You're right.  It is INDEED time for vicious, bloody war.  But war upon the correct enemy.  It's a tough line to draw, though.  Don't forget that villification of the enemy is a traditional and NECESSARY component of warfare.  You are right, but emotions are running high, so temper your criticism with wisdom.  We will wage war upon the correct enemy, but we CANNOT ignore that the enemy may be very cleverly amongst us all.

Yes. The make up of the American psyche is that we pull together in times of tragedy and adversity. We rise UP to take the bull by the horns and face the challenge head on, rather than melt away.

As I posted in another thread and is appropriate here also...

Bin Laden and the militant Muslim fundamentalists are to Islam what the KKK and white supremacists are to Christianity.

And caught in the middle is the other 99.9% of both religions.

All most of us want is to live our lives in peace and rear our children in a safe world.

That is what everyone everywhere wants. A difference in religion does not change that most basic of wants.

There is a small, yet vocal group of simpletons on this board. They are easy to spot. I do my best to ignore them. They are weak in every way. Bigots are cowards.

I have a general dislike of Islam and a specific hatered toward militant Arabs but please name for me one peaceful, friendly Islamic country.  Planerench out.

I have one friend that is of Arab discent. Morris the only other person that I know who is as pro RKBA and gun nut's as I am. First, you wouldn't want to start a war with this person, and second I would be right there helping him if somebody thought all Arabs should die. We should be the ardent supporter of the innocent Arab Americans as we have been the target for so many years by the ignorant masses because of our views on firearms.

Turkey.

Morocco

oooh!  two for one!  bonus.  today really is  your lucky day.

perhaps, just perhaps, if....naw.  i'm wasting my time.  hatred breeds hatred.  it also squeezes out love and compassion.  the two cannot exist together.  that is what disturbs me most about the attitudes here.  i am very angry, heck, down right MAD AS HELL, but i don't hate the people.  i hate their actions.  and i certainly don't hate a group of people just because the terrorists are a small subset of that group.

this is a general question for all those lumping members of Islam into the same group as these terrorists, how much do you really know about Islam the religion?  or are you basing all of your opinions off of what you see and hear in the media?

It would do us no good to go after people who had nothing to do with this tragedy.  Be patient, when we find out who is the brains behind this mess is, we are going to kick some butts.  Just randomly going after someone is not the answer, what would the differences between you, and the scumbags who demolished the WTC.

I'll name two.

1: Jordan
2: Saudi Arabia

God BLess Texas

Before one American life is lost from invading whatever country was involved, whatever person or peoples, we need to find out who did this. OInce we find out who did this we park a SSBN out in the nearest ocean, call CNN and have them broadcast the launch of a few SLBM's.
We teach them the meaning of terror.
We wipe them from the face of the earth, leave no surivors. We let everyone in the world know that we are not fucking around and that we will never take anyone's shit again.

Wipe them from the face of the earth, every last man, woman and child.
Let their names only be remembered in the history books.

Of course this will never happen, by next week everyone will be buying the newest Air Bin Laudin Nikes and playing World Trade Center destruction on their GameBoys.

people are looking for blood, they don't know who to take it from so now they'll take it from anyone even their neighbors. animals.

I'ts not as cut and dry to say that all Islamic people are bad.  That is the same as the lib.s saying that all gun owners are homicidal maniacs (IMHO).

In case you haven't noticed, we just got our collective asses kicked.  Maybe more than 20,000 Western dead.  There are people in that rubble from every western nation on earth.  

In EVERY Islamic country around the world, people danced in the street.  In just about every Islamic community in the Western nations, people danced in the street.

I look forward to a day that they dance because their clothing and body fat is on fire.

