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Posted: 9/9/2001 11:54:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for the update, I keep seeing the ads but always forget when it starts.
It looks just like S.P.R. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 11:56:26 AM EDT
[#2]
what is it?
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Posted: 9/9/2001 12:16:47 PM EDT
[#3]
I am looking forward to it. I hope its good.
[heavy] |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 12:19:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Hell ya! I can't wait. Been looking forward to it for awhile.
1GUN, it's an HBO mini-series that takes place in WWII. It's a true story of, I think and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, Charlie Company. It's directed by Tom Hanks. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 12:42:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Easy company
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Posted: 9/9/2001 12:45:00 PM EDT
[#6]
E as in Easy Company, 506 Parachute Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. "CURRAHEE"
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Posted: 9/9/2001 1:05:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Check out the book "Band of Brothers" by Stephen Ambrose. Follows Company E 1st battalion, 506 Parachute Infantry Regiment 101st Airborne Infantry Division from it's creation to the capture of Hitlers private retreat "The Eagles Nest". Including Operation Overlord (D-day), Operation Market Garden(invasion of Holland) and the defense of Bastogne (the battle of the bulge). Another excellent work of non fiction by Ambrose.
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Posted: 9/9/2001 1:24:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Just a warning,
it has "Marky Mark" in it.[V] |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 3:10:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Actually, isn't it Donnie Wahlberg (Marky Mark's brother) that's in it?
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Posted: 9/9/2001 3:10:58 PM EDT
[#10]
It has Marky Marks brother in it, Donnie Wahlberg from the boy band New Kids on the Block.
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Posted: 9/9/2001 4:54:41 PM EDT
[#11]
10 Minutes....
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Posted: 9/9/2001 4:56:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Read the book
It's excellent |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 6:09:19 PM EDT
[#13]
What about the fact that it is produced by one of Clinton's best buddies, Spielberg?
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Posted: 9/9/2001 6:24:13 PM EDT
[#14]
And both Spielberg and the director of "The Longest Day" insisted that they keep the scenes where the GI's shoot unarmed Germans trying to surrender even though both times the GI's and Army journalists who were there said it didn't happen. The directors felt they needed to make an anti-war statement, so the GI's had to be bad guys as well.
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Posted: 9/9/2001 6:31:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: And both Spielberg and the director of "The Longest Day" insisted that they keep the scenes where the GI's shoot unarmed Germans trying to surrender even though both times the GI's and Army journalists who were there said it didn't happen. The directors felt they needed to make an anti-war statement, so the GI's had to be bad guys as well. It happened in WW2...don't know if it happened at Normandy, but it most certainly did happen in WW2 with troops of both sides. Don't kid yourself. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:28:17 PM EDT
[#16]
OK episode ONE sucked. David Schwimmer as the tough guy? Please..... fuckin homo bait.
Episode Two was better, thankfully. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:30:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Just got back from my friends because I don't get movie channels. I don't care for any of the main characters or directors, but I watched it nonetheless. I thought the second hour getting into the action was very good. Ill be watching next weekend.
David Schwimmer as the tough guy? Please..... fuckin homo bait. My thoughts exactly. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:31:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Well Miami is kicking the shit outta The Titans.
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:33:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Thoroughly enjoyed it. But, one thing continues to bother me. How can two men who truthfully I believe have such great esteem for those who have fought and died, be such Liberal, whiney, bed-wetting gun-grabbers? How, how, how???? How might the Holocaust have worked out had the Jews been armed and resisted? How can ANY man feel he is justified in calling for the disarmament of another man? And HOW can these two produce such a profound movie, which CLEARLY demonstrates the NEED for armament, yet be AGAINST armed citizenry. HOW?????
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:35:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: And both Spielberg and the director of "The Longest Day" insisted that they keep the scenes where the GI's shoot unarmed Germans trying to surrender even though both times the GI's and Army journalists who were there said it didn't happen. The directors felt they needed to make an anti-war statement, so the GI's had to be bad guys as well. It happened in WW2...don't know if it happened at Normandy, but it most certainly did happen in WW2 with troops of both sides. Don't kid yourself. No flame, how about some documentation that GI's murdered enemy soldier who had surrendered or were trying to. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:38:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Ack! Schwimmer's character said "irregardless"...When will they learn it's not a word? [>:/]
Other than that, they were pretty good. I kept expecting somebody's parachute to fail in training. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:51:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: No flame, how about some documentation that GI's murdered enemy soldier who had surrendered or were trying to. I'm pretty sure this is the kind of thing that DIDN'T get documented. But the law of probability says it probably did. I'm sure it didn't happen every day but I'm also sure it did happen. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 7:55:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Overall I enjoyed watching it. I'm a big fan of Ambrose.
