User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:22:25 PM EDT
[#1]
You are not alone.
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:26:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I don't know if this is the way all unions operate, but I do know I was not raised to act the way some of these older, more experienced assholes do. Are unions a relic of the past whose time has come and gone like the dinosaurs? Unions are strongly socialist, by their nature, so that makes them my enemy. Everything you have observed is very typical. They probably are not leaving as something like 65% of all union members work for the government. They help the country gallop to communism. F**k 'em all. [-!-] |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:30:26 PM EDT
[#3]
There is no gravity....unions suck.
The NEA is the most evil. |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:41:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Some are more extreme than that, some are fine. Been in a few unions, even have a journeymans card in the UAW. Some companies need 'em to keep the BS on the worker to a tolerable level, others do infact protect the unemployable. Union or not , pretty much, do your job, stay out of politics and go home. A friend filed to get a partial refund on dues because of the unions politics(donating to Gore), and got it back. Generally if you work, your always at someones mercy, who you would normally just smack, outside the gates...
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:43:40 PM EDT
[#5]
At both of the union jobs I have had I have seen exactly what you described. When I complained about the union I also experienced vandalism of my car, but I was lucky enough to see them doing it and was able to stop it before anything happened to it that I couldn't wash off.
Kyle |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:46:10 PM EDT
[#6]
unions had their time, but for the most part that time is over. The gov't has passed laws that protect workers. I worked at a grocery store that required union membership. This was a part time minimum wage (actually less than minimum after dues) job. I wasn't treated any better by management there than at my non-union pizza hut job.
These were end of high school first years of college jobs |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 3:55:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Your observations are accurate.
Unions served a purpose when companies really were out to screw their employees. Coal mines were a perfect example of this. The Tennessee Ernie Ford song "Sixteen Tons" was no hyperbole - you could work yourself to death and every day find yourself deeper in debt to the Company. However, once the Union got established its job was no longer to do what was best for the employees, its job was to accumulate power - much like Congress has become. Robert Watson, founder of IBM recognized this. He made sure his people were well compensated and cared for, and stated on more than one occasion that if they [i]ever[/i] unionized, he'd turn off the lights and close the doors. He'd go out of business first, and he meant it. You're looking at a microcosm of what happens when performance and accountability are removed from the market place. Unions are largely accountable for our lack of competitiveness in the international marketplace, and are the primary reason that so much manufacturing has moved offshore. The idea of working [i]with[/i] the company in order to do something better seems to have vanished. The unions just want to do it [b]to[/b] "the company", all the time not realizing that they're "doing it" to themselves. I don't hate the idea of unions - just what they've become. I will never join one for the reasons you just described. |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 4:40:46 PM EDT
[#8]
I used to work at a large facility running boilers & air conditioning chillers, maintaining plant equipment, maintaining facility lighting, making minor electrical repairs, etc.. I was considered an "In house" employee but we were not union.
Eventually, due to a management change and a "cheaper way of doing business", our jobs were farmed out. A contract company was brought in, our department was combined with the Ground Maintenance department, the staff was cut in half, and those of us who managed to remain employed at the facility were forced to join The Sheetmetal Workers Union. My pay remained the same but I lost company paid vacations, paid personal days, and paid sick days. In short....I got screwed. The union wasn't worth a crap in my opinion. Eventually the contractor decided he wasn't making enough money and opted to cancel the contract. A new contract company came in and I hired on with them. My pay went up about $4 an hour, we have excellent health benefits, We now get company paid vacations, sick days, personal days, floating holidays (to be used when we want them), and a couple more minor benefits. We have been working now for about 8 months without a contract (legal dispute over contract language) but we have gotten all these benefits. The contract is very close to being signed and when that happens I will have to start paying dues (we haven't paid anything yet). I have worked for a shit union and I am currently working for a damn good union. Unions are not all perfect but they are not entirely evil either. Right now.....I am mighty happy with I.U.O.E. Local 547. [img]http://www.iuoe286.org/images/iuoelogo3.GIF[/img] |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 4:45:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Throughout college, I worked at numerous summer jobs where union workers were present. From all of my experiences, all I can do is laugh when I see someone wearing a T-shirt or displaying a bumber sticker that says: "There is no substitute for union craftmanship". First of all, "union craftmanship" is an oxymoron. Secondly, guys would prepare to get ready for breaks (10 minutes), get ready for breaks (another 10 minutes), take their 15 minute break (20 minutes), and then repeat the process in reverse order before getting back to work. I got so mad one day on the construction site that I started digging the water line trench by hand because the friggin union boy couldnt get his fat ass and get in gear to climb on the back-hoe and get back to work after his "short" break. Needless to say, I was not popular around the work site because I really worked for my days pay!!! Labor unions do nothing but allow the American "worker" to learn to become lazy. No wonder American cars are losing out to foreign cars (along with a host of other goods).