Don't give me any shit about how I or others react to this- how prejudiced or immature we are.  Who the fuck do you think you are to sit on some high and mighty thrown looking down and judge us?  Maybe when you find that one of your loved ones hasn't been heard from for a couple of days you might get that smirk knocked off you face.

dogbert, i understand that you may be quite upset.  but (and this is for everybody!) there is a huge freakin' difference between ANGER and HATRED.  it would seem that some members are using one to justify the other.  i believe that it's been made quite clear what will and will not be tolerated.  anger is fine.  bigotry and racism (even those little racial slurs that you all think are okay) are not.  

so please, tone down the posts.

And the true test of any relgion is that it calls evil for what it truly is. The fact that there are mullahs out there calling for the Great Satan to be destroyed, and others who smile and dance upon hearing of the deaths of thousands of 'children of the Great Satan', means that Islam better start policing its own and cleaning up its mosques and clergy from such riff-raff.

The fact that they are [b]not[/b] held to be pariahs among their own people tells me quite a bit!

Have you seen the polls taken among the West Bank Palestinians, showing that those who favor the actions of the suicide bombers in Israel at over eighty percent?[b]Over eighty percent?[/b]

I truly wonder what the polls would be on the West Bank for support for Bin Laden [u]today[/u]? We better not go there, it wouldn't be pretty!

Then there's the story how the Palestinian Authority called an AP cameraman for an interview and informed him... well, you read the story at: [url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010912/us/attacks_ap_protest_1.html[/url]

BTW, there are those who consider Saudi Arabia to be a [b]peaceful, friendly Islamic country[/b].

Well, I beg to differ. In addition to being the homeland of our friend Osama Bin Laden, they have refused to take any steps against him, permit him to come and go as he pleases, does not attempt to 'freeze' his assets in their country, and, oh, pay him somewhere between
$1,000,000.00 and $5,000,000.00 per year to 'keep the peace' with him.

Did I mention that the Saudi government also pays $10,000.00 to the family of every martyr's family upon his successful bombing of an Israeli [u]civilian[/u] target?

Eric The(ButTheyAreOtherwisePeaceful)Hun[>]:)]

I quite agree that we must distinguish between the vast majority of Islam and those who commit terrorist acts AND THOSE WHO SHELTER THEM.  (Sorry, I can't create a bold type so I have to capitalize.)

I have long thought about where to stop the military response and here is the reasoning.  Yes, most of Islam is peaceful and don't support the terrorists.  However, you can tell a tree by its fruit.  Arafat says he doesn't condone the attack on NY, but he can't control all the factions.  Syria says they can't control theirs.  Taliban says they don't have control of Osama Bin Laden.  I say too bad.  Jordan had a problem with terrorists operating from Jordan and Hussein sent in his own troops and cleaned them out.  He's proven that if you don't want terrorists based in your country it isn't that hard to stop.  Mao Tse Tung called the guerilla fish swimming in a friendly sea.  If the sea isn't friendly, they don't swim there.  So, in conclusion, I can only say that if terrorists operate from your territory, its because you let them and when we blow them back to Allah, you get to go with them!  If the citizens of Syria, the West Bank, Egypt, etc. don't want to taste our retribution, then get rid of the terrorists yourself.

For much of the Cold War, Iran was our ally. Up until the Iranian revolution in the late 70s. During most of this time, Iraq was somewhat pro-Soviet, I belive. Certainly, Iraq acquired large quatities of Soviet hardware. After Iran turned on us, we became somewhat friendly with Iraq. That enemy of my enemy thing.

The Iranians were real bastards in taking Americans hostage. I can fully understand why they wouldn't like us--we were manipulating their government--but that doesn't excuse their behavior.

We have had problems with lots of other coutries in the Middle East. Does the USS Liberty ring a bell?

Quoted:
I quite agree that we must distinguish between the vast majority of Islam and those who commit terrorist acts [b]AND THOSE WHO SHELTER THEM[/b].  

