Ironic,....  Post 1775


ETA: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4881474.stm


Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'
As a US citizen living in London, Christian Cox says she is shocked at the amount of abuse she receives because of her nationality.

She says the level of anti-Americanism she has experienced "feels like a kind of racism".

"I don't want anyone to feel sorry for Americans, or me, I just want people to realise that we are dealing with hatred too," she says.

If you have had similar experiences or have an opinion on this story send your comments to the BBC using the form at the bottom of this page.


Typical British pub banter is one thing, says Christian Cox, but the "pure hatred" she says is directed at her for being American is really starting to wear her down.

The former model moved to London a year ago, where she is setting up her own business, and has been surprised at how some people have reacted to her nationality.

Ms Cox, 29, says she has been called, among other things, "terrorist", "scum", "low life", and feels that she is constantly being held to account for the actions of President Bush and for US foreign policy.

This is despite the fact that she doesn't agree with the war in Iraq and didn't vote for Bush.


I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life
American critic  

However she adds: "Bush is our leader and I respect that. It's a bit like the way you feel about your father. You don't always agree with him, but you would defend him."

She has travelled widely in other parts of Europe, Mexico, Canada and Australia but says this is the first time her pride in her country has been challenged in such a vitriolic way.

"People would make jokes about Americans but I didn't experience the pure hatred I have had since I came to live here.

"I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing.


"And I do think some people in the US need to be more educated about what's going on in the world.

"But some people just fly off the handle without even talking to me - it's as if they had been waiting to run into an American all day to let their feelings out," she says.

To avoid confrontations she says she lowers her voice on the Underground and in pubs.

But in one incident an older man asked her directly if she was American.

"When I said yes he said: 'I just want you to know that I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life' - meaning we were low-life.

"I said I was sorry he felt that way, but that I disagreed."

The man started shouting obscenities at her group. The row developed into a brawl and Ms Cox suffered a black eye as she tried to pull two people apart.


"After that I cried for two days, then booked a flight back to the States. I felt so hated, I needed to be with people who loved me."

Some friends now advise her to tell people she is Canadian, to deflect potential abuse, an option she calls "sad".

'Culture shock'

However it is advice that teacher Francesca Terry, 28, who grew up in Seattle, recognises.

She has lived in London for four years and is married with a daughter.

"I was aware before I moved here that when you travelled abroad it was always better to say you were Canadian if you could get away with it. But we treated it more like a joke."

She was subjected to verbal abuse in the first year or so in Britain, but things calmed down particularly when she had her daughter and stopped going out to pubs so much.

"When I first came here it was part of the culture shock. I felt really naive, I had thought I would go unnoticed here.

"I would go out and I'd just get picked on by people taking pot shots. I just didn't speak when we went out. What shocked me was that people would just say the rudest comments."

But she adds that she has a close group of girlfriends from the US, many of whom say they have not had similar experiences.

She says she is still cautious when she's out and about: "If people ask where I'm from I say 'the States, but the part near Canada'."

"I feel bad about saying that, but it is out of a kind of guilt, I just don't want to get into it with people. When I do, I tell them these are not my choices. I understand my president makes bad decisions, but that's not me."


The US embassy in London declined to comment on the story.

Quoted: "I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing.

Is that the in-phrase for patriotism now?

But in one incident an older man asked her directly if she was American. "When I said yes he said: 'I just want you to know that I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life' - meaning we were low-life.

Couldn't have been old enough to be around in WW2 when we saved their bacon, I suppose.

I think a good "go fuck yourself" would be in order.

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, I find that people in general nowadays are very rude and have no shame.  Poor behaviour is so widespread, that it is now accepted as "normal", and people do not recognize it for what it is.  We are all infected by it.

You don't have to travel to Europe to feel hated, or to be insulted.  Public decorum has gone into the toilet in many places.

The lady in the article said that things improved when she stopped going to pubs.  Go figure.

If I ever traveled overseas I don't think I would ever hide my nationality. If people asked me what country I was from I'd tell them straight up; TEXAS!

"I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing."

I was reading a thread on another board about what non-Americans think of us and, almost to a man, they said they didn't understand patriotism. One comment that kept being made was why we "worship a piece of land."

I didn't realize how shallow the rest of the world was.

Why would anyone want to live overseas anyway?  We are far superior in every aspect anyway .

