www.twitchguru.com/2005/12/03/doom_3_gets_religion/

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Here is what one Christian gamer told me:


There is no question this is the most evil game I have ever played, and I feel incredibly slimed after playing through it. I really don't see any valuable aspect in playing this game, it's not fun. It literally eats away at you spiritually and really sucks you dry. I would highly recommend that anyone who professes themselves to be Christian NOT PLAY THIS GAME.



I thought it was kinda dull and repetitive...
People are strange.

You would think they'd like to destroy Hell's demons!

People are strange when you’re a stranger
Faces look ugly when you’re alone
Women seem wicked when you’re unwanted
Streets are uneven when you’re down
When you’re strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you’re strange
No one remembers your name
When you’re strange
When you’re strange
When you’re strange
People are strange when you’re a stranger
Faces look ugly when you’re alone
Women seem wicked when you’re unwanted
Streets are uneven when you’re down
When you’re strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you’re strange
No one remembers your name
When you’re strange
When you’re strange
When you’re strange
When you’re strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you’re strange
No one remembers your name
When you’re strange
When you’re strange
When you’re strange

good idea.  Let's bash Christianity some more

Quoted: good idea.  Let's bash Christianity some more

Well, lets face it, sometimes people bring it on to themselves, I mean, what is this guy, an idiot? How the fuck does a GAME eat away at one spiritually, and suck you dry? And if it was so bad for him why did he play through the whole game...why not just turn it off?

Frankly the guy sounds like an idiot....

Some people aren't mentally equiped to play video games...

he should try manhunt for ps2

Grow up.

Quoted: Quoted: good idea.  Let's bash Christianity some more Well, lets face it, sometimes people bring it on to themselves, I mean, what is this guy, an idiot? How the fuck does a GAME eat away at one spiritually, and suck you dry? And if it was so bad for him why did he play through the whole game...why not just turn it off? Frankly the guy sounds like an idiot....

I completely agree. It's not a bash on Christians....it's a reflection of the stupidity of some Christians.

Every group has'em.

Quoted: Quoted: good idea.  Let's bash Christianity some more Well, lets face it, sometimes people bring it on to themselves, I mean, what is this guy, an idiot? How the fuck does a GAME eat away at one spiritually, and suck you dry? And if it was so bad for him why did he play through the whole game...why not just turn it off? Frankly the guy sounds like an idiot....

He probably blames the game for giving him "bad" thoughts. Thats how the strictly religious folks operate: they don't trust themselves to make the right choice, so they would just as soon eliminate that choice as an option...in the process eliminating that choice for you too, since they think it probably would affect you in the same way.

Here we go again.  Lets bash all Christians for what the Robertson crowd does.  I am a Christian.  My two brothers are Christians, and we've all played doom 3.  Our parents are Christians, and have never had any objections to something like this.  Our minister has never preached against something like this.  We are Lutherans.  Mainstream protestants.  And I can tell you that 90% of Christendom agrees with us.  Its just that the 10% that don't get all the press.  Its simply a man bites dog thing.  "Christian has no objection to violent video game" simply does not make the headlines.  

Quoted: Here we go again.  Lets bash all Christians for what the Robertson crowd does.  I am a Christian.  My two brothers are Christians, and we've all played doom 3.  Our parents are Christians, and have never had any objections to something like this.  Our minister has never preached against something like this.  We are Lutherans.  Mainstream protestants.  And I can tell you that 90% of Christendom agrees with us.  Its just that the 10% that don't get all the press.  Its simply a man bites dog thing.  "Christian has no objection to violent video game" simply does not make the headlines.

Have to agree with you.   Atheists have the same issue. Its the 10% who are assholes assholes and get all the press, when most of us are just like any other American.

I'm not saying this represents the majority of Christians in any way!

I just stumbled upon this and thought it was odd.

Humor is intended here.

Edited for not thinking in English again.

"A San Antonio-area school superintendent has pulled a critically acclaimed novel after a parent complained it was sexually explicit and offensive to Christians.

Judson school district superintendent Ed Lyman pulled "The Handmaid's Tale" by Canadian novelist Margaret Atwood from the district's Advanced Placement English curriculum."


