Why Do Divorce Laws Marginalize Men?
By Douglas Cooney
Lifestyle Commentator - Every other Tuesday    

Ask a buddy at work. Ask your neighbor. Even a relative will probably have heard of one. And the stories are always the same: she took his house, his car, and his kids. She made more money than him and he still had to pay alimony. She accused him of physical abuse and the courts didn't even ask for evidence.

It seems that no matter who you talk to these days, someone knows of a man who came out of a divorce robbed and humiliated. And there is no end to how harrowing such stories get.

In America, men are forced to pay around 40% of their income to ex-wives, regardless of wrongdoing on the woman's parts (often called "no-fault" alimony). She could commit adultery and beat her husband or kids, and none of it will influence the court's decision.

More shockingly still, a woman can simply accuse her husband of sexual or physical abuse (or simply express a fear of it) and instantly win a restraining order forcing him away from his home and children, without so much as a hearing. In fact, most divorce lawyers will advise a woman to do this, and those who do not can be sued for legal malpractice.

And once she has the kids, the family court will be loath to enforce visitation rights for the father. All the mother has to do is ask.the war on menWith divorce on the rise -- today, more than 50% of all marriages in the U.S. result in divorce -- men's rights are being increasingly overlooked to the benefit of women. Consider this: statistically, the first person to file for divorce usually wins. While 70% of all divorces are initiated by women, 85 to 90% of custody awards go to the women. The numbers alone reveal the ugly truth when it comes to men: marriage has become a gamble in which the odds are heavily against us.

Family courts have become synonymous with tragedy and injustice. Once made to protect women from deadbeat dads, these courts are making a mockery of fairness by being instruments of disgrace for men and families.

But this waking nightmare is simply part of a much larger current. Even the most inattentive of men will notice that the media is saturated with negative images of themselves.

Pervasive in television and movies, the only acceptable representation of man is that of the irresponsible, beer-drinking dimwit. We are living in the anti-male age, where men are the new scapegoats for all of society's evils. It was only a matter of time before this trend reached the courtrooms.

It's all because of those radical feminists.

the tables have turnedThere is little doubt over who is responsible for this. Radical feminists, the same ones who dominate the media and schools with the message that men are by nature violent and abusive, have gained control of key parts of the law and legislature. They have managed to convince lawmakers that men are dangerous and have no place in a child's life, and therefore should be controlled accordingly. And the result can be seen in the following rulings:


Courts consistently refuse to lower child support fees when the father's income drops. Known as the "Bradley Amendment," this law forbids any reduction in child support arrears, even if the father is disabled.


If a man remarries, his new wife's income can be used as proof that the man can pay alimony. If the ex-wife (and mother) remarries, however, not a cent of her new husband's earnings goes to child support. The court's rationale? They are not his children, thus not his responsibility.


Current data indicates that women are becoming the biggest perpetrators of domestic abuse. Furthermore, many women brainwash children into saying their fathers were abusers. Courts will nonetheless believe a woman over a man, just because she is the mother.


In California, if the higher-earning spouse, who is typically the man, is hurt during marriage and gets a monetary settlement, the court can award some of it to the wife even if he suffered all the pain and permanent loss of earning capacity.


The earning spouse will be ordered to pay the attorney's fees of the dependent spouse, which is usually between $5,000 and $20,000 US, even if the latter initiated it.the delicate sex?Conventional wisdom tells us that women are, by nature, nurturers. For that reason they should naturally have custody of a child. Far be it for anyone to question a mother's love, but turning a blind eye to the role that a father plays in a child's life is downright insensitive. A good father keeps a family together, provides strength, and shows unconditional support.

These are not the musings of romantics. U.S. data shows that fatherless children are five times more likely to commit suicide, nine times more likely to drop out of school, 10 times more likely to abuse drugs, and 20 times more likely to end up in prison. Also, 71% of teenage pregnancies happen to girls who reside in fatherless homes.