JRB L1A1 |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 5:08:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Yeah, unions suck.
Back during school, I went to work for the university for a year to try to take advantage of "free tuition" (what a joke *that* was). The union was pathetic. After months of "strike! strike! kill the running-dog bourgeoisie capitalist masters!" and several hundred bucks in dues, the union got us . . . a fifteen-cent per hour raise, across the three years that the new contract would run. To put perspective on the amount, that was one-third of a month's rent for the cockroach-infested hovel I shared with two other students. It didn't even pay the union dues. And, of course, the union negotiators, who had been "preparing" for us to walk out and picket in strong solidarity, instead advised us, looking haggard and downtrodden, that this was the best we would be able to do, and to take it. What a bunch of fucking weasels. What a total waste of time, money, and effort. Unions suck. |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 5:38:33 PM EDT
[#11]
unions suck man...
growing up in WV, the UMW was a champion of coal miners, there are some good union members, but the union leadership are just hacks for losers and politicians, whoring to perpetuate their existence. |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 6:00:54 PM EDT
[#12]
and just remember, they take the members dues and use it illegally to support anti-gun candidates & tell the mindless socialist members to vote that way too.
It's not just anti-gun causes they support that go against the members core values & beliefs. The sad thing is that many of these members actually vote they way they are "told" & don't take time to really look at what a candidate stands for. Sad when people become so narrow minded or single issued. |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 6:10:23 PM EDT
[#13]
There are still some uses for unions, because there are still some sleazy owners of businesses that want all of the pie for themselves and will hire less experienced people if they can.
That said, one must remember that unions, greedy developers, and greedy stockholders are the reason the two most expensive things most people buy (houses and autos) are outrageously priced in many areas. Those union truckers and the fuel they burn add big dollars to the cost of all goods and services. The worst thing is the use of union money to support anti-gun politicians often against the wishes of the general membership. I would venture a guess that union members represent one of the largest gun owning groups in America, and if they want to keep their jobs, pay, AND gun rights, they had better get their leaders to support MODERATE, pro-gun Democrats in the primaries rather than liberals. |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 9:34:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: There are still some uses for unions, because there are still some sleazy owners of businesses that want all of the pie for themselves and will hire less experienced people if they can. Yeah, rotten bastards have the audacity to expect to make a profit/return on their investment. The nerve! That said, one must remember that unions, greedy developers, and greedy stockholders are the reason the two most expensive things most people buy (houses and autos) are outrageously priced in many areas. Right, everybody's "greedy" except the all-American Union Laborers who expect $25.00/hr. to sit on their lazy, drunk asses, knowing they can't be fired. The worst thing is the use of union money to support anti-gun politicians often against the wishes of the general membership. Yet the stupid bastards vote the same "leaders" in year after year. I would venture a guess that union members represent one of the largest gun owning groups in America, and if they want to keep their jobs, pay, AND gun rights, they had better get their leaders to support MODERATE, pro-gun Democrats in the primaries rather than liberals. Yeah, [b]BOTH[/b] of those "MODERATE, pro-gun Democrats." I'm sure they're out there somewhere. Don't forget the DemocRAT party has a plank in their platform calling for much more gun control. Them and the unions. [puke] |
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Posted: 8/28/2001 10:27:34 PM EDT
[#15]
I agree unions suck. I worked for Atari during the boom in the early 80's. We had several unions picket outside of our warehouses and manufacturing facilities saying the company was blocking a vote by the employees to join their unions. We (the employees) had never even discussed joining a union, but of course the local media had it all over the news for several days. When some of us approached the people picketing our building they said they didn't know anything about the union, that they worked for a temporary agency called Manpower (non-union by the way) and they were just paid to carry the signs. The name of the union that was trying to organize the warehouses was the Glaziers and Glass Workers.