""The Handmaid's Tale," published in 1985 and made into a film starring Natasha Richardson, Faye Dunaway and Robert Duvall, tells the story of an environmentally blighted United States after a coup.

Civil war rages as a fundamentalist Christian regime revokes all women's rights and presses the few who remain fertile into sexual slavery as breeders, called handmaids, for infertile couples.

The novel takes the form of a memoir written by one of the handmaids.


Cindy Pyo, who said she holds degrees in English, Bible and education, requested her son be given an alternative assignment, a request the school honored. He and a handful of other students in the class read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" instead of "The Handmaid's Tale," she said.

The novel won the Arthur C. Clarke Award for best science fiction, the Commonwealth Writers Prize, the Los Angeles Times Best Fiction Award and was short-listed for the Ritz Hemingway Prize and the Booker Prize for Fiction."



....."But along comes a parent who not only exercises the alternative for her child but decides "it's her duty to ensure no student be able to read" this book. She goes on to say, "I have a responsibility to the country and our community to speak up for the values that will strengthen our society."


Cindy Pyo lives in Universal City, Texas. She is married to Assemblies of God Chaplain Kwon Pyo.


Maybe they could just get together and burn all the books and games that they don't like.....have abig rally or something...

Quoted: Quoted: good idea.  Let's bash Christianity some more Well, lets face it, sometimes people bring it on to themselves, I mean, what is this guy, an idiot? How the fuck does a GAME eat away at one spiritually, and suck you dry? And if it was so bad for him why did he play through the whole game...why not just turn it off? Frankly the guy sounds like an idiot....

+1 If you don't like it, don't play the damn thing. I had to force myself to beat Doom 3 because I paid money for it and didn't want to waste it!! I don't understand why any Christian wouldn't enjoy playing Doom 3 anyway. You get to destroy all sorts of demons and evil and save the human race.

I generally have a lot of respect for most religious types, but sometimes they are just whacky. I remember when I was a young boy, my mother's friend (a VERY religious lady after a VERY unreligious past) was babysitting me. We went to the store and I wanted to rent the movie "The Wizard" which was about an autistic boy that's the best video game player ever. So she is ok with it at first till she sees the movie cover and says something to the effect of "THIS MOVIE HAS DEMONS IN IT! I won't rent it for you." It had some video game characters on the cover, WTF?! The game had NOTHING to do with demons. She also told me that sleep is the closest we come to death and satan in our lives or something or another. Very nice lady, but certainly misguided sometimes.

Quoted: .......so they would just as soon eliminate that choice as an option...in the process eliminating that choice for you too.......

To be fair, he said he "highly recommend(s) that anyone who professes themselves to be Christian NOT PLAY THIS GAME."  He said nothing about eliminating the game altogether.  It wasn't a call for banning or censorship.

On the other side, I do find it hard to believe that anyone would look at the cover of a Doom game and wonder if it has any redeeming Christian values.  And why play the entire game to find out it doesn't?

Quoted: "A San Antonio-area school superintendent has pulled a critically acclaimed novel after a parent complained it was sexually explicit and offensive to Christians. Judson school district superintendent Ed Lyman pulled "The Handmaid's Tale" by Canadian novelist Margaret Atwood from the district's Advanced Placement English curriculum." ""The Handmaid's Tale," published in 1985 and made into a film starring Natasha Richardson, Faye Dunaway and Robert Duvall, tells the story of an environmentally blighted United States after a coup. Civil war rages as a fundamentalist Christian regime revokes all women's rights and presses the few who remain fertile into sexual slavery as breeders, called handmaids, for infertile couples. The novel takes the form of a memoir written by one of the handmaids. Cindy Pyo, who said she holds degrees in English, Bible and education, requested her son be given an alternative assignment, a request the school honored. He and a handful of other students in the class read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" instead of "The Handmaid's Tale," she said. The novel won the Arthur C. Clarke Award for best science fiction, the Commonwealth Writers Prize, the Los Angeles Times Best Fiction Award and was short-listed for the Ritz Hemingway Prize and the Booker Prize for Fiction." ....."But along comes a parent who not only exercises the alternative for her child but decides "it's her duty to ensure no student be able to read" this book. She goes on to say, "I have a responsibility to the country and our community to speak up for the values that will strengthen our society." Cindy Pyo lives in Universal City, Texas. She is married to Assemblies of God Chaplain Kwon Pyo. Maybe they could just get together and burn all the books and games that they don't like.....have abig rally or something...

