OK it's actually a Century Arms Rifle hunk o crap.

You won't believe this one.

I get a call this morning from "Joe Blow" wanting to know if his M1 Garand has come in yet. I don't remember ordering a M1 Garand and assume he want one. I begin to tell him the best ones are through the CMP program. He says "NO, it's already been ordered I was seeing if it came in yet." I assume Joe Blow is on crack or whatever and say "Nope, not in yet."

Low and behold 2 hours later UPS makes a delivery. I sign for it since it's not COD and notice the return is Burns Bros. I open it and out comes 1 Century Arms POS Garand. I call Burns Bros. and find out it was billed to Joe Blows credit card, they already had my FFL on file.

Joe Blow soon calls and asks "Is it in yet?" and explains it should be delivered soon because he tracked the package. He wants to know how soon he can pick it up and if I HAVE to do a background check since he is only receiving what is already his property. I say "No I haven't checked that gun in yet." Which is true but I implied I hadn't received it.

For a little background my partners and I do not order, receive or transfer Century Arms guns for liability reasons. Also this bozo just called around in SGN armed with my business card till he found a co. that had my FFL on file and would accept the order then placed it on his credit card. I call Burns Bros. and advise them to remove my FFL from their files stating they would get no more of my business. They could give a crap. Now I have on e less distributer for firearms.

Joe Blow calls to see if his gun is here. I explain that we have a few problems. One, I didn't order this gun. Two, we don't handle Century Arms guns at all. And three, he's got a lot of frickin' nerve to conduct business on MY license and not the kind of person I am interested in doing business with.

I state that I am returning the gun and he will be charged a restock fee by Burns Bros. and that I will charge him for the return shipping. He says ok fine, I'll buy it from you...what do you charge 10%? I say, you don't understand, we do not handle Century Arms products at ANY PRICE.

Joe Blow gets really pissed. Starts going on about "It's MY RIFLE, I already paid for it, It's NOT YOUR PROPERTY to send back, IT'S MINE." Then he says, "Your an FFL anyway, this is what YOU DO. You transfer guns for people who order them! I'm doing you a favor by giving you business. I'm gonna tell EVERYONE what a ripoff you are and how you screw people." In other words "I sell fries, he wants fries, give me fries."

So now I fell like getting Joe Blow arrested. I'm pretty sure I can do it. Problem is ATF don't need any help or encouragement from me. I'm also not positive I can keep it on a local level. When this guy comes down I'm pretty sure I'm gonna end up kicking his ass.

Unbelievable.

I'll be happy to take it off your hands!

You should let other dealers you know about this guy.  Don't go to the ATF unless he gives you more trouble.

You should hit him with your mullet!  [:P]

I say you charge him 120% for the rifle, make him pay for, do you have that credit card number?

This guy is pretty scary.  He does understand that is like saying You license uranium, so he called the proccessors of it and had them ship it to you and then expects you to just give it to him.  

I say make some money on it, make him sign an agreement that he understands that he has bought said POS and will go back to the POS manufacturer and then charge him 45% markup.

Good luck Steyr,
Ice

He should have called you first to double check with you.  Even if a company has a local FFL on file I always call first.

So I agree that the customer did not follow the correct procedure, having said that I think that you acted like a much bigger prick then you needed to.

FFLs have got the consumer by the balls and WAY to many FFLs let the power go to their head.  Just tranfer the rifle for the guy and get off your high horse.

Worried about the rifle?  Make him sign something that it was for display only and "do not fire"

You could have easily made this guys day and let him get a rifle that he was very excited to get, but no you had to screw with the guy.

My C&R license was the best money I have EVER spent so I don't have to deal with gun shops and dealers like you.

Alright SteyrAUG I want my gun back! Just kidding. Another successful transaction I see. You know if you treat people like crackheads - even if they are - that's what you're likely to attract. See, I'm here! Looking forward to your next interaction with the public.

I want a free rifle POS or not if its free ill even pay for shiping

Bwahahaha!  ROTF!

All your Garand are belong to me!

M.

[b]Is this scenario possible?[/b]

Joe Blow calls Burns and tells them he wants to buy a Garand.  

Burns tells him they need to ship to a local dealer for delivery.

[b]BURNS[/b] tells Joe Blow we have a licensed dealer called SteyrAUG in your town.  We can ship it to him and you pick it up from him.

Possbile this is the way it happened?  I find it hard to believe that Joe Blow called around until he found someone with your FFL on file...

Fock him and his rifle! I have done transfers thru my dealer and always asked for permission. Then, after paying the transfer fee, gave hima gift of some kind( usually beer.) He is doing you a favor by getting you a firearm you want at low prices.My dealer won't do a transfer like that for anything he stocks or sells. Very fair. SA, I would just send it back to the company that sent it and tell Joe Blow to to F.O.