I have long thought about where to stop the military response and here is the reasoning.  Yes, most of Islam is peaceful and don't support the terrorists.  However, you can tell a tree by its fruit.  Arafat says he doesn't condone the attack on NY, but he can't control all the factions.  Syria says they can't control theirs.  Taliban says they don't have control of Osama Bin Laden.  I say too bad.  Jordan had a problem with terrorists operating from Jordan and Hussein sent in his own troops and cleaned them out.  He's proven that if you don't want terrorists based in your country it isn't that hard to stop.  Mao Tse Tung called the guerilla fish swimming in a friendly sea.  If the sea isn't friendly, they don't swim there.  So, in conclusion, I can only say that if terrorists operate from your territory, its because you let them and when we blow them back to Allah, you get to go with them!  If the citizens of Syria, the West Bank, Egypt, etc. don't want to taste our retribution, then get rid of the terrorists yourself.


DonS:
[i]I have to agree with this. I don't hate people from the Middle East, and I believe we need to try to find the true culprits. However, we don't need to restrict our response to those who were specifically behind this; we should take Osama Bin Laden out regardless of his involvment in this specific act. And we should punish the countries who enable these people to operate.

But we shouldn't go around beating up cabbies from the Middle East, or attacking anyone because of their heritage.[/i]

Danger here.  While a seemingly large number of Arabs would like to see us ground into dust, to totally eradicate them would be simply genocide.  I'm not sure I really care to live with that.  And I'm damned sure it would not make us a better society.  

Words really escape me here.  I see the same pictures on CNN that everyone else does, and I've seen and read all the supposed hatred of the Islamic people against the United States.  But until they raise a hand and cause me harm, I can't say I care to do them harm.  We live in a global community, like it or not, and there are rules.  If we want to stay top dog, then we have to take our blows quietly and then strike back with measured force [i]against the ones who struck us first[/i].  To espouse complete hatred of an entire race is understandable under the circumstances, but wholesale slaughter based on religion or politics smacks of Adolph, Mao, and Pol Pot.

God Help Us All

shooter[sniper]

Post from Big_Bear -

Wow, both the United States Government and the State of Israel have determined that the case of the USS Liberty was an accident, but there are some who insist it was deliberate!

I take it that you and DonS are two who think that the Israeli attack was on purpose, and I know that SteyrAUG and Imbroglio think the same thing.

So I'll ask you what I asked them: why?

Why would Israel attack the warship of its ally?  What was the motivation behind the crime? If that can't be established, then we can only accept the Israeli version that it was an accident in the 'fog of war.'

Just as the 'friendly fire' incidents that occurred in the Gulf War, there is no reasonable basis for believing the attack was anything other than accidental!

Eric The(SoWhat'sTheAnswer?)Hun[>]:)]

DK_Prof, you just successfully painted the majority of us with the actions of a few. Sarah Brady would be proud of you.

While a don't feel blind hatred towards them, I certainly have no problem with casting a very suspicious eye on the American Arab and Muslim communities as, unlike the Americans of Japanese descent at the onset of WWII, there are obviously elements within them that are harboring and even actively supporting terrorists. If these communities do not like be viewed in such a manner, they should be extremely pro-active in cleaning their own house of any and all who would express even the minutest of support for such acts of terror. Otherwise, they should be viewed in the same light as the vicious animals they protect.

Flame on if you wish. Maybe it will be your relative in the next target.

Tragedy brings out the worst among us!... and the best in us.  It's up to each of us.

Do you have evidence for this, Eric?  I am no fan of the Saudi's, having had two sisters live in that country as expatriates for some years, many years ago.  But I have to contradict you here:
[url]www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/binladen.profile/index.html[/url]

--- cut and paste---
He left Saudi Arabia in 1991 after feuding with the Saudi monarchy, taking an inheritance worth an estimated $250 million with him.

...

Once the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia to work for the family construction firm, the Bin Laden Group. He became involved in Saudi groups opposed to the reigning Saudi monarchy, the Fahd family.

In 1994, the Saudi government stripped him of his citizenship and froze his assets in the country.

--- end cut and paste ---

I am sure you will say that this is only a regurgitation of the Commie News Network, but please check your sources.  Else, you are providing everyone with false intel.

