply that gun owners not involved in 2a issues are fudds.

+1

the gun owners that would be alienated would be the ones who will never stick up for us or defend their own RKBA anyways

Quoted: Quoted: i think the term is over used but it is appropriate for some gun owners. a fudd is a person that only owns a firearm to hunt. they have NO interest in self defense, they do not understand or want to understand the 2a or it's movement. they trulley DO see us as terrorist would like to see us gone. IMHO a true fudd is nothing more than sara brady with a duck gun. I have no problem calling them what they are. this is NOT to say that hunters are FUDDS nor is it to imply that gun owners not involved in 2a issues are fudds. +1 the gun owners that would be alienated would be the ones who will never stick up for us or defend their own RKBA anyways

Hell, I wish my friend who "converted" me simply called me a "Fudd". I think his exact words were "You f-cking dumbass sheep" IIRC

AMennnnn

Quoted: Quoted: Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together. The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left." Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle. As far as I am concerned, any gun owner who would advocate or not fight the banning of other's guns as long as his/her guns were left alone were never together with us in the first place.  They ARE on the left as far as I am concerned.

+1

Not all gun owners vote conservative.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together. The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left." Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle. As far as I am concerned, any gun owner who would advocate or not fight the banning of other's guns as long as his/her guns were left alone were never together with us in the first place.  They ARE on the left as far as I am concerned. I understand what you are saying, but my point is simply that frequent and indiscriminate use of insulting language is counterproductive in converting those among the group that might possibly be receptive.  We need all the RKBA friends we can get, and carelessly slinging the term "Fudd' around is not helpful.  Now, if you want to cuss out an individual or individuals who clearly merit the label, that's one thing.  It's the careless and indiscriminate use of the insult that harms us.

Agreed

You make a good point, raf.

I think its time we bury the term "fudd"

Agree.

Quoted: Quoted: Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together. The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left." Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle. As far as I am concerned, any gun owner who would advocate or not fight the banning of other's guns as long as his/her guns were left alone were never together with us in the first place.  They ARE on the left as far as I am concerned.

Excellent point, however the smarter person would work to bring them over and not further alienate them. I admit that would be difficult as few of us run in the same circles as they do.

I can promise you this though, and write this down, if they take my guns (the bad ones) I'm going to be the biggest loudest most radical advocate of taking all FUDD guns. New sceen name: "They_Call_Me_Mr._Sarah_B"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together. The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left." Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle. As far as I am concerned, any gun owner who would advocate or not fight the banning of other's guns as long as his/her guns were left alone were never together with us in the first place.  They ARE on the left as far as I am concerned. I understand what you are saying, but my point is simply that frequent and indiscriminate use of insulting language is counterproductive in converting those among the group that might possibly be receptive.  We need all the RKBA friends we can get, and carelessly slinging the term "Fudd' around is not helpful.  Now, if you want to cuss out an individual or individuals who clearly merit the label, that's one thing.  It's the careless and indiscriminate use of the insult that harms us.

Yep, that is exactly correct!

To be fair, I can understand this "Fudd" behavior when it comes from people who simply don't know any better, but it is the examples of willful ignorance that just bother me.  Especially when the ignorance comes from people who ought to know better.  Zumbo comes to mind.  

I only use the term in describing people who are willfully ignorant and hostile towards those who own weapons that aren't politically correct.  It is certainly unfair to insult when you can educate.  

For what it's worth, it might be time to ease up on insulting airsofters, paintballers and airgunners as well.  The 2nd Amendment applies to them, too.  Some of them may choose to expand their horizons if we approach them in the right way.  

My Dad raised me as a fudd.

I grew and learned some other things.

Which I taught my boy.

Who is now killing insurgents in Iraq.

We are working on it


GM

i dislike fudds, they are as big of enemy as the anti gunning left as far as i'm concerned.

i think they should shoot their 12" groups at 50 yards at the range and stfu/gtfo

Quoted: i dislike fudds, they are as big of enemy as the anti gunning left as far as i'm concerned. i think they should shoot their 12" groups at 50 yards at the range and stfu/gtfo

I'd have a hard time saying it better than this.^^^  Why is it the loudest ones are always the worst shots.....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Typical right wing self defeating failure to stay together. The left has had a saying for many years: "No enemies on the Left." Think about it while you watch the right go down the toilet swirl of history with the Leftys at the flush handle. As far as I am concerned, any gun owner who would advocate or not fight the banning of other's guns as long as his/her guns were left alone were never together with us in the first place.  They ARE on the left as far as I am concerned. Excellent point, however the smarter person would work to bring them over and not further alienate them. I admit that would be difficult as few of us run in the same circles as they do. I can promise you this though, and write this down, if they take my guns (the bad ones) I'm going to be the biggest loudest most radical advocate of taking all FUDD guns. New sceen name: "They_Call_Me_Mr._Sarah_B"

One of the "I don't care if they ban those as long as they leave my guns alone" comments came after a guy said the old "you can't hunt with that" crap.  I explained that it was a 7.62 NATO rifle, had to explain that it what he knows as .308, and I could hunt with it but that the Second Amendment was not about hunting and did not contain that word nor "sporting" in it's contents.  I was being nice until he then came out with the comment about banning it.  I proceeded to tell him that he was a Fudd and he needed to go back to the other end with his buddy and leave me alone.

Not gona work raf plenty of us tried to get this point accross after the Zumbo fun, the anti gun shills are plentiful on arfcom.