So, my wife decided she has to get a new car.  Last week she decides she wants and Expedition so we can fit both the dogs and other stuff into one vehicle.  So I start doing research, not being a Ford fan at all, looking to talk her out of it.

From doing internet searches I have come to find a lot of virulent hatred for these cars.  Sure, I have a Cherokee but that is tiny.  For some reason the Expedition is the poster boy for all that is hated about SUVs.

Well, she bought it anyhow.  I only gave my blessing cause of Ford's consistent involvement in Formula One.  The thing is freakin huge and a huge gass guzzler.  Haven't quite decided whether I like the thing or not.

What do you guys think, like the big things or see them as the menace of the road?

GOD I hate those HUGE SUVs...  

They're more of a FAD now... people buy the biggest, baddest vehicle they can, deck it out with gold trim, leather seats, big ass tires... drive it like it's a race car, and NEVER, NEVER let it touch ANYTHING but asphalt!  
That makes me SICK!  Sure, there are some people who have legitimate needs for a vehicle that large, but the majority of us don't need more than a 4 door sedan!  

Small SUVs, like the Cherokee are alright.  I just hate seeing ONE person driving a HUGE ASS SUV, suckin down 1 gallon of gas every 10 miles, when all they're doing is taking their sorry butt to work and back.  
A while back here in Austin, such a person, a 20 year old guy driving a suburban, by himself (probably because a 'burban is the 'in' kind of vehicle nowadays) ran a red light, plowed into a Mustang carrying a family of 3.  Note that the Mustang has a 5 star crash test rating... but the little girl in the back seat of the 'Stang was killed.  The 'stang was totaled.  

To me, an SUV like that on the roads, being driven by just anyone, most of all soccer moms is like one of us going to a 100yard indoor range with a .50BMG.  It's OVERKILL in MANY cases!!

alright... rant mode off...

[soapbox]

First, this is one of the reasons I don't like SUV's.  It seems to give people an attitude,   not necesarily you, Gloftoe.  I drive an RX7 and I get tailgated a lot by SUV's because they think they intimidate people with them.  The only time this happens is when I am trapped by traffic, as otherwise they wouldn't be anywhere near me.  Yesterday, as I am poking along in traffic on I85 in Atlanta, a guy in a Suburban comes flying up and gets on my rear, so close that I can't see his bumper.  I politely motion him to get back and he turns on his bright lights, starts blowing his horn, and yelling to get my little car out of HIS way.  I could not go anywhere as there was traffic in front of me.  I slammed on the brakes, daring him to hit me and flung open the door.  This SOB changed lanes and was gone, using the emergency lane, before I could get out of the car.  Maybe not smart on my part, but the second he felt that his tank wasn't going to do any good, he was outta there.  Besides, by now I was thoroughly pissed.  I am by no means saying that all SUV drivers have this attitude, but some do.  People that drive small cars aren't the only one's that drive like assholes, you will find assholes in every type of vehicle.

As for the gas guzzler part, my only concern is that oil is a finite supply, so why use it all up now.

As for Ford, other than your dislike for them, do you have any proof, or is this just another Ford vs. Chevy thing?  I don't really care one way or the other, but that's kind of loose talk, accusing someone of being an anti because you don't like them.  

What's the word on that GM truck that is suposed to have a "Hum-V" Body?

I have a Tahoe and really enjoy it. With two kids, it's a whole lot easier dealing with car seats and all the other crap kids have to haul around.

Mine is two-wheel drive which is perfectly adequate since I do no off-roading or mountain climbing.[:)]

The SUVs I can't stand are the ultra-trendys like Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW, or the pseudo-SUV like Hondas and Kias.

I've rented an Expedition, and I liked it a lot.  Sure, it's a gas guzzler, but try putting your wife, two kids (both in car seats), various kid related supplies (diapers, pull ups, double stroller) and anything else in a mid-size car.  As it stands now, if we have company and want to go anywhere, we have to take two cars to do it because our Taurus effectively only seats four with the car seats.

I'd love to buy a high-MPG turbo diesel version of whichever SUV has a third row seat, but the sad fact is that they don't make them.  It's a pitty too.

And before any of you SUV bashers get after me, I drive a 2001 VW GTI 1.8T that gets 26-30+MPG depending on driving conditions.  I consistantly get 320miles per 13 gallons of 93 octane gas.

