F-4 Phantom (1960s and '70s)

F-14 Tomcat (1970s, '80s, and '90s)

F-18 Super Hornet (1990s-present)

Poll coming.

Finally I am the first one to vote!
FTP

What you are positing doesn't make sense. You ask what the best for its era then only show one aircraft for each era. If my choice for the 60s is aircraft A and no other, then how can I choose? What is the best aircraft for its era, the F18 or????? Or what?

Don't forget the A6!

Quoted: What you are positing doesn't make sense. You ask what the best for its era then only show one aircraft for each era. If my choice for the 60s is aircraft A and no other, then how can I choose? What is the best aircraft for its era, the F18 or????? Or what?

Was the F-4 better in its era than the F-14 during the '80s and '90s?

In other words, we all know that newer machines generally are better machines (otherwise we'd still be flying Corsairs and Mustangs). So, to make it fair, rather than comparing the three aircraft head-to-head,  I'm basically asking, was the Navy better off with F-4s in the '60s and '70s, with F-14s in the '80s and '90s, or the F-18 today?

Why compare apples to oranges?  The F-4 and F/A-18 are a valid comparison, but the F-14 has nothing in common with either.  The "bombcat" variant was a joke compared to the ground attack abilities of the other two, and it came long after the "era" of the F-14 was over.  Why not have a poll comparing the B-52 to the F-15E, it would be about as valid.  

Quoted: Why compare apples to oranges?  The F-4 and F/A-18 are a valid comparison, but the F-14 has nothing in common with either.  The "bombcat" variant was a joke compared to the ground attack abilities of the other two, and it came long after the "era" of the F-14 was over.  Why not have a poll comparing the B-52 to the F-15E, it would be about as valid.

Then I guess it's safe to say you won't be voting for the the Tomcat.

I have no technical knowledge on this issue.

But I like the F4.

Quoted: I have no technical knowledge on this issue. But I like the F4.

+1

F-4 is a good multi-role aircraft, and looks cool, but it is slaughtered in the ground attack role by the Buccaneers.

NTM

If the F4 engines had just smoked....................




5sub

Quoted: F-4 is a good multi-role aircraft, and looks cool, but it is slaughtered in the ground attack role by the Buccaneers.

Eh?

Quoted: If the F4 engines had just smoked....

What do you mean by this?

Quoted: Quoted: If the F4 engines had just smoked.... What do you mean by this?

The F4's engines trailed smoke which was hated by the pilots (and weapons officers).




5sub

AC-130

F-8 Crusader      

super bug.  no other carrier based jet, and only a few land based jets on earth can touch it.  no other jet on the list had that kind of supeority compared to the rest of the world

One of the more interesting polls I've seen posted here, but this is a tough one to determine...

Quoted: super bug.  no other carrier based jet, and only a few land based jets on earth can touch it.  no other jet on the list had that kind of supeority compared to the rest of the world

You're saying that the F-4 was less superior in the '60s and '70s than the Super Bug is today?

The F-4 could soak up tremendous amounts of damage.  A lowly fucking SAM brought down a Super Hornet in "Behind Enemy Lines", the F-4 woulda, shrugged that shit off, and atleast got its pilots "feet wet".

The F-4 series, put more smoke on badguys, brought down more fighters, and has stayed aloft, longer than any other fighter.  When/If the Super Hornet gets to 50, while still in service, then I might reconsider, but I still dont see it bringing down the number of aircraft, and dropping the amount of ordinance.

A-4

I wonder how many kills worldwide the F-4 series has to its credit.

Between the US, Israel, Germany, and other, its gotta be in the 300-500 range, atleast.

CFII, git yur ass in here.

F-14  

Two words  -Phoenix missile

Quoted: F-8 Crusader

+1 for the last gunfighter.