And again.  This Christian read and enjoyed a Handmaid's Tale, even though it is pure propaganda.  We had an excerpt from Atwood in our copy explaining why she wrote the book.  She thought that this horrible distopia would happen because evil Republicans and Christians were bad, bad, naughtly people who stayed up late at nights plotting to control women's bodies.  But it can still be an enjoyable read, just read it like you would Upton Sinclair.  Skip the propoganda crap at the end.

As a strong believer but not religious, I say that anyone who feels that the game is evil is too religious.  It was a bit repetetive, but it wasn't bad or evil.

I don't like religious believers.  They're annoying.

Quoted: Here we go again.  Lets bash all Christians for what the Robertson crowd does.  I am a Christian.  My two brothers are Christians, and we've all played doom 3.  Our parents are Christians, and have never had any objections to something like this.  Our minister has never preached against something like this.  We are Lutherans.  Mainstream protestants.  And I can tell you that 90% of Christendom agrees with us.  Its just that the 10% that don't get all the press.  Its simply a man bites dog thing.  "Christian has no objection to violent video game" simply does not make the headlines.

And just as those here would condemn all people in my career field for the mistakes of a few, all Christians should expect to share the burden of their more conservative brethren. The Baptists I grew up with wouldn't even call you guys real Christians. No offense.

Quoted:

And just as those here would condemn all people in my career field for the mistakes of a few, all Christians should expect to share the burden of their more conservative brethren. The Baptists I grew up with wouldn't even call you guys real Christians. No offense.

If that's the standard, then I reserve the right to throw the same level of hissy fit against any criticism of Christianity that our resident blue wall likes to throw at the slightest hint of criticism of a police officer.  The following will now be acceptable responses:

1.  Couldn't hack it as Christian, huh?
2.  STFU.  No one can criticise us Christians unless you are one of us.
3.  STFU.  Do you even know what the doctrine of the trinity means?
4.  We have it rough "in the pews."  Therefore, we are entitled to trounce other people's rights.
5.  Yeah we stoned the witch, but we were just following orders.  If you have a problem with that, don't blame us, blame God.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: good idea.  Let's bash Christianity some more Well, lets face it, sometimes people bring it on to themselves, I mean, what is this guy, an idiot? How the fuck does a GAME eat away at one spiritually, and suck you dry? And if it was so bad for him why did he play through the whole game...why not just turn it off? Frankly the guy sounds like an idiot.... I completely agree. It's not a bash on Christians....it's a reflection of the stupidity of some Christians. Every group has'em.

Wrong.  It's not a "reflection of the stupidity of some Christians", either.

It is a reflection of the opinion of one guy.

Doesn't reflect on Christians in any way.  

Just him.

Quoted: he should try manhunt for ps2

Oh yea! That game was great!

wah wah, did you guys even read the article?

some of the quoted christians actually had some decent/smart things to say. One noted that by offering up a graphically impressive vision of hell, good christians will be reminded that Jesus H. Christ is there to save the day (and that demons exist in real life).

The other soccer mom types of course, were quick to call congress to prevent this game from being released For the children!

Quoted: Here we go again.  Lets bash all Christians for what the Robertson crowd does.  I am a Christian.  My two brothers are Christians, and we've all played doom 3.  Our parents are Christians, and have never had any objections to something like this.  Our minister has never preached against something like this.  We are Lutherans.  Mainstream protestants.  And I can tell you that 90% of Christendom agrees with us.  Its just that the 10% that don't get all the press.  Its simply a man bites dog thing.  "Christian has no objection to violent video game" simply does not make the headlines.

+1

Played doom, doom2, doom3 and most of the doom variants (mods). Didn't hurt me spritiually, loved wackin' demons they deserve it. So do zombies, vampires and aliens......

Just not alien Team members at arfcom

tag

Quoted: Just not alien Team members at arfcom

Why thank you for not killing me!

I would think that Christians would get a kick out of blasting away demons.  

But like others have said, this guy does not represent Christians as a whole.  He's probably just some pansy boy that can't handle violent video games.  