Did the [b]JET CONTRAILS [/B] in the sky over the planes taking off bother anybody else? Edit that crap out of there, should have been a piece of cake in the clear blue sky. I tried overlook Schwimmer's character's use of [b]irregardless [/b] as another "vehicle" to show how stupid that character was. Brouhaha: I too kept waiting for a gratuitous chute to failure or for a "redshirt" to get toasted. Then I kept telling myself, this is supposed to be the REAL story based on the accounts of the men that were there, and the official historian... maybe they'll spare us the melodramatics. Hopefully there will not be un-developed characters showing up just to get killed. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 8:00:29 PM EDT
[#24]
I love to see those Garands and Thompsons in action.[heavy]
bricklayer |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 8:01:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Did the [b]JET CONTRAILS [/B] in the sky over the planes taking off bother anybody else? Edit that crap out of there, should have been a piece of cake in the clear blue sky. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 11:06:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Wow, it was actually pretty good. Especially part two. David Schwimmer plays a good "Captain Queeg" type character or "Prick". You really despise him even though his excessive nitpicking only serves to make Easy Company tougher. And just like Queeg, he goes one strawberry to far and looses the respect of his men.
The action was fairly intense in part two. I couldn't look away from the screen. Their tough two years of training definitely paid off. I can't wait for the next episodes. |
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Posted: 9/9/2001 11:43:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: It happened in WW2...don't know if it happened at Normandy, but it most certainly did happen in WW2 with troops of both sides. Don't kid yourself. Buddy of mine was in the gulf. Said there were 50-75 (couldn't tell for sure, they were a long way off) Iraquis walking toward them surrendering with arms raised. He then heard a gun go off behind him and a cluster shell hit right in the middle of the column. Wiped out all the Iraquis. I'm sure this type of stuff happens in all wars. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:07:16 AM EDT
[#28]
I thought it was pretty good. What is the deal with each of the planes having L4 on them in HUGE white lettering. Did the computer programmers just copy/paste the plane a few hundred times. [:D]
I was wondering why the LT was wearing a sign saying 67 written on it, until I saw him looking outside the door of the plane. 67 was written to the left of the door. I loved the attack against the 88's. It is a miracle the guy in the tree didn't get nailed from the MG42. I noticed a few other weird things last night, but can't remember them now. [:)] |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:25:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Kbaker, Texason has point, while your statement about contrails is accurate, I saw no oxygen masks on any of the paratroopers and breathing IS a little difficult at 25-30000 feet don't ya think?
Mike |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:25:43 AM EDT
[#30]
7,
I too noticed that the guy in the tree was "lucky". Also, the guys on the Browning were setting it up while the MG42 was raking their position from like 50 yards? WTF? I'm sure prisoners were shot, but it was not the norm and I thought it was particularly disengenuous the way they portrayed it. WAS THIS IN THE BOOK, OR AD LIB BY THE LIBS?!? Otherwise I really like it. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:28:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Irregardless IS a word, look it up in Webster's New World Dictionary. I won a hundred bucks off of a wisearsed English professor in college when he insisted it wasn't a word.
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:28:29 AM EDT
[#32]
(editied to state that I have not read the book, nor seen the show. This is just a caviate in general, not addressing the particular incident in the HBO program)
As far as shooting Germans that were trying to surrender, it's a documented fact. Both from confessions by GI's and on Signal Corps footage that wasn't released until recently. I've seen the footage. Three Germans waving a white flag walking towards the GIs also standing in plain view. The cameraman standing right with them. They just open up on them with their M-1 Garands and the Germans drop in that way that is too real to fake. Both US and Brit troops have also admitted to shooting snipers they captrued and anti-tank troops who would shoot a Panzerfaust (AT launcher) into a Sherman, then try to surrender. Just because they're Americans doesn't mean they aren't human. We committed war crimes during that war. It's that way on every side in every war. It's been like that for eternity, and it will be like that forever in the future. There's no excuse. It's just the facts. Ross 101st Airborne Divison (Air Assault) |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:49:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Eric the Hun: My uncle landed in second wave at Normandy and they were under orders on many occasions NO PRISONERS! I now own a very fine SS engraved all original Luger because he lost a flip of a coin and had to do the deed, which gain him first choice of SS officers stuff. He took the gun and holster. Paratroopers were under same orders on D-Day and when your surrounded to begin w/ can you blame them?
