But what about their [i]h u m a n i t y[/i] [>(]

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#4...severe penealties like food, clothing and shelter like offered now,albeit theres a regular wake up time in todays prisons.[rolleyes]

I agree to an extent. But that will never stop the flow of illegals into this country.

Where there is a will there is a way.

Living in California and working in a bar all I have to say is put a friggin' birthdate on their ID cards. Oh ya, and in ENGLISH. I do not speak any language except for ENGLISH and I expect anyone living in this country to be able to speak conversant ENGLISH.

If you do not speak ENGLISH do not come here.

Sorry for the little rant but this has been bothering me for awhile.

Alex

I see whwre you guys are coming from, but if you think about it the majority of American people in the US came from different countries. You can not blame everyone for actions done by others. I'm Hispanic and living in Miami I can tell you alot about dealing with people who don't speak english, or actually come and live of our Government. That really gets to me! I also agree that if they comit a crime and they are illegal, send them right back accross the border and don't keep them in jail for 3 months while we pay for their meals. But that is just my opinion

True statement.

However, those people entered through legal immigration.  The border with Mexico should be secured with razor wire, land mines, and military patrol.  The practice of issuing visas for people to come here, and then never leave should be discontinued AT ONCE.  Non citizens have no rights, so punishment should be very harsh for violators.

I don't want to hear about how this country was founded by immigrants - hell, even the native American Indians were immigrants at one time in the distant past.

It's like my house - once it was empty and void of people. Then I bought it and moved my family in!

That's it, the house is full. If and when I need more folks to move into my house I'll post a sign to that effect.

Eric The(NativeAmerican)Hun[>]:)]

As someone who has lived in several foreign countries, as a civillian,
I made sure that I followed the rules of the other countries(filing Lots of paperwork)
But the first thing I did was to learn to speak the local language.

I expect the same here and am infuriated when I see people who refuse to speak the local language here.
Especially when it is obvious that they have been here for a while.
(judging by their clothes and vehicles and willingness to use Foodstamps or how well they ask me for money.)

It is correct that this country was built by immigrants, but these people came here to become citizens of the USA. These coming across our southern border don't care about being citizens of our country, they want to turn it into North Mexico.

I agree!

Joe

[soapbox]

America is NOT a melting pot anymore! We are full up, and fed up! Tighen the boarders, like most other countrys do, and the ones that are here, sure wish they'd learn the language "english" You want to be an American, then act like one!

raf, just curious, can you give us a summary of the documentation requirements that legally resident aliens must conform to today?

Yes it should be illegal to speak anything but ENGLISH when out of the privacy of your residence.

Well, better late than never, but the immigrants we need to worry about are HERE legally.

All this talk of speaking english got me thinking....Didnt the government support ebonics as a secondary language?  That was the most outrageous thing I had ever heard.

You are partially correct.  There is no requirement for legal aliens to annually report their place of residence.  Legal permanent residents have to be registered and fingerprinted and carry their "green card" (like a national ID card) at all times.

I agree that we should start clamping down on these nasty people.  They are untrustworthy and need to be monitored tightly at all times:
Illegal aliens.
Heck, legal aliens.
Those stupid gun owning militia nuts.
American citizens, the majority of whom do not trust the government entirely, and are therefore untrustworthy.

Flame away...

[pyro]

;D

Considering that the vast majority of legal aliens do not commit any crimes, this paperwork probably made as much sense as the gun control laws do.  We, the taxpayers, spent much money hiring INS paper pushers instead of INS enforcement.



I generally agree with you here, and this is, in fact, current practice.  Alien felons in prison are paid a visit by the INS shortly before their release date and are often directly transferred out of prison into INS detention, and their deportation proceedings are started.  The law is clear, and there is really no ground for appeal.



You are correct that you have not mentioned race, and I have no interest in bringing that issue up, either.  My issue is simply with this perception that aliens are automatically suspect.  Some aliens are undesirable and nasty people, just as are some US citizens.  We should focus on the nasty people, and not waste our time on hounding the many decent aliens who have come here, are obeying our laws, and are following our code of conduct.

In your first message you say:


To me, this means that you have never actually had to deal with US immigration laws and procedures.  In many ways, they are more complex, bewildering and non-intuitive than the gun control laws or even the tax code.  It is very common for experienced INS officers and immigration attorneys to get the law wrong, and even more common for well-intentioned aliens, who are not trained as lawyers, to unwittingly and unknowingly break the law.  I invite you to actually read through the some 400 sections of the US immigration code and the further 200 odd sections of the Code of Federal Regulations at:
[url]www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/lawsregs/index.htm[/url]
before you decide to uproot people and kick 'em out for "not fully conforming with applicable statutes".