You're all off target. The single most greatest carrier born fighter to be flown by the US Navy is the Grumman HELLCAT.  The kill numbers it put up were incredible. I would have to poke around to find it but I think KILL wise it did better than any other fighter of the war. More poking but if memory serves I also saw somewhere it got 2/3rds of ALL kills in the pacific. There are a couple of myths about this aircraft. One was it was designed to counter the Japenese Zero. Not true. It was on the drawing board already when the performance of the German planes became apparent. Another myth was that the corsair was faster. This one remains very popular today. Both were about the same size, weight, and had the same engine and propeller. But somehow no one seems to question why the corsair had a listed speed of 417mph and the hellcat only 386. The Navy delivered a corsair to Grumman and  told them to make up the speed difference during the war. Grumman found that the two planes utilized different air speed indicating systems. When both planes were in stabilized formation flying at the EXACT SAME SPEED the corsair airspeed indicater always showed a 22 knot advantage. So, they utilized the same airspeed indicating system found on the corsair and lo and behold no more 22 knot advantage. Since they did not make a public service announcement, to this day everyone "knows" the Corsair was faster. Nicknames for the Hellcat were, THE GRINNING MONSTER, and , THE ACE MAKER...Hog  

Quoted: You're all off target...

No, we just read all of the words in the poll. (Hint: Of it's era!)

Quoted: Quoted: F-4 is a good multi-role aircraft, and looks cool, but it is slaughtered in the ground attack role by the Buccaneers. Eh?

Blackburn Buccanneer: Banana Bomber.

Kindof the British counterpart to the A-6 Intruder, but better. Carrier-borne bomber known for a massively long range and superior low-level flying abilities. Only used by Brits and South Africans. Withdrawn in the 1990s.

NTM

For its "era", in this case World War II, the Grumman Hellcat was the most influential fighter.  Take a look at the numbers in the Fleet, the huge numbers of Japanese aircraft destroyed by Hellcat pilots and the overall effect on the Japanese and you will see why I picked that weapon system over all the others.

Not to say they aren't all very good...but the Hellcat REALLY did the job.

And yes...I know you only mentioned "jets"...but I picked the big Hellcat anyway.  

Grumman F6F Hellcat read below:

History: After early US Navy experience in the Pacific in the early months of WWII, and after consultation with Allied air forces in the European theater, Grumman began to develop a successor to their Wildcat fighter, to be called the Hellcat. Major design changes from the Wildcat included a low-mounted wing, wider landing gear which retracted into the wings, more powerful engine, improved cockpit armor plating, and increased ammunition capacity.

The Navy ordered four prototypes of the new airplane, each with a different engine for test and evaluation purposes. Less than a year later, on 26 June 1942, the first prototype (the XF6F-1, with a Wright R-2600 Cyclone engine) flew for the first time. Before much meaningful evaluation of the various engines could be made, however, the Navy decided to press the Hellcat into production by fitting the XF6F-1 prototype with the most powerful engine available, the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp. (This turned it into an XF6F-3. The XF6F-2 and XF6F-4 were never evaluated.)

The first production model, the F6F-3, first flew in October 1942, and deliveries began four months later with squadron VF-9 on the USS Essex in the Pacific. Extremely robust, powerful and maneuverable, the Hellcat was a potent force against the Japanese, and was credited with over three-quarters of the US Navy's air-to-air kills in the war.

The UK's Fleet Air Arm received 252 F6F-3s (designated Gannet Mk I) beginning in 1943. Meanwhile, in the US, over 200 Hellcats were modified as radar-equipped night fighters. During the F6F-3 production run, which lasted until April 1944, Grumman had developed an improved Hellcat, the F6F-5, which utilized a redesigned engine cowl, new ailerons, a strengthened tail, and a water-injection system for the engine, which added 10% to the takeoff performance and increased its armament-carrying capabilities. The F6F-5 was first flown on 4 April 1944, and production continued through November 1945. Over 900 more "Dash-5" Hellcats were delivered to the UK under the Lend-Lease program under the designation Hellcat Mk II.

