Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system.

Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information:
(could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?)

www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/

I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need.

Quoted: I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need.

Please clarify:

Do you think its funny Verizon now may be sued?
Do you think its funny Verison sued Vonage on bad patents?
Sprint buying "them" will result in money for what?

It appears that Vonage will win the appeal now - they have cut advertising costs enough to make a profit (they would have been profitable in past years if they hadn't pursued advertising and growth so strongly) - looks like turn around time.  Vonage will likely remain profitable for many years although slowly loosing market share to competitors if they stay with their current strategy and no longer push so hard for growth.

Quoted: Quoted: I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need. Please clarify: Do you think its funny Verizon now may be sued? Do you think its funny Verison sued Vonage on bad patents? Sprint buying "them" will result in money for what? It appears that Vonage will win the appeal now - they have cut advertising costs enough to make a profit (they would have been profitable in past years if they hadn't pursued advertising and growth so strongly) - looks like turn around time.  Vonage will likely remain profitable for many years although slowly loosing market share to competitors if they stay with their current strategy and no longer push so hard for growth.

I think it's all funny.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need. Please clarify: Do you think its funny Verizon now may be sued? Do you think its funny Verison sued Vonage on bad patents? Sprint buying "them" will result in money for what? It appears that Vonage will win the appeal now - they have cut advertising costs enough to make a profit (they would have been profitable in past years if they hadn't pursued advertising and growth so strongly) - looks like turn around time.  Vonage will likely remain profitable for many years although slowly loosing market share to competitors if they stay with their current strategy and no longer push so hard for growth. I think it's all funny.

i think its funny that whoever made the order to Sue VONAGE using this info will lose thier job

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need. Please clarify: Do you think its funny Verizon now may be sued? Do you think its funny Verison sued Vonage on bad patents? Sprint buying "them" will result in money for what? It appears that Vonage will win the appeal now - they have cut advertising costs enough to make a profit (they would have been profitable in past years if they hadn't pursued advertising and growth so strongly) - looks like turn around time.  Vonage will likely remain profitable for many years although slowly loosing market share to competitors if they stay with their current strategy and no longer push so hard for growth. I think it's all funny. i think its funny that however made the order to Sue VONAGE using this info will lose thier job

I know that wasnt me, so I aint skured.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need. Please clarify: Do you think its funny Verizon now may be sued? Do you think its funny Verison sued Vonage on bad patents? Sprint buying "them" will result in money for what? It appears that Vonage will win the appeal now - they have cut advertising costs enough to make a profit (they would have been profitable in past years if they hadn't pursued advertising and growth so strongly) - looks like turn around time.  Vonage will likely remain profitable for many years although slowly loosing market share to competitors if they stay with their current strategy and no longer push so hard for growth. I think it's all funny. i think its funny that however made the order to Sue VONAGE using this info will lose thier job I know that wasnt me, so I aint skured.

hey you ..  

get off this forum and go make sure your forum has more BOTD postd for when i get home !

Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/

Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.  

Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles.

This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet".

Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet.

think its funny that whoever made the order to Sue VONAGE using this info will lose thier job

No you don't understand they way Verizon/GTE/Contel/MCI (whoever we are this week) works. The person who gave the go ahead on this will be promoted to another job they are not qualified for and cost us more money there. Or at least that is the way it has worked for the last 25 years that I've seen.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work for Verizon, and I think it's funny. Maybe if Sprint buy's them they will have the backing ($$$) they need. Please clarify: Do you think its funny Verizon now may be sued? Do you think its funny Verison sued Vonage on bad patents? Sprint buying "them" will result in money for what? It appears that Vonage will win the appeal now - they have cut advertising costs enough to make a profit (they would have been profitable in past years if they hadn't pursued advertising and growth so strongly) - looks like turn around time.  Vonage will likely remain profitable for many years although slowly loosing market share to competitors if they stay with their current strategy and no longer push so hard for growth. I think it's all funny. i think its funny that however made the order to Sue VONAGE using this info will lose thier job I know that wasnt me, so I aint skured. hey you ..   get off this forum and go make sure your forum has more BOTD postd for when i get home !

I have no control over the porn on my forum.

Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet.

Hey, the "Verizon ownes the internet" was funny.

Here is the latest article that talks about how the information patented by Verizon was actually discussed as part of an OPEN STANDARDS forum which resulted in two published papers back in 1997.  The same things that were discussed in 1996 as open standards in "The VoIP Forum".  It is interesting how it can go from an "open standard" to being owned by one company.

Link: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130864-c,webtelephonyconferencing/article.html
www.pcworld.com/article/id,130864-c,webtelephonyconferencing/article.html

Next we'll actually discover that Al Gore first came up with the VoIP technology in 1988. ...actually there will probably be more people coming out of the woodwork who published or conferred about such technology earlier than 1996.