Mike |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 4:52:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Irregardless IS a word, look it up in Webster's New World Dictionary. I won a hundred bucks off of a wisearsed English professor in college when he insisted it wasn't a word. It is not a word. The dictionary lists it as slang and you should give the professor back his money. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:05:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: No flame, how about some documentation that GI's murdered enemy soldier who had surrendered or were trying to. I'm pretty sure this is the kind of thing that DIDN'T get documented. But the law of probability says it probably did. I'm sure it didn't happen every day but I'm also sure it did happen. For my $$$$, war is about killing. The MORE soldiers that die and the quicker they do die, the sooner one side will surrender, and the war will be OVER, and peace can be restored. War is hell, but can be NECESSARY, and the sooner it is over, the better. So, I don't have a problem if USGI's DID kill enemy soldiers who were "surrendering." During war, crazy things happen. And unless the enemy is sitting naked in the corner in the fetal position with a white flag of surrender sticking out his ear hole, I'm gonna shoot his arse. (pardon my potty mouth [:D] ) That said, I do dislike when people make these undocumented claims of USGI's shooting surrendering soldiers or non-combatants. In my estimation, it comes from ONLY two places - 1. Marxist America haters who would lie like a bear rug to discredit America any way they can. 2. Good people foolish enuf to parrot their undocumented claims. If ANYONE is gonna make such a claim, they are only discrediting themselves if they can't provide documentation. And if they can't provide documentation, THEY SHOULD SHUT UP, [b]EVEN IF [/b] it DID happen. Example: What if I claimed that a specific poster in this forum had murdered someone, but could provide no evidence of the crime? That would make me a POS. Is someone making undocumented claims of USGI's any less a POS, JUST because he doesn't name a specific name of a specific USGI?? I think not. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:19:02 AM EDT
[#36]
As far as the character David Schwimmer plays, the real Captain Sobel was depicted as a jerk in the book also. Schwimmer portrays the character accurately based on the description by Stephen Ambrose.
The part with the GI talking to the German from Oregon and then the shooting of the prisoners was also in the book. My dad is also a D-Day veteran of Omaha Beach (Co-B 121st Engineers, 29th Infantry Division). He came ashore at H-hour +35, sector Dog Green. As far as the GI's killing unarmed Germans, yes it happened. He has told me a story about it. He didn't condone it but he knows it happened at least once in the infantry unit he supported. It was something they didn't talk about, it just happened. As far as the scenes where they show the Germans trying to run away and getting shot in the back, sorry, but that wasn't the same thing. That was during the heat of battle and they stopped them from getting to the rear to sound the alarm or come back with re-enforcements. Those scenes are very real. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:31:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Kbaker, Texason has point, while your statement about contrails is accurate, I saw no oxygen masks on any of the paratroopers and breathing IS a little difficult at 25-30000 feet don't ya think? Mike The C-47's transporting the paratroopers didn't fly at altitudes that required oxygen. Most were dropped between 1,000 and 300 feet. The contrails depicted were most likely B-17's and B-24's on their way to pre invasion bombardments. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:36:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: Kbaker, Texason has point, while your statement about contrails is accurate, I saw no oxygen masks on any of the paratroopers and breathing IS a little difficult at 25-30000 feet don't ya think? Mike The C-47's transporting the paratroopers didn't fly at altitudes that required oxygen. Most were dropped between 1,000 and 300 feet. The contrails depicted were most likely B-17's and B-24's on their way to pre invasion bombardments. Right on, Sukebe. Alot of paratroopers DIED simply becasue their 'chutes didn't have time to open, or if they did, they STILL hit the ground like a car crash. This was done to keep the GI's from hanging in the air during the drop like a turkey shoot at the county fair. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:41:52 AM EDT
[#39]
My grandfather severed with the 4th Signal Corps during WW2.