Nicknames: Ace-Maker

Specifications (F6F-5):
   Engine: 2000hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10W Double Wasp 18-cylinder radial piston engine
   Weight: Empty 9150 lbs., Max Takeoff 15,410 lbs.
   Wing Span: 42ft. 10in.
   Length: 33ft. 7in.
   Height: 13ft. 6in.
   Performance:
       Maximum Speed at 23,500 ft: 380mph
       Cruising Speed at 6,000 ft: 168mph
       Ceiling: 37,300 ft
       Range: 1,530 miles with 150-gallon drop tank
   Armament:
       Six 12.7mm (0.5 inch) wing-mounted machine guns
       Two 1,000-lb bombs, or six 127mm (5-inch) rockets

Number Built: 12,275

Number Still Airworthy:  7  This is a true shame

A4

The Mighty EP-3E ARIES has more kills than the F-18E/F...  so I chose other


Top_Prop
(former EP-3E driver)

Quoted: You're all off target. The single most greatest carrier born fighter to be flown by the US Navy is the Grumman HELLCAT.  The kill numbers it put up were incredible. I would have to poke around to find it but I think KILL wise it did better than any other fighter of the war. More poking but if memory serves I also saw somewhere it got 2/3rds of ALL kills in the pacific. There are a couple of myths about this aircraft. One was it was designed to counter the Japenese Zero. Not true. It was on the drawing board already when the performance of the German planes became apparent. Another myth was that the corsair was faster. This one remains very popular today. Both were about the same size, weight, and had the same engine and propeller. But somehow no one seems to question why the corsair had a listed speed of 417mph and the hellcat only 386. The Navy delivered a corsair to Grumman and  told them to make up the speed difference during the war. Grumman found that the two planes utilized different air speed indicating systems. When both planes were in stabilized formation flying at the EXACT SAME SPEED the corsair airspeed indicater always showed a 22 knot advantage. So, they utilized the same airspeed indicating system found on the corsair and lo and behold no more 22 knot advantage. Since they did not make a public service announcement, to this day everyone "knows" the Corsair was faster. Nicknames for the Hellcat were, THE GRINNING MONSTER, and , THE ACE MAKER...Hog

I guess I could point out 417-386= a number greater than 22 knots. Aerodynamics plays a role in top speed.

Also I kinda doubt the same propeller theory is true. Why does the Corsair have the "gull wings"?

Quoted: Also I kinda doubt the same propeller theory is true. Why does the Corsair have the "gull wings"?

Ground clearance for the big prop, isn't it?

NTM

Yup, that hog guy musta been a space shuttle doorgunner.

The F-4 could soak up tremendous amounts of damage. A lowly fucking SAM brought down a Super Hornet in "Behind Enemy Lines", the F-4 woulda, shrugged that shit off, and atleast got its pilots "feet wet".

Behind enemy lines was a fucking movie. SAM's brought down plenty of F-4's.

I'm partial to the looks of the A-4 but I gotta go with the F-14. It was the top in it's time.

The F-4 was not the best jet in its era.

F4. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.


The F14 has never been truly tested, and never will.

The F18 is a fine aircraft, but its not the phantom.


Long live the Phantom II.

Quoted: Yup, that hog guy musta been a space shuttle doorgunner. The F-4 could soak up tremendous amounts of damage. A lowly fucking SAM brought down a Super Hornet in "Behind Enemy Lines", the F-4 woulda, shrugged that shit off, and atleast got its pilots "feet wet". Behind enemy lines was a fucking movie. SAM's brought down plenty of F-4's. I'm partial to the looks of the A-4 but I gotta go with the F-14. It was the top in it's time. The F-4 was not the best jet in its era.

What was the best all around carrier borne jet from the late 50s to early 70s then?  

Quoted: Yup, that hog guy musta been a space shuttle doorgunner. The F-4 could soak up tremendous amounts of damage. A lowly fucking SAM brought down a Super Hornet in "Behind Enemy Lines", the F-4 woulda, shrugged that shit off, and atleast got its pilots "feet wet". Behind enemy lines was a fucking movie. SAM's brought down plenty of F-4's. I'm partial to the looks of the A-4 but I gotta go with the F-14. It was the top in it's time. The F-4 was not the best jet in its era.