I have not been abroad at all lately, but in 2000, I spent a little time in Europe - all in all I was shocked at the way I was treated

All the youth (high school kids) would come up to talk with me, and pretty much thank me for the US saving their butt in WWII

Oh, should mention, they were German kids (and some Polish).

Perhaps times have changed a lot since 2000.

Meh.

The brits are just pissed about their "empire" going down the toilet, and having to follow OUR lead from about 1900 onwards. Fuck 'em. Our teeth are nicer than theirs, and our food is WAY better.

Quoted: Why would anyone want to live overseas anyway?  We are far superior in every aspect anyway .

Agreed.

I agree with the world opinion that Americans, in general, have no real experience outside the country. For that reason, among others, I'm thinking about taking a job in either the UK (London) or Japan for a year. That way, when I explain why the US is the greatest nation on earth, I can have some evidence to back it up.

the mistake she made was going to London. London is about as full of left wing crazies as L.A. S.F. and Boston combined. she should have gone to the "real" England, she would have had a much different reception there. I'm a former Brit now naturalized American and I'm going over with my American family in july for the 4th time. We never get anything but friendly welcomes.

In the Roman times, they walked on Roman roads, were safeguarded by Roman legionnaires, drank water from Roman aquaducts, thrived on Roman commerce, and benefited from arts and science brought by Pax Romana.


And they bitched about Romans and hated them.  Oh, and when the Romans were finally gone, guess which barbarians came in and filled the void.  Wow, it's called the Dark Ages for a reason


The British lost their empire and are green with envy.  If you watch a lot of Bollywood Indian flicks, the British are portrayed as half beasts, half Satan.

A food chain of hatred giving and receiving, I guess

In south America, specifically Venezuela, I noticed a strong love/hate relationship that foreigners have with the USA.

1.  They desperately want to be like us.  They frequently immitate our clothing styles, hair styles, etc.  This includes a desperate desire to be the world's superpower like the USA is.

2.  Because their own country isn't nearly as great as our own, they feel strong jealousy towards the USA.

Hence, they love us and want to be like us, but hate us because they realize that their own country doesn't measure up to ours.

In some musician circles I've run in, the foeign members (esp Brits) were very hateful toward any of us Americans that didn't slam our own country and disavow it. I lost a lot of potential musician friends by not being apologetic.

Quoted: I think a good "go fuck yourself" would be in order.

+1

the world doesn't understand. that's why the world doesn't live in the US. a *few* people were smart, fast, brave, strong enough to stride out on their own and make something out of a raw piece of land. we've surpassed EVERYONE in the little time blip that we've existed as a nation.

we're proud of being american because there is something to be proud. if europe would take a closer look at themselves they'd see that the only thing they excell at is america-bashing. and that ain't nothing to be all that proud of considering they have nothing else.

let's see, high unemployment:

check.

stalled economic activity en masse:

check.

about to be taken over by a "one world government" that most of them voted against:

check...

Anyone who travels abroad and claims to be Canadian is a fawking pussy.   Plain and simple.


And if these fawking Brits are so upset at what we are doing in the middle east, perhaps they should take a look at what their nation has done to Ireland over the past couple of hundred years.   Or any number of other cultures around the world.

They have more blood on their hands than even the Nazis did.   Yet despite their glass house, they throw stones, because they have become a nation of pussified politically correct  and arrogant sheep who feel a false sense of safety in numbers.

The Queen Mother can lick my taint.

Damn,  this story makes me want to travel to England and get in some fights.  

i think its not because of jealousy.
I think its the work of the MASSIVE anti-american hate campaign launched by the left-wing media. Sadly almost all mass media channels in western-europe are left-wing. People get brainwashed with that shit, hell its even brought as the "cool" stance to take, part of the modern fashion or something.
If you start asking questions about why they do it then most cant give any reasonable answer.

Its all coming from the same filth-hole: "enviromentalism", "organic", "multi-culturalism", "anti-americanism"

Quoted: Anyone who travels abroad and claims to be Canadian is a fawking pussy.   Plain and simple.

+1!!!!!

TheBrits?  For Pete's sake, they clone sheep.  That says it all right there.

But I don't want to pass a chance to pile on.

1.  Their men are not virile.  And that's the non-gay faction.
2.  Their women are not that good looking.
3.  They have always lived in a class system and are uncomfortable with the whole idea of upward mobility.
4.  Brit food is legendary.....for being the worst in Europe.
5.  Look at all the screwed up parts of the world.  Either the French or the Brits were there for very long times.
6.  They fucking clone sheep!!!!
7.  They won't defend themselves against criminals.
8.  They drink their beer warm.
9.  They look forward to eating kidneys....probably from sheep.
10.  Many of the Anglican clergy don't even believe in God.

