my sister flew in from LA last week for a visit. she brought me a gift. one of those 12in. dolls- a swat cop, with cleveland pd patches and a short benelli like mine. she thought i would like it, and she was right, it's kinda cool.

anyway, she had it in her carry-on (so it wouldn't be destroyed when they hurled her luggage on the plane) and they stopped her at the x-ray and made her CHECK IT. they wouldn't let her board the plane with it. if i know my sister, that plane was about to depart too.

A TOY!

they told her that if it had ANYTHING to do with guns, you can't take it on the plane. the little glock is about as big as your thumbnail! rediculous! what's she gonna do? stick it in the flight attendants ear and demand a flight to cuba?

at first i thought she was pulling my leg. but she and her fiance swear it's true! i'm supposed to trust THESE people with my life? man, are we in trouble when they start encountering REAL terrorists- instead of a foot tall gi joe doll for christ sake!

btw, in another thread, i told of how the same folks stopped me because of a book with pictures of ammunition and explosives in it. they did let me board with that though.
ah, the illusion of security...

I was seeing a friend off to the navy at Phoenix Metro.. he walked through the metal detector, and of course it squalled..

He had one of those credit card survival tools..You know with a knife about 1 1/2" long?
They would'nt let him pass with it.. But me, and my Gerber Multi? No problem.. I mean, me being an A&P what's the worst I could do? Unbolt the wings? Let's not even consider the SERRATED blade. I might actually be able to cut the food served me!

I ended up mailing the harmless piece of plastic to him.. Every chance I get now, I carry my old GI mechanic's bag, stuffed with tools, JUST to give the security people something to look at on the X-ray..

I haven't been delayed yet..

Meplat

Massad Ayoob makes a funny point. Airport security makes you check your 3" serated folder, then sit you in first class, serve you a steak and hand you a fixed 4" serated blade knife.

ive passed through LAX security with a swiss army knife on my carry on, while i was nearly strip searched after my boots tripped the metal detector. the lady asked if i had a knife in my carry on, i pulled it out showed her and she let me go on.
those security people make minimum wage, and what one person does someone else might not.

they were probably afraid some idiot passenger would see the toy and yell ...GUN!!!, which would cause them to unload the plane and passengers and other bullsh*t

when my cousin was a kid playing with his cap gun, his mom took it away and put it in her purse, forgetting about it and later on going through the airport security caused a few problems. nowadays she would probably be arrested.

just put the credit card tool thing in your wallet and it will pass through, since they wont search it.

It's been about a year, but the last time I went through the detectors at O'hare, I put my buck stockman, the large one, on the tray and nobody batted an eye.

I had a problem once at the Burbank airport that I can't even talk about it makes me so furious to think about it.
A total nightmare that ended up with my backpack on fire in the airport. ON FIRE.

Idiots.

3 years ago, I was flying from Dallas/Fort Worth to LA International, I was carrying a real indian arrow for my son's civic class, and the air line made me check it in.  The box weighed more than the arrow.  I sometimes question do these people really know what to do if someone had some real dastardly deed in mind.

yeah, pocket knives and cap guns, but a fricken gi joe doll...

it was a cop doll. aren't cops supposed to be the only people we can trust with guns anyway?

tease. do tell.

FLAMING BACKPACK STORY!FLAMING BACKPACK STORY!FLAMING PACKPACK STORY!please?

I remember reading a news article not too long ago.  About airport security and that most of them had not been trained on the x-ray, to spot weapons in carry on bags.  

Some thing to think about, next time you are on a plane.  These are the people that are to keep the plane safe.

now that i think about it, back in the 80's, my dad did a lot of traveling. i used to get stuck picking him up at the airport. with my leather covered in pins and chains, a belt of spent m60 blanks around my waist and engineer boots with lotsa metal on 'em. those were the days...

I'm guessing America West or SouthWest. DHL here.