Now get this: 60% of all child abuse is committed by women with sole custody.with liberty & justice for someSo why are fathers increasingly discouraged -- nay, maligned -- from being fathers? When a pendulum stops swinging one way, it must necessarily come to the other extreme. This is a fact too oft forgotten by the frontline fighters of feminism. So influential are pressure groups run by seriously vindictive women, that preference in courts are given to women -- no matter what.

Family judges today automatically believe the woman over the man out of fear for being politically incorrect. They know that if they examine the facts and find that the man is more capable of raising a child, the shrill alarms of sexism will ring loud and clear.keep it in the middleIt is time to admit that the pendulum of political correctness has swung too far. In an effort to force equality into society, all the power fell into the hands of feminists who seem too happy to ape the worst traits of their former oppressors. But pointing fingers is what got us into this mess in the first place. It won't help anyone, and it will only prod us to the other extreme. Of greater consequence is that marriage vows are now seven-year contracts that end in tears and anger. It might be wise to examine where we went wrong.

And should we try to change the pendulum's course, let's hope we learn to keep it happily in the middle.

http://www.askmen.com/fashion/austin_60/92_fashion_style.html

This statement couldn't be more true.

because women are 'protected' in our society.


Why do we open car doors for them?

Why do we ask them out for dinner?

Why do we get them to bear our children?


Statistically, as a gender, they probably deserve most everything we do for them.




Where else would we get pie?

In America, men are forced to pay around 40% of their income to ex-wives,

Correction: In some states

and my girlfriend wonders why i am so leery about jumping into marriage at the age of 24(me) and 22(her)

Quoted: and my girlfriend wonders why i am so leery about jumping into marriage at the age of 24(me) and 22(her)

Its a 50-50 deal. It'll work out or it won't. I remember this gal at work though, she didn't know what the big deal was- figured at the most she would only be married 3-4 times in her lfetime. Everybody i grew up with is on their 2nd or third marriage...

Quoted: Quoted: and my girlfriend wonders why i am so leery about jumping into marriage at the age of 24(me) and 22(her) Its a 50-50 deal. It'll work out or it won't. I remember this gal at work though, she didn't know what the big deal was- figured at the most she would only be married 3-4 times in her lfetime. Everybody i grew up with is on their 2nd or third marriage...

and this is what scares the shit out of me, as i have a LOT to loose at my age. house, good amount of cash put away for children's college education, rainy day fund  and my retirement,  i will not loose that security i can offer my family. i just wish the cards were not stacked against men in court.

we are evil and dirty and smelly and have penes.

Today's anti-male legal system is one of the reasons I shall never marry.

Since going through it I believe that the system still sees women as barefoot and pregnant and at home.  Not the true way of the current world but the man gets screwed, and screwed etc.

Quoted: Today's anti-male legal system is one of the reasons I shall never marry.

And never procreate?  I guess this problem will get a whole lot better in one generation

I believe many of the problems with child support cited above are irrelevant of marital status.  Admittedly, not actually getting married may avoid alimony (depending on state you live in, common law marriage limits, etc.).  If you have kids, though, you're basically taking on the same risk.  Not trying to start a s*%storm here, but statistically speaking, I believe a married mom and dad make better parents too.....  

Life is full of risks.  Marriage is one of them.  My guess is that you still drive vehicles, work for a living and do other risky or unhealthy things in your life?  If you think about it, you trust every single person on the road every day with your life.  A 1' swerve on a 2-way road by a stranger could end your life in a second.  

I hope someday you can find someone you trust to commit to spending the rest of your life with.  Yes, the system sucks for males right now.  Yes, I hope it gets better.  The system is really irrelevant if you find someone you can trust and commit to (and will do the same to you), though.  

If it flies, floats or fucks it's cheaper to rent in the long run.

"because inside every man lurks a rapist just waiting for the right time" some femi-nazi

Because for years, women were at a disadvantage to men since odds were, the woman was a housewife and had few marketable skills that could pay for a decent lawyer, whereas the man would cut her off from the funds and get a quality lawyer, and take her to the cleaners as it were (get everything he wanted, leaving her stranded essentially).

As divorce laws protected women more, the divorce rate shot up.

