i mean what's going on, EVERYBODY  is makeing one now. cadillac, bmw, porche, all the imports.

they're just full of plastic. this is why i'm going to get a career as an auto designer, i'll be bringing back the good stuff. 73-87 chev pu, dodge chargers, 79 bronco's, you can't lift any new vehicle more than 6 inches with out soem huge custom system, nothing is good offraod anymore.  

instead of "form the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip" why make make all four wheels turn at the same time. oh!?!?!? could it be?!?!? actual 4wd.?!?!?!

for those of you in the 4x4 community you know what i'm taking about....

OffRoad

...just another continuation of people's obsession with plastc-disposable-glue-on-crap. me? i'll stick with the [blue][size=6]ORIGINAL[/size=6][/blue]...




                                           [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/fattym4%2Fwhitesands%2Ejpg[/img]

hey that's at least a 97. what tires are you running, small gumbo mudder?, small swampers?

to determine if you're really old scholl in that new jeep..... auto or manual?

OffRoad

Fatty,

There's something intrinsically beautiful about that.

Nice vehicle.

Simple and reliable. I love it.

thanx guys, its a 1999, i got generic 30" muds on, because if i lift it, i void the warranty. when that runs out, i'll lift it 2 1/2" and put 33" BFGoodrich mud-terrains on. and YES, its a manual, shame on all who own auto's (unless its the sweet 16!!!)

go with an 8 inch rock ready kit, you can run 38" boggers and swap in 350, or a diesel. 6.2 non turbo, realiable. dana 60's frt and rer.

better yet, instead of swapping gm stuff into your jeep, buy and old gm. lol

seriously, i think gm and jeep should partner up and buld a vehicle together. jeep body, 60's 38 boggers, 350, 8" lift, detroit front and rear, i want to start being able to buy trail trucks right from the factory.

if you don't think anyone would buy em ask yourself, how many would buy full auto ar15's if they were suddendly leagal and fac made em.

well, monster jeeps are fun, but not real practical for my purposes. the terrain in upstate NY is super-technical, nothing like the wide trails of the west. roll-overs are a bigger problem than bottoming out (in most cases). also, i have enough trouble fitting my stock jeeps into places like garages and drive-throughs as it is! [:P] mayabe when i get a ::gasp:: car, then i'll build the dream-jeep! [beer]

Offroad, if you become an auto designer, don't forget to make the vehicles you design easy for the home mechanic to work on without having to pull the damn engine to change the spark plugs, oil filter, etc.
Btw I like automatics. Much more than revolvers or bolt acions.[:)]

If I remember correctly, they (who ever that is)
passed new bumper laws so your suv wouldn't climb over a car in case of an accident.  I was noticing how ugly some of these things are with the new front end treatment.

The automakers just make what their market studies show people want..Most people don't drive offroad hard, maintain their own vehicles, or care weither their vehicle is FRP, steel,aluminimum or cardboard as long as it's "cool" and runs well..

Most of the purchasers of SUV's are not looking for an off road vehicle. They're shopping for a surrogate personality..

Porsche was making an orv of sorts off and on since the 1930's.. Just not a lot of em..
As to Caddy, it's a dressed Yukon, just as the Lincoln Navigator is just an Expedition with more costly geegaws..BMW? Do you mean Mercedes Benz?  They have made heavy offroad trucks since the 30's..

 I'll stick with my 81 Toyota. Decent offroad performance, and it's definitely reliable.
Also it's ugly enough that if I bash it against a rock, it's no big deal..

Meplat-

Original? tehe. [;D]

[img]http://www.geocities.com/xingu.geo/4002.jpg[/img]

Mine even has caked on mud to prove its been offroad [BD]

Guys,
Let the yuppies have their plastic SUVs, I am going for EOVs- Extreme Offroad Vehicles.  Offroad, like you thoughts on Jeep and GM.

Ice

Screw the little itty bitty Jeep, give me a Unimog!

Kharn

jeeper21, need proof???

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/fattym4%2Fbaldy2%2Ejpg[/img]
12770 ft., CO

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/fattym4%2Fbaldy%2Ejpg[/img]
13684 ft., CO - you keep your mud pies, or whatever, i like to soar with the eagles!!!
[:P]

lemme jump in on this action!


bone stock '01:

[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/chiz45/Chizdescent.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/chiz45/danejeep2--modded.jpg[/img]

NICE! where are those trails??