I heard/read the same type of criticisms about Diablo, the only computer game I've ever been hooked on. (Man, I'd love to have those hours of my life back...)

I never found the game spiritually troubling, etc. - it was fictional and I treated it as such.  The only aspect of the game that bothered me was its addictive nature.  (The very reason I never bought/tried Diablo II...)

Quoted: I heard/read the same type of criticisms about Diablo, the only computer game I've ever been hooked on. (Man, I'd love to have those hours of my life back...) I never found the game spiritually troubling, etc. - it was fictional and I treated it as such.  The only aspect of the game that bothered me was its addictive nature.  (The very reason I never bought/tried Diablo II...)

I heard the same garbage when I was in high school. It was over the music that I listened and still listen to. "Oh you like Black Sabbath, your going to hell, that's devil worship music!!" I went to public school and was told this. I've learned to ignore the criticism of others beacuse we all fall short. My motto is "I'll deal with me, you deal with you." I know have to account for myself at the end of my time, so I'll have my hands full. I don't have time to waste worrying what other people think is right for my spirituality, I know me better than you do. If something truly affects negatively you leave it alone.  I agree, it's the 10 percent that cause the other 90 percent to be labeled incorrectly.  

Games I have found troubling:

Grand Theft Auto
Postal
Etc.

I played the original Doom long ago, but never found it troubling. Blowing up monsters....Heck..That's all American family fun.

Now the games where you play a criminal who is rewarded for walking up and stabbing a little old lady in the park, or for using a hooker and then killing her and taking your money back....

Now THAT disturbs me.

Quoted: Games I have found troubling: Grand Theft Auto Postal Etc. I played the original Doom long ago, but never found it troubling. Blowing up monsters....Heck..That's all American family fun. Now the games where you play a criminal who is rewarded for walking up and stabbing a little old lady in the park, or for using a hooker and then killing her and taking your money back.... Now THAT disturbs me.

Then You'd probably dislike Manhunt a whole bunch....

Quoted: Games I have found troubling: Grand Theft Auto Postal Etc. I played the original Doom long ago, but never found it troubling. Blowing up monsters....Heck..That's all American family fun. Now the games where you play a criminal who is rewarded for walking up and stabbing a little old lady in the park, or for using a hooker and then killing her and taking your money back.... Now THAT disturbs me.

Hey, Postal is all about choice...
You really don't have to kill that many people to get through the game...

Quoted: There is no question this is the most evil game I have ever played, and I feel incredibly slimed after playing through it. I really don't see any valuable aspect in playing this game, it's not fun. It literally eats away at you spiritually and really sucks you dry. I would highly recommend that anyone who professes themselves to be Christian NOT PLAY THIS GAME.

You've got to be fucking kidding me... He IS KILLING FUCKING DEMONS AND HE THINKS IT'S EVIL?!

I don't know about you, but I think Jesus would love the fact that you're vanquishing demons...

Quoted: Games I have found troubling: Grand Theft Auto Postal Etc. I played the original Doom long ago, but never found it troubling. Blowing up monsters....Heck..That's all American family fun. Now the games where you play a criminal who is rewarded for walking up and stabbing a little old lady in the park, or for using a hooker and then killing her and taking your money back.... Now THAT disturbs me.

Um, that's completely optional in the game. You can go through the entire game without killing an old lady. The fact that you did it and then looked upon it as a bad thing is quite hypocritical. "I abhor violence against old ladies... so I shot one in GTAIII." Huh?

Also, don't you remember you can be rewarded for GOOD in Grand Theft Auto? Drive an ambulance, get rewared. Drive a cop car, get rewarded. Drive a firetruck, get rewarded.

It's only violent against innocent people IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO INGAME.

well, it is the opinion of one person...but that one person got the news.
Just like Pat Robertson is one person...but he has a WHOLE lot of people that do what he says...just like many of the other "televangelists" who profit in the name of a god.

Like the guy I know from Pakistan that hates what people think of Islam cause they don't hear about the beliefs he has...just the beliefs of a few nuts.
The "religion of peace" is.....for a few.
Just as christianity is of a "loving god"...for a few.
Anyone wanna discuss that lunatic who runs "godhatesfags.com" and protests military funerals?

