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Posted: 9/3/2001 12:54:57 PM EDT
[#1]
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010901/capt.999396560warrant_shootout_calc101.jpg[/img]
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Posted: 9/3/2001 12:55:52 PM EDT
[#2]
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010901/capt.999396567warrant_shootout_calc102.jpg[/img]
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Posted: 9/3/2001 12:56:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Hmmm... looks like the remains of a scoped bolt action to me, like a Remington 700 or the like.
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:02:10 PM EDT
[#4]
OK, so much for the "assault weapon" aspect of this incident.
Still waiting to see if it is a friendly fire incident. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:05:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Was the "assault weapon" definition in the 1994 law updated to include bolt actions? If the police are telling the press that this is an "assault weapon" what other lies have they been saying? Even if the press knew it wasn't an assault rifle I'm quite sure they would still label it as such. The press could check their facts but sticking the label of assault rifle out there just furthers their agenda. I doubt we will ever really know the truth about what happened here. Was he really a felon, who shot the deputy and why do law enforement agencies feel compelled to burn citizens. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:08:15 PM EDT
[#6]
I think so too.
Fuking media... a bolt action rifle... "yah ya vooo!! oh yaaa dey looka at da ASSUALT WEAPON!!! Ya nooo... yaa.. dee ASSUALTY WEAPON... we big rush with our hair ::snaps finegrs:: so we tell you ASSUALT WEAPON" I swear... that's all I hear when I read or listen to theses moronic reporters try and describe firearms. in CA they do describe what they call an "Assault Weapon". Something like Semi Auto, which the firearm in the picture was not, detachable magazine.. wrong again... pistol grip... maybe it was burnt off. I love the ATF, what is their tactical procedure? Burn down the mother fucking place! Hey my keys are locked in my car. BURN DOWN THE CAR! I can't get my mail out of my mailbox. BURN DOWN THE MAILBOX!! My jacket is in my locker and I lost the key... BURN DOWN THE LOCKER!! I bet theses guys carry a pocket torch everywhere they go. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:09:58 PM EDT
[#7]
That does look like an AR15 buttstock in the box in the 2nd pic, and in the small box it looks like springs out of 30 round AR15 mags.
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:11:55 PM EDT
[#8]
That stock doesn't look like an AR-15, unless it's aftermarket. It has a flat spot at the bottom and maybe a rubber but, so it's not a stock stock, hehehe
Yeah those magazines springs do look like 30's though. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:20:50 PM EDT
[#9]
the ATF is claiming he had a AR, AK, shotgun, 380 pistol -- no mention of a bolt action rifle, no pics of any of the evil guns he was alledged to of had.
hmmmm AR and AKs ? [b]ATF THROW DOWN GUNS?[/b] |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:24:11 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't think it's flat on the bottom, that looks like it could be a shadow. If you tilt your head to the right it vaguely looks like an AK stock. Don't think that's a rubber buttplate because that would have melted. The mags are probably aluminum. Steel mags wouldn't have melted like that.
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:30:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Why is the guy in the top picture looking down the barrel?
He needs to be more careful because holding a weapon like that may get him shot by friendly fire |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:43:52 PM EDT
[#12]
the first reports that came were the murder weapon was a 3006 bolt action rifle.
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Posted: 9/3/2001 1:52:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: the first reports that came were the murder weapon was a 3006 bolt action rifle. that's what they said "30-06 bolt action assault rifle.or better yet "30-06 bolt action sniper rifle. whatever sells the most dish soap on the evening news. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 2:09:38 PM EDT
[#14]
in a literal sence its a assault weapon but in the legal sense hell no
hell if i throw salt in your face thats a assualt weapon |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 2:13:14 PM EDT
[#15]
The fire was most likely a secondary effect of the multiple CS rounds fired into the residence.
Even a m-18 can burn down a house. Those things get pretty hot. I wouldn't want one sitting on the floor in my living room without a metal bucket handy. _FS |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 2:32:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: That does look like an AR15 buttstock in the box in the 2nd pic, and in the small box it looks like springs out of 30 round AR15 mags. Yeah, it looks like an AR receiver to me too. When I blow up that section, I can't get it cleaned up enough to tell for sure. I blew up a small section of the top img, & it's easy to ID the scoped bolt action, but the bottom img is too dirty. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 2:35:54 PM EDT
[#17]
As more becomes known, it's possible that the media might begin looking for the truth.
Blood in the water is blood in the water. The media won't care who's it is. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 3:02:30 PM EDT
[#18]
The fix is in: Beck's house was bulldozed Sunday morning.
Kharn |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 3:05:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Smaller box sticking up, looks like an AR-15 upper receiver, w/o handguards. Tough to tell from that picture. Wouldn't an AR with aluminum and plastic parts be less likely to be intact after a fire??
Yeah, the barrel is steel. I think an AR might be tougher to recognize, esp. in peices. And stuff like the hanguard might be defrormed. That "upper" looks like it might be a SBR. Don't see a front sight post tho' |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 3:18:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Smaller box sticking up, looks like an AR-15 upper receiver, w/o handguards. Tough to tell from that picture. Wouldn't an AR with aluminum and plastic parts be less likely to be intact after a fire?? The barrel would most likely be intact. I don't see a barrel in that pic. If it is an AR upper it was just that and not a complete weapon. I think the captions posted below these pics are just another case of media stupidity. The info they got from the cops was attached to a picture of something they didn't know what the hell it was. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 3:24:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Yeah, it looks like an AR receiver to me too. When I blow up that section, I can't get it cleaned up enough to tell for sure. I blew up a small section of the top img, & it's easy to ID the scoped bolt action, but the bottom img is too dirty. Do AR barrels burn up in fires? |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 3:32:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, it looks like an AR receiver to me too. When I blow up that section, I can't get it cleaned up enough to tell for sure. I blew up a small section of the top img, & it's easy to ID the scoped bolt action, but the bottom img is too dirty. Do AR barrels burn up in fires? Inside a steel mill yes, other than that no. Look at the little box, the "chunk" by the back sticking up. Looks like an AR-15 upper, the barrel is along the back of the box, partially obscured. Maybe an SBR?? |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:02:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: The fix is in: Beck's house was bulldozed Sunday morning. Kharn No shyt? They dozed the place already? No chance of the surviving family doing an investigation now. I guess you got to practice your 'Waco' moves on a small scale every once in a while just to keep your game up. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:11:31 PM EDT
[#24]
bulldozed already!? WTF!! Isn't that a crime scene now?