I also had a friend that was an iron worker and belonged to one of the unions in Oakland. His motto was, "The most amount of money for the least amount of work." I think that speaks volumes about what the real union mentality is. After working in electronics I went into production management and read several time studies done by APICS (American Production and Inventory Control Society). If I recall correctly the union that had the lowest productivity was the UAW with only about 2.25 hours of work performed in an 8 hour shift. The most productive union workers were the Teamsters and only because the UPS drivers have to bust their ass every day. Having ranted against unions in large metro areas there is still a need for unions in rural areas where the primary employeer may be the only source of employement for miles. If the workers had no ability to organize they could well be forced into unreasonable conditions just to keep the only job they have a chance at getting. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 2:31:44 PM EDT
[#16]
i am a union pipefitter, third generation, and i am proud to be a highly skilled crafstsman earning a fair wage! there is lazy people in every walk of life, evrey trade, union or rat! if you dont like what you got, then quit your bitching and do something about it,go to school , start a buisness, i for one truly believe that if not for organized labor, there would be no middle class america. united association local 430 plumbers and pipefitters, tulsa oklahoma we do it right the first time!
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:01:56 PM EDT
[#17]
I have never had the pleasure of working for a union, and don't think I would unless it was absolutely necessary.
However, my father-in-law was recently promoted to one of the supervisors at one of the Petrochemical plants on the Houston Ship Channel, and he says he cannot believe some of the things the union does there. And my father-in-law is not some silver spoon type either. He came from a poor family of 8 kids and worked his way up to where he is now. He's a High School graduate and ex-Marine who got where he is strictly by his intellect and hard work. And he's never joined the union because he saw them for what they were, a bunch of power hungry failed politicians. When the plant exploded in 1986, he lost many friends, and the plant was pretty much destroyed. It took many months to rebuild, and during that time everyone was given paid leave. But my father-in-law would not stay home. He figured if they were going to pay him he had better work, and he got into the industrial emergency response and firefighting team. While he was working, the union boys stayed home. In the end, it paid off as management saw his strong work ethic and his sharp mind, and he's been promoted many times. What's interesting is that they've been able to link every safety violation to a workers failure to follow proper procedure, which in a hazardous environment can be deadly. These people are almost always union members. He writes them up and the union starts breathing down managements neck because their union brother couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. So, potentially, these nimrod union workers could cause an accident that could kill hundreds. Unions at one time had their place, but I think they've outlived their usefulness. Now they just server as a poor substitute for a good work ethic and to abdicate responsibility of their members' actions. God Bless Texas |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:12:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Worked for years on non-union oilfield pipeline jobs. We would go on a job and the unions would put a picket on us supposedly to get the contractor to go union, but they really wanted union companies to get the job. They would pull childish tricks like throwing nails out where we had to drive, go around at night and shoot our truck windows with bb guns and make anonimous theats on our families. They talked about quality of the work they did, but our lines were all tested, approved and in one piece from end to end when we finished. Screw a bunch of unions.
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:14:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Take a look at Union newsletters or magazines sometime & look at the ads. Mostly shisters urging union members to sue employer.
I've been hit by several mebers with false workcomp claims but I vigorously investigate any that don't seem to be legit. Once we put in manditory drug testing to go along with any injury, the minor ones were not reported. On the other hand I go way out of my way to prevent injuries. We spend way too much training workers & they are productive & too valuable to lose just to safe a dime on maintaince or some other issue. Most have been employed for 15+ years & I don't want to see them hurt. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:25:17 PM EDT
[#20]
I too worked for a union shop when I was in college. Teamster local 2**. We were termed "casual" workers and made half the union guys for more work! We had to pay dues and after a certain time they forced you to join. But I refused to join and got harassed by the union steward. I just ignored him. No vandalism, just little annoying things like taking forever to send help or giving me shitty trailers to unload. I finally came to a truce with the guy. I paid the dues but didn't offically have to join. Even though we got paid less, the money was damn good for a collge kid. So I paid the extortion. When deer season came around, every union guy was gone. The senior guys took vacation time and the young guys called in sick. The company knew this but couldnt do a thing. The whole warehouse was full of only college kids for a week.