He has told stories of shooting Germans who were trying to surrender. They would then strip the bodies of pins, weapons and other items to take back home. He also bagged a Russian near the end of the war, and kept all of the Russian medals from the body. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 5:56:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: As far as the character David Schwimmer plays, the real Captain Sobel was depicted as a jerk in the book also. Schwimmer portrays the character accurately based on the description by Stephen Ambrose. The part with the GI talking to the German from Oregon and then the shooting of the prisoners was also in the book. I have read the book and agree that Capt. Sobel was portrayed very well by Scwimmer. In the book, Capt. Sobel was depicted as an excellent Peace time commander and is given some credit for the ultimate successes of E company. He was also depicted as a failure as a leader and possessed less than adequate aptitude for leading in combat. He also used the term "irregardless" regularly, which annoyed the other officers in the company. These are very common qualities for persons in positions of leadership and command. Many don't possess the "right stuff' and are usually weeded out and relegated to less critical positions. The true warrior leaders are usually given command during war time and then replaced during peace time because they are just the opposite. Poor peace time commanders and excellent combat leaders. It is a fact that enemy soldiers were killed both while attempting to surrender and after they were captured. I have read several accounts of this in Ambrose's other books. He is taking eyewitness accounts and not making these things up (documentation?). The veterans will tell the stories but most are reluctant still to name names out of respect for dead men who did these deeds and to protect the ones who are still living. Some do name names and if you read "Citizen Soldiers" or "D-day, June 6th 1944" there are accounts of these things happening. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 6:17:50 AM EDT
[#41]
I agree Sukebe, I failed to point out that Sobel was credited with contributing to the ultimate success of the company. He was just a nit-picker and stepped on everyones toes. But he dide keep them focused on thier training. He was a good training commander but he would have been killed in combat quickly.
When the NCO's sent in thier resination letters, that sent up the red flag to the Colonel. That tactic was used in other units as well to get rid of undesirable or lesser respected officers by the troops. While it was basically a mini mutiny it also was a vote of no confidence. Like you pointed out, he was a peacetime commander, vs. a combat commander like Lt. Winters. Winters was quiet and just took Sobels garbage for the most part, but under fire or in the field he kept his wits and used his head. He also wasn't as full of himself as Sobel; like the wearing of the big leather flight jackets over the standard jump jacket. |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 6:31:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Yep, if there's anything I've learned about the actions of the United States Armed Forces during their conduct of World War II, it's just how bloodthirsty the troops were.
Shooting captured enemy soldiers was a hallmark of the American infantryman. Yes, indeed. Something has to be done to make certain that the American Public recognizes that America's conduct of the War was ever bit as atrocious as the Germans, the Japanese, and the Soviets. What's truly amazing is that there were any German solders left who made it to the p.o.w. camps! They were the lucky ones! Next, we need to remind everyone just how brutal the Polish Jews behaved during their unauthorized criminal activities connected with the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of April 19 - May 16, 1943. Lawlessness was the order of the day! Thank God for the efforts of Messrs. Hanks and Spielberg to bring this perfidy to light! You just know their hearts are in the right place and who can fault their agenda? Eric The(DoYou[u]Even[/u]KnowWhoTheEnemyIs???)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 6:50:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Yep, if there's anything I've learned about the actions of the United States Armed Forces during their conduct of World War II, it's just how bloodthirsty the troops were. Shooting captured enemy soldiers was a hallmark of the American infantryman. Yes, indeed. Something has to be done to make certain that the American Public recognizes that America's conduct of the War was ever bit as atrocious as the Germans, the Japanese, and the Soviets. What's truly amazing is that there were any German solders left who made it to the p.o.w. camps! They were the lucky ones! Next, we need to remind everyone just how brutal the Polish Jews behaved during their unauthorized criminal activities connected with the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of April 19 - May 16, 1943. Lawlessness was the order of the day! Thank God for the efforts of Messrs. Hanks and Spielberg to bring this perfidy to light! You just know their hearts are in the right place and who can fault their agenda? Eric The(DoYou[u]Even[/u]KnowWhoTheEnemyIs???)Hun[>]:)] Whatever...if you and Grandman are going to say that US troops NEVER committed ANY war crimes/atrocities, then you're living in a dream world. The fact that GIs shot prisoners, or enemy troops trying to surrender IS A DOCUMENTED FACT. The Signal Corps footage exists. You'll see it if you watch History Channel enough. Nobody uses it much because they know the public reaction winds up being the same as your's and Grandman's. See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil. The conduct of US GIs in the war was the same as it always has been in our other wars. Usually good, and rarely bad. Those bad incidents are indeed isolated and not a systemic thing which says alot for the average US fighting man. I'd venture to say the conduct of the average GI in Vietnam wasn't any different. But you can't claim it didn't happen anymore than you can compare those rare instances to the wholesale slaughter carried out by many of our enemies. Ross |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 6:54:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: My grandfather severed with the 4th Signal Corps during WW2. He has told stories of shooting Germans who were trying to surrender. They would then strip the bodies of pins, weapons and other items to take back home. [red]He also bagged a Russian near the end of the war, and kept all of the Russian medals from the body.[/red] ummm, the russians were on OUR side in that war, did your grandfather kill any americans for their medals too? |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 7:01:49 AM EDT