God Bless Texas

God Bless Texas

If you tow a large boat or trailer, the big SUVs are great. If not, a minivan makes a hell of a lot more sense:

1. Costs at least $10K less
2. Gets approximately double the gas mileage
3. Carries just as many passengers, just as comfortably
4. Rides like a car, instead of a truck
5. Actually fits in most garages!

Finally, at the risk of sounding like an enviro-freak, I should mention that every doubling of engine displacement roughly doubles the amount of exhaust hydrocarbons emitted.

OK, this is the virulent hatred I was talking about. [;)]

My wife's is only 2 wheel drive, though it will do some off road on the ranch we figured we didn't need the 4x4 and the 2x is lower and easier for the dogs to get in and out of.  My first impression was "this thing is so big it's stupid", until I saw the excursion which really is stupid. [;)]  

I'm still ambivalent in my feelings for this thing, but I don't get the hatred as if someone has the money and likes a big car, why should someone be pissed that they have it?  Sure many don't need it, but who "needs" an AR15?  As far as people acting like assholes behind the wheel remember, cars don't drive like assholes, assholes drive like assholes.  

Now I just gotta talk her into getting dubs so we can be like Icy Hot Suntanz. [:)]

This is exactly why SUVs are so popular----minivans.

I could never bring myself to drive a minivan. I'm sorry, but there is a "cool" factor involved here. Minivans are dorky.

Besides, most minivans are front-wheel drive 4 or 6 bangers, while most SUVs are rear-wheel drive V8s. Since rear-wheel drive and V8s are two of my new car criteria, my choices were narrowed.

I really think the pick-up/SUV craze has a lot to do with the rear-wheel drive/v8 thing. If you want a big, non-front-wheel drive vehicle, you either have to get a truck, a SUV, or a Crown Vic.

"who needs an AR15"  Me, that's who.

I hate when people who claim to be tree huggers, drive a car much bigger than they need.

I hate those aggressive drivers, but I let the laws of physics take care of them, and don't get to steamed about it.

SUV's are OK, It's some of the people that are drawn to them.

"Dorky?"

Personally, I think a Honda Oddesy or  Mazda MPV has a lot higher "coolness factor" than a bloated Expedition or Suburban. Ask yourself this: Which one do most geezers drive?

My opinion on that situation is.......if it's their money and that's what they want, why not? I ain't making the payment, but if it was what I wanted then heck ya I would. Anyways........

My friend bought an Expedition. It's kind of nice, but I noticed we were getting dirty looks from people driving normal cars a lot of the time.

Personally, I am not an SUV fan. They are very useful for certain people, but the vast majority have no need for them. They're clearly a fad with a lot of people.

Other than the bad gas milage and the difficulties associated with parking large SUVs (at least in CA where they are no large parking spaces anymore), I refuse to be ripped off. Yes, ripped off. Automakers are making gravy off those things. Not because of the merits of the vehicle, but because they are a fad. They take a truck chassis, bolt on a "shell", throw in leather seats, and jack the price up $20k.

If I were so inclined to get one, I would probably go for the newer Japanese or German models. Not because they are nicer inside, but because they are truly new designs developed from the ground up. They offer superior handling and a hell of a lot less body roll than the Ford/GM variants in which a pretty shell is just bolted on to an F150 truck frame, for instance.

I have a Jeep. I refuse to call it a SUV. The word just pisses me off.

Someday, much like soccer, people will lose interest in the idea and it will go away.

I'm still not sure why people have bought into the "evil" SUV thing that the enviromentalists have tried to pin on it.

Item #1:  For years I drove a '73 Super Beetle (helped me to afford more guns, but that's a different subject).  People would come up to me and compliment me for being so enviromentally aware and these same people would rant on SUV's.  If these rocket scientists had noticed, the Bug gets about 27mpg and that's with the ground-up engine I had build for it so it could run on unleaded gas.

Bug=27mpg
SUV=13mpg

But the Bug puts out a lot more pollutants than the modern SUV does.  And the Bug only holds 4 people where the SUV can hold 9.  So it would take two Bugs to make the same trip for eight people could make in one, traffic-reducing, enviromentally friendly, air conditioned (I'm in Arizona), noise friendly modern SUV.

Item #2: How about my current runabout...an '89 Mercury Tracer.  My friend's '99 Suburban still puts out less pullutants than my little econocar does, and again with his six kids, he can take a family trip in on vehicle instead of two and still get roughly the same mileage per passenger as my car and he's doing the ultimate carpooling thing.