Don't take this the wrong way Prof but I agree with you completely.  Thank God for cooler heads.

Oh and for Planerench,

Bangladesh and Malaysia haven't been too harsh with us, or any other country I can think of lately.  Both of these are predominantly Muslim.

Eric,

I am surprised at you, why don't ask the survivors of the attack what they think.  Well maybe not, they could be right wing conspiracy buffs.
You know about the Israeli aircraft circling the ship several times before the attack, correct?  How about the patrol boats that came after the air attack torpedoing the ship, shooting any survivors on the decks.  All of this in *FULL* view of Ol' Glory.  Well I guess Israel didn't really want to hide evidence of the hundreds of Egyptian POW's they were murdering 12 miles away now were they?  Ooops I guess I just pissed in someone's "Amen" corner didn't I?

Eric, you are a very intelligent guy why don't you read this review and maybe read the book.

[url]http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2001/04/25/liberty/[/url]

rDAm

It was said SEVERAL times today by three or four different policy analysts on different stations that Bin Laden is supported at least by his father, passing the funds through his brother, and perhaps by others in Saudi Arabia.
It is also common knowledge among other states in the Middle East that Saudi "pays off" Islamic terrorist groups for protection.

I wonder how everyone here categorized Tim McVey?

I only knew him as Tim McVey - nothing else.

Peace

What Boomer said on page one.

If they don't clean their own house, we need to do it for them.

RIGHT NOW.

Special report:

It's astounding to me how some members here just don't see the irony in their moronic statements. The younger kids I can forgive to a degree. They just don't know better. But some of you guys in your thirties should know better. To the people who think we should be suspicious of Muslims in this country after this attack, I have this question: How many of you suspected your white, Christian neighbors after OKC? To go a step further, I've heard comdemnation of the specific killers after that event and after numerous convictions of racial crimes in this country -  forgot James Byrd already? - but I never heard anyone advocating keeping an eye on "rednecks". Some of you morons just don't realize that you're advocating violations of rights...the same rights that you constantly bitch are being taken from you. You crow on and on about the 2nd, you forget about the 1st. Even then, you really don't know about the 2nd. It's far, far beyond the right to buy guns. It's disgusting to me that some of you are always waiting for an opportunity to race- bait. I've said this a thousand times: If you see minorities like myself as less than human, fine, get drunk and plot my death amongst yourselves. Just keep the racist talk off this forum BECAUSE YOU ARE FUCKING UP THE CAUSE! YOU ARE GIVING THE ANTIS THE REASONS THEY NEED TO GENERALIZE ABOUT THE MAJORITY OF US! SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!! If David Duke can wear a suit under his linens, then surely you can at least wear a button-down over your wife-beaters. If you can't, then sit down at the kids table and let the adults talk. Don't make me spank you. Assholes.

Ok, back to regular programming.

i can't confirm or deny your second point, but i don't think that your first point has any bearing on what ckapsl said.  just because Bin Laden's father is funding him and happens to reside in Saudi Arabia, does NOT mean that Saudi Arabia is funding/supporting him.  it's entirely possible that Saudi Arabia has cut off all funds/citizenship to him and his father can still send him money.  

Fact:Osama BinLadin is the most popular man in Saudi Arabia.

Fact:Saudi Arabia is Shiite.

Fact:Shiites are responsible for most of the terror acts that have occured in the last 50 years(including the Iran Hostage ordeal).


Fact:Jordan is a whipped dog that even with the backing of WWII Britain could not defeat a bunch of holocaust refugees.


Fact:Almost every "Palestinian" alive today is the descendent of a Jordanian and still gets support and weapons from them.

Fact:Jordanian soldiers have shot at Israeli children while they were on field trips and have harboured "Palestinian" fugitives while they sought safe passage elsewhere.