See my tagline, part 3.

No Expert

Quoted: Quoted: There is no question this is the most evil game I have ever played, and I feel incredibly slimed after playing through it. That game takes HOURS! He had to go all the way through it to feel incredibly slimed?

Ive played DOOM III all the way through and it actually gets repetative and a little boring toward the end. Actually have the expansion pack ,which Ill load this weekend and play it as well. The expansion pack does say "posses demonic powers to use agiainst the enemy", but then you get the double barreled shotgun too

Yeah...I thought it was kind of dull and repetitive as well.

Obviously some people can't differenciate between fantasy and the real world.  

Quoted: Um, that's completely optional in the game. You can go through the entire game without killing an old lady. The fact that you did it and then looked upon it as a bad thing is quite hypocritical. "I abhor violence against old ladies... so I shot one in GTAIII." Huh?

Oh for pete's sake......

Also, don't you remember you can be rewarded for GOOD in Grand Theft Auto? Drive an ambulance, get rewared. Drive a cop car, get rewarded. Drive a firetruck, get rewarded.

Assasinate people, get rewarded. Open up a porn studio, get rewarded. STEAL CARS, get rewarded. Use a hooker, get rewarded. Kill her, get rewarded. Rob people on the street, get rewarded. Cause a violent incident large enough to make live international news, get rewarded.

Do I need to continue?

BTW, you have to STEAL the ambulance and the cop car. And when in the cop car, you carry out vigilante killings.

It's only violent against innocent people IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO INGAME.

Yeah. Sure.

Quoted: Hey, Postal is all about choice... You really don't have to kill that many people to get through the game...

I don't know about the new versions, but the older version (that was released several years ago) forced you to kill everyone before you advanced through the level.

And let's just be honest: The point of Postal and games like it is carnage. Now a sane and reasonable adult probably isn't going to become an axe murderer if they play an hour or so of a game like that, but feeding your mind on wanton slaughter still isn't a good idea.

Never fear.  In the "Caliphate of the Land Between the Oceans" this discussion will not exist.  The imams will issue a fatwa and that will be it.

Enjoy your freedom to argue about stupid shit like this and bash Christianity - oh, wait, you'll still be able to do THAT (bash Christianity).

Morning, No_Expert,

I just read your post and just had to make a few comments.

Quoted: well, it is the opinion of one person...but that one person got the news.

Now, that's silly.

The fact that this guy made those statements about this game means only one thing......that is his personal opinion.  Nothing more.

Just like Pat Robertson is one person...but he has a WHOLE lot of people that do what he says...just like many of the other "televangelists" who profit in the name of a god.

Again, a silly statement.

While it is true that there are a lot of Christians that like to listen to Pat Robertson, if he ever said something like, "I am issuing a fatwa against Muslims and I want all my listeners to go out and kill all Muslims", the result would be exactly zero Christians doing what he said.

Why?  Because true Christians know that Jesus would never approve of such an act.

That is one of the main differences in Christians and followers of Islam.

Like the guy I know from Pakistan that hates what people think of Islam cause they don't hear about the beliefs he has...just the beliefs of a few nuts. The "religion of peace" is.....for a few.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this issue.

Just as christianity is of a "loving god"...for a few.

But you are wrong about this one.

No where in the Bible can you find God being discribed as other than a "loving God", because that is what He is.  And the New Testament demonstrates God's love by His sending our Savior, Jesus, the Perfect gift of love.

Anyone wanna discuss that lunatic who runs "godhatesfags.com" and protests military funerals?

I don't actually know too much about the guy you mention, but from what little I've heard, he is completely wrong in his beliefs.

But even so, he and his followers represent about .000001% of Christianity.  The vast majority of Christians are like me, in that we believe that homosexuality is wrong, but we love homosexuals and want them to come to our Savior and change their lives.

See my tagline, part 3. No Expert

I've seen it.  It says, "Over 10,000 different religions. Over 35,000 different Christian denominations. They all can't be right. But they all could be wrong. J. Tyrrell"

It means nothing.  He says they could be right, they could be wrong.  So what?

Some folks see a silly statement like this and are impressed and think that it has some "special meaning" that is "deep and thoughful".