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:27:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: i am a union pipefitter, third generation, and i am proud to be a highly skilled crafstsman earning a fair wage! there is lazy people in every walk of life, evrey trade, union or rat! if you dont like what you got, then quit your bitching and do something about it,go to school , start a buisness, i for one truly believe that if not for organized labor, there would be no middle class america. united association local 430 plumbers and pipefitters, tulsa oklahoma we do it right the first time! Well, I did go to school, right after I left the military, and ended up in a job in a union shop. I was under the impression that the union stood for "an honest days pay for an honest days work". I was all for that. But I was really stunned to find out that in reality it has become "just an honest days pay........and we forget what the rest was". Like I said earlier, there are those who work hard, and have a good work ethic, one of which I am sure you are, but you guys seem to be greatly outnumbered by the layabouts who will not do their fair share. I would imagine that most of those same folks probably used to have a good work ethic, which has eroded over the years as they realize they do not really have to work, and there will be no consequences when they don't. As far as believing that there would be no middle class in our country without unions, well, that is the same rhetoric I heard when I hired here, and it is the same rhetoric I hear from my illustrious co-workers, who without union protection would have been shit-canned long ago for being lazy and not staying current in the ways and means of their jobs(read that as "competence"). I can't help but think that the aforementioned "belief" is one that has been given to you by the union, not one that was developed in your own thoughts and experiences. I understand why unions formed, and agree with the principle of protecting the little guy from abusive labor practices, but unions have evolved far from that, and that is a non-debatable fact. I am just trying to figure out how they have become what they have. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:32:40 PM EDT
[#22]
I was at my local Nissan dealership last year to pick up some parts for the truck, and as I drove up I saw a bunch or young Mexicans picketing in front with signs saying "Unfair working conditions" and crap like that. So, I asked my buddy in the parts dept. what the deal was and he said they had no plans to unionize and that they had no idea who these people were. But they were instructed not to be confrontational and to just ignore them. It turns out they were hired by a temp agency to picket on behalf of a union that wanted to organize the dealership. How is it that none of the employees were out there? I guess the good thing about it as if gave employment to some illegal aliens for a few days.
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:39:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I am just trying to figure out how they have become what they have. That's easy--early on they were infiltrated by Marxists with direct ties to the USSR. Have you noticed the commie revolutions are always for the "workers?" Only later do the workers find out they have been had. The DemocRAT party has done more to destroy the middle class than anything else possibly could. We nearly have a two-tier country now--those on the dole and the ruling elite, including Hollyweird types. Really think, I mean [b]think[/b], while ignoring the union propaganda, about what has caused this. Welfare, creating a lack of responsibility for one's actions, litigation, numerous government programs which allow one to not work, yet receive sustenance. These, and many more, have created the two-tier society--and were all implemented by DemocRATs. Before the flames start about the Repubs, rest assured I'm not saying they are any better, just a little bit behind the radical leftists in the Dems. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:40:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Post from Lumpy223 -
Right now.....I am mighty happy with I.U.O.E. Local 547. In another life I used to be an attorney for all the locals in Shreveport, Louisiana. The [u]only[/u] union I didn't represent were the operating engineers. They had a state-wide local headquartered in New Orleans. It was, from what I learned about it, one of the best unions in the biz, insofar as it took care of its membership. So I'm not surprised that you're happy with that group. Eric The(TheTeamsters[u]Can[/u]BeOK,Too)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 3:53:56 PM EDT
[#25]
If employers treated their employees with respect, dignity and honesty we wouldn't need unions.
If employers paid their employees a decent wage and gave out raises based on performance instead of ass kissing we wouldn't need unions. We have 3 Michelin tire plants in my province. They have been raided by unions trying to get their foot in the door so many times the employees tried to get a court injunction to stop the raids. Apparently the employer treats them like human beings. They to this day are not unionized. I am the vice-president of our local and from personal experience can assure you that our union is very very necessary. Our employer (fed gov't) is the worst employer in Canada for treating employee's with respect,dignity and honor. Ignoring our collective agreement is an everyday occurrence. It would be nice to not need unions but that day will never come to pass. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 4:24:11 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm in a Union, I used to do the same work non-union. Sure I see a lot of bump on a logs in the union and I see lots of reasons for a union on the "Above the Line" side as well.