Quoted: Damn,  this story makes me want to travel to England and get in some fights.

Don't be like Russell Crowe "Foightin' 'round the World"



ETA:  Lyrics to sing while kicking lefty brit ass:

Born in New Zealand in sixty-four
A hot-headed actor named Russell Crowe
He loves to act but he loves one thing more:
Fight-in' Round The World

He fight his directors and he fights his fans
It's a problem no one understands
If there's two things he love it's fighting and,
Fight-in' Round The World

Makin' movies, makin' music and
Fight-in' Round The World!

Russell Crowe!

Exit

Tugger's whistle's blowin'
Means we must be goin'
No more Russell Crowein' for you.

But now don't you start to whine
I'll see ya again next time.
'Cause there's plenty a-more a-foightin' left to do.

Makin' movies, makin' songs, an' foightin' round the world.

Quoted: Quoted: Damn,  this story makes me want to travel to England and get in some fights.   Don't be like Russell Crowe "Fightin' 'round the World" upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/id/5/5c/Southrussel.jpg

Naw, I don't want to go to Asia...just Europe.  Actually, just England, as the French are too pussy to fight.

First they ban guns, and now Americans

And this is in a country that is our supposed ally.

Imagine how the rest of the world thinks of us!

"Well, if you hate me for being an American you're really not gonna like that I support Sinn Fein."

I don't support Sinn Fein (commies), but it's a good way to get the fight started.

tell them to go themselves..in GERMAN...

ask them about what it was like to be bombed by the luftwaffe everynight..

Quoted: i think its not because of jealousy. I think its the work of the MASSIVE anti-american hate campaign launched by the left-wing media. Sadly almost all mass media channels in western-europe are left-wing. People get brainwashed with that shit, hell its even brought as the "cool" stance to take, part of the modern fashion or something. If you start asking questions about why they do it then most cant give any reasonable answer. Its all coming from the same filth-hole: "enviromentalism", "organic", "multi-culturalism", "anti-americanism"

What's the general view of Americans and the US in Estonia?

At the end of the day, it's all about power. The Brits shot their wad prior to 1900 and now are just a poor relation. They resent it. Suck it up Nigel. You aren't what you you think you were. You probably never were.  

I enjoy my time in London.

News flash, there are good people and fuck faces everywhere you go, act accordingly.

Plus socialism rots your brain; when my English friends come out, first I take them to Vegas. Some decent food, a little shooting, and a quick apreasheation for huge benefits of capitalism will reform most attitudes in my experience. You just got to sell them the dream.

Ditto, I am actually a Canadian by birth but I like to consider myself an American considering that I went to high school in the States. Sadly, I have to pass off as a Canadian most times if I want to avoid nasty and often-times physical confrontations with beligerent Europeans. Now, I must say that both sides have their merits and speak some truth, but also, both sides are wrong in many ways. I guess that's the duality of man. In the end, however, the European level of anti-nationalism and anti-Americanism has scared me back to being a fervent US-supporter (not on all issues, mind you, but at large, yes) simply because I cannot understand such pathetic shows of vehement vitriol and downright brutish fury  that many Europeans, even "educated" ones, are displaying.

USA 1 : Europe 0.

I still get away with my "propaganda" though. I have a Velcro patch on my bag that I carry all the time and I have a subdued US flag patch on it at most times. I can switch to Canadian subdued or non-subdued, or Scottish non-subdued, when I have to. It's awesome. Cost me a few bucks and a half an hour of thread and needle work (Yes, I did it myself ).

Screw um nobody likes REDCOATS anyway they have too much SMUG. Just go on a bitch slapping  spree. Give em the full American experience.

Oh yeah, what the article points out repeatedly and what is the most shocking about his is the pure hatred. I have never felt such hatred before. Never. It is the sort of hate that causes people to murder millions. It is quite scary. I wish I could CCW here for the sake of my safety. Alas, even striking an assailant with your bare hands will probably land you, the victim, in jail for a spell for unnecessary assault and whatnot B.S. charges. Such is the sad state of life in a police state. But hey, I love it!