The FFL took time and money to get its like right to refuse service to anyone. I think he should send the rifle back and then sue the hell out of the company for not checking with him. In my opinion they are just concerned with making money. Its like the bad friend that asume that because you own a boat he can use it whenever he wants without asking FIRST.

I have been inside burns bro. long island store several times. They are nasty arrogant miserable people. They will been the cause for any new bans on long island. They cater to trash and sell trash. My favorite is the younger brother and his skinhead buddy loading and cocking pistols behind the counter and twirling them to impress each other. The best was the laser beam mounted to the ak-74 trash they sell and pointing it at one another for laughs. They are classic little people angry at the world because they weigh 98 pounds soaking wet and couldnt ask out a girl unless they we in a group giggling like little girls. They make me sick....I rather not go into the time there buddy came in showing off his homemade autosear ! dont believe me ? well your going to just have to take my word. I wouldnt deal with burns bro. to save my soul........Ok , time to come back down and breathe..........just my 3 cents

Geoff, it's quite ironic that you feel this way about FFL's...  Especially since you ordered a LEGP from us ([i]in addition to a stripped lower[/i]), tied up our time and money, then DEMANDED a refund after accepting the terms of the order!

FWIW: I too am glad you have your C&R, because us DEALERS certainly don't need customers like YOU!

First off, NO ONE conducts business on MY LICENSE. I am the person who is liable for it.



The correct procedure is: Customer wants a gun and calls ME. I see if I can get it and quote a price. PERIOD.



Not on a high horse. If he wanted the rifle he should have ordered it from me. I would have charged him 10% ($40.00) + transfer fees. Guess what FFLs cost money and so do code and zoning permits, occupational licenses and overhead. If you don't like it, pull your own FFL.



I have apolicy about Century Arms. I also have one about Smith & Wesson. The customers DO NOT dictate my policies.



I probably could have paid his light bill too. But I'm not going to. And you have it backwards. He screwed with me. If he hadn't tried to backdoor me, in an effort to save $40.00, I would have steered him to the CMP program, gotten him hooked up with a REAL M1 Garand and not made a dime. He would have spent slightly more money, I wouldn't have made anything but I would have been happy to do it.



Like ME? You mean cheatin, robbin bastards out to hose you out of 10%? Well excuse the fuck outta me for trying to break even. I swear, pulling an FFL is the biggest mistake I ever made because of prick assholes like you who expect something for nothing.

My FFL is on file with EVERY major distributor in SGN. Cause if Company A has it $10.00 cheaper than Company B, I can't get it from B and still make money. Everyone has the Company A price and will not accept ANYTHING else. This guy called several companies until he found one that would put the order on HIS credit card.

After talking to Burns Bros. and several other companies he contacted, he called up and said, I need to check if you have a FFL on file, then tried to place the order. At least 3 distributors would not take the order from him saying on the FFL holder can place the order.

GeoffM24,
I think you are missing the point. This jerkoff went behind his back using HIS license without permission. Some Century products have lots of problems especially the garands, he is within his rights to refuse to sell or transfer them in order to protect himself form possible liability. Would you do what he did to your local dealer? If so, I think you did them a favor by getting your C&R.

SteyrAug, tell him your transfer fee for century stuff is 50% and a signed waiver of liability stating you recommend it not be fired.

BrenLover

damn... sure sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth, on his part.  Has he ever purchased from you before?

How about this idea?

Have the jerk sign the above suggested waiver about receiving a non-shooting display model.

And then charge him more than he would pay in return shipping and restocking fees, about double.

The idea is HE decides it is better return it. Maybe he will take it anyway.

Then finish the transaction with a very strong suggestion that he NEVER comes back.

You could probably do any of the following on spite:

Keep it.

Charge for your time to open the package, book it in, then send it back to Burns.

Charge an exorbitant transfer fee.

How about this idea?

Have the jerk sign the above suggested waiver about receiving a non-shooting display model.

And then charge him more than he would pay in return shipping and restocking fees, about double.

The idea is HE decides it is better return it. Maybe he will take it anyway.

Then finish the transaction with a very strong suggestion that he NEVER comes back.



Or, I'll give you $25 to strip the POS and cut the receiver in half. Then throw ½ in the Atlantic and the other ½ into the Golf.

Why would you throw half into a VW ?

Where is my Hase Pfeffer!

No Slack!

So you drive/tow it to the Pacific Northwest and throw them both into the ocean. [:I]

I don't get it.  The guy throws some business your way and you piss him off because you don't like the kind of rifle he ordered?  That makes no sense, even if it is a piece of trash.  What, are you liable if it blows up in his face or something?  If so, why then would you offer to give it away to someone else?