Its a fucking joke.  BEL is one of the movies that arfcommers love to make fun of, hence why I put it in my post.

Anywho, my thoughts on the F4 still stands.  They could take lots of battle damage, and either bring its crew home, or, in the Navy's case, get them to the safety of the ocean.

Of course SAMs brought down F4s, did you ever think of the technoloigy gap?  As CFII said, the F-14 was never truly tested in ferocious air to air or ground combat, and chances are, the F-18E never will either.

Air Superiority
Intercepter
Fleet Defender
Tactical Bomber
CoIn
Recon
CAP
WW/Ironhand
Air Support
Anti-Shipping

I'm sure there are others, but I cant thnk of anymore.

My vote goes to the F-4...

What was the best all around carrier borne jet from the late 50s to early 70s then?

When judging carrier borne aircraft of an era you have to judge it against its competition, such as other aircraft of the era it might go up against and not necessarily carrier borne.

The F-14 was better than all of its competition, the F-4 was not.

The F-14 was tested in combat in GW1. It so outclassed its rivals it wasn't much of a competition and the bad guys knew to stay on the ground or run for Turkey.

Anyone that has seen Top Gun can answer this easy enough...

F14

Quoted: What was the best all around carrier borne jet from the late 50s to early 70s then? When judging carrier borne aircraft of an era you have to judge it against its competition, such as other aircraft of the era it might go up against and not necessarily carrier borne. The F-14 was better than all of its competition, the F-4 was not. The F-14 was tested in combat in GW1. It so outclassed its rivals it wasn't much of a competition and the bad guys knew to stay on the ground or run for Turkey.

Please answer my question, what jet from that era was better?  The F-14 could be spanked all day long by the Mig-29 and SU-27 in air combat.  It couldn't even do ground attack at all during its "era".  We built 5000 F-4s, more than ANY other modern aircraft (since the F-86).  This poll was about the best ALL AROUND aircraft, the F-14 was a fleet defense interceptor only, not multi-role.  

Quoted: Anyone that has seen Top Gun can answer this easy enough... F14

And thats exactly where all the F-14 votes are coming from.    Who is the toughest buy in the world?  Chuck Norris of course.  

Quoted: F-14   Two words  -Phoenix missile

Four words...

Never used in combat.

The Mig 21 and Mig 17 were more maneuverable and had heavy cannon. The Phantom was outclassed and only the superb US pilots made up the difference.

The F-14 had advanced avionics and weapon systems which made it superior to the SU-27 and Mig 29.

Quoted: Quoted: F-14   Two words  -Phoenix missile Four words... Never used in combat.

And another two...can't maneuver.  

Quoted: The Mig 21 and Mig 17 were more maneuverable and had heavy cannon. The Phantom was outclassed and only the superb US pilots made up the difference.

They also had no radar guided missiles, and couldn't fly in all weather.  Nor did they have any ground attack or in flight refueling capability.  The F-4 had a much better climb rate, and better missiles, not to mention a vastly superior radar.  Here are how "outclassed" we were in Vietnam:

Date      Pilot                Aircraft Service Weapon       Kill   Country    Source
04-Apr-65 Kilgus                F-100D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
04-Apr-65 Unknown               F-105   USAF                 MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
04-Apr-65 Unknown               F-105   USAF                 MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
09-Apr-65 Terence Murphy        F-4B    USN     AIM-7        MiG-17 PR China
          Ronald Fegan                  USN
17-Jun-65 Louis Page            F-4B    USN     AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Smith                    USN
17-Jun-65 Jack Batson Jr.       F-4B    USN     AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Doremus                USN
20-Jun-65 Clint Johnson         A-1H    USN     Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charlie Hartman       A-1H    USN     Cannon       Shared
10-Jul-65 Kenneth Holcombe      F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Arthur Clark                  USAF
10-Jul-65 Thomas Roberts        F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Ronald Anderson               USAF
20-Jul-65 Unknown               F-4     Unknown              MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
          Unknown                       Unknown
20-Jul-65 Unknown               F-4     Unknown              MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
          Unknown                       Unknown
06-Oct-65 Dan McIntyre          F-4B    USN                  MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Alan Johnson                  USN
23-Apr-66 Robert Blake          F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          S.W. George                   USAF
23-Apr-66 Max Cameron           F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Evans                  USAF
26-Apr-66 Paul Gilmore          F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Smith                 USAF
29-Apr-66 William Dowell        F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Halbert Gossard               USAF
29-Apr-66 Larry Keith           F-4C    USAF    Maneouvre    MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Bleakly                USAF
30-Apr-66 Lawrence Golberg      F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Gerald Hardgrave              USAF
12-May-66 Wilbur Dudley         F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Imants Kringelis              USAF
12-May-66 Unknown               F-105D  USAF                 MiG-17 PR China   Michel
12-Jun-66 Harold Marr           F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
12-Jun-66 Harold Marr           F-8E    USN     Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Michel
21-Jun-66 Eugene Chancy         F-8E    USN     Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
21-Jun-66 Phillip Vampatella    F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
29-Jun-66 Fred Tracy            F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
13-Jul-66 William McQuigan      F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Fowler                 USN
14-Jul-66 William Swender       F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Duane Buttell Jr.             USAF
14-Jul-66 Ronald Martin         F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Richard Krieps                USAF
18-Aug-66 Kenneth Blank         F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
16-Sep-66 Jerry Jameson         F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Douglas Rose                  USAF
21-Sep-66 Karl Richter          F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
21-Sep-66 Fred Wilson           F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
09-Oct-66 Richard Bellinger     F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
09-Oct-66 William Patton        A-1H    USN     Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
05-Nov-66 James Tuck            F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Rabeni Jr.               USAF
05-Nov-66 Wilbur Latham         F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Klaus Klause                  USAF
04-Dec-66 Roy Dickey            F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
11-Dec-66 Unknown               F-4C    USAF                 MiG-17 PR China
          Unknown                       USAF
20-Dec-66 Dennis Wisely         F-4B    USN     AIM-7        An-2   N. Vietnam Drendel
          David Jordan                  USN
20-Dec-66 David McCrae          F-4B    USN     AIM-7        An-2   N. Vietnam Drendel
          David Nichols                 USN
02-Jan-67 Robin Olds            F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles Clifton               USAF
02-Jan-67 Walter Radecker III   F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Murray III              USAF
02-Jan-67 Everett Raspberry Jr. F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Western                USAF
02-Jan-67 Ralph Wetterhahn      F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jerry Sharp                   USAF
02-Jan-67 Philip Combies        F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Lee Dutton                    USAF
02-Jan-67 John Stone            F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Clifton Dunnegan Jr.          USAF
02-Jan-67 Lawrence Glynn Jr.    F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Lawrence Cary                 USAF
06-Jan-67 Thomas Hirsch         F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Roger Strasswimmer            USAF
06-Jan-67 Richard Pascoe        F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Norman Wells                  USAF
10-Mar-67 Max Brestel           F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
10-Mar-67 Max Brestel           F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
26-Mar-67 Robert Scott          F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-Apr-67 Jack Hunt             F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-Apr-67 Leo Thorsness         F-105F  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Harold Johnson                USAF
19-Apr-67 Frederick Tolman      F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-Apr-67 William Eskew         F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
23-Apr-67 Robert Anderson       F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Fred Kjer                     USAF