When I got into my union I doubled my pay the first year, I got health benefits and a retirement plan. I work in the movie business. While non-union I was offered work on "flat-rates." More than once I pointed out if we continued to work that day we would be working for less than minimum wage! Anybody hear of Rodger Corman or his company "Concord Pictures?" While working there once we overheard the Director complain " I heard they (meaning the crew) were used to working 18 hour days!" Sure, sign me up! It's been my experience that we are better off with unions than without. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 4:35:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Unions originally had a purpose.
Now they are nothing but PACS Having been on both sides I think they mostly suck now...IMHO |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 4:50:36 PM EDT
[#28]
as far as being brainwashed by a union on the topic of no middle class without them, go ahead drag up, work rat in the same craft, then tell me is the wage the same? are the benefits the same? is the retirement the same? this to is a simple fact. unions make the middle class!
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Posted: 8/29/2001 5:16:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Pipefitter-wrong Wrong WRONG!
I am middle class, as are my parents, grandparents, uncles, friends, EVERYONE I know. None are union employees. Not a single one. Zero. Far more "middle class" Americans are NOT union than are union. As far as higher wages, ALL cases of which I am aware involving someone who transitioned from non union to union in THE SAME JOB ended up with less after the union pro dem extortion came out of their check. Explain the local teamster THUGS who, after striking Pepsi because they felt management "owed" them the same retirement they thought Coke drivers were making, physically attacked "scabs" who were lined up by the THOUSAND to work at the wages the union scoffed at. Fair union tactics involve work stoppages due to skills unobtainable elsewhere, not THUGGERY and intimidation of replacement workers. I see the dregs of union louts every day, POSs who never break a sweat when they don't have to, yet quick to cry and grieve every perceived "violation" of the CBA. Spare me, unions are legalized thuggery and extortion, only permitted to remain legal because of their direct pipeline into the DEMONCRAP party. THere is NO NEED for unions in modern America. Case closed. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 5:25:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Gee,
how many of you negative guy make $30 hr??? How many have a penshun(how many can spell??). I might not love my union UAW Local 7 all the time but, like my dumb ass brother I love him and he's the only one I got. Like my man the 'fitter said, "Unions make the middle class" I live in Michigan and their's a lot of shops that aren't union and they treat thier people great. "Cause if the didn't the union would be in there. I've been in non-union places where people don't work. I think that most of your a just jelous that someone's getting a fair deal Big John Stacey |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 5:43:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Gee, how many of you negative guy make $30 hr??? How many have a penshun(how many can spell??). I might not love my union UAW Local 7 all the time but, like my dumb ass brother I love him and he's the only one I got. Like my man the 'fitter said, "Unions make the middle class" I live in Michigan and their's a lot of shops that aren't union and they treat thier people great. "Cause if the didn't the union would be in there. I've been in non-union places where people don't work. I think that most of your a just jelous that someone's getting a fair deal Big John Stacey Are you serious or is this intended to be a caricature? If you are kidding--good one! If you are serious--bwaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaa, even BETTER one!! For the record--I have only a HS diploma, make about $30.00/hr. (it fluctuates), have a pension, 401k (w/employer match first 3%), another retirement plan called MAP--just like a 401k but not tax qualified, stock options, health insurance, dental insurance, optical insurance, unlimited days off, as needed, staff support (that's secretaries), office provided, life insurance, and probably other stuff that doesn't come to mind. Best of all--no stinking union dues supporting communist candidates that undermine my beloved American way of life. I'm not trying to fight with you guys, I just live in a union town (you've all seen Decatur, Illinois on the news) and am sick to frigging death of the union b.s. Thanks for Clinton, BTW. Let's talk about guns before we end up in a fist fight. [beer] Edited because I forgot to make my main point--I make what I do as a result of working my ass off all day, every day. I forgot to mention my two bonuses--monthly, added to pay and annually. |
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Posted: 8/29/2001 6:35:55 PM EDT
[#32]
What beekeeper said. Unions are UNAMERICAN! There is too much of an attitude that people are entitled and not enough reward for merit. Thats how the USSR worked and look where it is now. There a plenty of Americans who worked their asses off and have done well without a union. How much money do you think Yokish of the UAW makes a year? I bet more than all of us on this board put together.