[#45]
(forgive me if someone already asked this, but I didnt have time to read the whole post)
Are they going to be re-playing this? I dont get my cable hooked up until tonight so I couldnt watch it. How often are the episodes on? |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 7:03:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Whatever...if you and Grandman are going to say that US troops NEVER committed ANY war crimes/atrocities, then you're living in a dream world. Dude, you gotta be like a publik skewl ejikated tipe. Did we say that??? [size=6] NO [/size=6] So why do you even bring that up??? OF COURSE it happened. Its fricken war. And I don't blame 'em a bit. The fact that GIs shot prisoners, or enemy troops trying to surrender IS A DOCUMENTED FACT. Ross OK, Boss, PRODUCE THE FLIPPIN' documentation. And "My grandfather told me about a guy who told him he saw others who did it once" IS NOT documentation. We're NOT saying it didn't happen. We're asking you to produce documentation thatt it did. If you are gonna accuse people as MURDERERS, you @&^# well better bring some PROOF to the table. OTherwise, shut yer pie hole. Beyond that, we are wondering why "some people" are SOOOO bloodthirsty to dishonor those who PROVIDED "them" THE FREEDOM TO DISHONOR THEM in this forum? |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 7:15:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Post from Ross -
The conduct of US GIs in the war was the same as it always has been in our other wars. Usually good, and rarely bad. Those bad incidents are indeed isolated and not a systemic thing which says alot for the average US fighting man. Then what's the POINT, who said that it NEVER happened? What I'm saying, and I believe you're saying as well, is that it SELDOM happened! That there was no significant shooting of captured German prisoners. That there was no American policy of encouraging the shooting of captured troops. Yet, to show that it happened, every ding dong time you make a movie, is not accidental at all. If you think it is, then I suggest that you don't believe that Hanks/Spielberg are into making political statements in their movies! If you can show the American Public that their most-likely Pollyanna view of World War II is mistaken, that their deeply held view that we were really the good guys is unwarranted, or that the typical G.I. was no more (or less)moral than the typical other guy fighting for his beliefs, then you are well on the road to inculcating into Americans that dreaded liberal philosophy of 'moral equivalency.' [b]American troops shooting captured German troops was simply NOT a problem in World War II.[/b] And the Germans didn't believe it was a problem either, now, did they?[:D] Eric The(WeWereAndAlwaysWillBe,Good)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 7:19:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Garandman, you are correct, Sir!
For all you folks who need convincing that we were fighting the Germans, repeat, the Germans and the Japanese (yes, the Japanese) in World War II, and that THEY were the ones whose conduct of the war left something to be desired, to put it mildly, please review the following website - [url]http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres.html[/url] I would suggest that you make that site one of youe 'favorite places' in order that you can withstand the onslaught of Hanks/Spielbergism in the last days. You were pulling for the Americans, weren't you? Maybe those who are diligently searching the web for a listing of all American massacres can provide us with sufficient info so that we can put together a little running talley of atrocities and see who wins! Gosh, I'm betting that the Axis wins, but after reading all of the foregoing posts, it could be really close! Eric The(WeNeedToTalkAbout[u]Gypsy[/u]WartimeAtrocities,Next)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 7:19:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Something has to be done to make certain that the American Public recognizes that America's conduct of the War was ever bit as atrocious as the Germans, the Japanese, and the Soviets. So shooting surrendering troops is just as atrocious as raping, dismembering, skinning, gassing, torturing and conducting medical experimentation? |
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Posted: 9/10/2001 7:29:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: . You'll see it if you watch History Channel enough. Ross Ahhh, yes people who get their info from TV. Is it even worth discussing with them??? Have you ever considered teh POSSIBILITY that the "footage" you are talking about is taken out of context, twisted by the Marxists to smear America's image abroad, and to turn public opinion against America fighting Marxism abroad?? Ever heard of Viet Nam???? I watch the History Channel DAILY. Never seen that footage. Ever heard of CONTEXT dude??? "Surrendering" during war time, (with bombs exploding around you, bullets flying, ankle deep in blood, the wounded screaming for their mothers, fear so bad that you wet yourself) yes, "surrendering", is a pretty abstract term. If Germans are running away, WITHOUT a gun in their hand, are they surrendering?? Will they go turn themselves in to the nearest prsion camp, or do they just wanna live to fight another day?? To KILL you at a later time. Under battle conditions, do you really have time to discover "intent" when the enemy is coming toward you? Is it possible that the enemy is approaching you with their hands raised in order to get the chance to kill you?? I'd say its not only possible, its PROBABLE. That IS what they are there for - to kill you. Will your momma feel better because you were killed by someone "surrendering" to you (or at least you thought they were) Sheesh, I gotta quit now, or I'm gonna stroke out. |
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