I don't know that I would exactly call a wildly popular product with good profit margins stupid.  As to why everyone is making one, may I point out that they are wildly popular and have good profit margins?

Why would people buy such obviously inferior off-road vehicles?  I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim that it is because people actually drive on roads.  Even most "off-road" driving isn't really off-road at all, it is merely off paved roads.    Add in the fact that most people in the country live in urban and suburban areas that are literally covered with pavement and it might start to become a lot less clear what a stupid SUV is.  For me, the epitome of a stupid SUV would be a ragtop jeep all tricked out with aftermarket engine and suspension parts to make it capable of conquering Moab (or whatever other legendary off-roading spot you want).  My main use for a SUV is duck hunting.  The ducks are are a couple hours drive from my house via interstate.  I need a vehicle that is roomy so that I can sleep in it, and so it can hold my decoys.  It should be engineered for safe highway travel since a typical duck hunt involves hundreds of miles of highway driving, usually at night, and often in the rain.  It should also be as quiet and comfortable as possible to minimize driver fatigue while driving hundreds of miles at night.  Oh, 4WD is a nice option to have because there is occasionally enough mud in the parking lots, or roads, to get you stuck if you only have 2WD.  For me to buy a Jeep when I clearly need an Expedition would be pretty stupid, at least a stupid as buying an Expedition for serious off-roading.

Ultimately a stupid vehicle is one that doesn't do what the customer needs it to do.  It is possible for a vehicle to do nothing well and be almost inherently stupid.  The AMC pacer would certainly fall into that category.

weiseguy, you've never seen an Aztec have you?

You mean that thing that looks like a really ugly bread box with tiny wheels?

He hasn't seen that Hyundai thing either.
Ice

good call about the aztec. seriously everytime we drive around, or i'm walking, and i see one, i yell UGLY!!!

i'm not saying people don't need suv's at all, i'm saying they're good for 2 things: off-roading, and hauling stuff. even the classic suv (the 'burban) is sort of ok to just have, it's cool.
BUT ALL THE NEW ONES ARE CARS WITH TRUCK BODIES!!!!!!!!!!!

it's true that most offroading, is actually off pavement, well guess what, i got a 90 chev pick up, regular cab, long box, 2x4, 4.3V6 , 3 peed with low, and it's pretty good off pavement, my point is that people buy 4 wheel drive and don't use it, i have a game with my frinds where i ask sheeple when 's the last time they put there suv in 4x4? i've gotten crazy answers.

i 'm gonna say that 90% of people that own suv's don't need the 4x4.

bad weather you say??? my truck with some sand and winter tires hauls along great in any snow, ice condition. i've never had a problem. the only change i would make would be to put i locker in the rear, giving me true 2x4, not 1x4. remember 99% of 4x4's are really 2x4. don't give me the limited slip argument, unless it's a fully locking differential it's not locked.

there are 4 ways to lock it:
detroit
arb
lincoln
spool

my recommendation, buy cars. i'd take a 1997 chev impala ss with a 350 LT1 engine out of a corvette. i'd be styling, pimp master hehe.

flame on if you don't like it, i really want to hear your opinions.
great pics by the way, but every terrian i say i could have prolly done in my stocker rocker 2x4, sorry to burst your bubble.

OffRoad

Fatty:

good call on the Aztek, that is one UGLY vehicle. You guys made me laugh when i read that.

These trails are around Las Vegas, NV. the Top pic is just at the bottom of Mt. Charleston, and the bottom is in Sloan, NV.  Lots of fun, but man, LOTS of dust. My motor needs a serious dustoff with the layer of junk it's got!

I am in the same boat as you, i don't want to mod anything until after the lease/warranty is through.

fattym4, just messing with you. I always do that with people who own Wranglers. Its just a little humor about the whole wrangler vs CJ crap. Truthfully, I could only wish, at this point, that I could afford a new Jeep like that. Mine does excellent in the mountains. However, in CA, with no A/C, it really sucks as a daily driver.



Offroad, I have been saying the same thing too, down to the word.