More detailed info on the information that was invented by someone else other than Verizon:
techdirt.com/article.php?sid=20070417/005814

QUOTE:

Eric Voit, the author of the two "name translation" patents (6,104,711-filed March 6, 1997; 6,282,574-filed February 24, 2000) in Verizon's patent litigation against Vonage, was not the original and first inventor of the claims in dispute. The 16 lines associated with the two surviving claims assert the invention of "name translation" in the context of VoIP call-set up and termination via a telephony gateway. See claims and links to patents: http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Vonage The topic of "call set up", "name translation", and "telephony gateways" was discussed extensively in the year prior to the first Voit patent by participants in both the two main VoIP open standards development efforts - SIP and H.323. In particular, the claims in both patents were anticipated by open standards assembled by the VoIP Forum (H.323) in 1996 and published in January 1997 with the participation of members from Cisco Systems, Microsoft, IBM, Nortel, Intel, Motorola, Lucent, and Vocaltec Communications, among others. See: IMTC Voice over IP Forum Technical Committee, "IMTC Service Interoperability Implementation Agreement", Draft 0.91, January 13, 1997. The Eric Voit patent applications reflect, in particular, contributions made by VocalTec Communication to the VoIP Forum during 1996 and formally published at the same time as a separate document. See: O. Kahane and S. Petrack, "Call Management Agent System: Requirements, Function, Architecture, and Protocol," IMTC VoIP Forum Contribution, Seattle, Washington, January, 1997. The work of the VoIP Forum, publication plans, and disclosure requirements were noted in a correspondence between the VoIP Forum and the ITU Telecommunications Standardization Sector. See: ITU Telecommunications Standardization Sector, Document AVC-1086, Istvan Sebestyen, December 5, 1996. Verizon filed another patent application (6,298,062) in the same time period that does reference the Kahane-Petrack paper of January 1997. The two Voit "name translation" patents address the identical subject matter with the '574 patent specifically labeled as a continuation of the '711 patent. They assert different claims, but they share the same abstract, references, and description sections. In any case, the notion of "name translation" in "call set up" involving "telephony gateways" was by no means invented by Eric Voit in March 1997.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet. Hey, the "Verizon ownes the internet" was funny. Here is the latest article that talks about how the information patented by Verizon was actually discussed as part of an OPEN STANDARDS forum which resulted in two published papers back in 1997.  The same things that were discussed in 1996 as open standards in "The VoIP Forum".  It is interesting how it can go from an "open standard" to being owned by one company. Link: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130864-c,webtelephonyconferencing/article.html www.pcworld.com/article/id,130864-c,webtelephonyconferencing/article.html Next we'll actually discover that Al Gore first came up with the VoIP technology in 1988. ...actually there will probably be more people coming out of the woodwork who published or conferred about such technology earlier than 1996.

Well, no one else thought to patent it.  That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet. Hey, the "Verizon ownes the internet" was funny. Here is the latest article that talks about how the information patented by Verizon was actually discussed as part of an OPEN STANDARDS forum which resulted in two published papers back in 1997.  The same things that were discussed in 1996 as open standards in "The VoIP Forum".  It is interesting how it can go from an "open standard" to being owned by one company. Link: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130864-c,webtelephonyconferencing/article.html www.pcworld.com/article/id,130864-c,webtelephonyconferencing/article.html Next we'll actually discover that Al Gore first came up with the VoIP technology in 1988. ...actually there will probably be more people coming out of the woodwork who published or conferred about such technology earlier than 1996. Well, no one else thought to patent it.  That's the way the cookie crumbles.

There's a difference between open standard and forgot to patent it.

Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet.

Vonage VOIP does in deed go out over the internet - maybe by VPN, but it does go - folks were using it in Korea over S Korean internet service to have stateside numbers (were, because the S Korean phone companies got it banned, to force the use of their products)...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet. Vonage VOIP does in deed go out over the internet - maybe by VPN, but it does go - folks were using it in Korea over S Korean internet service to have stateside numbers (were, because the S Korean phone companies got it banned, to force the use of their products)...

Vonage is not true VOIP. It may use the internet but real LECs and wireless carriers will not be using the internet as part of their transport once VOIP is deployed.

VOIP will be, once it is all completely deployed, carried on a company's intranet and networked to some other company's intranet if the call is to someone with another carrier.  Once it is fully deployed, trunks will be a thing of the past.

Yes, it will be using internet protocols but will be private network driven.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet. Vonage VOIP does in deed go out over the internet - maybe by VPN, but it does go - folks were using it in Korea over S Korean internet service to have stateside numbers (were, because the S Korean phone companies got it banned, to force the use of their products)... Vonage is not true VOIP. It may use the internet but real LECs and wireless carriers will not be using the internet as part of their transport once VOIP is deployed. VOIP will be, once it is all completely deployed, carried on a company's intranet and networked to some other company's intranet if the call is to someone with another carrier.  Once it is fully deployed, trunks will be a thing of the past. Yes, it will be using internet protocols but will be private network driven.