13 years ago I was leaving Oakland International for Washington D.C. and the bastards confiscated my cheap 35mm camera so they could open it up to make sure that it wasn't smuggling anything aboard. Bastards...I was only 9 years old. My mom raised hell though cause it scared the shit out of me.

Alex

The last time I left SFO (and it will be the last time I leave there because I'm not going back!), the security guard kept two of my keys and my belt because they were ... get this ... ferric!  Airport security made everyone passing through the checkpoint empty their pockets.  They tested everything with a magnet to see if the magnet was attracted to it.  A poor kid in front of me was balling because security kept his new laser pointer.  I saw security throw-away a bunch of small pocket knives, a few money clips, several belts, a pocket watch, and a pair of nail clippers.  One woman wasn't allowed to pass, because the decorations on her blouse were metal and attracted the magnet.  They wouldn't let a Charlotte, NC cop pass through with his badge he had in his pocket.  He had to go back and check it.  I saw a couple of guys with ferric belt buckles have trouble keeping their pants-up after their belts were confiscated.  The security guards got a good laugh at that.  Thankfully, I was wearing a pair of pants tight enough to stay-up when they took mine.  The strange thing was that they let people pass through with wristwatches, but they wouldn't let one guy take his pocketwatch through.  They also let a guy with a metal buckle on his hat, that attracted the magnet, keep it.  Why a hat, but not a belt?  While they frisked us to make sure we completely emptied our pockets, they didn't look in pocketbooks, briefcases, or carry-on bags.  Why were they only afraid of items on a person?  They tested every electronic item (several PDA's, laptops, CD players, and many cellphones) to make sure that they worked before letting them through.  On guy with a cellphone with a dead battery wasn't let through because he couldn't show that it worked.  I hadn't seen that sort of checking since I went through customs in South Africa.  I was lucky the two keys they wouldn't let me take on the plane weren't my key to my car or house, or I wouldn't have been able to drive home or get into my house.  Instead, they were two very expensive armoured car door keys that I got chewed-out for giving-up.  It took me about 90 minutes to get through security to the gate, but that was ok, because the flight had been delayed because many others were that late or later.  This was after the almost hour delay at the rental car return parking garage because a Daewoo caught fire on the entrance ramp to the floor with the rental cars.  I still have no clue as to why they were afraid of ferric objects.  Any ideas?

The reason for all of this harassment?  It was the anniversary of Harvey Milk's death, and they were expecting trouble.  What kind of trouble involves only objects w/ iron in them?  If someone can explain that to me, then I would greatly appreciate it.  I've lost sleep over trying to figure that out!

This further highlights why airline travel is (hopefully) on the wane among us.  I have two primary reasons to drive instead of fly...

1) I'm 6'3", 250#.  36/32, 19-1/2/36.  I DO NOT fit in those damn seats!

2) I set off metal detectors.  I have no pins, screws, plates, or other surgical detritus (more by miracle than design) and have gone thru detector arches with NO metal ANYWHERE on my person (ctton tank top, gi pants, and underwear.  Neoprene sandals.  Glasses, keys, wallet, and wedding band removed) and the damn thing STILL tripped!  The wand, of course, revealed nothing.

Granted, these are only the mail reasons why I no longer fly.  I am not worried about airline or airplane safety (I used to jump out of airplanes for a living) but I need to be able to move, and I like to travel with a little hardware.  When I am stripped of even a useful pocketknife, I know we have fully gone mad.

I therefore refuse to fly for convenience (emergencies can get me on a plane) until they regain their common sense.  Besides, why do the baggage handlers that caused me to buy new luggage every two years make three times what the monkey at the gate get?  Why does the Security Chimp NOT speak English?  What do they know about weapons and explosives in the first place?

Gad - I felt better on MAC hops!  Put me on a C-130 with a piss tube and a cargo shipment and I can be happy - the good old days...

FFZ

Sounds like the zero tolerance folks at the public schools are working their way towards the airports.

