Who's Right? NYPD issues parking ticket to a black minister.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who's Right? NYPD issues parking ticket to a black minister. (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:36:09 AM EDT

Rev's outrage at cop

Harlem cleric sez he got ticket for 'attitude'

BY RICH SCHAPIRO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

A prominent Harlem minister says he was hassled and humiliated in his neighborhood by a cop who accused him of giving police "attitude" during a dispute over a $115 parking ticket.
The police run-in with the Rev. Calvin Butts drew the attention of Mayor Bloomberg, who apologized, and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, who promised to look into the Oct. 21 incident.

Butts said he wanted the cop to come to historic Abyssinian Baptist Church to apologize - not to him, but to "the community."

"This happens to young black men all the time," Butts, 57, fumed. "If you keep letting [cops] get away with it, we'll never get anywhere in terms of police and community relations. We're going backwards instead of forwards."

"We can't allow these officers who think they're God's gifts to the world to mistreat not only black men but black women," Butts said.

The normally mild-mannered minister said he nearly went toe to toe with the cop in front of a crowd of onlookers outside a Lenox Ave. fast-food joint.

Butts said the confrontation came moments after he parked his black Cadillac sedan in front of a bus stop near Jimbo's Hamburger Palace around 6 p.m.

While his wife and granddaughter stayed in the car, the minister went into the restaurant to pick up dinner.

But before he had time to get his food, his wife knocked on the restaurant's window to alert him that cops had just pulled up.

Butts said he raced to his car and jokingly told the two officers - a Hispanic woman and a white man - "You guys didn't even let me pay for my food."

The minister moved the car to a legitimate spot, and thought the incident was over.

But as he left the car, he said he noticed the female officer was writing a ticket.

Butts was flabbergasted. He said he approached the female cop, and asked why he was being given a summons.

"Because you showed attitude," the male officer responded, according to Butts.

"I was insulted and outraged," the pastor said.

Butts said he demanded to know the male officer's name, only to get no answer.

Their words became more heated until the cop whipped out handcuffs, Butts said. Onlookers had to step in to calm the cleric down, he said.

Butts was not cuffed, but he drove away with the $115 parking ticket in hand.

In the past week, Butts has received calls from both Bloomberg and Kelly. The mayor, whom Butts endorsed last year, apologized.

"The mayor told Rev. Butts that he is sorry it happened, and he is looking into it," said Stu Loeser, a Bloomberg spokesman.

Kelly was courteous, Butts said, and promised to check into the matter.

"This is not an indictment of the New York City Police Department," Butts said. "Most of the officers are good men and women who try to do a great job. But there are a few in the department who are just terrible, and they need to be dealt with."

With Alison Gendar and Michael Saul

Originally published on November 2, 2006

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:38:39 AM EDT

[#1]

so.... he was double-parked and got a ticket, and is pissed about it??

or is he pissed he got caught double-parking by a white cop?

or is this part of the history of the white man keeping a brother down?

I don't quite understand this whole thing.... maybe I should go to harlem and apologize.

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:43:13 AM EDT

[#2]

He broke the law and he got caught.

He doesn't rate an apology.

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:49:24 AM EDT

[#3]

The reverend parked illegally and deserved his ticket,regardless of whether he moved the vehicle. He should have taken the rules into account (keep the car "stopped" or "standing" if that zone allowed it,etc).
The cop gave a stupid response that will now make trouble for him,and exposed an admittedly troubling attitude that his judgement may not be questioned,which IMO is dead wrong.
The cop's answer should have been "because you parked illegally".

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:50:40 AM EDT

[#4]

Well, at least the hispanic was there... then we'd have riots in the street, ya know?

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:51:41 AM EDT

[#5]

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:51:52 AM EDT

[#6]

Thank God it was a Hispanic female who wrote the citation and not the white male. They would have hanged him by the neck from the church steeple.

(edited to add: Grammer Nazis, a person is not HUNG by the neck until dead, a person is HANGED by the neck until dead...Look it up!)

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:52:38 AM EDT

[#7]

Uh oh, he's black. Let'em go. (sarcasm)

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:52:39 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
He broke the law and he got caught.

He doesn't rate an apology.

He sure doesn't.

But wanna place bets on whether or not they will be forced to?

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:52:58 AM EDT

[#9]

I just finished my LEO re-education class here on AR15.com. The LEO proper course of action would have been to handcuff the bad guy and shoot him. From the article the bad guy was not respectful of the LEO risking her life to protect the community.