P.S.: The first time I've ever met this sort of hatred was after the start of the Iraq invasion in 2003 when I was in NYC. I had to attend an official function down in Greenwich Village and thus was wearing my uniform and because the hippie scum were holding protests against the war at Union Square, I had to walk a few blocks when the cab had to stop. So, I walked through mostly deserted streets below Union Square towards 14th Street when this bum (literally) starts hurling slurred threats and insults at me and starts making threatening motions and started following me (attracting other less-than-friendly looking types). I was in Class A dress so I wasn't going to stay around for a fight and get my uniform torn up by some bums, but I would've loved to give that jerk a piece of my mind. How dare he attack me like that? I don't see him doing anything!

What are you talking aboot eh?

I've played the canadian card before. I was in a autrailian bar with beligerent rugby players looking to get into a fight.

The problem is that she is surprised that she runs into uneducated assholes at a pub and on the public transportation system. This is ENGLAND man, there standard of living is below ours and they are pissed that they are no longer the dominant world power. Most brits will go on about how sweet her majesty's navy was MORE THAN 100 YEARS AGO! And of course, how their brought civilization to brown people all around the world and "the colonies".

Don't go into a pig sty and not expect stinky shit

Quoted: What are you talking aboot eh? I've played the canadian card before. I was in a autrailian bar with beligerent rugby players looking to get into a fight. The problem is that she is surprised that she runs into uneducated assholes at a pub and on the public transportation system. This is ENGLAND man, there standard of living is below ours and they are pissed that they are no longer the dominant world power. Most brits will go on about how sweet her majesty's navy was MORE THAN 100 YEARS AGO! And of course, how their brought civilization to brown people all around the world and "the colonies". Don't go into a pig sty and not expect stinky shit

Note: I don't say "aboot", so, if you want this to remain a civil discussion, I suggest you cut out the cute act, okay?

You are correct  in the sense that Brit thugs are much more violent and violence-hounds than American thugs (who tend to like a nice beatdown every two weeks or so). However, to say that this is because the UK's standard of living is below yours is not only stupid, but shows your complete ignorance. You really should be bit more careful talking about things that you have NO CLUE ABOUT, okay? I love America, I do, but idiots like you, who speak out of turn and are blathering ignorant fools, are what give America and Americans a bad name. I do not sympathize. HRH's Navy was sweet 50 years ago too. In fact, it is still one of the major naval powers, so, again: Think before you write. That last bit, about some sort of inherent racism in the UK, is so ridiculous, I won't even bother discussing that. Here's a twopence, buy yourself a clue.


ETA: Yes, as I said, I am a double-edged sword. You can have my alliegance, but you must be man enough about things to not catch the other side. I am a man stuck between two worlds, a lover and hater of both. The common enemy is ignorance, stupidity, and lies (and the lying liars who tell them).  Don't make me your enemy. I don't want to be. I prefer to make friends, you know.

My ex-wife has a large extended family in England and I keep in touch with a couple of her uncles.   We have a good relationship and they will often joke with me about American politics.  When I reply to their emails and such I will typically start with "Greetings from the Colonies".  That usually get them to stammer with a response.    

When it comes to talking to other Europeans and even other Brits here and when I've traveled over there, I've had a few mild run in's with folks in bars.  My former in-laws over there live in and around Manchester so when I have gone there we typically go out to a few pubs.  I've had the "Hey Yank" stuff tossed my way.  When I've bothered to engage in conversation with the few loud mouths I have often said something like "Oh your from Europe? Which part?  The part we saved or the part whose ass we kicked?"  The loud mouth again was dumbfounded as to what to say, plus his friends started laughing at him.  I've also called a few "Neville" when they start in the "warmonger" stuff.  They don't always get it.  

Quoted: Quoted: i think its not because of jealousy. I think its the work of the MASSIVE anti-american hate campaign launched by the left-wing media. Sadly almost all mass media channels in western-europe are left-wing. People get brainwashed with that shit, hell its even brought as the "cool" stance to take, part of the modern fashion or something. If you start asking questions about why they do it then most cant give any reasonable answer. Its all coming from the same filth-hole: "enviromentalism", "organic", "multi-culturalism", "anti-americanism" What's the general view of Americans and the US in Estonia?

Thats quite common view in western-europe, particularly in the countries with "nanny state" systems, of course not all people are affected, only the easily-impressionable.
Over here we remember too well what socialism and lack of freedom really means so people over here tend to be more normal. Most people understand that without allies like US our independence and national survival is in grave danger.