Not really.  J. Tyrrell is wrong.  I've accepted Jesus as my Savior and He has come into my heart and life and I am 100% sure that He is everything that He promised to be to me.

If you don't believe, I will not try to force you to do so.  But you are missing out on the best thing in this life and the next, my friend.

playing it (in the dark with the lights out and the sound up - the way it was MEANT to be played) scared me multiple times over more than any "scary movie" i have ever watched.

scary movies have a few 'woah' moments, and thats it.  that game freaked me out.  

i know what one of those christians, but he quit playing the game cause it freaked him out too much



edit:  but hey, killing hellish deamons to save mankind does sound like a bad thing for someone who believes in both heaven and hell.  

The FSM approves of computer games.  He says they improve hand eye coordination.

Quoted: Oh for pete's sake......

Yeah, I wouldn't want to admit to public hypocrisy on ARFCOM either.

Assasinate people

Optional.

Open up a porn studio

Optional.

Use a hooker

Optional.

Kill her

Optional.

Rob people on the street

Not even possible, Mr. Thompson. But if it were, it'd be optional.

Cause a violent incident large enough to make live international news

Optional.

Do I need to continue?

Sure. Considering you're detesting the game for all the "evil and violent" things you can do it, you seem to have done them all.

BTW, you have to STEAL the ambulance and the cop car. And when in the cop car, you carry out vigilante killings.

THE NAME OF THE GAME IS "GRAND THEFT AUTO." If you were suprised that carjacking was in the game once you played it, you're a tad off the scales, friend.

Also, no shit. Your character isn't a cop, of course their vigilante killings, however you are still killing criminals and getting rewarded for it.

So far, your argument is pretty damn weak. "You can do it in game if you wish to, therefore the game is morally abhorant."

You're saying the exact same thing antis would say about guns. For shame you don't even realize it.

Yeah. Sure.

Sorry, but GTA rarely forces you to kill innocent civilians that aren't criminals or otherwise not-so-nice people.

And, the fact that you dislike all the horrible things in the game (yet still CHOOSE to do that...) pretty much destroys what little credibility you had.

I am a Pentecostal Christian ( not a very good one, but still... ) and I LOVE Doom and Quake....


I have never had a problem blasting demons.....

He should lay off the video games if they hurt him spiritually.

He should try something less visually intense, ... like a ouija board.

Hey, Postal is all about choice... You really don't have to kill that many people to get through the game...

Postal is funny ass shit
Play as gary coleman lol
Or shove a shot gun up a cats ass for a silencer.
im going to go download the demo again
Thanks im not board bored anymore

Quoted: Yeah, I wouldn't want to admit to public hypocrisy on ARFCOM either.

You need to quit being so silly.

I evaluated GTA Vice City for a parent in my church who was concerned because a relative gave the game to her teenage son.

Not even possible, Mr. Thompson. But if it were, it'd be optional.

I seem to recall that one of the ways to obtain money on the street is to beat people up or kill them until they drop money.

Sure. Considering you're detesting the game for all the "evil and violent" things you can do it, you seem to have done them all.

Or I could have just played the game for a bit, read the strategy guides and the numerous hints and tips online.....

But I don't suppose that possibility crossed your tiny little mind.

The only part of the game that I found remotely fun was doing the various stunts using the ramps at the Vice City airport....

THE NAME OF THE GAME IS "GRAND THEFT AUTO."

Precisely. Not a game kids should be playing.

If you were suprised that carjacking was in the game once you played it, you're a tad off the scales, friend.

Again, car theft didn't suprise me. Using hookers and then killing them to get your money back....or being rewarded for having the biggest shootout with the cops....THAT suprised me.

Also, no shit. Your character isn't a cop, of course their vigilante killings, however you are still killing criminals and getting rewarded for it. So far, your argument is pretty damn weak. "You can do it in game if you wish to, therefore the game is morally abhorant." You're saying the exact same thing antis would say about guns. For shame you don't even realize it.

When did I advocate a ban of GTA ANYWHERE in this thread? When did I say that nobody should be allowed to buy such a game?

You are so high on your own fumes that you are imagining a whole lot of stuff that I never said.

Kids shouldn't play games like GTA. I never said such things ought to be banned for adults, genius.  