mike |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:27:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Do AR barrels burn up in fires? Almost all if not all of the Davidians AR15s were recovered with intact receivers with only the plastic melted of, and that wire was certainly more intense. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:50:46 PM EDT
[#26]
OLY-M4gery, I see the chunk you're talking about but try as I might, I can't see an AR15 receiver and barrel there. It just gets fuzzier when I zoom in on it. There doesn't seem to be any argument that those are AR15 mag springs though, and this guy [i]was[/i] an ex-cop so it's entirely possible he had an AR15 somewhere in the house. Whether or not he used that weapon in the shootout is not clear. Why would he go for a bolt-action .30-06 if (and that's a BIG [b]IF[/b]) he had an AR15 at his disposal?
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:54:33 PM EDT
[#27]
To be devil's advocate:
If the bolt action was used to shoot the officer, then it is an assault weapon. The definition being "a weapon used in an assault." If he used a sling-shot, then that too is now an assault weapon. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:57:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: OLY-M4gery, I see the chunk you're talking about but try as I might, I can't see an AR15 receiver and barrel there. It just gets fuzzier when I zoom in on it. There doesn't seem to be any argument that those are AR15 mag springs though, and this guy [i]was[/i] an ex-cop so it's entirely possible he had an AR15 somewhere in the house. Whether or not he used that weapon in the shootout is not clear. Why would he go for a bolt-action .30-06 if (and that's a BIG [b]IF[/b]) he had an AR15 at his disposal? He'd use the '06 for the same reason i would. will shoot through cover. I would gues he would be taking aimed shots from cover pretty secure in the fact they were not coming in. plenty of time to reload and much more punch than an ar15. mike |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 4:59:00 PM EDT
[#29]
"why use a bolt action rifle...."
If he was trying to maximize his shot effectiveness a bolt gun is a good choice. If he wanted to put down a volume of fire an AR is a good choice. He was at home he could have been moving and switching weapons as the tactical situation dictated. |
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Posted: 9/3/2001 5:07:55 PM EDT
[#30]
The press demonizes everything. It's called ratings. They just happen to have a extra hard stiffy for guns.
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Posted: 9/3/2001 5:09:46 PM EDT
[#31]
The press demonizes everything. It's called ratings. They just happen to have a extra hard stiffy for guns.
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Posted: 9/3/2001 5:23:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: He'd use the '06 for the same reason i would. will shoot through cover. I would gues he would be taking aimed shots from cover pretty secure in the fact they were not coming in. plenty of time to reload and much more punch than an ar15. mike Would he be shooting from cover? I believe all the cops were shooting at anything which looked like a house... ie shooting at every house in the neighborhood. [;)] |
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Posted: 9/4/2001 1:31:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010901/capt.999396567warrant_shootout_calc102.jpg[/img] Deleted the post by accident. NeXt the boX will read: Property of DPS Charbroiled Mitsubishi Montero? |
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Posted: 9/4/2001 1:41:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Those boXes seem to be have survived the fire.
Whoever said it was right, those charbroiled guns were brought in from the "secret room". You know, the room where the Branch Davidians weapons are kept. I second that, the fiX is in. Bulldoze a crime scene. Hey! How come the Texas School Book Depository wasn't bulldozed? |
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Posted: 9/4/2001 2:20:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: He'd use the '06 for the same reason i would. will shoot through cover. I would gues he would be taking aimed shots from cover pretty secure in the fact they were not coming in. plenty of time to reload and much more punch than an ar15. Yeah I guess that makes sense. He could have positioned himself in the corner of a room away from a window or he was moving and switching weapons like OLY-M4gery said. Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846 Those boXes seem to be have survived the fire. You're joking, right? Those are evidence boxes brought by the crime scene investigators. |
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Posted: 9/4/2001 2:22:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: He'd use the '06 for the same reason i would. will shoot through cover. I would gues he would be taking aimed shots from cover pretty secure in the fact they were not coming in. plenty of time to reload and much more punch than an ar15. Yeah I guess that makes sense. He could have positioned himself in the corner of a room away from a window or he was moving and switching weapons like OLY-M4gery said. Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846 Those boXes seem to be have survived the fire. You're joking, right? Those are evidence boxes brought by the crime scene investigators. Ya, I thought about that but I noticed the small burnt things in the long narrow box. I guess these were the same weapons the Branch Davidians utilized. |
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Posted: 9/4/2001 2:37:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Uhhh... yeah I think you're right. Must be an asbestos box. [rolleyes]
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Posted: 9/4/2001 3:06:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Uhhh... yeah I think you're right. Must be an asbestos box. [rolleyes] If you look carefully enough, the box says: Property Of Texas DPS. |
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Posted: 9/4/2001 10:27:44 PM EDT
[#39]
I need some of those boxes, they handled the fire well.
GG |
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