Item #3: Safety.  Hmmm...take your pick...safety-wise would you rather be riding in that VW Bug or a '99 Suburban?  Or even a Honda Accord...which is a very nice car to be sure, but have you ever worked in an autobody shop to see how much styrofoam is in the bumper of some of these little cars?  Steel or styrofoam?  Take your pick...

Item #4:  Yeah, that "buy a 4x4 to drive on the freeway" strikes me odd too.

Item #5:  Chevy vs Ford = PC vs Mac?  Hmmmm...so the Chevy is capable of multithreading on the CPU level?  Ok...nevermind that...but I've generally ben a Chevy "fan."  Yes...fan.  Technologically, I don't see an overall difference.  Differences in approach, yes, but they get similar end goals.  My wife's driving a Ford luxury van now, and my isn't it the nicest thing...on a trip...that's the only way to travel!

Functionally, the Expedition is similar to the Chevy Tahoe, but it'll come down to the color of the bumper or something like that.

Item #6: Mid-size SUV's.  A friend has a Grand Cherokee...it's really nice.  She never goes offroad and basically uses it to shuttle her two kids around...that's it.  So functionally, why have the SUV at all, she could do the same thing with a Toyota Camry. They're both five-seaters.  It's all a matter of taste.

Item #7: Why pick on the big SUV when the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks are much more plentiful and have the same "evils" plus you can't carpool up 9 people in your Chevy Silverado.  Think about it, for the past...oh...20 years or so, the best selling cars in America has mostly been the Ford F-150 with the Chevy not far behind.  Yet they pick on the SUV.  Just like HCI went after semi-automatic rifles which accounted for around 1% of what was used in crimes and now talking about the "gun show loophole" which accounts for about 1.5% of how criminals get guns.

The "evil" SUV in politics is sophistry...pure and simple.

- Robbie

You're comparing apples to oranges...Either you need a new car or a tune-up!

Hey Matt,

The one thing I was really impressed with was this things handling.  It is really stable, has a great ride and very little lean in the turns.  We test drove an Isuzu Trooper and the darn thing felt like it was going to tip over at every turn.  The German ones aren't quite as large for the two doggies and the only Japanese one that compares is the Sequoia, which is 'spensive.  Our next door neighbor just bought one and I must say it is very nice, but about ten grand more than the Expedition.

BTW, when are we going to buy our Eclipses? [;)]

I was looking at the Nissan SUV's....but bought a Subaru Forester instead....GREAT CAR!!

Drives and handles like a car, great gas  mileage and power, not too tall, packs ALOT of crap.....I'd definitely buy another one.

Bulldog OUT

i htink what most SUV owners really want is an all wheel drive station wagon.

The only practical SUV today is the Aztec.  Sure it may look like a breadbox and drive like a gutless Minivan, but they are efficiently designed.

S U V`s are ok....it`s the lose nut behind the steering wheel of MANY of them that is not ok...............[stick]

Great attitude for a board that is in large part about supporting freedoms.

How about you drive what you want to, and shut the hell up about what the rest of us drive?

rant over.

Hipower,
Nice rendition of what I actually said!

You're free to drive the biggest, baddest, ugliest gas hog you want.  And I'm FREE to BITCH about it!

Like many people have said, most of the time, those huge SUVs are WAY more than people need.


And to everyone, Someone changed my words and reposted it as if I were bitching about the things we're all here because we cherish our right to bear arms, especially our ARs.  Changing up what I said, and passing it off as if I actually said it, is RUDE, and LOW CLASS.  I'm gonna get ripped, because some DICKCHEESE changed up what I said, and substituted SUV with 'rifle' 'pistol' or 'AR15'.

Don't edit someone's post, switch words around and 'quote' it as if that's what they said.

And to you who bitched about my attitude, I'm exercising my RIGHT to DISLIKE your HUGE ASS GAS GUZZLING BEAST OF A RIDE.  Not once did I say you shouldn't be allowed to own it.  Not once did I suggest they should be illegal or anything like that, now did I?  

I have a 99 Suburban and i love it. I feel my family is much safer in it. If everyone was willing to drive the exact same model of car and take the big rigs off the same road as i am driving, then i would drive a smaller car. But that will never happen and I am looking out for number one and my family first.
The MPG does suck though.

