when jail is no longer a deterrent the streets will fill with blood and anarchy...

and the sheep ignore the signs of the apocolypse...

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Prison no threat to gangsters
Most local gangs are run by prisoners behind bars, authorities say
Katherine Rosenberg December 31, 2006
When Deputy Mark Ramirez of Victorville’s Gang Unit recently stopped a known gangster and asked what he was doing, the parolee said, “just enjoying my vacation.”


It’s nothing that he hasn’t heard from lifelong felons before.


“Many start to look at prison as their home and being released is merely a vacation,” Ramirez said. “For law enforcement it’s bad because we don’t have the factor of intimidation of jail.”


That lack of perceived consequences is particularly jarring for authorities who have also noted that most local gangs are run by prisoners behind bars, and that a gang member’s status can only increase through incarceration.


In the Victor Valley, officials say, most gangs have a heirarchy that mirrors the one seen inside prisons.


“I’ve taken a hard-core gang member to jail before and the minute we walk in the doors of the jail he says to me, ‘it’s good to be home,’ ” said Sgt. Mike Blay of the Victorville station. “Sometimes they’re actually uncomfortable being out on the streets because when you’re in prison all your decisions are made for you: When to get up, when to eat, what to eat.”


But the desire to remain imprisoned may extend beyond the need for that regiment, and is often a conscious and calculated decision, Ramirez said.


He explained that everything about a gang revolves around money, the loyalty and discipline. The people calling the shots in a most local gangs are in prison, and they are the ones who control the money, where it goes and who gets it. In turn, they are also the ones directing what “enterprises” to engage in — like narcotics and weapons sales — as well as the ones saying who should be killed, Ramirez said.


To climb the ladder then, it makes sense for gangsters to go to jail for their crimes, because it will boost their reputation and their status within the gang.


“As they are in the gang longer, they start being looked up to by the up-and-comers. They start progressing and they will get away with their crimes,” Ramirez said. “But the thing that makes them look tougher is when they don’t get away with it, because that’s when they go to prison. They may be afraid and don’t want to go in, but at the same time, they realize its a status thing.”


Once in prison, felons have one of two choices, Ramirez says — make it through with a good attitude to be released sooner, or become a troublemaker by disrespecting authorities. Those who choose to cause trouble are the ones who garner the most respect when they are released.


That’s where the lifestyles of prison and gang members overlap, officials say.


In prison, there is segregation not only between the races, but between the “bad” and “good” prisoners as well. Since no one gang in the High Desert has staggering numbers, members of divisions of the same gang, like the Bloods and Crips, or gang members of the same race will work together for moneymaking purposes, Ramirez said.


“I’ve had them tell me they want to run the desert like a Level 4 yard — that’s maximum security,” Ramirez said.
Several officials have speculated that when there are enough members of any one gang, those partnerships will break down. For the time being, there are a lot of alliances and rivalries based on race, just as in prison.


Ramirez said that deputies are also tasked with trying to convince gang members to get out, but those attempts are often ineffectual.


“Once they’re to a certain point there is no getting out, which is scary, because the ones who realize that choose to become the worst of the worst,” Ramirez said.


Most authorities point to prevention as the best route, which begins when children are younger than 10.
“Parents have to be involved in stopping this. They need to educate their kids to the fact that gangs only bring two options: To prison or to the grave,” Ramirez said.

One man cells
24hr lockdown
Not tv's/phones/radio etc
No socalising

Would be a start

Why can't we just kill the fuckers?

Quoted: One man cells 24hr lockdown Not tv's/phones/radio etc No socalising Would be a start

Yep.

I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from.

Quoted: One man cells 24hr lockdown Not tv's/phones/radio etc No socalising Would be a start

That is just heartless!...

Nope, GP tents, Bologny or PBJ, in the desert. Manual labor with NO pay(public Works), guards with orders to shoot if they get outta line

Quoted: I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from.

it could be anytown,USA and its the same problem.

No.


A far better idea would be to make them do hard manual labor every waking moment.  They'll be too busy and too tired to make trouble and they WON'T want to go back to it.


There are hundreds of thousands of miles of roads that need maintenance,  from mowing the grass to picking up trash to repaving the roads,    the southern US alone has
untold millions of tons of invading foreign plants and trees that need to be laboriously
dug out and eradicated, one by one,   in the form of Kudzu and Brazilian Pepper trees,
and in general, nationwide,  there's no shortage of bitch work that needs doing and I
think that it should be the prison population that does it.

Sitting on your lazy ass in a cell,  with assured meals and a roof over your head,  plotting
the crimes you want to commit when you get out of jail,  is not what PUNISHMENT is all about.

Chain gangs weren't such a bad idea.