I haven't ever seen it THAT bad.  Makes me want to stop flying, too.  I've never understood how the FAA (simply because they're a Federal Agency) has the ability to pass all these idiotic rules and regulations.  It would be one thing if the airline itself did it (it is THEIR plane, after all), but the FAA??  I don't get it.

Checking my M-16/AR-15's always is a treat at the airport.  They always want me to take them out at the desk when checking them.  Once I have it out, they want to see it (to make sure it's unloaded, of course :).  I always get it back with a big grin and a few extra fingerprints.

My wife and I were coming home from New Orleans.  We both had handguns, and checked them at the counter.  The lady needed to make sure they were unloaded, so asked us to open the case.  She immediately grabbed the barrel of my 1911 and looked down the barrel to see if any bullets were in it!!  I heard several gasps behind me in line (people in the South generally know how to handle guns?).  I SLOWLY reached over and pushed the barrel down and said "how about we check it the old-fashioned way?" and showed her how to remove the mag, open slide, etc.  Got to give a lesson in firearm safety in front of about 50 people in a crowded airport - that was fun!!

The ultimate has to be when "someone very close to me" came to pick me up at the airport.  Let's just say they forgot to remove their legal concealed carry before sending it through the metal detector.  Gosh, I'm going to miss that gun :).  They were actually pretty nice about it - the guard joked around with us on the way out.  I understand they ran a background check and simply let them go.  Supposedly the FAA will send the gun back some day - I'm not holding my breath.

Geez - belt buckles, GI Joes and fingernail clippers?  You just haven't lived!!

    Black Fox

I'm an airline pilot for a big airline and have encountered every kind of security flaw.  I personally carry a 2.9 inch half serrated emerson folder.  It hides very easily.  I got a serrated one because the FAA website says nothing about serrations being illegal.  Only less than four inches in length for the blade.  But material I've read says serrations are illegal.  Some airports care and some do not.  When I'm in uniform, they usually don't care when I show it to them.  But one place will take a look and say no and bring a supervisor over.  The supervisor looks at it and at me and lets me pass.  I always say I need it for the job anyway.  Not very easy to cut through seatbelts with a non-serrated blade.  But what I do now is just put it in my luggage so it rides perpendicular to the xray belt so they can't possibly see what it actually is.  Pass no problem.  It's ridiculous how things work.  I am speaking hypothetical here: it is so easy to get around security with anything.  In uniform, in plain clothes.  Even if you check your gun at the counter, it is so easy to get your luggage brought to you at the gate.  Ridiculous.

LAX security is indeed paranoia city.. I was headed overseas and had made it through all other airport security checkpoints (D/FW and St. Louis) without any problems. Had a 6 hour layover in LAX so headed out of the terminal to a decent restaraunt. When I checked back through to the terminal area I placed my coins and keychain as one normally does to go through the metal detector and was greeted with the security guard on station holding my keychain out of the little tray. "I can't let you board the plane with this.." I know you've seen them and probly have one. It's a keychain using an inert cartridge complete with hole drilled through it for the keyring. I couldn't believe it!! I've had that keychain for over 6 years and have travelled abroad a few times and nary a problem till then [rolleyes] I protested and asked why, and was told to not make a ascene about it or they would have me arrested.. Sheeze... [whacko]

Rick

A friend went through departure at LAX a few years ago. He had a plastic item in a carryon that showed up on the X-Ray. X-Ray machines aren't just for metal. Anyway, he was stopped and questioned if it was real. The item? A small plastic Godzilla.

ARChoo- America Worst.Err West..

Sometimes they don't catch stuff that they should.  A couple years ago I flew on a business trip.  When I was unpacking in my hotel room, I discovered that my carry on had a couple of shotgun shells (live ones) in one of the pockets.  They must have got forgotton after a hunting trip.  Lucky for me they didn't get noticed by security.  I tossed them before my return trip.