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:54:10 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I just finished my LEO re-education class here on AR15.com. The LEO proper course of action would have been to handcuff the bad guy and shoot him. From the article the bad guy was not respectful of the LEO rising his life to protect the community.

There wasn't a dog involved in the incident.

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:54:12 AM EDT

[#11]

I've said it before but obviously the good reverend didn't hear me. Since I'm sure he's reading this I'll say it again.

Be polite to the cops, say Yes Sir and No Sir.
Don't argue with the cops or give them a hard time.
Sign your ticket and be on your way.
Argue in court if you really think you were wronged or hassled by the cops.
Obey the traffic laws next time.

WTF is so hard that some people just can't understand this?

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:56:12 AM EDT

[#12]

But as he left the car, he said he noticed the female officer was writing a ticket.

Butts was flabbergasted. He said he approached the female cop, and asked why he was being given a summons.

"Because you showed attitude," the male officer responded, according to Butts.

Idiot.

Wave if you had just been professional about it (insert glock .40 joke here) all would have been well as far as the legitimacy of the incident.

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:56:30 AM EDT

[#13]

By the way, nice of Mayor Bloomberg to suck up to the Minister with an apology -

THANKS FOR BACKING UP YOUR COPS!

We're supposed to be "The Finest" remember?

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:57:11 AM EDT

[#14]

"The normally mild-mannered minister said he nearly went toe to toe with the cop in front of a crowd of onlookers outside a Lenox Ave. fast-food joint."
i think this may have something to do with his ticket.

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:58:36 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Uh oh, he's black. Let'em go. (sarcasm)

Yes. They're "special" people ya know.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:03:08 AM EDT

[#16]

Bloomberg

Screw cop and get gratitude of lots of black voters

Screw the Rev. and get gratitude of cops.

Easy choice.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:05:36 AM EDT

[#17]

And they say black people cant be racist.....

ETA:

Harlem.....hum....interesting part of town

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:06:19 AM EDT

[#18]

In the past week, Butts has received calls from both Bloomberg and Kelly. The mayor, whom Butts endorsed last year, apologized.

"The mayor told Rev. Butts that he is sorry it happened, and he is looking into it," said Stu Loeser, a Bloomberg spokesman.

Gutless.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:08:29 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
"The normally mild-mannered minister said he nearly went toe to toe with the cop in front of a crowd of onlookers outside a Lenox Ave. fast-food joint."
i think this may have something to do with his ticket.

Probably

Much to do about nothing IMHO

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:11:42 AM EDT

[#20]

Screw him. He got a attitude, he was not parked legally, he got a ticket. WTF is the big deal?

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:11:52 AM EDT

[#21]

Cops right, racist reverend wrong.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:15:49 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
By the way, nice of Mayor Bloomberg to suck up to the Minister with an apology -

THANKS FOR BACKING UP YOUR COPS!

We're supposed to be "The Finest" remember?

He's a rich, democrat politician, only pretending to be a Republican to get more votes. Integrity is a word outside his ability to define, experience, or express.

It's the 'attitude' comment that will get the two officers in trouble. Otherwise, they would have been home free. The problem is, we don't know in what spirit it was delivered, which would make a difference. But since the 'R' card has already been played, they're fooked.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:18:07 AM EDT

[#23]

can't even get and pay a friggin parking ticket without playing a race card.

I am even fine with him being pissed. What gets me is he is demanding an apology to the "community".

Fucking nonsense is what it is.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:22:52 AM EDT

[#24]

I'd fucking quit before I apologized.

The "Attitude" is getting a little more attention these days, isn't it?

Police should go back to the days of a crack upside the head with a nightstick for mouthy "Young Urban Gentlemen".

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:25:25 AM EDT

[#25]

He's lucky they didn't tazer his ass or give him a wooden shampoo for being an asshat. Typical of so many folks who think nothing of inconvienencing others to make their own life easier. Screw 'em.

Obviously he hasn't seen Chris Rock's video on How not to get your ass kicked by the cops
Chris Rock

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:26:13 AM EDT

[#26]

BTW...

I'm WHITE...

And I know that if I get shitty with a cop, I'm going to get fucked.

If I act like a respectable person and treat the cop with respect, I may get off with a warning. I may still get the ticket, but at the very least, I'm not making things worse.

I usually have good luck with cops.