Sounds like you need a course in business management, just like most FFLs out there.  Ever heard the phrase "the customer is always right?"  That applies even when the customer is a buffoon, you know?

This is why I hate FFLs and don't think they're doing anyone a favor by being in business.  The premise that we lowly citizens can't get guns unless you exist is just bullshit.  

The only thing the guy really did that was inappropriate was having the gun shipped on your FFL without letting you know first.  Big deal!

While I have abused SteyrAUG on other occasions, he is dead-on right here. I don't blame him for being POed.

I'm not sure of the best way to handle this mess, but telling the "customer" and Burns to take a flying phuck is a start.

I'm pretty good friends with my FFL, above and beyond the shop, but would never presume to do a transaction without squaring it with him first.

You FFL holders would know; is what Burns did legit?

he wasnt mad because of the weapon type he was mad because of the guy ordering without permission the rifle manufacture was just the cherry on top.

The person was in the wrong for using your FFL to order a firearm without your permission. This is why I always go to the dealer and ask him to order said item. This way, he knows what's coming in and who ordered it. My dealer charges me 10% which at times don't seem quite enough as when I just ordered a SA M1 carbine receiver for $65. He was only going to charge me $10, I kicked in another $5 for his troubles on filling out the paperwork.
Treat your FFL dealers good and most will respond in kind.

What do you think all those lawsuits are about..?



You can't get any new ones.

The guy should have checked with you first to see if you do transfers. That`s what I do. I know they make less on guns they transfer for me. That`s why I make sure to buy ammo and cleaning supplies from them when I`m not purchasing a firearm. One hand washes the other. They don`t have the overhead of maintaing a large inventory, and they make money on the other stuff they have a higher markup on. Just a thought.

trickshot,

"the customer is always right" that sounds like something someone who was never in business would say. THE CUSTOMER IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. If a customer lies, cheats, screws you, you do not reward them! My father puts up with alot of ignorance and incompetance from some of his customers, he takes most with a grain of salt and bites his tounge but has more than a few who got verbal ass reaming after being caught lieing/cheating him. He tells them never to darken his door again and he has less problems for it.

On a side note I have worked in several large retail outlets and seen outrageous things customers do like...Bring back MEAT FROM ANOTHER STORE and want and get a refund.

Go-carts brought back after they were beat onadmitedly by the customer.

Clothing brought back after being worn to a function saying they decided they didn't like it.

THEY ALL GOT THEIR MONEY BACK!!! :(

People have no clue what retail is like until you WORK IT. And no I dont mean a stock boy at Walmart, I mean a active role in operating one!

BrenLover

Dear Anti:

Let me refresh your memory.  I did indeed talk to you about a stripped lower, but never ordered one, please feel free to double check.

I also never demand a refund, Grin canceled my ordered after I expressed frustration with an 8 1/2 weeks wait after I was led to believe my rifle would be ready in a a few weeks.

Wal Mart is a different story.  We're talking about a small business that survives on its regular customers.  And yes, I recognize that the guy didn't ask permission to have something sent.  But it didn't cost him anything to receive it, except a few minutes logging it in maybe.  Where's the loss?  Century Arms M1s do suck, but that's a personal opinion only.

And yes, I've been involved in businesses that deal with the public before and I know what a pain in the ass it is. Still, if someone wants to buy some shitty piece of crap rifle and I can make 10% on it, I would sell it to him.  I see guys buying lots of shitty, worn out C&R rifles all the time, I don't try to stop them.  That's what they want to buy, that's fine.  They go away happy.  Why coddle them?

As far as go-karts being returned broken, clothes worn to one function, etc. If the store has a liberal return policy, they should live up to their side of the bargain.  They could just as easily say "All sales final" if they don't want to endure what you describe.  Wal-Mart in particular, makes so much money that they don't care what gets returned, even if it didn't come from their store in the first place.  By the way, returning an item to the wrong store is fraud, and the perpetrators can be arrested, especially if it is an ongoing problem.

Anti, what do you mean we wouldn't get any new guns?  How do illegal drugs get into this country?  Can you imagine what would happen if all FFLs were voided tomorrow?  If people still want guns, they will get them.  

I have never purchased a firearm from an FFL.  My dad used to be an FFL so he has given some firearms from his collection. Or I bought them from private individuals. So anyways FFL dealers my question to you.

I go into the local hardware, (about the only FFL in the area) and go looking for a Mosin Nagant.  He has none,  but he has a lot of other firearms that are expensive as hell.  I understand that he has to raise his price to make profit but these firearms are out of my price range.  I ask him if he does transfers and he does.  I told him I want him to order me a Mosin.  He tells me it will cost 50 bucks for him to do it.  So I think to myself:  I could buy two for that much,  if I'm going to pay 50 dollars I might as well order two of them.  So I say what if I order two of them.  He told me 100 dollars.  I asked him if he normally stocked Mosins and he said no.  I told him that if he had some in stock at a later time I would buy it from him.  