When I was younger my friends and I would sneak liquor on. Once the plane it came to us that we could have easily brought some flammable liquid aboard. The detectors only scan for metal, not a bottle full of gas or gun powder.

A friend of mine's younger brother was carried to the airport by his parents to catch a flight. My friends mother carries one of those small 22 derringer pistols in her purse at all times. She had forgotten to remove it and she put her purse on the conveyor belt so it could pass through the x-ray machine. The female airport attendant was shooting the bull with another female employee and it got past her x-ray machine. My friends mother did not realize the pistol was still in her purse until she was looking for something. She freaked out and told her husband. He said don't worry about it and they passed through the exit of the terminal without incident.

Moose

Recently went through an airport security checkpoint with a kubotan on my keychain.  They didn't bat an eyelash at it, in fact it went in the little blue tray (around any detection equipment) and then back into my pocket.  I could have just as easily brought a .22 or 9mm zip gun that looks like a kubotan.  

My take is that airport security is just to make people feel better and limit liability.  Some of those fuckers take it way too seriously though.  

The worst part is, if you get your carry on stolen by some miscreant and his accomplice, the first thing the airport does is tell you they aren't liable.  Sure they're not--they installed the security checkpoint and needlessly hassle millions of people each year, but when something goes wrong, it's not their fault.  Not that I don't think your bags are your own personal responsibility, but think about it:  the metal detectors are the only place where it is mandatory that you have to separate from your bag for a time.  Even a few moments gives a thief the opportunity.  

Here's a good one on LAX. There are a lot of movies and TV shows that shoot there. If you are going past the security gate all personnel have to pass through the metal detector, but equipment is given a very quick visual inspection at a side gate. So we wheel our equipment up to the side gate, take off our tool belts and hang them on the equipment carts, they pass through while we go through the metal detector and then join our equipment and tool belts on the other side. Last time I worked there if we were wearing hats they made us lift them so they could see the tops of our heads. Yes, I'm smuggling something on my head instead of hiding it on the cart......

Often you end up making about a dozen trips this way.

Some of the stuff these guys pull [u]defies common sense.[/u]

The problem is they have you by the balls. Time limits for flights, limited resources to take care of the problem, etc.

It seems like the security attendants discretion is too wide. Like someone is saying "if it looks threatening or menacing then no go."  Define menacing and threatening?  It means different things to different people.

I totally respect the FAA's job of keeping people safe,  but some of this stuff they are doing goes way beyond the realm of common sense.

Here's another one about the lax security at LAX. About 6 months ago my brother and i flew up to Oregon to see relatives. My brother wanted to bring his new 45 that he got. So we go to the Alaska counter and it took maybe 5 seconds. Fill out the one piece of paper and that's it. The girl didn't even want to see the gun. So i think, maybe its just Alaska Air and they're used to people taking guns for hunting trips.
So we finish our trip and are getting ready to fly back to LA. Well this time he gets the third degree from the folks at the Alaska Air counter in Portland. Fill out this form and that form, check the gun, lock, etc.
You would think the bigger hassle would have been in the PRK. Go figure.

It wasn't LAX but just a little further inland at Ontario International.
A friend of mine and I had been out shooting and screwed around until we were late picking up a neighbor who was flying in. WE rushed to the airport, forgot about everything else. When we got to the security gate, I emptied my pockets into the little tray. The guard looked over my knife, a three and a half inch folder, but did not say anything about the twenty or so 9mm live rounds that were in the tray with my change.

Remember the story last year about a lady who had a headache and said "I could kill somebody for an aspirin"! ...somebody reported her and she was arrested for making threats on an airliner.

M.

I regularly pick people up at McCarran airport in Las Vegas...  most times my Benchmade Stryker doesn't even set off the metal detector, but, on the few instances when it has, I just put it on the lil tray and no one thinks twice about it.  The LAX paranoia hasn't made it here, I guess.

TreeTop, fess up with that flaming backpack story. Please.