At one time, we could honestly say that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".  That day is long past.  In our country, citizens and aliens routinely unknowingly break the laws while not committing any real crime.  Kinda like the gun control laws in some ways.

We are starting to get somewhat off-topic here, but will the potential horrors be any worse than throwing people in prison for committing no real crime?

If you serve on a jury that is charged with judging citizens who have commited only a technical violation of the laws, and have not harmed any person, I hope you will first visit:
[url]www.fija.org[/url]

Didn't the Taliban just make a similar rule saying you can't speak anything except Arabic in public?

Make sure to get those damn Communist Canadians and Frenchies out too!

I support, after the proper screenings, allowing immigration from the following nations-

Germany
Finland
Norway
Sweeden
Portugal
Spain
Luxembourg
Austria
Russia and the puppet states
The Slavic nations like Bosnia, and the surrounding countries
Poland
Italy
Switzerland
England
Ireland
Scotland
Many Latin American nations like Chile, Argentina, Brazil, and so on.
Cuba
all of Asia west to the Deserts and south to the Islands
All of India and Bangladesh
and a many other nations which I assuradley forgot.

None from Israel, France, the Middle-East, Africa, Mexico, or Canada. Period.

The rest can be screened.

The Commissioner's Predictions:

Prior to the 2002 Congressional Elections.....

1.  There will be more terrorist attacks in the USA and on US assets overseas.

2.  These terrorist attacks will be conducted by radical Islamic fundamentalists who will take credit for them.

3.  The US economy will unquestionably be in recession, due in large part to a reduction in economic activity caused by fear and uncertainty in the mind of the American consumer/investor, not to mention the effect on oil prices if conventional war breaks out in Iraq and civil war starts in Saudi Arabia.

4.  Despite the fact that the economy was heading for recession before the 9/11 attacks, both Republicans and Democrats will blame the terrorist attacks solely.

5.  The American people will agree that the fundamental Islamic terrorists are responsible for the recession.

6.  The House and Senate candidates who win in 2002 will be those who can do the best job of articulating reasonable immigration reform, specifically how to track aliens and deport them when necessary.  This issue won't play well in the northeast and California blue zones, nor along the Tex-Mex border.  But for the rest of the country, it will be the winning issue.

7.  A reason why control of aliens will be important is so many native born Americans, particularly Negroes, will be out of work and the potential for urban social unrest will be higher than it's been for many years.  Unfortunately, the cost of pursuing the war on terrorism, paying for damage repair, and lack of income and sales tax revenues will combine to make reversal of earlier welfare reform measures politically impossible.

Hopefully I am wrong guys, but the handwriting is on the wall.
 

I agree that "reform" of welfare reform would be a bad thing.  But, on the other side of the coin, the chant, "No justice, no peace!" strikes lots fear into the Caucasion politician.  Frightened politicians tend to overreact.

My wife is a resident alien.(Canadian) Has been since 1975 when we got married. She is not a threst to national security and stayed by my side through 20 years of military life. She feels a very strong loyalty to the U.S. but still loves her native Canada. Should she be showen the gate too? I have no problem with illegals being sent packing, but if you have jumped through the hoops to become legal, then leave them alone. Nothing stopping a potential bad guy from becomiing a citizen you know.

Uhh.....hate to point this out, but the laws to deal with illegal immigration have been on the books for sometime.  There has been a concerted effort over the last several years to reduce enforcement efforts.  There is absolutely NO interior enforcement.  If you want things to change it's going to have to come from the great people of this nation to exert pressure on our lawmakers, who will in turn apply the pressure on the bureaucracy and so on down the line to the enforcement officers who will then be freed up to enforce the laws on the books that they are currently not allowed to enforce.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that they are not allowed to enforce the laws on the books.  This is how it is and until there's a groundswell movement to change the non-enforcement policies of the INS, things will not change and you can count on the endless flood of illegal immigrants to keep "marching" right on in this country.

MG

We need to open our border to Mexico, which Bush is already in the process of doing this.  The only way that the flow of illegals will be cut off is if the people living in Mexico don't have a reason to leave.  The economy of Mexico must improve, period.  You can put minefields, tanks, machine gun posts, electrified fences, etc. but it will do nothing to stop these people from wanting to flee to the United States.  If business was good in Mexico, paying jobs would be available and a middle class would arise.  Opening the border with Mexico will greatly increase the amount of business traffic getting into their country, and into ours.  The more paying customers our merchants can reach the more money we'll make.  