CJ

Quoted: No. A far better idea would be to make them do hard manual labor every waking moment.  They'll be too busy and too tired to make trouble and they WON'T want to go back to it. There are hundreds of thousands of miles of roads that need maintenance,  from mowing the grass to picking up trash to repaving the roads,    the southern US alone has untold millions of tons of invading foreign plants and trees that need to be laboriously dug out and eradicated, one by one,   in the form of Kudzu and Brazilian Pepper trees, and in general, nationwide,  there's no shortage of bitch work that needs doing and I think that it should be the prison population that does it. Sitting on your lazy ass in a cell,  with assured meals and a roof over your head,  plotting the crimes you want to commit when you get out of jail,  is not what PUNISHMENT is all about. Chain gangs weren't such a bad idea. CJ

great udea, but you needs lots of guards to watch over them and there are just not enough guards.

Quoted: I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from.

use google......quit being an ass

Quoted: Quoted: One man cells 24hr lockdown Not tv's/phones/radio etc No socalising Would be a start Yep.

dungeons.. dark dank wet.. you get convicted  they take you underground and throw you in a pit. feed em 200 to 300 calories a day, gruel, a little water.. keep em weak.. no sunlight, no exercise, nothing to do.. let em crawl around like rats in a sewer in the dark... no time off for good behaviour..

that.. and legalize drugs.. end one big place these gangs make their money...

oh... and the illegals that get caught.. send em back to their country of origin..

Quoted: great idea, but you needs lots of guards to watch over them and there are just not enough guards.

That can be handled.   Any work parties would be under the supervision of one or more
employees of private contractors.    The supervisors would be trained to handle prisoners,
and well armed,  and there would always be a sufficient number of them on hand to
be able to back each other up.    And they would be given broad authority to maintain
order in their work parties.   Including the authority to shoot to kill in order to stop
assaults or runners.    Simply deputizing the supervisors after a suitable training program
would be adequate.


CJ

Quoted: I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from.

I believe it's southern Kalifornia.

Quoted: Quoted: I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from. use google......quit being an ass

Aint gonna happen, wouldnt be prudent

Quoted: Quoted: I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from. I believe it's southern Kalifornia.

Figures it comes from the Peoples Republik Of Kalifornia.

Quoted: ...There are hundreds of thousands of miles of roads that need maintenance,  from mowing the grass to picking up trash to repaving the roads,    the southern US alone has untold millions of tons of invading foreign plants and trees that need to be laboriously dug out and eradicated, one by one,   in the form of Kudzu and Brazilian Pepper trees, and in general, nationwide,  there's no shortage of bitch work that needs doing and I think that it should be the prison population that does it....

I like this idea a lot.  Other than the cost of supervising the prisoners, I really can't find anything wrong with it.

it would be just a shame if all the prison employees went on vacation for a day and a few 2000 pound bombs dropped on all the homeys.

Quoted: Quoted: I love when people post a news story and do not include what state it is from. I believe it's southern Kalifornia.

Victorville is about 100 miles northeast of Los Angeles.  It's out in agricultural areas bordering on high desert.

Quoted: Quoted: great idea, but you needs lots of guards to watch over them and there are just not enough guards. That can be handled.   Any work parties would be under the supervision of one or more employees of private contractors.    The supervisors would be trained to handle prisoners, and well armed,  and there would always be a sufficient number of them on hand to be able to back each other up.    And they would be given broad authority to maintain order in their work parties.   Including the authority to shoot to kill in order to stop assaults or runners. CJ

I've thought about this myself.

I'm sure TASER could make a nice lockable harness that incorporates a TASER type device. One person starts screwing around, guard hits a button on his remote, and every guy in the crew hits the dirt screaming.

They screw around more than that, shoot to kill.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One man cells 24hr lockdown Not tv's/phones/radio etc No socalising Would be a start Yep. dungeons.. dark dank wet.. you get convicted  they take you underground and throw you in a pit. feed em 200 to 300 calories a day, gruel, a little water.. keep em weak.. no sunlight, no exercise, nothing to do.. let em crawl around like rats in a sewer in the dark... no time off for good behaviour.. that.. and legalize drugs.. end one big place these gangs make their money... oh... and the illegals that get caught.. send em back to their country of origin..

Screw that. They just come back. Deport their asses to Afganistan. Try that leaching off the public dime over there. Not to mention, it's tougher to sneak across an ocean than it is to walk across some desert.

Quoted: Quoted: No. A far better idea would be to make them do hard manual labor every waking moment.  They'll be too busy and too tired to make trouble and they WON'T want to go back to it. There are hundreds of thousands of miles of roads that need maintenance,  from mowing the grass to picking up trash to repaving the roads,    the southern US alone has untold millions of tons of invading foreign plants and trees that need to be laboriously dug out and eradicated, one by one,   in the form of Kudzu and Brazilian Pepper trees, and in general, nationwide,  there's no shortage of bitch work that needs doing and I think that it should be the prison population that does it. Sitting on your lazy ass in a cell,  with assured meals and a roof over your head,  plotting the crimes you want to commit when you get out of jail,  is not what PUNISHMENT is all about. Chain gangs weren't such a bad idea. CJ great udea, but you needs lots of guards to watch over them and there are just not enough guards.