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Posted: 8/29/2001 6:45:53 PM EDT
[#33]
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I live right next to the motor city. Home of all things union. Like you said it is great if you have seniority, and it is not all that great to be at the bottom of the food chain. Sick with it however and you can do virtually nothing and get paid way too much for it.
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Posted: 8/30/2001 2:55:53 AM EDT
[#34]
born american-union till i die! isay it looks like we all agree to dis agree about labor.
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Posted: 8/30/2001 4:09:16 AM EDT
[#35]
I know plenty of guys who were making $10-15 hr., working non-union. They then got hooked up with the union and make $30-50 hr..
The problem is that that's it. Any entrepreneurial endevors are over. Having your own business? Being your own boss? No. The unions frown on this. They want you to keep working for the man. They want you to have the same job until you die. No thanks. If you are an individual, with no chance of making your own way, building something of your own, that you can pass on to your kids, by all means, rot in a union. |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 4:53:49 AM EDT
[#36]
[b][size=4]UNIONS=AMERICAN SOCIALISM!!![/SIZE=4][/B]
sgtar15 |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 12:23:37 PM EDT
[#37]
For the record--I have only a HS diploma, make about $30.00/hr. (it fluctuates), have a pension, 401k (w/employer match first 3%), another retirement plan called MAP--just like a 401k but not tax qualified, stock options, health insurance, dental insurance, optical insurance, unlimited days off, as needed, staff support (that's secretaries), office provided, life insurance, and probably other stuff that doesn't come to mind. Ummm..... Are they hiring? [;)] |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 12:45:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I make what I do as a result of working my ass off all day, every day. [size=4][b]AMEN!!![/size=4][/b] The [i]true[/i] american way! Not having a corrupt agency defend laziness. End of discussion. |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 1:05:15 PM EDT
[#39]
As the others have said; Unions are purely socialistid. This is supposed to be a Republic, a free country. I, or an amployer should be able to do what we want as long as it does not impose on the rights of others. If an employee does not like my benefits or work conditions they should work someplace else. Instead they form unions to force employers to do what they want. We don't need unions to weed out employers who abuse others. If this was truly a free market then if I abused my employees I would not be able to keep any and I would go out of business. The same dynamics of a free market would apply under all situations. They breed ignorance, selfishness, dependancy, and mobocracy just as all the other democratic-socialistic programs do.
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Posted: 8/30/2001 1:28:06 PM EDT
[#40]
I have absolutely no use for labor unions.
Consider this from the Ten Measures of Marxism: [b]Measure # 8. Equal liability of all to labor and the establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. [/b] The function of labor unions is to (once again) promote "class struggle" - the proletariat laborers class vs. the evil bourgeoise capitalist business owners class. Again, the intended purpose is to artificilally manufacture a class of repressed peoples who will RUN to the Marxists to free them of the tyrannical practices of the evil bourgeoise business owners who |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 2:38:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Jeez, you guys really don't like unions.
I am now, and will remain a union member until I retire. And will continue my affiliation until I die. I am a Firefighter/paramedic. Local 55. My job is very desirable because of good pay and benefits, the working conditions usually suck. If it were up to local government, I would be replaced by someone willing to do the job for half pay, minimal benefits and crappy working conditions. Just ask any employee of American Medical Response (the huge, nationwide ambulance company) about their pay, benefits and working conditions. And yes, seniority should mean something in all of our jobs. My father worked as a stevedore at the Port of Oakland. Fired when he reached his 55th birthday. The company made the decision to fire all employees who had age and/or seniority. Younger workers are cheaper and healthier. Good economic sense for the company. Disastrous for a retired 20 year Army vet with a wife and five kids. There was a class action law suit based on age discrimination , the fired workers won about 4 years after being fired. All workers were offered a chance at being rehired. My dad said no thanks (actually, I can't print what he said). Unions serve a function in this country. They have made all of our jobs safer, pay and benefits have improved greatly and workers are protected from unfair practices. And I don't mean just union jobs. Without unions we would all be well acquainted with a modern form of indentured servitude. I do, however, agree that if you draw a paycheck, you should put in a full days work, earn your pay. |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 2:50:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Forgot to add, Pipefitter, I'll buy the first round, you buy the second.