There is ONE muslim state that is not in some way gratified by our suffering and that is Turkey.They threw all of the radicals Muslims out of thier country,normalised relations with the west and formed an alliance with Israel.They are still Muslims but they are not the primitive towel wearing fuckheads that cheer when Americans die.



sopmodm4

I find it odd that GodblessTexas feels that Jordan and Saudi Arabia are friendly Muslim nations. Considering that Jordan continued to ship supplies to Iraq during and after the gulf war. Saudi Arabia has and is still refusing any effective cooperation with the FBI and our representives concerning the the bombing that killed 28 U.S. airman. I don't need friends like that. Kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton when he was a member of the NRA.

I've read everything I could find on this subject at the USS Liberty website, which has been on my 'favorite places' list ever since I signed on with AOL!  I've read the disgruntled reports from the crew, I've read the official report from the Israelis, and the only thing I can bring myself to believe is that it was an unintentional act brought on by the 'fog of war.'

The only thing lacking in the 'accident, my ass' contingent's argument is a motive for Israel to even waste ordnance on the USS Liberty, in the midst of a war.

Consider that at the beginning of the conflict, the US Navy informed the Israelis that there were 'no American ships' within 100 miles of the Israeli/Sinai coast!  The US Navy sent orders to the USS Liberty to depart the area, but for some reason the orders were telegrammed to the Liberty's home port! The US Navy was unaware that the USS Liberty was sailing within 28 miles of the Sinai coast!

There was an Egyptian ship that was shelling the Israeli positions in the Sinai! It departed the area prior to the arrival of the Israeli Air Force!

What was the Israeli motivation for shelling the US ship? Surely, they could not be certain that deliberately attacking a naval vessel of the United States on the high seas would [u]not[/u] bring about swift and determined retribution from the Americans?

Why would they risk their incredible victory over the Arabs by daring the US Navy to enter into the war against them? Hubris? Arrogance? What?

[b]Hundreds of Egyptian POWs being murdered less than 12 miles away?[/b] If that's what this book says, then I'm certainly not going to add it to my reading list anytime soon!

Where is the evidence for these murders? Seems it's only something that Ivy League scholars and liberal Israeli professors like to think up
as ways to embarrass the (ordinarily right-wing)heroes of Israel.

Did Mr. Rabin, a hero in his own right, strike you as the sort of man that would cover up mass murders by the IDF? He would have brought court martials against the guilty officers himself!

Eric The(I'llLookAtTheBookAnyway)Hun[>]:)]

One friendy Islamic country?   hhummmm...  Idaho!

Ummmm... Saudi Arabia is Sunni Muslim, actually, the Wahabbi sect specifically.  Iranians are Shiites.

Saudi Arabia is Sunni.  Pakistan and Iran are dominated by Shiism, and Iraq is 50/50 between Sunni and Shiite (with a Sunni-controlled government).

Shiites make up only 14% of Islam, 85% are Sunni.

Here is one source for showing that the Saudis pay the families of the suicide bombers:

[b]Saudi Arabia transfers 8 million riyals to the PLO[/b] [i]Saudi Arabia-Palestine, Politics, 2/9/1999[/i]

"Saudi Arabia transferred on Monday some 8,198,513 million riyals from revenues of the people's committee in support of the Palestine Liberation Organization.

The transfer was made at the directive of Prince Salman Bin Abdul Aziz, the mayor of Riyadh, who is also chairman of the people's committee to support the Palestinian militants.

Saudi Arabia undertakes the transfer of the committee's revenues which constitute 5% of the Palestinian salaries working in Saudi Arabia in addition to donations offered to the PLO via the committee, through six payments per year (one payment every two months) to spend on the families of the Palestinian martyrs."

The story does not state that the actual amount given the martyr's family is $10,000.00 as I stated in my post above. But rest assured, I will be searching for more verification on this point.

This should do for now!  Hey, I bet you guys didn't even realize that the PLO was still alive and kicking [u]within[/u] the Palestinian Authority! I thought they went away, too!