Anymore though... the entire thing is stacked to benefit the woman. I know of plenty of men that got SCREWED when they got divorces (doesn't matter who initiated it either)... The women NEVER got screwed in the divorce. Not one of them.

Quoted: and my girlfriend wonders why i am so leery about jumping into marriage at the age of 24(me) and 22(her)

Ditto here and I'm almost 40.

A few weeks ago she wanted to know what I didn't want to get married.

I gave her the above run-down and said it wasn't worth the risk that someday that might happen all for what benefit?

John

Because the justice system, consciously or subconsciously, considers women to be little better than children; to be protected at other's expense.

Over $100,000......

TXL

I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail.

Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now.

Patty

Quoted: I hope someday you can find someone you trust to commit to spending the rest of your life with.

really, what's the point?  i've been married off and own now for about 17 years (and "committed" for even longer) and i honestly can't say it was worth it; very few times i've hit the ground on my knees throwing my hands in the air crying out "thanks jeebus, for me being married!"  now, with the ever-present legal system having it cocked-and-loaded and pointing at me from behind really gives it that dubious quality.

a lot of posters will equate marriage (and fatherhood) as being great by having survived or endured some ordeal.  that, by definition, is hardship.

i didn't want to dump in that guys thread about his ill girlfriend but, again, like a lot of others whom said the same thing: if its so perfect, why aren't they married now?


eta: sorry, left this part out

The system is really irrelevant if you find someone you can trust and commit to (and will do the same to you), though.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......!!!!!

we are the bread winners,, usually

Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty

Patty has a point. Society is reactionary and rather than take a look at each case on its own merits it is easier for society to lay down broad sweeping rules. Add lawyers to the mix, and there you go . . . I never bought into the poor, pitiful single mom bit. Consequently my ex never paid any child support, but I didn't have to share my boys with a damn drunk either. Just worked my two jobs, raised my boys to be better men than their dad and a better mom than me and moved on with life.

You guys have a warrior in me -- I firmly believe that the white, middle-class American male is now the most discriminated-against creature on God's green earth.

Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty

It's not a correction, it's total ass raping without so much as kiss. The current system is a complete and total ass rape of men/non-custodial parents. It's complete and utter bullshit.

Quoted: Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty Patty has a point. Society is reactionary and rather than take a look at each case on its own merits it is easier for society to lay down broad sweeping rules. Add lawyers to the mix, and there you go . . . I never bought into the poor, pitiful single mom bit. Consequently my ex never paid any child support, but I didn't have to share my boys with a damn drunk either. Just worked my two jobs, raised my boys to be better men than their dad and a better mom than me and moved on with life. You guys have a warrior in me -- I firmly believe that the white, middle-class American male is now the most discriminated-against creature on God's green earth.

Unfortunately, your last line, "I firmly believe that the white, middle-class American male is now the most discriminated-against creature on God's green earth.",  is also akin to a "stock market correction" much like patty mentioned...

When I got divorced last summer, my ex-wife had to "swim upstream" to do it the way we wanted to. We wanted to do it without ANY lawyers whatsoever. We didn't want ANY lawyer to get a dime of our money. We wanted to do it just between us, with only the court divorce decree. But from the get-go, the system tried to manipulate her into letting the almighty State take care of things. She tried to set-up the child support by herself and they wanted to force her (and ME) to go through them. For me to have to write them a check (or have it taken out of my account) and then they would disperse the funds. I told her "NO WAY" I'd give the State a damn dime. I'd give her/my kids the money, but NO ONE else. We were able to work that out and I even decided voluntarily to have her child support deducted from my paycheck and direct deposted to her account so she would never have to ask me for money. And it's worked great for the past year plus. We are adults and have continued to act that way and WILL continue to do it for our childrens' sakes.

I have friends who are social workers and asked them "WHY" I was being treated like an irresponsible dead-beat dad right out of the gate, and they told me the system was set-up that way cause most guys/dads ARE or WILL-BE dead-beats who don't want to support their kids. I don't believe that for a second! I think that many men are treated so badly by their ex-wives and the State that they start to resent it and then figure that since they're being treated like criminals, they'll act a little more accordingly. I can certainly understand how that would happen. Many of these women spend their time with the kids alienating them from their fathers. It's truly a selfish system and has nothing to do with the welfare of the kids anymore. It's all about the mother.