Because I know the basic rule - Don't Be A Dick!
Cops will always win at being dicks when provoked. I guarantee it.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:29:00 AM EDT

[#27]

Lemme get this straight. The Reverend parks his Caddy in the bus zone where the common people get on the bus cause they don't even have cars to drive. Then the Rev gets a ticket for breaking the law. Then the Rev wants an apology on behalf of said common folk. Yeah, right! This is just about Rev. Butts thinking he's special and getting treated like everybody else. Am I missing something??? Anything? Does anybody up there have any common sense and the courage to call this what it is? Just looking at this logically, mind you. And where is Al Sharpton on this? About time for him to be weighing in I think.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:30:24 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Am I missing something???

Yeah, let me spell it out...

White Cop, Black Victim.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:53:21 AM EDT

[#29]

Certain people are using things in the past to be special today. The rev thought he was special since he is a community leader, of a community of people who think they should be given special treatment because of things in the past. Occasionally these special minded people run into reality were everyone is expected to follow the law. The special people who have talked themselves into this special entitlement zone become angry when they are not treated as special. Being treated like everyone else makes them angry. They cope by tossing out a deck of race cards. The tossing out of race cards becomes a sport, like tossing out beads during madre grau (sp the big party in old New Orleans). If society doesn't recognize the special priveleges of these special people, then riots and violence usually occurs.

Posted: 11/2/2006 6:58:42 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
If society doesn't recognize the special priveleges of these special people, then riots and violence usually occurs.

Thats exactly what I expect will happen.

On the other hand, the "special" people may end up outnumbering the "non-special" people, relatively soon. And at that point, I predict submission will be the rule of the day.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:06:21 AM EDT

[#31]

Hey pastor:

"1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor."

Romans 13

In other words, if you parked in front of a bus stop and a police officer tickets you, admit that you were wrong, pay the fine and move on:

"13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. "

1st Peter 2

The CHRISTIAN thing to do is own up to your fault, pay the penalty, and to treat the officers with the utmost of respect.

Not to go "toe to toe" with them.

And, BTW, NEWSFLASH: A lot of young black men have bad encounters with police because a lot of young black men commit crimes.

Perhaps if you want to improve the plight of young black men in your community, you should spend less time arguing with the police and more time BEING A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR THEM.

Just a thought.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:09:53 AM EDT

[#32]

C'mon man!

He's not a pastor, he's just tax-free.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:12:12 AM EDT

[#33]

Remember the news article awhile back when a preacher got a parking ticket for improper parking at hospital when going to see a dieing patient, he ended up having to pay.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:13:05 AM EDT

[#34]

He stated "You guys didn't even let me pay for my food." He claims it was jokingly. Then, the HISPANIC FEMALE cop wrote him a ticket for his "attitude." He was understandably outraged.

Did anybody even read the article? hinking.gif

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:13:34 AM EDT

[#35]

Further, whoever wrote that article is a dork.

Butts is a Baptist minister. Christianity doesn't have "clerics".

Get it straight.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:14:33 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Remember the news article awhile back when a preacher got a parking ticket for improper parking at hospital when going to see a dieing patient, he ended up having to pay.

That would be a slightly different situation.

Emergency vs. getting your grub on....

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:16:33 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Did anybody even read the article?

Yes.

I read where someone who is SUPPOSED to be a moral example did something he knows was illegal, and then when a police officer exercised her discretion in dealing with his infraction, he got all pissed off and went "toe to toe" with two cops.

In other words, I don't believe he was "joking", and I know for a fact that he didn't do a darn thing right in the whole encounter.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:17:20 AM EDT

[#38]

NYPD is in the right. Asshat parks in front of a bus stop, he's illegally parked. Whether he's there for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.

He probably moved his car and thought he'd get off with it. Sorry man, you PARK ILLEGALLY, don't bitch when you get a ticket.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:17:48 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
He's not a pastor, he's just tax-free.

He is a pastor, and he most certainly isn't tax free.

Even preachers have to pay social security tax, income tax, sales tax, property tax, school tax, car tax, exise tax, etc.

Pastors without political connections and who can't play the race card even have to pay parking tickets.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:20:20 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
He probably moved his car and thought he'd get off with it. Sorry man, you PARK ILLEGALLY, don't bitch when you get a ticket.

And that is the key:

When you do something like park illegally, the police officer has EVERY RIGHT under the law to write you a ticket. Whether they do or not is within their discretion....And in NY parking illegally snarls the hell out of traffic and makes the buses run late. Thus you are more likely to get ticketed for that than for other offenses.