The story is found at:[url]http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990209/1999020917.html[/url]

(Edited 'cause clapsl said I should add links![:D])

Eric The(StillThinkTheSaudisAreBlameless?)Hun[>]:)]

Ahhhh. I've finally found a thread with a few reasonable people in it.

Allow me to add one more country - Kuwait. I have spent quite a bit of time there and while I question the effectiveness of their military, I don't think they harbot any loyalty to terrorists.

While I'm at it, how about Bahrain? Heck, these guys are so westernized they even have legal alcohol sales.

I will accept that many Saudis do not like America. They have a lot of extremists in high places - friends of Bin Laden. They did, however, kick his ass out of their country.

Arabs have been fighting Arabs since before Muhammed. The whole "Arab Solidarity" thing is a myth perpetuated by anti-americans that depends on Racism both among Arabs and Westerners to polarize people and keep themselves in power. They use the same tactics that Al Sharpton, Hitler, and many others use to keep their "flock" loyal.

Collectivist thinking is sloppy thinking. I thought it was just the liberals who wanted to label everybody, to put everybody into a nice package? What is going on here among so called champions of individual rights? Do you just want individual rights if they are for Christians only?

Yes, the name "Liberty" rings a bell.  It was attacked by Israeli warplanes in 1967 due to its continued relaying of Israeli military information to Egyptian "intelligence" at the request of Chevron Oil Corp. through the state dept.  After several warnings, the Israelis took action.  If you have any gripes about self-preservation, contact your friends at Chevron.

A-men boomer,I am with you.  

Here's more from a speech by Prince Sultan Ibn Abdul Aziz, Second Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and Aviation and Inspector General, and head of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's delegation to the first periodical Arab summit held in Amman the capital of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(whew! that's his real title! the following is from a speech delivered on April 1, 2001, in Amman, in 'the Heshemite Kingdom of Jordan')

The story is found at:[url]http://www.miraserve.com/pressrev/EN01april01.htm[/url]

"So, we hope that both the Intifada fund and Al Aqsa funds will get support from all of us to enable the Palestinian brothers to preserve the Arab and Islamic identity of al Quds and arrange for the caring of the families of the Palestinian martyrs who fell in the blessed Intifada."

Hope you feel better about Saudi Arabia paying all those funds to the families of the martyrs, who might not be so willing to blow up women and children in Israel if they thought their [u]own[/u] families might be left destitute!

Eric The(NextSubject-[u]SaudiPaymentsToBinLaden[/u])Hun[>]:)]

Prince Sultan has also made it clear that he is not pro-American like his Dad and has no tolerance for our military being in his country.  Once King Fahd dies, we could become unwelcome there in a hurry.  I was there last summer when Kind Fahd was sick and the Prince said something to the effect that when he takes over the U. S. will have 72 hours to get out of his country.

Of course, he will probably be willing to keep selling oil to us.

Sorry, I couldn't resist one more post showing that the Saudis are behind money payments to the families of martyrs in the intifadah.

These are the very harsh words of a Moslem cleric decrying the blasphemous actions of both the families and parents and the Saudis for selling their own men children on martyrdom!

The following was written by Shaykh Professor Abdul Hadi Palazzi who is Secretary General of the Italian Muslim Association. Palazzi is a Sufi shaykh and an scholar of Islamic theology.

The article was written in 1999. The story is found at: [url]http://www.mideasttruth.org/Articles/condemnationofchildabuse.htm[/url]

"Muslims are being trained to be involved in 'faksha' and 'munkar',because the leaders of the P.L.O., the leaders of Hamas, the leaders of Qadariyyah and other criminal blood-traders earn their impure livelihoods by offering our children, brothers and sisters as human sacrifices (1) on the altars of their idolatrous rebellion and apostasy against Allah.

"The People of Misguidance declare 'halal' [permitted] what Allah Ta'ala [God]declared 'haram' [forbidden], thus filling their pockets with blood-stained money.