Too bad chain gangs became un-PC.  God forbid they earn their keep and give back to society.  The guard issue wouldn't be that hard if they are all shackled together in groups of 8-10.  2 gaurds per group, each with a 12 guage.  Been done before, until the ACLU got involved.  The humiliation of being chained together in a prison road crew was just to much to bear.

If they like it so much in prison, why not just lock them in and turn the place into a Zoo.  That way we could go see the "animals", point and laugh at them, take pictures; I bet feeding time would be fun to watch. But then again, that would be un-PC too.  

Anybody remember the movie "The Running Man"?


The exploding collar around your neck is a very viable technology.    Such a device would be
extremely useful in making sure that your work crews don't wander too far....



CJ

My biggest suprise about prison and especially jail is how the treatment of criminals is about 10 times better than the recruits at MCRD San Diego???

run it like Basic or boot camp and I bet there would be less crime in prison and less recidivism.

Quoted: Anybody remember the movie "The Running Man"? The exploding collar around your neck is a very viable technology.    Such a device would be extremely useful in making sure that your work crews don't wander too far.... CJ

It was used to make a pizza man rob a bank.

Quoted: One man cells 24hr lockdown Not tv's/phones/radio etc No socalising Would be a start

Wont work. All stick and no carrot is just as bad as anything else. For example they actually do this in a place called "the shoe" in California. Its for the worst of the worst offenders. Eventually they get out! When you got nothing you got nothing to lose. So they would think nothing of Murdering and kidnapping and killing because after being in the shoe for 10 years they just dont care anymore and have also lost thier mind anyway. IT is also VERY unsafe for corrections officers in a purely puniative envionment. Thrown feces and urine, shanking, whatever. I mean what the point? right? No rewards means no reason to behave. And NO, avoiding a beatdown does NOT count as a reward. They have such punishments as you describe but they cannot be applied to all prisoners 24/7, only as a last resort and even then eventually  persons will get used to that. I mean think about it, is the lifestyle any different than say what ye monks in ye olden days used to live like? And they used to do it volutarily! I hate to sound like a libtard but while this kind of thing is important to those already to far gone, society really has to work on preventing poor people from ending up like this in the first place. I mean you dont hear about this kind of shit in Iceland or Japan now do you?  

Quoted: Quoted: One man cells 24hr lockdown Not tv's/phones/radio etc No socalising Would be a start Wont work. All stick and no carrot is just as bad as anything else. For example they actually do this in a place called "the shoe" in California.

Its not the shoe its the "SHU"

special housing unit

its not just in CA, and sometimes it not even for the bad guys, just for the guys who cannot hang on the main line.

Third violent felony conviction = mandatory death penalty.  Murder = mandatory death penalty.

Jail might not be a deterrent any more, but I'm pretty sure hell is.

The box.

Convict gets welded into a 7' X 3' X 3' metal box.  There are holes / vents in the bottom and top.  There is a feeding slot in the front.  Keep inserting food into the feeding slot until nothing comes out the bottom anymore.

The box is stackable.

great udea, but you needs lots of guards to watch over them and there are just not enough guards.

Just need a tamper-free radio-activated shock collar.  Violent felons get fitted with the explosive variety.

Unless we start going medieval on their asses nothing is going to change.
There will always be the problem of criminals and the problem of what to do with them.
The Constitution limits what we can do to them and I do not like the idea of changing it
even if it would help. beating them as close to death as possible with out violating tghe bill of rights is the best I can think of. Then again if they cant follow the rules like the rest of us,fuck'em.

Quoted: Quoted: No. A far better idea would be to make them do hard manual labor every waking moment.  They'll be too busy and too tired to make trouble and they WON'T want to go back to it. There are hundreds of thousands of miles of roads that need maintenance,  from mowing the grass to picking up trash to repaving the roads,    the southern US alone has untold millions of tons of invading foreign plants and trees that need to be laboriously dug out and eradicated, one by one,   in the form of Kudzu and Brazilian Pepper trees, and in general, nationwide,  there's no shortage of bitch work that needs doing and I think that it should be the prison population that does it. Sitting on your lazy ass in a cell,  with assured meals and a roof over your head,  plotting the crimes you want to commit when you get out of jail,  is not what PUNISHMENT is all about. Chain gangs weren't such a bad idea. CJ great udea, but you needs lots of guards to watch over them and there are just not enough guards.

BS

cost benefit analysis, how much money would it take to hire more guards so these loosers can be funcitonal members of society VS how much money do we fush down the toilet every year?