24-Apr-67 Dennis Wisely         F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Gareth Anderson               USN
24-Apr-67 Charles Southwick     F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Laing                   USN
26-Apr-67 Rolland Moore Jr.     F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Sears                   USAF
28-Apr-67 Arthur Dennis         F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
28-Apr-67 Harry Higgins         F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
30-Apr-67 Thomas Lesan          F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
01-May-67 Marshall Wright       F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
01-May-67 Theodore Swartz       A-4C    USN     Zuni         MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
01-May-67 Robert Dilger         F-4C    USAF    Maneouvre    MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Mack Thies                    USAF
04-May-67 Robin Olds            F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Lefever               USAF
12-May-67 Jacques Suzanne       F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
13-May-67 William Kirk          F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stephen Wayne                 USAF
13-May-67 Fred Haeffner         F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Michael Bever                 USAF
13-May-67 Philip Gast           F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
13-May-67 Carl Osborne          F-105D  USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
13-May-67 Robert Rilling        F-105D  USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
13-May-67 Maurice Seaver Jr.    F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
13-May-67 Charles Couch         F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
14-May-67 Samuel Bakke          F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Lambert                USAF
14-May-67 James Hargrove Jr.    F-4C    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stephen Demuth                USAF
14-May-67 James Craig Jr.       F-4C    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Talley                  USAF
19-May-67 Paul Speer            F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-May-67 Joesph Shea           F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-May-67 Bobby Lee             F-8C    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-May-67 Phillip Wood          F-8C    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
20-May-67 Robert Janca          F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Roberts Jr.           USAF
20-May-67 Robert Titus          F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Milan Zimer                   USAF
20-May-67 John Pardo            F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stephen Wayne                 USAF
20-May-67 Robin Olds            F-4C    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stephen Croker                USAF
20-May-67 Robin Olds            F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stephen Croker                USAF
20-May-67 Philip Combies        F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Daniel Lafferty               USAF
22-May-67 Robert Titus          F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Milan Zimer                   USAF
22-May-67 Robert Titus          F-4C    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Milan Zimer                   USAF
03-Jun-67 Ralph Kuster          F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
03-Jun-67 Larry Wiggins         F-105D  USAF    AIM-9/Cannon MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
05-Jun-67 Durwood Priester      F-4C    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Pankhurst                USAF
05-Jun-67 Richard Pascoe        F-4C    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Norman Wells                  USAF
05-Jun-67 Everett Raspberry Jr. F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Francis Gullick               USAF
21-Jul-67 Marion Isaacks        F-8C    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
21-Jul-67 Robert Kirkwood       F-8C    USN     Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
21-Jul-67 Ray Hubbard           F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
21-Jul-67 Phil Dempewolf        F-8C    USN     Zuni/Cannon  MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
10-Aug-67 Guy Freeborn          F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Elliot                 USN
10-Aug-67 Robert Davis          F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Gayle Elie                    USN
23-Aug-67 David Waldrop III     F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
23-Aug-67 David Waldrop III     F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
18-Oct-67 Ronald Russell        F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
24-Oct-67 William Kirk          F-4D    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Theodore Bongartz             USAF
26-Oct-67 Robert Hickey         F-4B    USN     AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jeremy Morris                 USN
26-Oct-67 Larry Cobb            F-4D    USAF    AIM-4        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Alan Lavoy                    USAF
26-Oct-67 William Gordon III    F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Monsees                 USAF
26-Oct-67 John Logeman Jr.      F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Frederick McCoy II            USAF
27-Oct-67 Gene Basel            F-105D  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
30-Oct-67 Eugene Lund           F-4B    USN     AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Borst                   USN
06-Nov-67 Darell Simmonds       F-4D    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          George McKinney Jr.           USAF
06-Nov-67 Darell Simmonds       F-4D    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          George McKinney Jr.           USAF
14-Dec-67 Richard Wyman         F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
17-Dec-67 Doyle Baker           F-4D    USMC    AIM-4        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Ryan Jr.                 USAF
19-Dec-67 Philip Drew           F-105F  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Wheeler               USAF