Sorry, but GTA rarely forces you to kill innocent civilians that aren't criminals or otherwise not-so-nice people.

But it certainly rewards you for doing such things.

And, the fact that you dislike all the horrible things in the game (yet still CHOOSE to do that...) pretty much destroys what little credibility you had.

High on your own fumes again.

Just stop talking. You will look a lot smarter.

What is it with you gamer freaks that causes you to instantly begin foaming at the mouth the instant that someone points out that a game like GTA has morally questionable material in it? Unless someone is proposing to come and beat you up, shoot your dog, and take it away from YOU, why all the chicken little hysterics?

Cripes.

Quoted: Morning, No_Expert,

Hey O_P!

Quoted: I just read your post and just had to make a few comments. Quoted: well, it is the opinion of one person...but that one person got the news. Now, that's silly.

My point being that it is his personal opinion. I did say "the opinion of one person"...not that his opinion was that of christians in general, that would have been silly. If I read the game article right, the author of the article was FOR the game...as it shows all the evils that christianity is against, and the goal of the game is to defeat those evils. The guy against the game, was against it saying that it promoted those evils....which is silly. BUT, he made it in the article, hence he made the news. His personal opinion was made known and he presented it as a christian issue of belief. I am not silly enough to believe that his opinion is indicative of all christian believers.

Quoted: The fact that this guy made those statements about this game means only one thing......that is his personal opinion.  Nothing more. Just like Pat Robertson is one person...but he has a WHOLE lot of people that do what he says...just like many of the other "televangelists" who profit in the name of a god. Again, a silly statement.

Nope, but hasn't he come out against The Teletubbies cause one of the no sex organ having creatures, who happened to be purple with a triangular antennae and carried a "magic bag", was "gay"?
Hasn't he spoken out against disasters in the U.S. as his god's wrath against homosexuality and such?
Or am I thinking of the wrong televangelist?  They are hard to keep track of sometimes.

Unfortunately, I do believe that if he DID issue a "provlamation from his god" to go out and do something like your example below.... some of his followers would...and he knows it.

Quoted: While it is true that there are a lot of Christians that like to listen to Pat Robertson, if he ever said something like, "I am issuing a fatwa against Muslims and I want all my listeners to go out and kill all Muslims", the result would be exactly zero Christians doing what he said.

"True Christians".  Which flavor or variation? I'm not doubting you personally. I like you, have a lot of respect for you (cause you've never given me a reason not to), and most religious people are not the 10% that make all the problems. Be they of any religion.

Quoted: Why?  Because true Christians know that Jesus would never approve of such an act. That is one of the main differences in Christians and followers of Islam.

Now, see right here above, you paint all followers of islam in a light that you would not allow all followers of christ to be painted.

But that is what organized religion does. in most cases, to be a believer in your religion, you HAVE to discount other people's religion. That's why the quote says "they can't all be right".

Quoted: Like the guy I know from Pakistan that hates what people think of Islam cause they don't hear about the beliefs he has...just the beliefs of a few nuts. The "religion of peace" is.....for a few. I don't necessarily disagree with you on this issue.

So, there are peaceful followers of islam? They are not all raving war-mongers looking to behead an infidel?

Quoted: Just as christianity is of a "loving god"...for a few. But you are wrong about this one.

In your religion, or it's variant of, I am wtong about that statement if I had made it about you... unless I put you outside the few.
But also in the bible, there are many acts of horrendous violence done by and in the name of the christian god.
Plagues against the enemies of his followers? If there was only the one, true, christian god, then even those that oppose him would be his children...and he could surely protect his followers from his non-following children by means other than rampant destruction. Not to mention at what point did the god decide to layback and from now on just let his children go at it and no longer deserved his intervention?  

Quoted: No where in the Bible can you find God being discribed as other than a "loving God", because that is what He is.  And the New Testament demonstrates God's love by His sending our Savior, Jesus, the Perfect gift of love. Anyone wanna discuss that lunatic who runs "godhatesfags.com" and protests military funerals? I don't actually know too much about the guy you mention, but from what little I've heard, he is completely wrong in his beliefs.