-RyanG
[flag]

COME ON TREETOP!!!!!!!!!!!!  LET'S HEAR IT MAN!!!!!! [smash]


Nuckles.

I used to gamble with a semi-pro team, and would have to schlep a box of practice material with me, including several racks of clay "casino" chips.  Every airport would stop me and inspect them (to make sure they weren't sticks of dynamite or something, I guess), but LAX was the worst -- the security bimbo stopped me and made me wait, and wait, and wait, ignoring me while she dealt with others.  Finally I blew up at her and told her to inspect them or let me go -- and she let me go catch my flight.

The only other dumb one was a few years ago at Ohare, when I put a computer disk drive enclosure on the pass-around stand, walked through the metal detector, picked it up and went to my flight.  The box could've been stuffed with ANYTHING, and they didn't even glance at it.

On other occasions, they treated me like dirt when I checked firearms through to other cities, but that was about it -- sure, Mr. "security" officer, I'm gonna be carrying a gun on board in addition to the ones I've checked. . . .  Idiots.

Utah was the best;  I forgot I'd picked up a couple of Glock magazines, so I had them in my pocket when I got to the metal detector.  I just handed them to the guard, walked through, and got them back -- no hassles from him.  I was amazed.  And thankful! [:D]

This should take care of knife problems thru airport security  

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There was another incident like this last Christmas when 2 kids flying home with their GI Joes got them confiscated. Myself, I got stopped at the Amarillo airport with .50 dummy round in my bag. They took it of course. Too late to check it by then. They missed it at the Albuquerque airport on the way over.

God, If I coulda just got hold of some primer, powder, and a drill to drill through the primer pocket and some tape to tape up the 4 holes in the side of the brass, and let's see.....hm...a tube of some kind to fire it in, a hammer to set the primer off, well, a hammer and a nail to set the primer off AND reckless disregard for my own safety I could of made an assault....uh, something and hijacked the airplane!  [heavy]

In a previous life..er...career I worked at the airport for an airline.  Part of which was security-related.  Part of that involved regularly "testing" the security checkpoints.

Holes45 was right on the money.  Even now when I fly, I too carry a folding blade less than 4" with a half serrated blade (a Schrade Tool).  While it is technically legal, I found years ago it is much less hassle to send it through the x-ray machine.

It is possible to illegally sneak a number of things through security, though the learning curve is steep and the penalties are high and I don't advise trying.  

The machinery works great. As Wadman pointed out, it can "see" plastic.  Any errors can usually be found with the machine operator.

I've seen mistakes here and there.  Just last week at Sky Harbor, a security checkpoint person made a simple mistake and failed to properly scrutinize an item.  That simple oversight could have been exploited for someone to carry a few pistols and an SMG or two through (small SMG's).

Another time, my wife was in a hurry to get to the airport to pick up a friend.  While she was showering, I told her that I removed her carry pistol from her purse holster as well as her extra magazines and I grabbed her 9mm and her two extra mags.  She raced out to the airport and the security checkpoint x-ray saw something "opaque" in the purse.  They rightfully so did a physical search.  While they were searching, she bit her lip as she could see the heel of the third loaded magazine that I had missed.  The security people missed the mag and I got an earfull when she got home.

Overall though, they do well, and where airport security is not 100%, it makes up for it with perceived security and high penalties for those trying to learn.

And the FAA is a government entity like any other.  Regulations written by committee and the like.  I recall one day when some "new" restrictions went into place...a form of profiling.  We were all up to date ready to go when the first passenger I help fits the profile, so technically, extra measures would go into play.  However, he was also a Secret Service agent (a bunch of them were flying to a city where the President was going to speak).  It didn't make any sense to take "extra measures" on a guy that we were going to allow to take his pistol right on the airplane.  We worked with the FAA that night to get the directive to make a bit more sense.

Last...even when I tried my best to test the security checkpoints, I was far less than 100% successful.

