Bin Laden videos show lack of small arms training

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bin Laden videos show lack of small arms training

Posted: 9/18/2001 1:52:29 AM EDT

Have you seen these images of Osama bin Laden with his Kalishnikov? One in particular shows him sitting or squatting a firing a round with his AK and he looks like a person shooting a rifle for the first time. Also, he appears frail and doesn't seem like an effective warrior, or for that matter, a leader who could discipline his followers.

If the U.S. trained him to fight in Afghanistan against the Russians and he's considered a hero among his peers, it doesn't show in his demeanor or his stature.

Posted: 9/18/2001 4:34:51 AM EDT

[#1]

The squatting is called the rice patty position. Was used in NAM by the VC. its quicker to get up from, than say if you were kneeling.
c-rock

Posted: 9/18/2001 8:31:46 AM EDT

[#2]

I guess naming the shooting position is important.

Actually, it's not.

Anyway...

Posted: 9/18/2001 8:37:03 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
The squatting is called the rice patty position. Was used in NAM by the VC. its quicker to get up from, than say if you were kneeling.
c-rock

View Quote

Should someone tell him that there arent any rice patties in Afganistan???

........... naaaaaaaaaah!

Posted: 9/18/2001 8:56:33 AM EDT

[#4]

Did you also notice that every time he fires a round he jerks his head off the rifle? Hopefully all his men are trained that bad.

Posted: 9/18/2001 9:05:50 AM EDT

[#5]

I saw that too. I also noticed another guy jerking the trigger pretty hard - and an AK is already inaccurate enough! I wonder if these guys will be able to hit anything that isn't 10 feet in front of them.

Posted: 9/18/2001 9:13:17 AM EDT

[#6]

Yeah, I've seen that video.

First time he fires it, he looks like a *USSY!
Other excerpts show him better prepared after subsequent shots. No range time in his log book it appears.

I don't get the impression, that he's the great guerilla warrior that some say. Others say he never actually fought. I can believe it. He has an utter look of shock after he pulls the trigger, like Uh this hurts.

M4-AK

Posted: 9/18/2001 9:16:51 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I guess naming the shooting position is important.

Actually, it's not.

Anyway...

View Quote

I guess someone wasn't paying attention to the tatics and training fourms.

First think before you speak.

If you were going to fire on someone, don't you think being a smaller target after he wants to fire back at you is a good thing? Also, if you are going to have to boot out of a place, really quick, being on your feet is better? Or being on one knee better? Plus don't forget all of the weight on you from your equipment.

This is a actual postion. There is a name for it. I was stating facts, that is all.
c-rock

Posted: 9/18/2001 9:19:22 AM EDT

[#8]

he also points the muzzle right in to the chest of his little sandbox buddy when he's handing it back to him and neither of them cleared the gun or appeared to at least put it on safe.

Posted: 9/18/2001 10:48:32 AM EDT

[#9]

I read some interesting statistics today. Russia lost 15,000 soldiers in their 10 year war with Afghanistan.

America lost 50,000 soldiers in our 10 year war in Vietnam.

The Mujahadeen were more known for their suicide attacks than their marksmanship.

Posted: 9/18/2001 10:57:27 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I guess someone wasn't paying attention to the tatics and training fourms.

First think before you speak.

If you were going to fire on someone, don't you think being a smaller target after he wants to fire back at you is a good thing? Also, if you are going to have to boot out of a place, really quick, being on your feet is better? Or being on one knee better? Plus don't forget all of the weight on you from your equipment.

This is a actual postion. There is a name for it. I was stating facts, that is all.
c-rock

View Quote

I do agree with you that it's "an actual shooting position", I disagree with your assertion that it's superior to other shooting positions.

Try running around, getting good and tired, then doing deep knee bends. See how quickly you can return to the standing position after doing the rice patty squat. It's not easy and it's not something many people can do with a full load of gear very many times. Most people will become unbalanced and drop to one knee to regain their footing or place a hand on the ground to assist themselves in getting up again.

The kneeling position also offers better stability (balance) for FA fire.

Asian cultures adopted this position because many of their people sit like this normally due to their culture. This position has never found favor in western military training.

Posted: 9/18/2001 11:32:15 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I read some interesting statistics today. Russia lost 15,000 soldiers in their 10 year war with Afghanistan.