I like Coors. [;0] But Stryker, my north of the border socialist ideal spewing friend, Several things come to mind. First, "dignity and respect" can also be had in a free labor market, I have it. Insult me or cheat me, I LEAVE and go work for somebody else who will treat me the way I desire to be treated. Some type of mandated idea of "dignity and respect", not to mention fairness, makes my skin crawl. You think the employer RESPECTS somebody who knows they can't be fired? Second, union workers, at least the one's whose CBAs I've reviewed, get raises AUTOMATICALLY, not because of merit. They don't get performance reviews because there's no need to, they're getting their raise every time and it doesn't matter if the employer is unimpressed with poor performance. Unions ACTIVELY FIGHT PERFORMANCE evaluations of any kind, that's what "seniority" is all about. Lastly, I feel for you having to work for the CA gov't. If they hose you guys anything like they f'd up universal healthcare, you have my sympathies. |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 3:39:20 PM EDT
[#43]
CITADELGRAD87,
I have no experience with any other unions but, I can be fired. I am held to a higher standard than the general population. I can be disciplined or terminated for off duty occurrences. I do receive employee evaluations. I get performance evaluations (timed events) every year. I get yearly physical exams and tests as a condition of employment. Failure of any of these can, eventually, result in termination. But, yes, we are given every opportunity to pass. Older, experienced employees are valuable, not a hindrance. Our union agreed to these conditions. Most of the people I work with have a strong work ethic and want to do a good job. Those that don't want to work, promote. |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 4:04:42 PM EDT
[#44]
citadelgrad87 i appreciate the offer, im a bud man myself but a cold coors never hurt me!
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Posted: 8/30/2001 4:38:27 PM EDT
[#45]
OH MY GOODNESS!!!!! YOU GUYS A RIGHT. AMERICA IS GOING TO BECOME A COMMUNIST CONTRY BECAUSE OF TRADE UNIONS!!!!
I don't know where you work, I work hard all day. I'm not saying some guys get over but, overall I got have to say that I'm proud of my Union and I support most(allmost most) of what they stand for. BTW at my local support for politcal candidates was volentary(sic). Aren't Bushmaster, Armilite, and Oly Arms union shops??? The USA is what is today because people have decent jobs. Have any of you been to Mexico, the Philippens(can you spell it right?) or China. With out unions that's what we would be. Given a choice I'd rather live the the "Socailist" Germans, Brits,Swiss or even the evil Canadians. Than any of those 3rd world places. |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 4:52:32 PM EDT
[#46]
On a positive note: Unions provide jobs for those who can't, or won't work.
Eddie |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 5:04:43 PM EDT
[#47]
I guess i am in the minority in that i have been a union man all my life and don't regret a moment of it. the union paid for my training and got me every job i ever had. the thing is though once i was hired it was up to me to keep it. as a heavy construction electrican i can assure you that i earned every penny. and i have the callusus and scars to prove it. i can also tell you that over the years my local has organized a lot of non union shops and all of those new members have repeatedly said it was the best thing to happen to them. i worked for one former non union contractor who said the same thing. i know that there are some corrupt unions like anything else but i think on ballance there are more good than bad. and i believe that all of you who enjoy a good non union job do so because your employer is afraid that if he doesn't treat you well you will join a union. my wife works in a place where the union is optional and so she and her fellow workers don't belong (despite my lectures)but as soon as something happens that they don't like they are on the phone to the shop steward. also i do not vote the way the union tells me to nor do i vote the way the nra tells me to.
I AM A PROUD MEMBER OF INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS LOCAL 269 |
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Posted: 8/30/2001 9:45:59 PM EDT
[#48]
I don't particularly like labor unions, but I don't have a problem with them either.
I do have a problem with requiring everyone employee to be a member. You ought to be able to opt out of the system if you want to as you can in States with a Right to Work law. Oklahoma has a vote coming up regarding Right to Work after a very long battle to get it on the ballot for a vote of the people. You should see what the Labor Unions are doing to try and save their jobs, it is pathetic to watch. For if it passes, membership will surely drop as people begin to opt out of the system. It is not American to force people to join a collective bargaining group against their will, just because the work at the XYX Factory. [size=6]B[/size=6] |
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