And if there's a problem...they make housecalls!

Some of them can even spell.

Actually, I couldn't agree more.

If you look hard enough, you'll find rogues in EVERY type of business...  Like the garbage collectors that purposely smash your trash cans, or the mechanic that shoves a screwdriver through your oil pan.  We won't even mention that cook at your local Chinese restaurant!

I'm sure the Nazis were generally polite also.  Your point?

Alchol, Tobacco, and Firearms? Sounds like the makings of a great party.(Democratic, of course!) I'll bring the chips. Anyone gonna bring the Dip? Oh, I forgot, Gore wasn't invited this year.

Ever hear of the good cop/bad cop tactic?

give credit,..where credit is due.

if they treated you with all do respect,
and they acted like human beings, then
thats a feather in their cap. And its
something that should be recognized. And
something that should be encouraged.

what the Hell do you want???

do you want them to act like assh*les just
so they can fullfil that sterotype???

Any organization that consists of hundreds, if
not thousands of members is going to have certain elements within its ranks that are attracted to tyrannical behavior and who will engage in this behavior if the conditions are right.  It will also consist of certain members who love our country and who respect our civil rights ((that includes the 2nd Amendment)).

Since the ATF is a branch of our duly elected government, that means that politicians control it.

So if civilians ((thats you and me folks)) choose to elect the likes of Hillary Clinton to occupy the highest office in the World,..what kind of "attitude" do you expect the branches of government ((ATF))to adopt while under their command.????

When Reagan was in power, the ATF went in that direction. When Clinton was elected as President ((twice)),...it went to the opposite, and the most farthest extreme of the scale that it could possibly go.

What we dont want to do is create an enviroment where members of the ATF (and other organizations) are condemned to Hell even when they are acting in the utmost, respectful ways.

Do that,

and you will create an enemy like none before.

Encourage good behavior when it happens. Condemn bad behavior when its happens and prosecute evil till your last breath.

but dont slide down the slope of paranoia to the point where you would burn somebody at the stake just because your buddy told you hes a "Witch".

Meat-Hook

Well said, Meat-Hook.

Yes, the NICS operators are always nice - and I'm nice to them too.  I still have the urge to rad them the riot act!

Tate

I'll equate BATF with the public schools.

The front line people are...well...just people. They have mortgages, and kids that need braces, and dented up Chevys like the rest of us (well, I personally wouldn't drive an American car if the alternative was walking, but you get my point)

The problem is with the elitist administrators, with their own egos stuck up their noses, depriving them of enuf oxygen for their brains to adequately function.

Seriously, they have lost ANY perspective, being caught up in their own superiority, drunk with power.

Yeah, the whole Waco fiasco was simply a move to impress the incoming Clinton Administration of the ATF's ability to persecute white, bible-thumping, tax-evading, male chauvanist, baby spanking, gun owning, and generally peaceful citizens.

They cranked up a stale case against D.K. that had been closed months before! Read the search warrant - it shows how stale the information it was based on was when it was submitted to the federal magistrate for the search & arrest warrants.

I think the cue for the attack was 'Showtime' and that says it all. It was for use in the upcoming budget hearings before Congress.

Eric The(NeverAgain!)Hun[>]:)]

Sorry, but no amount of politeness will convince me they are the Good guys. Read the Committee print of “The Right to Keep and Bear Arms”; Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary/ US. Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session, published in February 1982.
(Excerpts from pages 19-23)

“Based upon these hearings it is apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible. Although Congress adopted the Gun Control Act with the primary object of limiting access of felons and high-risk groups to firearms, the overbreadth of the law has led to neglect of precisely this area of enforcement.”

“The Bureau’s (BATF) own figures demonstrate that in recent years the percentage of its arrests devoted to felons in possession and persons knowingly selling to them have dropped from 14% down to 10% of their firearms cases.”

“Yet, subsequent to these hearings, BATF stated that 55% of its gun law prosecutions overall involve persons with no record of a felony conviction, and a third involve citizens with no prior police contact at all.
 The Subcommittee received evidence that BATF has primarily devoted its firearm enforcement efforts to the apprehension, upon technical malum prohibitum charges, of individuals who lack all criminal intent and knowledge.”

“These practices, amply documented in hearings before this Subcommittee, leave little doubt that the Bureau has disregarded rights guaranteed by the constitution and the laws of the United States.
 It has trampled upon the second amendment by chilling exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by law-abiding citizens.
 It has offended the fourth amendment by unreasonably searching and seizing property.
 It has ignored the Fifth Amendment by taking private property without just compensation and by entrapping honest citizens without regard for their right to due process of law.”

Some of you may be willing to ignore these facts and prefer not to be informed of those in Congress attempting to warn us of the corruption inside our government. I for one tend to keep a close eye on these yahoos and these comments above are not mine. They are those of people we elected. Anyone wishing a copy of the entire report (which was produced in 1982 in a paperback and no longer available) can contact me and I’ll send you a Xerox of it. Readers of “Unintended Consequences” will be familiar w/ it.

Mike

Mike -

We are in agreement. No one is saying BATF is a good thing, or even a Constitutional gov't agency. They are not.

The examples you cite we are all knowledgeable of. What we are saying is that this type of tyranny comes from the TOP, BATF officials.

What we do NOT believe is that their is some system-wide collaaboration of evil amongst the line personnel. they are just collecting a paycheck.  They are "just follwoing orders."

Which we all know is no excuse.

Yes, beekeeper, I figured it was a joke.




Okay, I give credit to all the good men and women who stand for freedom, especially those who have sacrificed their lives in the face of terrible odds in order to thwart our federal government and not just roll over and accept the abuse.  

Anyone who is impressed with how easily the NICS works really doesn't have their head on straight about what is going on.  If you're not fighting it with every ounce of your will, at least realize what a sham it is and be as uncooperative as possible.  

As far as the rank & file being different than their masters, all I can say is, like in the public schools, they are part of the problem, not part of the solution.  Ignorance of the law is no excuse.  Similarly, ignorance of one's statist tendencies is also no excuse.  It all points towards how apathetic Americans have become concerning their liberties.

[img]http://www.loganact.com/images/smiley2.JPG[/img]

When I called the office in Atlanta to ask some questions about getting a C&R FFL they were very helpfuland any questions they couldn't answer they suggested I speak with a local ATF office.
I called the local office and they were even more helpful. Answered all my questions and even gave some advise about a couple of things I hadn't thought of.
The agent I spoke with even explained a small problem that my state legislature is trying to correct about buying rifles in state with my C&R.
Now I just have to wait untill it gets here. Hopefully it won't take too long.