Screw SUVs, get a Scorpion MK III or a GMC 2500 w/ 4 drs, lng bed and the 496 Vortec and Allison tranny and 4wd.  Also no leather.  Lift kit and big shocks and tires.  Cool brush guard, rollbar and no stupid nerf bars.
No SUVs, only EOVs-Extreme Offroad Vehicles.
Ice

The U.S. automobile manufacturers pretty much eliminated the traditional "large" rear-wheel-drive sedan from the list of available choices, and the truck-based SUV took the sedan's place.

People like the enclosed cargo space of the SUV; it's a half-way measure between car and pickup truck.  As far as the on-road vs. off-road issues, who really cares?  If someone puts a lift kit and huge off-road tires on ANY vehicle and then never strays for the pavement, yes, *that* is stupid.  On the other hand, if SUVs are fitted with tires more suited to highway travel.... I forget, what was the problem again?

The modern SUV is simply the station wagon, born again hard.  I suspect that many of the biggest opponents of the SUV suffered emotional scars in their youth - probably due to their being forced to borrow the family Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser (complete with faux woodgrain applique) to drive on their first date.    

I have a Toyota 4Runner, and a beater S10 Pickup.  Both are 4WD.  You guessed it, the S10 is part of the 4Runner's insurance policy.  Thus far, the 4Runner has not been off road, and it will probably not see any serious abuse until it gets the honored status of "Beater", which will happen in due time.

Depending on what you do, and where you live, your definition of off roading will vary.  For me, it's snow, ice, mud, and sand driving.  East of the Appalachian mountains, there aren't too many rocks, and there is little vertical component to my driving.  Endurance is more important than agility here...

Frankly, no one has any business telling others what they need, what they should drive, or what they should shoot.

As far as using lots of gas, well we should let the market determine the price of gas and let people decdie for themselves if they want to spend more or less money buying gas. It is a free market issue, and the socialists who moralize over how others spend their money can go to hell.

I have a 1988 Jeep Cherokee with 260k miles on it, and the only real engine work is the replacement of the rear main seal. It has seen some heavy duty off road use, and quite a few times the 4x4 was a necessary feature. However, the amount of miles off pavement is only a small % of the total miles. I'd like to get a CJ-5 next. If I had the bucks, I'd get a Ford F-250 4x4 PU with the extended cab.

The little car based SUVs really are not up to lots of heavy off road use. The big SUVs are too big and heavy for serious off road use.

Thats the reason we bought a 1993 Pathfinder with the V6 because they were hated so much I figured they really have to be good.

In the "Bananna Republic of Louisiana" you need an SUV just to drive on the paved highways and Interstate 10. Need "Amphibious Duck" or "LARC 5" elsewhere.

I have called our Pathfinder an "Urban Assault Vehicle" or "UAV".......

They did so due to government regulations. The government placed restrictions on cars that were not applied to trucks. SUVs are officially trucks.

Who the hell are you to decide what other people need.

As a Ford owner, I can say that Chevy makes much better automatic transmissions, though Ford seems to be getting better and they are also looking to out source some of their tranny designs according to blueovalnews.com.  Other than that, it's really a preference thing.

God Bless Texas

Actually, I proposed that to the wife, as well as the Audi Allroad (2.7 bi-turbo v6!).  Both times she said she didn't want a station wagon.  Her parents had one whil she was growing up and I think she has some childhood trauma from it. [:)]  I personally am ok with a station wagon.



For me it's also the other way around.  I'm ok with a mini-van, but my wife isn't.  Not to mention that most of the ones I've ever driven were a little gutless.  I'm not a big fan of FWD either.



But you forget that it's the people driving them, not the SUV's themselves.  Replace "SUV's" with "guns" in that previous sentence and it's kind of frightening, no?



Indeed.

God Bless Texas

I love my GF's Expedition XLT with the big V8 and 17" tires.  Our range is on a wildlife management area with a long, really crappy road to get there.  I swear I'll kill my van going there because of all the potholes, but that truck doesnt care about those little dimples in the road.  Of course, its fun as hell to drive too.  It works quite well to haul two big German Shepards and a load of guns and ammo in the back. [:D]

Kharn

DonS

Anyone can decide what they 'need'.  Do they actually NEED it?  
Had a neighbor that had a huge 'burban... he only used it for driving himself to and from work... his wife's 'burban was the family vehicle.  He didn't have legitimate 'need' of such a vehicle for what he used it.  NEED and WANT are two different things.

Logic would dictate that if you only drive YOURSELF to and from work, you don't NEED anything more than a two seat tin can.  If you haul lumber, heavy equipment, a 6 man crew of workers, 3 children 2 dogs 2 grandparents and the kitchen sink...  etc, you might NEED an SUV.