Anyways,  what is the best way to work with an FFL so you both make out.  Oh and I applied for a C&R so I won't need him for the cheapo rifles.  I'd gladly pay 50 bux for a new AR or handgun.

Thanks!

Smalls

LCpl of Marines

I'm guessing you are an older FFL that is used to doing business the old fashioned way, correct?

Anybody who gets the shotgun news or has a computer can get a price from a shop.  There is no need to call an FFL for a price.

Also, many shops, including AIM Surplus or Entreprise Arms for example will give you a list of FFLs on file in your area to call.

So as you can see the FFL has no part of the shopping to this point.  The only thing the FFL is needed for is the delivary.

You also have no idea of how I treat my local FFL since you are not him.  I always buy something in his shop when I DRIVE there to ASK permission and when I pick it up.

So as you can see the FFL is not needed for anything.  Hell when I bought my FN FAL reciever my FFL DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A FAL WAS.  And I'm supposed to go to him for prices and info.

I agree that the customer was wrong, but you screwed with the guy and made an enemy.  You can also bet your ass he will talk to 20 times the people a satisfied custmer will.  

But alas that is YOUR choice.

Geoff:  You are right, I did cancel your order because you were being a pain in the ass whiner.  

If being upset that a rifle that was supposed to be delivard in a few weeks ended up taking 11-13, call me guilty.

No this guy conducted business on MY LICENSE. My FFL is not public domain. It is MINE. I paid a lot of money and went through a lot of crap to get it.

Smalls, I'm with you I would not have bought anything from him either, 100% markup to order something is ridiculous. As a result he dosn't get the sale and you look elsewhere.

Trickshot,
Return policy is not the point, I'm sure none of these places say "Bring us your broken/abused/not purchased from us shit and we'll refund it", if a customer knowingly brings back something after they ABUSED IT, USED IT, BROKE IT and wants a refund they are WRONG! The customer is RIGHT "IF" a item was from the CORRECT store, maybe wrong size or color and they want an exchange, manufacturing defect/fault, gift and they dont want.

If a customer comes in grabs something marked $10 and offers you $2 you dont do it because they are "right" and demand it.

If you buy a new mustang, drag race it every weekend for a year, peel out at every light, jump RR tracks, do burnouts, blow out the clutch, run it on 2 qts of oil and take it back to the dealer for a refund/exchange because something is "not right" should you get it because your the customer and you are always right?

trickshot you have ALOT to learn about retail. Maybe you work at a place that can afford that because they have a$$loads of money to eat customer F$uckups, but that makes it no less wrong, morally or ethically

Originally posted by tloc45
I have been inside burns bro. long island store several times. They are nasty arrogant miserable people. They will been the cause for any new bans on long island. They cater to trash and sell trash. My favorite is the younger brother and his skinhead buddy loading and cocking pistols behind the counter and
twirling them to impress each other. The best was the laser beam mounted to the ak-74 trash they sell and pointing it at one another for laughs. They are classic little people angry at the world because they weigh 98 pounds soaking wet and couldnt ask out a girl unless they we in a group giggling like little girls. They make me sick....I rather not go into the time there buddy came in showing off his homemade autosear ! dont believe me ? well your going to just have to take my word. I wouldnt deal with burns bro. to save my soul........Ok , time to come back down and breathe..........just my 3 cents

I've only been to Burns once, it's definitly a weird place. But they do have shitloads of ammo. A friend of mine was in there once buying some .223 and this guy walks in with an AR. The muzzle break or flash hider or somthing was messed up. The guy behind the counter takes the gun, goes to the back of the store, and all you could hear was BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM-the guy was SHOOTING IT IN THE BACK OF THE STORE! And the store isn't exactly in the middle of nowhere, it's right on a corner in central islip. Un-frekin believable.

If your looking for a good gun store on LI, go to camp-site sports in huntington. classy place, great people. they also sell fly fishing equipment. Chester's hunting & fishing in farmingville (i think) is also great.

My experience is different than yours.  I've had firearms shipped to my local FFL with out him having to make the call.  Even in the case of a company not having his licence on file (I take a preadressed stamped envelope to my local guy and he gives me a signed copy of his licence and I drop it in the mail. In every instance however, I get his verbal permission and a verbal summary of what he will charge me.  It would be stupid of me to pay for something and have it shipped to an FFL without a prior agreement on how much it will cost for me to get my firearm. Without a prior agreement, I would be at the mercy of whatever terms he decided to cook up after receiving the gun.  He might even go bannanas and tell me he wouldn't transfer it to me at any price.