I was/am lucky. I don't think most guys are.

Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty

Yes, there was a long time when women were at a severe disadvantage.  Justified?  No.

That in no way justifies the current situation.  As it has already been pointed out, this isn't a correction in the system.  It's a big, ugly flaw.  In the long run it benefits nobody.  The ladies of AR15.com have commented on several occasions about women-bashing by men.  Well, I've pointed it out before and I'll do it again:  A lot of women-bashing here and elsewhere is due to the way men are taken advantage of (on average) by the legal system in cases of divorce.

"No fault" divorce laws need to die a quick death.  Accusations of abuse need to be backed with evidence before legal action is taken against a spouse or ex.  Alimony laws need to be revised.  Etc.

Until those things happen, expect to see men become more trigger-shy about marriage.  Expect more pre-nups.  Expect more women-bashing.

Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty

I agree that was very true years ago, but today women exploit this bias in their favor.  And also the legislators didn't want them to be on government dole, which is what some women with children end up.  I personally knew a women(my daughter's friends mom) who went through a nasty divorce, and she ended up on welfare, definitely no fun.  There is a lot of wisdom behind the 2 can live cheaper than one.  I believe she is no longer on welfare, but thing were pretty bad for awhile.

BTW: In the days before DNA testing, the law was tilted in favor of a women, who if she had a child born even though he was not the baby's biological father, was assumed to be the baby's father under the law because of the same reason.

In other Breaking News:

Water is Wet!!

pussification of america

Quoted: Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty It's not a correction, it's total ass raping without so much as kiss. The current system is a complete and total ass rape of men/non-custodial parents. It's complete and utter bullshit.

Its true that there are a lot of ruthless immoral individuals.  However the way things were in the 60's and 70's for women was no less an ass raping.  Try to support 4 kids on $1.75 an hour with no child support and no husband all the while society is turning their nose up at you for losing your husband in the first place.  Also factor in the sexual harassment a woman had to endure during those times.  It was common place for bosses to touch, make in appropriate comments and literally treat a woman like a sexual object/subject than a respected employee.  

Granted things have gone to the other extreme but considering I for one have had to endure the harassment I'll take it the way it is now.  

I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands, nor will I ever.  The system is faulted to say the least but I believe most men do not get raped and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster.

Patty

Quoted: I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands, nor will I ever.  The system is faulted to say the least but I believe most men do not get raped and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster. Patty

Husbands? As in multiple?  

As far as the way husbands used to treat their wives, that goes both ways. I can tell you that my ex certainly didn't treat me well after a while. It's a viscious cycle and BOTH parties are usually to blame.

Quoted: Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty It's not a correction, it's total ass raping without so much as kiss. The current system is a complete and total ass rape of men/non-custodial parents. It's complete and utter bullshit.

Don't EVER skimp on a lawyer.

Legal professionals have a strange take on morality.

Quoted: Quoted: I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands, nor will I ever.  The system is faulted to say the least but I believe most men do not get raped and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster. Patty Husbands? As in multiple?   As far as the way husbands used to treat their wives, that goes both ways. I can tell you that my ex certainly didn't treat me well after a while. It's a viscious cycle and BOTH parties are usually to blame.

ah yes.  I took the plunge twice.  You are right - the door does swing both ways.  It has in my case too.

Patty

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty It's not a correction, it's total ass raping without so much as kiss. The current system is a complete and total ass rape of men/non-custodial parents. It's complete and utter bullshit. Its true that there are a lot of ruthless immoral individuals.  However the way things were in the 60's and 70's for women was no less an ass raping.  Try to support 4 kids on $1.75 an hour with no child support and no husband all the while society is turning their nose up at you for losing your husband in the first place.  Also factor in the sexual harassment a woman had to endure during those times.  It was common place for bosses to touch, make in appropriate comments and literally treat a woman like a sexual object/subject than a respected employee.   Granted things have gone to the other extreme but considering I for one have had to endure the harassment I'll take it the way it is now.   I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands, nor will I ever.  The system is faulted to say the least but I believe most men do not get raped and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster. Patty

Two wrongs make a right ...huh?

Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty

Or, possibly an over correction. When you over correct for a skid in a car it usually causes a crash.
I wonder how many women have had horrible "accidents" because their husbands feared what divorce would do to him?

>>>Vet of 3 divorces<<<

Yes, they are all still alive.

Here's my plan - marry a highly educated working woman while I do artsy-fartsy fun things that don't make much money. She'd never divorce me because of what it would cost her.

Quoted: and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster. Patty

that popped right out, a totally vindictive statement.  that's the whole point:  women are forcing men to pay for their hurt feelings.  i know one quite well now:  she feels he needs to pay, and pay big, for her lost years.


eta:

I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands...

and therein lies the scary parts

Quoted: we are the bread winners,, usually

I don't think that has been the case for quite awhile now.  Most families are 2 income.

Quoted: Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty Yes, there was a long time when women were at a severe disadvantage.  Justified?  No. That in no way justifies the current situation.  As it has already been pointed out, this isn't a correction in the system.  It's a big, ugly flaw.  In the long run it benefits nobody.  The ladies of AR15.com have commented on several occasions about women-bashing by men.  Well, I've pointed it out before and I'll do it again:  A lot of women-bashing here and elsewhere is due to the way men are taken advantage of (on average) by the legal system in cases of divorce. "No fault" divorce laws need to die a quick death.  Accusations of abuse need to be backed with evidence before legal action is taken against a spouse or ex.  Alimony laws need to be revised.  Etc. Until those things happen, expect to see men become more trigger-shy about marriage.  Expect more pre-nups.  Expect more women-bashing.

Mine told me she would file reports of me threatening her if I did not bow to her wishes. Basically wanted me to get fired and loose my guns.

I told her to go for it.

Quoted: Mine told me she would file reports of me threatening her if I did not bow to her wishes. Basically wanted me to get fired and loose my guns. I told her to go for it.

I said that once, she almost succeeded. $6000.00 to beat the rap. Not a game I'd play again.

Quoted: I wonder how many women have had horrible "accidents" because their husbands feared what divorce would do to him? >>>Vet of 3 divorces<<< Yes, they are all still alive.

Yup. How many of these real-life TV sagas where a husband murdered his wife instead of divorcing her are a result of such laws? I suspect that 90%+ are for that very reason. Yeah, the guy was obviously a scumbag. But the system isn't doing such a great of protecting women after all. The pendullum always swings back.

Wait till Rodent sees this one.  He went through a lot.

Basically what happens is good men (and women) always manage to marry at least once in most cases the absolute worst person in the world for them to be with. (Myself included). Psychologists have a term for it but it escapes me now. Basically you are trying to fix all the woes of your childhood by tying up with a person who treats you bad so you can "fix them" or "make amends". Supposedly people do this unconsciously.

Don't get it, but have to admit I did it a time or two, in restrospect. And for that little bit of stupidity born of youth or naivity all the good men and women out there have to deal with the not-so-good men and women for at least 18 years (if they are lucky that's all it is).

But for every "poor poor woman story", ther is a "oh my God I can't believe they did that to him" story.  Don't let it get you down. My husband (#2) and I are living proof that you can outsmart your demons and your ex's. Not saying it is easy, not saying it is fair, just that it is so.

None of this shit is a secret, and yet many men still sign up for it by choice, convinced they can't get something just as good without signing their lives away.

Who's to blame for that?

In any event, the mother of my children  utterly failed to prove I was a threat, failed even to convince her own attorney she had a case, because he urged her to drop the suit and then told my attorney of it, ended up being rebuked by the judge in visitation matters, and effectively paid my attorny fees.

Either insist on better and more equitable courts, or else avoid placing yourself under their jurisdiction by refusing to marry. Voluntarily agreeing to any one sided business transaction, then complaining when you get screwed, gets zero sympathy from me.

Duh.

Well, thank goodness my physicaly abusive EX kept having abortions....

I guess things could be much worse....