Somebody may want to let Vonage know to update their company information sheet, the one that touts them as the "# 1 US VoIP provider"

VoIP is not limited to within a corporate environment.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like the truth is coming out in the Verizon patents which will likely effect the Vonage appeal.  Patents held by Verizon were publicly discussed information on the "VOIP forum" before Verizon decided to patent them.  Hooray for the internet! - our forum activities and information availability can serve as a slap in the face to those who try to abuse the patent system. Read the article at itworld.com on the prior publishing of the now patented information: (could the forum publisher sue Verizon on copyright infringement?) www.itworld.com/Net/3303/070418verizonpatent/ Gee, Daniel Berninger, who helped launch Vonage, SAID all this in an interview for a magazine.   Well, Diane Feinstein SAID we should not be allowed to own black rifles. This also doesn't sound like Verizon claims to own the internet as one thread recently claimed.  Sounds like they own a piece of VOIP technology which is a far cry from "they own the internet". Just FYI, VOIP calls do not go out over the internet, they are carried on each company's private intranet. Vonage VOIP does in deed go out over the internet - maybe by VPN, but it does go - folks were using it in Korea over S Korean internet service to have stateside numbers (were, because the S Korean phone companies got it banned, to force the use of their products)... Vonage is not true VOIP. It may use the internet but real LECs and wireless carriers will not be using the internet as part of their transport once VOIP is deployed. VOIP will be, once it is all completely deployed, carried on a company's intranet and networked to some other company's intranet if the call is to someone with another carrier.  Once it is fully deployed, trunks will be a thing of the past. Yes, it will be using internet protocols but will be private network driven. Somebody may want to let Vonage know to update their company information sheet, the one that touts them as the "# 1 US VoIP provider" VoIP is not limited to within a corporate environment.

When VOIP is fully deployed, it will be, but not just one corporation.  All the carriers will be networked with each other.

Quoted: When VOIP is fully deployed, it will be, but not just one corporation.  All the carriers will be networked with each other.

Circuit switched end to end is long dead.  It seems we may be arguing similar points.

Quoted: Quoted: When VOIP is fully deployed, it will be, but not just one corporation.  All the carriers will be networked with each other. Circuit switched end to end is long dead.  It seems we may be arguing similar points.

Right now, there is still a lot of circuit switched, end to end.  In fact, the majority of traffic is still carried that way.  I know, I am a switch tech for a major wireless carrier.

Quoted: Somebody may want to let Vonage know to update their company information sheet, the one that touts them as the "# 1 US VoIP provider" VoIP is not limited to within a corporate environment.

From what I understand, Vonage has the most VoIP subscribers in the US but another company is projected to exceed their subscribership in the next few months - Comcast iirc.

Another piece of news is another company claiming to have basically the same patent as one of the Verizon patents.  If you go to patent law blogs and IT blogs, there is lots of shouting about overly broad patents and the fact that much of the VoIP patents out there can be argued back and forth if they are they same thing or not - many cover the same areas.  

There is patent reform going on right now with the 2007 Patent Reform Act.  Overly broad patents are usually just money making schemes that end up stifling innovation.  In the EU they have similar problems with such patents being created but no one is trying to enforce those patents.  There are two EU patents that cover the broad concept of selling via the internet - just imagine the names they could go after in Europe if they were willing to enforce such ridiculousness.

I have messed around with the patent process a bit, both in using "patent companies" and trying to go the whole patent process myself.  Many of those companies hand your info back to you as not worth patenting then a couple of years later you see your idea being sold.  If you do decide to patent something, do a patent attorney review for similar patents but do the rest yourself - my recommendation.

Two points:

1. The filing date is not the hard deadline for showing that you invented something before it was public.  In the U.S., the law is about "first to invent."  You have up to one year to file after you begin discussing the idea in public.  Also, if you keep an "inventor's notebook" which is regularly witnessed (signed and dated), the USPTO will grant a patent to you even if someone else files first, if your witnessed notebook predates the other person's research or discussion.

In this case, you guys are writing that the discussion happened in 1996.  As long as the inventors can prove that they were researching their invention prior to the discussion, OR if they were the ones discussing it and the public discussion took place after March 1996, OR if Vonage is just whining and bitching about their loss, then the patents are still perfectly valid.

2. This stuff went through the court system already.  Vonage undoubtedly used it in their lawsuit, and undoubtedly showed it to the USPTO.  They've already lost on this in both venues.  Whining about it after having already lost isn't going to change anything.

Quoted: Well, no one else thought to patent it.  That's the way the cookie crumbles.

what kind of idiot would try to patent an open standard?

Quoted: Two points: 1. In this case, you guys are writing that the discussion happened in 1996.  As long as the inventors can prove that they were researching their invention prior to the discussion, OR if they were the ones discussing it and the public discussion took place after March 1996, ...

The forum discussion in 1996 was multiple industry professionals discussing it as an open standard or informal agreement of professionals to use this set standard.

2. This stuff went through the court system already.  Vonage undoubtedly used it in their lawsuit, and undoubtedly showed it to the USPTO.  They've already lost on this in both venues.  Whining about it after having already lost isn't going to change anything.

Vonage didn't use this in court.  An IT professional that was formerly linked to Vonage's start-up came forward with the information as a result of the court case.  Additionally, 3com now claims to have a single patent that covered all the information of the three Verizon patents that was also granted in 1997.

Then there is the fact that the whole internet was based on data over telephone lines - no big leap to send telephone information over the same lines in a different format and then switch back to a standard telephone signal.