Quoted: However, to say that this is because the UK's standard of living is below yours is not only stupid, but shows your complete ignorance.

Let it be known that the UK's per-capita GDP is about 40% less than the US. A large economic "lower class" does result in a whole host of socio-economic problems. Do "chavs" stem from a lower standard of living? Maybe not directly, but to say that the assertion is ignorant is disingenuous.

Quoted: Quoted: However, to say that this is because the UK's standard of living is below yours is not only stupid, but shows your complete ignorance. Let it be known that the UK's per-capita GDP is about 40% less than the US. A large economic "lower class" does result in a whole host of socio-economic problems. Do "chavs" stem from a lower standard of living? Maybe not directly, but to say that the assertion is ignorant is disingenuous.

most America bashers that i have met are not lower class chavs but kids from well to do middle class families who have this strange need to do something "good", "help the 3rd world", "save the planet" type of crap.

Quoted: Quoted: However, to say that this is because the UK's standard of living is below yours is not only stupid, but shows your complete ignorance. Let it be known that the UK's per-capita GDP is about 40% less than the US. A large economic "lower class" does result in a whole host of socio-economic problems. Do "chavs" stem from a lower standard of living? Maybe not directly, but to say that the assertion is ignorant is disingenuous.

You obviously use GDP as the measure of standard of living. You are in the minority on this. Money a good life does not make...

Yes, I agree that on average the British standard of life is slightly (but really just slightly) lower than in the US, but it isn't because of the lower GDP, or even the substantial (even if over-rated, to be frank) problem with "chavs", "kappa slappers", "neds", "pikeys", whatever you want to call them. I would say that healthcare in the UK is actually better than in the US, for example. I say this as an NHS user. They always had an appointment slot for me in the next day or two, I was always seen at the scheduled time, and I found the doctors most knowledgable, which is far more than what I can say about the expensive US healthcare that I experienced where I had to schedule appointments a week or more in advance (sort of defeats the purpose, no?), always had to wait at least half an hour before I was seen, and lastly, the doctors left me less than impressed, to be frank. Their diagnosis skills are very very weak. And I say all this having seen 5 seperate GP's in the US and 7 in the UK. While not a substantial sample, I would say that my opinion is reasonably founded.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: However, to say that this is because the UK's standard of living is below yours is not only stupid, but shows your complete ignorance. Let it be known that the UK's per-capita GDP is about 40% less than the US. A large economic "lower class" does result in a whole host of socio-economic problems. Do "chavs" stem from a lower standard of living? Maybe not directly, but to say that the assertion is ignorant is disingenuous. most America bashers that i have met are not lower class chavs but kids from well to do middle class families who have this strange need to do something "good", "help the 3rd world", "save the planet" type of crap.

Exactly. I hate the upper middle class, and I say that as one of them. I cannot stand these self-indulging, naive, ultra-liberal obnoxious sacks of filth. I have to put up with their rubbish all day.

Quoted: I would say that healthcare in the UK is actually better than in the US, for example. I say this as an NHS user. They always had an appointment slot for me in the next day or two, I was always seen at the scheduled time, and I found the doctors most knowledgable,

You have to be kidding; I suspect that you are just trolling!
There have been umpteen articles written about the British needing to go to India for cardiac and cancer treatment because of the inordinate waiting times in England.  Dental care sucks as well and try to get dialysis if you are over 55.

Quoted: You obviously use GDP as the measure of standard of living. You are in the minority on this. Money a good life does not make...

I'm confused. Do you mean "standard of living" or "quality of life?" The US has the highest "standard of living" (the economic term) in the G8 by a fair amount. I can't comment on "quality of life" as that is a subjective measurement.

I'm not trying to get into a dick-measuring contest between nations, just trying to get where you are coming from.

I spend quite a bit of time in Europe and the anti-American comments are much more subdued than they were 3 years ago.

I pretty much tell them to bugger off and thank the Americans and Russians for keeping them from speaking Deutsch today.

Quoted: If I ever traveled overseas I don't think I would ever hide my nationality. If people asked me what country I was from I'd tell them straight up; TEXAS!

One of the interestng things about Texas as far as the rest of the world is concerned is that it is one of the few, if not only, places whose outline you could draw and people know instantly what it is.  Virtually anywhere in the world.

Quoted: Why would anyone want to live overseas anyway?  We are far superior in every aspect anyway .