It reminds me of a college student whining because their "bitch!" of a teacher caught them cheating on a test and failed them on the test on the spot. Yeah. SHE was the one with the problem....

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:20:27 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Remember the news article awhile back when a preacher got a parking ticket for improper parking at hospital when going to see a dieing patient, he ended up having to pay.

Yeah, but he was WHITE.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:22:15 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
He stated "You guys didn't even let me pay for my food." He claims it was jokingly. Then, the HISPANIC FEMALE cop wrote him a ticket for his "attitude." He was understandably outraged.

Did anybody even read the article?

He should get a ticket either way.

Maybe SHE was joking too, eh?

"Understandably outraged" for getting caught red-handed breaking a law. Hmm.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:22:38 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember the news article awhile back when a preacher got a parking ticket for improper parking at hospital when going to see a dieing patient, he ended up having to pay.

Yeah, but he was WHITE.

Exactly

So how long before Al Sharpton gets in on this?

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:26:17 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
He's not a pastor, he's just tax-free.

He is a pastor, and he most certainly isn't tax free.

Even preachers have to pay social security tax, income tax, sales tax, property tax, school tax, car tax, exise tax, etc.

Pastors without political connections and who can't play the race card even have to pay parking tickets.

Thats not true. Churches get tax-exempt status, and when the pastor walks into CircuitCity for a new toy, merely whips out his exemption certificate and pays no tax.

Same applies for car tax, thats sales tax.
I also don't believe churches pay property tax.
I don't know about social security or income tax.

I'll conceed to "partially tax-free" because I'm not clear on all aspects.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:27:16 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Remember the news article awhile back when a preacher got a parking ticket for improper parking at hospital when going to see a dieing patient, he ended up having to pay.

Yeah, but he was WHITE.

Exactly

So how long before Al Sharpton gets in on this?

Shit, along with Jesse Jackson and Harry Belafonte? I give it six more hours.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:28:06 AM EDT

[#46]

height=8

Quoted:
"Understandably outraged" for getting caught red-handed breaking a law. Hmm. Why do I even bother?

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:28:54 AM EDT

[#47]

Damn it Wave, I read this.............

Butts said the confrontation came moments after he parked his black Cadillac sedan in front of a bus stop near Jimbo's Hamburger Palace around 6 p.m.

Then promptly spewed my screen laughing.

I mean this guys screaming racial profiling and the only thing he's missing is a Pink Hat with tassles.

What the female cop said has no bearing on the fact he was illegally parked nor does her motivation matter.

Tj

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:29:21 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Did anybody even read the article?

Yes.

I read where someone who is SUPPOSED to be a moral example did something he knows was illegal, and then when a police officer exercised her discretion in dealing with his infraction, he got all pissed off and went "toe to toe" with two cops.

In other words, I don't believe he was "joking", and I know for a fact that he didn't do a darn thing right in the whole encounter.

Blick,
John_Wayne did a better job than I did.

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:30:13 AM EDT

[#49]

Here's my first draft:

Dear Rev. Calvin Butts and community.

I am sorry I told you that I gave you a ticket because of your attitude. That was not a accurate response and I regret the choice of words. The ticket was because you broke the law and no one, including prominent ministers, are above the law. As a minister, you, above all people, should know that. Your attitude towards a police officer does, however, play into whether or not the individual's officer discretion tilts in your favor or not. In your case, it did not.

I am sorry you chose to break the law and by your attitude, you demanded justice instead of mercy. You recieved for what you asked, and I am sorry you now regret your choice. I hope that your example is not followed by the rest of the community and that is why I have included them in this apology, in the hopes they can learn from your lawlessness and chose a different path.

Sincerely,

Mr.Police Officer

Posted: 11/2/2006 7:34:38 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
He's not a pastor, he's just tax-free.

He is a pastor, and he most certainly isn't tax free.

Even preachers have to pay social security tax, income tax, sales tax, property tax, school tax, car tax, exise tax, etc.

Pastors without political connections and who can't play the race card even have to pay parking tickets.

Thats not true. Churches get tax-exempt status, and when the pastor walks into CircuitCity for a new toy, merely whips out his exemption certificate and pays no tax.

Same applies for car tax, thats sales tax.
I also don't believe churches pay property tax.
I don't know about social security or income tax.

I'll conceed to "partially tax-free" because I'm not clear on all aspects.

Well that explains why there are so many pastures, decans, and other 'clergy' members around.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who's Right? NYPD issues parking ticket to a black minister. (Page 1 of 2)

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