Like I mentioned, I'm not telling anyone they can't own a huge SUV, am I?  I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to own them, am I?

Cool your jets, and remember... we all have opinions, and they're like a$$holes... we all have them, and they all stink!

Here's an SUV for those who just want BIGGER and BETTER!

[URL]http://trucks.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fposeur.4x4.org%2F[/URL]

(this is satirical, meant to get a laugh, yanno, that reaction to things that are FUNNY?)

If someone is only driving himself to work, does he need a "two seat tin can"? Wouldn't a motorcycle do? Better yet, perhaps public transportation . . .

Why do we all need to live in the "burbs" anyway? Why don't we live in apartments near where we work, you know, within walking (or at least bicycle) distance.

After all, we don't "need" to own or live in houses.

Don,

true, a motorcycle could be better, but you're less safe in one, and they're no fun in the rain.

Sure, I don't need a house to live in, a tent would shelter me.  But, however big my house, or where it is, it's not going to run into your house at high speed and kill everyone in your house, is it?

Remember, driving on our roads is a PRIVELEGE, not a RIGHT.  As you know, thousands of people DIE in cars every year.  MOSTLY because someone wasn't paying attention to what they were doing.  You get more and more people driving huge SUVs, they'll cause more damage than smaller cars in collisions.  Trying to outclass and outsize everyone else on the road ain't much fair to the people who have to drive little tin cans.
Me, I'd feel pretty upset if someone I loved was smashed and killed in their little car by someone who thought they 'needed' that SUV...

I pulled emissions esting for '91 and '99.  Basically I find that California and Arizona test in vastly different ways (CA measuring parts per million and AZ measuring grams per mile), but my little runabout still passes with flying colors, though not by as much as it used to.

Tune up?  It was in July at the 180,000 mile mark.  It's little Mazda-based engine hearkens back to 80's technology while the new Suburbans have that new Chevy small block.

And yes...I need a new car!


*eyes new C5 Corvette*

The reason for this is most SUVs [b]are trucks!![/b]

Last year I was driving my GMC S15 Jimmy home after the Fourth of July holiday in stop-and-go traffic when some Moron In A Minivan slammed into several cars at full speed.  My Jimmy actually left the the ground from the impact and landed 12 feet away before skidding to a stop sideways in the center divider.

The Highway Patrol and ambulance were already there cleaning up the scene of a previous accident and came over to help us out.  The minivan was totalled, and the paramedics were carrying the family out of the minivan into the ambulance.  I could tell the driver of the other car - a brand new Ford Mustang - was still alive because of the way she was screaming and crying.  But I've never seen so much blood before. When I left they were still trying to pry her out of the totaled pony car with the Jaws of Life.

Even though I received the brunt of the impact along with the other vehicles, my injuries were minor compared to the occupants in the other two cars, and my Jimmy immediately started after the accident and I drove it the 60 remaining miles home without incident.  And while the bill from the body shop was over $2k, it still pales in comparison to the other two vehicles that were total losses.

Modern unibody cars like to brag about "crumple zones" that give and colapse in a collision.  I say fuck that - give me a full-length steel truck chassis and let the other guy sit inside his "crumple zone" that used to be a car!!!

If you're worried about "touchy-feely" crap like emissions or the environment, go ahead and buy your wife a Taurus.  But if you care more about who's inside the vehicle that what's outside of it, put your wife and kids in an SUV.

Ahhh.

But all of this would be solved if we lived in apartments and walked to work. After all, it is our houses in the 'berbs' that cause us to commute in the first place. Even if we all drove small cars, fatalities would continue. The real solution is to live near work.

AR15Fencer,

Just showing ya one prime example of the dangers of lettin' ASSWIPES like yourself tell us what we need.  You mention you're free to bitch about SUV's, and I fully agree, so long as your not bitching about what I may want or need.  If you don't want an SUV, don't drive one.  If you don't like them, say you don't like them, but when you say that I or anyone else doesn't need one, I'm going to tell you to eff off.  You don't have any right to tell me what I need or want or anything else.

You are correct that I should have removed the quote html from your post.  Sorry , bout that.

Everyone,  Please refrain from ripping on AR15Fencer due to the subsitution of Black rifle for SUV in his quote, that was me.

Free free to rip him a new one if you feel as I do, that he's a jackwad who feels he is somehow superior and knows better than us, our needs and that everyone should toe his line.