Work... And who said anything about wanting to...
<---

On the other hand, I have yet to hear an individual local here complain about my nationality to my face... We spend too much money here, and we're still saving their bacon....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: However, to say that this is because the UK's standard of living is below yours is not only stupid, but shows your complete ignorance. Let it be known that the UK's per-capita GDP is about 40% less than the US. A large economic "lower class" does result in a whole host of socio-economic problems. Do "chavs" stem from a lower standard of living? Maybe not directly, but to say that the assertion is ignorant is disingenuous. You obviously use GDP as the measure of standard of living. You are in the minority on this. Money a good life does not make... Yes, I agree that on average the British standard of life is slightly (but really just slightly) lower than in the US, but it isn't because of the lower GDP, or even the substantial (even if over-rated, to be frank) problem with "chavs", "kappa slappers", "neds", "pikeys", whatever you want to call them. I would say that healthcare in the UK is actually better than in the US, for example. I say this as an NHS user. They always had an appointment slot for me in the next day or two, I was always seen at the scheduled time, and I found the doctors most knowledgable, which is far more than what I can say about the expensive US healthcare that I experienced where I had to schedule appointments a week or more in advance (sort of defeats the purpose, no?), always had to wait at least half an hour before I was seen, and lastly, the doctors left me less than impressed, to be frank. Their diagnosis skills are very very weak. And I say all this having seen 5 seperate GP's in the US and 7 in the UK. While not a substantial sample, I would say that my opinion is reasonably founded.

OH jeez now you gone and done it! Never tell Americans that someplace, somewhere there might be one small thing that somebody has it better than them. Dont you know that Americans learned all they need to know about "the outer world" from a Matchbook cover? On most US maps beyond the Canadian and Mexican border it says "here be Dragons" and by dragons they mean liberals and french people? They dont even have a passport but they know that in Sweden (communist health care ) people who go to a hospital end up dead and their organs sold to the russian Mafia!  Dont you know that the only thing the "outer world" can offer us is woe and pain? Why do you think we dont give a shit about football or the metric system?? (invented by the French no LESS!! ) Come to ARFCOM on the night of the world cup, we'll talk about creationism! Who cares what the rest of the world thinks? Of course the price of our Utopia is that everyone hates us but since Most of us (real Americans that is) dont go beyond the continental shelf what do we care? Those Americans who live in other countries are traitors anyway! It's those goddamn hippies i tellz ya! [cartman] hippies![/cartman] and goddamn commies*! commies* i tellz ya! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!






Oh in case you are new to ARFCOM, Commie=hippie=democrat=greenie=foreigner=socialist=FRENCH!

Europeans think they're so smart parroting the crap they get bombarded by constantly by their media.  They're all in mental lock-step, unable to break out, guided by stereotypes, insecurities, feelings of helplessness, and really bad thinking.

As for yank ex-pats, they should just start their local chapters of Americans Anonymous

Quoted: Quoted: I would say that healthcare in the UK is actually better than in the US, for example. I say this as an NHS user. They always had an appointment slot for me in the next day or two, I was always seen at the scheduled time, and I found the doctors most knowledgable, You have to be kidding; I suspect that you are just trolling! There have been umpteen articles written about the British needing to go to India for cardiac and cancer treatment because of the inordinate waiting times in England.  Dental care sucks as well and try to get dialysis if you are over 55.

Methinks you are the one...

This is why I hate spring break, all the idiot children are let out of school to troll the boards.

I am not even going to get into a proper arguement with you considering what you are...

Quoted: Quoted: You obviously use GDP as the measure of standard of living. You are in the minority on this. Money a good life does not make... I'm confused. Do you mean "standard of living" or "quality of life?" The US has the highest "standard of living" (the economic term) in the G8 by a fair amount. I can't comment on "quality of life" as that is a subjective measurement. I'm not trying to get into a dick-measuring contest between nations, just trying to get where you are coming from.

Standard of living. Which isn't related to the GDP necessarily (that is another discussion). The GDP is the GDP, if you want to use that index, yes, the US is the greatest place to live. If you want to use "standard of living", that is a complex arguement with numerous schools of thought. All I can say is that oddly enough, Holland is generally at the top or very high up there. I don't disagree really (although I would never live in that filth ridden place), however, I personally, using the "quality of life" index, which is entirely non-scientific, would say that life in Austria or northern Italy is the best. Again, that is a philosophical/aesthetic argument, so I won't get into that.

We are talking about indexes that are very much contested and not exactly well defined such as "fastest car" or "biggest ship".