"The more children who are killed in riots, the more money these People of Misguidance receive as payments in reward from their animalistic masters, the Middle Eastern Petro Dollar Potentates, especially the woeful and evil Saudi Arabian Wahhabi dictators.

"There is a big difference between pseudo-Islamic organizations in America and pseudo-Islamic organizations in the Middle East.

"The criminals of the pseudo-Islamic organizations in America make their murderous blood money stealing our children alive and by selling them for adoption.

"The criminals of the pseudo-Islamic organizations in the Middle East make their murderous blood money by convincing deviant parents to sacrifice their children in what is really 'fitnah' [apostasy and sedition], by convincing these parents that so doing is 'jihad' [Holy War], and by lying to the parents when they tell those parents that their slain children, who in reality are slain in acts of 'fitnah' [apostasy and sedition], have really become 'shuhada' al-Islam' [Islamic martyrs]."

Back to my search now, no more deviations!

Eric The(ResearchingMyLifeAway)Hun[>]:)]

This is way too easy. My first stop was ABCNews.com and lo and behold I find the following:

Story located at:[url]http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/taliban991029.html[/url]

[b]Money From Saudi Arabia[/b]

"Osama bin Laden is reportedly is receiving millions of dollars from Saudi Arabian businessmen.
   
"USA Today reported today that U.S. intelligence officials have obtained a Saudi government audit showing recent transfers from Saudi Arabia’s largest bank to charities that serve as fronts for Bin Laden.
   
"The intelligence officials tell the newspaper the payments are “protection money,” aimed at staving off attacks on the businessmen’s properties.
   
"Saudi multimillionaire Bin Laden is reportedly estranged from his family, which runs Saudi Arabia’s largest construction company.
   
"Bin Laden has called for the overthrow of the Saudi government."

Estranged my ass! And do you think for a minute if the 'funds' paid to Bin Laden were not given by the express approval of the Saud royal family, those 'businessmen' would not be in some Saudi prison, awaiting beheading after the next day's morning prayers?

So tell me, have I proven my points, or shall I seek more documentation?

ARLady, I leave it up to you!

Eric The(CubReporter)Hun[>]:)]

I had to laugh when I read this.  Eric, you are hilarious!  You spend your whole life on this board, and deluge the rest of us with opinion, rhetoric, and carefully chosen references.  (By the way, please post links, not just quotations, so that we can read these gems in their entirety).

There is no argument that you will not take part in, no opponent that you will not conquer, and no point that you will concede.  Hats off to you!

It's your life, but be sure it doesn't pass you by while you spend your time dispensing wisdom out here.

You really need links, I'll be happy to go back and get them. I hope that you would take my word that I say it as it really is. The fear that you would find me out, otherwise, skeers me to death!

I'm just adamant about a few things. Israel is one of them. The Founding Fathers another. The Founder of Christianity is the most precious!

Ask me about my grandchildren! I'll bend your ear on that subject anytime!

Eric The(OrShakespeare,OrClass3,OrTexasLiterature)Hun[>]:)]

For those of you who keep saying that we need to only punish those involved. Thats a good way for us to repeat this tragedy in the future. The enemy learns nothing from a weak assault. When we go in slowly and gently only removing those directly involved we allow all their supporters to live on to tell their heroic stories and attack us again. We cannot begin to identify their supporters. They are numerous and violent. They teach their children to hate all of us. We need to destroy them. We need to teach them that any future action aginst us will bring down the fires of hell upon them.

We used the slow and gentle approach in vietnam and it didn't go so well. In WWII we killed our enemy without all the social restriction. We went in and drove the enemy back at ALL COSTS AND BEAT THEM INTO SUBMISSION. They need to fear and respect our power. If they don't fear us, our children will pay the price for our weakness.

Eric, I don't doubt your quoting of the article, and it is not my intention to cast doubt upon you.  But I am a scientist and my habit forces me to request the whole thing and gain the benefit of the context.

Anyway, I am going to bed.  Have fun cruising the forums!