Quoted: Quoted: and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster. Patty that popped right out, a totally vindictive statement.  that's the whole point:  women are forcing men to pay for their hurt feelings.  i know one quite well now:  she feels he needs to pay, and pay big, for her lost years. eta: I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands... and therein lies the scary parts

I didn't mean it as vindictive.  I meant it as a warning to married men.  Take a look at how you treat your spouses, maybe they aren't treating you as well as you deserve but the best way to prevent divorce is stepping forward and trying again.  We all get comfortable and we all take advantage from time to time the other but we all can stop and appreciate each other as well.

As for what I was entitled.  My first husband left me after 10 years of marriage for another woman.  I had two young children at home, one severely disabled.  I asked for child support and 1/2 his retirement as I paid for every dime of his education and I felt I needed that security when our children go to college.

As for my second marriage.  We're still married, though going through a bitter divorce.  I will treat him with love and respect and ask for no more than what I deserve to care for our children.  I have no ill feelings and am not in any way vindictive and have no desire to make him pay for anything.  

I was offered alimony from the judge in my first marriage and I turned it down as I did not want my ex husband to be financially burdened so badly that he could not be happy.

So when I say I did not ask for anything I wasn't entitled too I meant it.  I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I have worked very hard to be civil and christiain.

Patty

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe the legal justice system is a lot like the stock market.  You'll find corrections.  In my parents generation a man could marry a woman, dump her with her boat load of kids after cheating and beating her and be held harmless.  She and her children were destined to poverty and social rejection.  Poor wages and sexist work detail. Not to say things are right but there is a correction in the system now. Patty It's not a correction, it's total ass raping without so much as kiss. The current system is a complete and total ass rape of men/non-custodial parents. It's complete and utter bullshit. Its true that there are a lot of ruthless immoral individuals.  However the way things were in the 60's and 70's for women was no less an ass raping.  Try to support 4 kids on $1.75 an hour with no child support and no husband all the while society is turning their nose up at you for losing your husband in the first place.  Also factor in the sexual harassment a woman had to endure during those times.  It was common place for bosses to touch, make in appropriate comments and literally treat a woman like a sexual object/subject than a respected employee.   Granted things have gone to the other extreme but considering I for one have had to endure the harassment I'll take it the way it is now.   I have never asked for more than I was entitled from my husbands, nor will I ever.  The system is faulted to say the least but I believe most men do not get raped and most men would have avoided divorce court if they would have treated their wives with the same love and respect they promised at the beginning of their relationship.  I do not approve of cheating/telling lies on the part of the woman but when men fail to live up to their campaign promises during courtship they're flirting with disaster. Patty

Working the 60-70 hours per week can kind of blunt the passion of promise. Next thing you know somebody's feeling neglected, ignored and taken for granted...

Quoted: Wait till Rodent sees this one.  He went through a lot.

I honestly wasn't aware of that.

Quoted: Quoted: I hope someday you can find someone you trust to commit to spending the rest of your life with.     really, what's the point?  i've been married off and own now for about 17 years (and "committed" for even longer) and i honestly can't say it was worth it; very few times i've hit the ground on my knees throwing my hands in the air crying out "thanks jeebus, for me being married!"  now, with the ever-present legal system having it cocked-and-loaded and pointing at me from behind really gives it that dubious quality. a lot of posters will equate marriage (and fatherhood) as being great by having survived or endured some ordeal.  that, by definition, is hardship. i didn't want to dump in that guys thread about his ill girlfriend but, again, like a lot of others whom said the same thing: if its so perfect, why aren't they married now? eta: sorry, left this part out The system is really irrelevant if you find someone you can trust and commit to (and will do the same to you), though.   BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......!!!!!

This type of attitude and inability to commit to something greater then yourself is EXACTLY why you face a lifetime of hurt and disapointment.

Life is risky, no matter what you do.  

Patty,

Nobody here approves of how you were treated by your first or second husband.  I just want you to know that.

This thread isn't about targeting you specifically at all.  It's about a major flaw in the system and why that flaw needs to be corrected ASAP, for the sake of both men and women.