- Robbie

The airports are just the first step.  Once people get used to that, they will move further and further out into the rest of the countryside.  That's what seatbelt and DWI checkpoints are for.  It's all about incrementally taking a little freedom here, a little liberty there, until there is none left.

Airport security is nothing but a joke, if real trained terrorist really wanted to bring guns onto planes they can do it no problem.  And if any of the airport security guards got into a dangerous situation they are screwed because a 12 year old girl could beat their asses.

Texas late '70s & '80s, Alaska early '90s:
I used to board the plane (usually Southwest, AmericaWest, Alaska Airlines, Mark Airlines), with my Schrade Sharpfinger(3in. blade) in a belt sheath.
Once we flew into S.F. from Alaska to see my wife's family in CA. On the return trip SF Intl. wouldn't let me on with the knife to go home. I argued and even went to the security office. They told me, " We don't even let ladies on with knitting needles". I finally boxed it and caught our flight. First thing picking up luggage in Fairbanks, I opened the box and put the knife back on. I NEVER had a problem carrying that knife on my belt in Texas or any Alaskan airport.

Just wanted to say that when I went thru Detroit recently, I set off the detector. Nothing in my pockets, nothing under my hat. It was my old Danners that did it. They actually asked me (in broken english) why I felt I needed to wear boots with so much metal on them.Kind of pissed me off.

Columbus, OH airport made me check my 3" serrated blade pocketknife last year, said it was the serrated blade which made it illegal to carry on...Lord help us when  real terrorists decide to make noise on the American Motherland!!

I just went through LAX and they let me take a MG34 and 2 HK MP5s though without a problem.  The MG 34 is about 10 inches long and is the coolest little gun.  The barrel shroud and barrel come off for quick barrel changes, it has a folding tripod, folding sites!  And a belt of 8mm.  Looks awesome on my desk.  The MP5s have spring loaded cocking handles. Perfect fot GI Joe SEALS!

About ten years ago I flew on a business trip to Buffalo NY for a training school.  I traveled with two other guys from my company.  We went from Phoenix through Chigago to Buffalo.  One guy was carrying a (new at the time) titanium folding lockback.  The blade was a good 4", stainless and serrated.  The sidepanels were titanium and through-drilled.  No magnetic steel in the knife apparently.  He went through every metal detector with the knife in his back pocket and never set anything off.  

On the trip back to Phoenix he was seated across the aisle from us, next to an old couple from Australia.  We all struck up a conversation about life in Australia and their impressions of America.  When they served the in-flight snack we each got a plum that was hard as a rock.  The old lady was trying to cut hers with the cheap plastic knife you get with the snack.  No joy.  Steve whips out his "pocketknife", opens it and hands it to the old lady.  "Oh THANK You!" she says, and proceeds carving on her plum.

The stewardess (oops! "Female Flight Attendant") walks by and does a classic double-take, stops for a second in obvious indecision, and then proceeds on her way down the aisle.  I guess she felt the old lady wasn't too much of a threat, even with the pig-sticker.

I doubt he'd get that knife through any metal detector today.

That's nothing new for airport security.  They just harass anyone just to feel important.

At the El Paso airport in Texas I was stopped from entering the plane with a cow skull I was bringing back from my uncle's ranch. They said the "horns" on the thing were a potential danger.  The horns were duller than pool cues, but it didn't matter. I had to return to the counter and check it in with the luggage. I can see their point. "Man hijacks plane with cow skull!"

Your sis should have unloaded the gun first.

Reading this after the WTC attack makes you understand how the hijackers got control of the plane. They security people are worried about the wrong things. I can only imagine how bad it is going to be now.

Security screening at the xray machines and metal detectors may or may not have been the factor that let these terrorists get through but regardless, security needs to be revamped, drastically.  But besides that point, with a couple more thugs, the highjackers could have (in my opinion) gotten the same results without knives or boxcutters.  Just by strongarming the plane's occupants, they could have done the same exact thing. Just something I wanted to add.