America lost 50,000 soldiers in our 10 year war in Vietnam.

The Mujahadeen were more known for their suicide attacks than their marksmanship.

View Quote

The Soviets rarely had more than 100,000 troops in Afganistan,, at it's peak the US had over 500,000 in Viet Nam (about 5 times the commitment than the Soviets),, so the casualty figures are pretty comparable.

Posted: 9/18/2001 11:53:19 AM EDT

[#12]

It is a legitimate firing position. I have been trained in it, and have trained others. It generally seems to be be more stable than a hasty kneel and works pretty well. Some of my older compatriot with knee problems can't do it, though. H&K teaches it. It is slow to move out of, but it is good for accuracy at intermediate ranges.

Bin Laden showed very poor executuion of it though, and showed poor training and safety.

What is up with the AK he was shooting? It had and old-style AKS-74 folding stock, an AKM muzzle brake, and apparently AK magazine. Was this a cobbled together AK? A Peshwar knock-off? Bin Laden usually appears with an AKSU-74 with a 40-rounder RPK-74 magazine. All in all, I'd say these guys are idiots when it comes to basic small arms skills. They probaly keep bayonets fixed to "make the bullets go straight" and set their elevation settings to the highest level to "make the bullets more powerful" like some African troops I heard about.

Posted: 9/18/2001 12:08:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Keerist, guys. The guys a leader, not a grunt. He doesn't need to know how to shoot. All he needs to do is know how to tell someone else to shoot. The pics are propaganda for his "troops". No more, no less.

Posted: 9/18/2001 12:14:05 PM EDT

[#14]

I just wonder how many of them think the rear sight is a throttle?

Posted: 9/18/2001 12:23:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Keerist, guys. The guys a leader, not a grunt. He doesn't need to know how to shoot. All he needs to do is know how to tell someone else to shoot. The pics are propaganda for his "troops". No more, no less.

View Quote

I agree, but I still find it hard to take a fighting force seriously if the best uniform they can come up with consists of sandals, a dress, and a scarf on their heads.

Posted: 9/18/2001 1:05:41 PM EDT

[#16]

A couple of posters knew what I meant and probably saw the video clip in question, Bin Laden shoots like he's never seen an AK before. Whether he assumes a sitting, kneeling, prone, or rice patty not the issue for me. Look at the clip that is shown on all the networks, compare it to the students and instructors you've experienced. Bin Laden doesn't look like he's familiar with the operation of the rifle.

That's all I wanted to convey, c-rock.

Posted: 9/18/2001 1:39:12 PM EDT

[#17]

Who needs small arms training when he can command thousands of fanatics to die for their holy cause?
I'm pretty sure Bush can't shoot worth a hoot. Or any of our generals for that matter. When you become a big time player, you don't need to get your hands dirty with the little stuff like shooting.

Posted: 9/18/2001 2:42:53 PM EDT

[#18]

Gee, I would have figured with all those millions, he could have afforded a rifle made for a lefty (that's how he was shooting it wasn't it?). I sorta assumed he jerked back because of the round ejecting in front of his right eye. Too bad it missed....

WWoodworth

Posted: 9/18/2001 2:49:43 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I just wonder how many of them think the rear sight is a throttle?

View Quote

I prefer them to think of it as the front site.

Posted: 9/18/2001 2:51:18 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Gee, I would have figured with all those millions, he could have afforded a rifle made for a lefty (that's how he was shooting it wasn't it?). I sorta assumed he jerked back because of the round ejecting in front of his right eye. Too bad it missed....

WWoodworth

View Quote

I'm a lefty and never had a problem. All the AKs I;ve shot eject the casing forward and to the right. And pretty far too, I might add.

AKs suck ass, by the way.

Posted: 9/18/2001 9:31:31 PM EDT

[#21]

Relax, you know all his men are C.I.A trained. They probably have U.S. ordanance to boot.
GG

Posted: 9/18/2001 9:52:03 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Who needs small arms training when he can command thousands of fanatics to die for their holy cause?
I'm pretty sure Bush can't shoot worth a hoot.

View Quote

Hey, watch it there. Bush is a Texan and a hunter. It only polite in Texas to assume that a fellow shooter is a good shot until proven otherwise. Anything else is uncivilized and rude.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bin Laden videos show lack of small arms training

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