It's pretty simple, if you want to end the flow of illegals, end terrorism, crime, whatever, you have to make sure business is good and people are making money.  Money makes people far less likely to do the above things.





"Do what you will,
just don't think entrenching will solve anything."  

It shouldn't be our business to make Mexico, or anywhere else for that matter, a better place to live.

We've got enough problems as it is.

If you're here illegally, then you need to be deported.  If you break the law then you need to go to jail.  If the law is bullshit, then you/we need to change it.

Remember the rule...  It's golden.

The funny thing is that there was LEGAL imagrants that where hijacking those planes to hit the WTC.

The best technique would be to invade Canada and close the "Canadian border loophole" by remouving it completely and blocking all further imagrants from entering the country.

I [b]really[/b] hope you're being sarcastic.

scarecrow you just want to be amercican so you wont have to deal with canadas draconian laws

Traitorous elected officials must go first!

I like this one... In the definition of CONFORMITY, I would request that they learn to speak, read and write fluently ENGLISH!

I'm on the Admission's Committee for a large health care university... guess what?  You wanna come to Medical School?  You gotta speak, read, and write English!  

Its called the TOFEL, cant remember what it stands for right now... but its basically and Oral and Written examination for "foreign/ethnic" applicants... the ones who seem to have the most problems passing the exam are the Asians... At least that's been my experience.

M.

No offense to you Virginians, but rg00's attitude is EXACTLY what our problem is.  "Hey, let them all in and that will cure everything."  What pipe have you been smoking out of pal?  You obviously have NO IDEA what goes on down on the the SW border!  Sure let them all in.  Does that include the the criminals which invariably accompany the lettuce pickers?  I want cheap produce as much as the next guy.  But if that means turning our heads to the fucking cholos and assorted rifraf that accompany them, forget it!  Right now all the INS cares about is keeping IA's from entering in areas where the general public can witness it.  Creates lower property values don't ya know.  They couldn't give a rat's ass how many cross through the desert and mountains out of view from the everyday citizen.  Guess what?  The bad guys cross too.  The solution is to untie the hands of the officers working the border.  Start busting businesses that employ IA's and arrest the IA's violating our CURRENT immigration laws.  Just because "Paco the Taco" is picking fruit during the day doesn't mean he isn't engaged in alternative forms of income on his off time.  You have no idea what he's doing.  Afterall he doesn't exist in the system.  We don't even need the military on the border.  O'Reilly advocates this because he assumes that current immigration law is being enforced to the best of the INS's abilities.  WRONG!!!  Do you know what the INS's pursuit policy is?  Let me enlighten you.  If the suspect is obeying all traffic laws you may continue pursuit unless they fail to yield.  Then you must pull over or turn around and let them go.  If they start speeding, or as they often do, drive into oncoming traffic, you are to pull over immediately and let the perpetrator go.  REGARDLESS OF THE OFFENSE.  They could be a known child molester and as far as the INS is concerned you had better 10/3 the pursuit if they break even one traffic law.  In heavily populated areas this policy may have some validity, but this is the policy in even the most remote of areas.

This is just ONE example of how the INS "enforces" immigration law.  The list goes on and on.  People had better start wising up and demanding that INS enforce our immigration laws.  If not, then TAKE THEM OFF OF THE BOOKS!  This hypocracy is asinine.  Fuck selective enforcement.  Let's either do it, or don't do it.  But let's at least be honest about it.

MG

We dealt with the issue of illegal immigration on the AK forum a few days ago.  I must say, you guys are considerably more conservative than [u]some[/u] of the members over there.  Here's what a few of them had to say:



and...



and...



The link is:

[url]http://ak.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=50165[/url]

[(:|)]

I'm just curious, but why do people from Israel, France, Africa, and Canada get the short end of the stick? Have something against Jews, blacks and the French?  

I don't care where an immigrant comes from, but they must be screened. And they need to learn basic English! Offer classes and provide assistance and we won't have to worry about immigrants not being able to speak English. Make it a mandatory part of the naturalization process. In order to become an American citizen you have to have a basic understanding of English. And stop offering everything in their native language. If they aren't forced to learn English, they never will.

I have nothing against people who go through the legal steps to become American citizens. They WANT to become citizens. Be careful you don't lump both together.

Av.