We agree. But, that nutcase was in Michigan recently to protest a military funeral... his protesters, all 3 pf them, were drowned out by almost 300 motorcycle riders. His daughter wa on one of the local radio stations the weekend before, she wa a hoot to listen to. Check out their website, you will be disgusted... I absolutely guaranteee it. Cause according to him, you are wrong, as is everyone not in his church. He is a christian, of the baptist variety I believe, and it is people like him and many of the other thousands of variations of christianity that cause people like you problems, Frankly, I think the 35,000 versions is low by todays standards.

Quoted: But even so, he and his followers represent about .000001% of Christianity.  The vast majority of Christians are like me, in that we believe that homosexuality is wrong, but we love homosexuals and want them to come to our Savior and change their lives.

If you are saying the cvast majority are like you...(peace-loving) then I say good. I am a peace loving person, I don't want conflict, war, and the associated problems that stem from those. But, I am willing to acknowledge that those things happen, just hopefully not because one group's religious beliefs are different than anothers. But if you mean that you want everyone to come to your religion and change their life to meet the guidelines and rules of your religion... Why?

Quoted: See my tagline, part 3. No Expert I've seen it.  It says, "Over 10,000 different religions. Over 35,000 different Christian denominations. They all can't be right. But they all could be wrong. J. Tyrrell" It means nothing.  He says they could be right, they could be wrong.  So what?

It does mean something. He donesn't say they could be right. they can't ALL be right. that is the point. But, every one could be wrong...meaning NONE are right. \
EVERY religion that claims it is the ONLY right religion is wrong. cause there is no single religion that everyone that calls themselves a member of that religion can agree on.
Over 35,000 different flavors of christianity for example, just like the many flavors of islam... many do directly conflict with each other, many are simply there cause of off-shoots of others where they didn't like "a rule" or several there of.  Didn't the whole "Southern Baptist" thing come around cause they wanted to keep slaves? (correct me if I'm wrong there, but isn't that why during Clinton's Presidency they had the big "forgiveness" announcement?)
All organized religion, in order to protect itself, HAS to discount any other religion. Religious people I have known, are tolerant of other people's faith. Religions are typically not.  They can't be. If they promote another religion, they are saying that there is a chance that theirs is not the one and only correct one.  

Quoted: Some folks see a silly statement like this and are impressed and think that it has some "special meaning" that is "deep and thoughful".

It is special. You didn't read that it said that they can't ALL be right....yet every one typically says they are, and each and every one that does say they are right, and that the others are wrong, all have the same dedication and belief.  Take another look (or a first look) at the nut from godhatesfags.com, it will turn your stomach, and he has just as much, if not more, dedication to his christianity as you do, and I'd bet you two are polar opposites.

Quoted: Not really.  J. Tyrrell is wrong.  I've accepted Jesus as my Savior and He has come into my heart and life and I am 100% sure that He is everything that He promised to be to me. If you don't believe, I will not try to force you to do so.  But you are missing out on the best thing in this life and the next, my friend.

John might be...he'll be the first to admit it....but you can't. John Tyrrell is the founder of the Apathetic Agnostic "Church". Our belief is "we don't know...and we don't care". The Athiests have no more positive undeniable proof of no god as the religious have of positive undeniable proof of a god. And certainly no gods have come forth to set the record straight, so if there is a god, goddess, or gods, he, she, or they do not care about what's going on down here. Evidenced by the continued horrors being commited in the name of some god everyday, then we don't care about the "one and only right religion"... cause they ALL say that... and that is the reason for the quote.  They can't all be right..... but they can all be wrong.

I appreciate your statement that you will not try to force me to believe, that gives me even more respect for you AND your beliefs than I had before. Simply because so many religious people (and I'm not saying just christians..that would be silly) feel that they have to convert others at all costs. I respect your choice, (afterall it is a choice) of religion, please respect mine.

When we die, if you go to heaven ... great, you deserve to reap in your beliefs. If nothing happens and your body decomposes in the ground and you simply no longer exist in any form, corporeal, spirit, or otherwise, oh well. If I get judged after death by some being(s) that I didn't believe in existing, and that "loving god" decides to torment me for eternity in some form of hell for not believing in him, her, them... then they must have some strange definition of loving their children.

I'll end off here, please excuse any typos.  We still get to go shooting together if I'm ever in the neighborhood right?

No Expert