19-Dec-67 William Dalton        F-105F  USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Graham                  USAF
          Joseph Moore          F-4D    USAF    Cannon       Shared
          George McKinney Jr.           USAF
03-Jan-68 Clayton Squier        F-4D    USAF    AIM-4        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Michael Muldoon               USAF
03-Jan-68 Bernard Bogoslofski   F-4D    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Richard Huskey                USAF
12-Jan-68 Unknown               UH-1    CIA     Gunfire      An-2   N. Vietnam
12-Jan-68 Unknown               UH-1    CIA     Gunfire      An-2   N. Vietnam
18-Jan-68 Kenneth Simonet       F-4D    USAF    AIM-4        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Wayne Smith                   USAF
05-Feb-68 Robert Hill           F-4D    USAF    AIM-4        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Bruce Huneke                  USAF
06-Feb-68 Robert Boles          F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Battista               USAF
12-Feb-68 Alfred Lang Jr.       F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Randy Moss                    USAF
14-Feb-68 David Williams Jr.    F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Feighny Jr.             USAF
14-Feb-68 Rex Howerton          F-4D    USAF    Cannon       MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Ted Voigt II                  USAF
09-May-68 Jack Hefferman        F-4J    USN                  MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Frank Schumacher              USN
26-Jun-68 Lowell Myers          F-8H    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
09-Jul-68 John Nichols          F-8E    USN     AIM-9/Cannon MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
10-Jul-68 Roy Cash              F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Joesph Cain                   USN
19-Jul-68 Unknown               Unknown Unknown AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
29-Jul-68 Guy Cane              F-8E    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
01-Aug-68 Norman McCoy          F-8H    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
19-Sep-68 Anthony Nargi         F-8C    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
28-Mar-70 Jerome Beaulier       F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Steven Barkley                USN
19-Jan-72 Randall Cunningham    F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Driscoll              USN
21-Feb-72 Robert Lodge          F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Roger Locher                  USAF
01-Mar-72 Joesph Kittinger Jr.  F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Leigh Hodgdon                 USAF
06-Mar-72 Garry Weigand         F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Freckleton            USN
30-Mar-72 Fredrick Olmstead Jr. F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Gerald Volloy                 USAF
16-Apr-72 Unknown               B-52    USAF    .50 cal      MiG-21 N. Vietnam Toperczer
16-Apr-72 Edward Cherry         F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jeffrey Feinstein             USAF
16-Apr-72 James Null            F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Michael Vahue                 USAF
16-Apr-72 Fredrick Olmstead Jr. F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stuart Maas                   USAF
06-May-72 Jerry Houston         F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Kevin Moore                   USN
06-May-72 Bob Hughes            F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Adolph Cruz                   USN
06-May-72 Kenneth Pettigrew     F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Michael McCabe                USN
08-May-72 Randall Cunningham    F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Willaim Driscoll              USN
08-May-72 Barton Crews          F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Keith Jones Jr.               USAF
08-May-72 Robert Lodge          F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Roger Locher                  USAF
10-May-72 Michael Connelly      F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Thomas Blonski                USN
10-May-72 Michael Connelly      F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Thomas Blonski                USN
10-May-72 Steven Shoemaker      F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Keith Crenshaw                USN
10-May-72 Randall Cunningham    F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Willaim Driscoll              USN
10-May-72 Randall Cunningham    F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Willaim Driscoll              USN
10-May-72 Randall Cunningham    F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Willaim Driscoll              USN
10-May-72 Ken Cannon            F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Roy Morris                    USN
10-May-72 Curt Dose             F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James McDevitt                USN
10-May-72 Richard Ritchie       F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles DeBellevue            USAF
10-May-72 Robert Lodge          F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Roger Locher                  USAF
10-May-72 John Markle           F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stephen Eaves                 USAF
11-May-72 Steve Nichols         F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Bell                    USAF
12-May-72 Wayne Frye            F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Cooney                  USAF
18-May-72 Henry Bartholomay     F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Oran Brown                    USN
18-May-72 Patrick Arwood        F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Bell                    USN
23-May-72 Ronald McKeown        F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Ensch                    USN
23-May-72 Ronald McKeown        F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Ensch                    USN
23-May-72 Lyle Beckers          F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Huwe                     USAF
23-May-72 James Beatty Jr.      F-4E    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Sumner                  USAF
31-May-72 Bruce Leonard Jr.     F-4E    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jeffrey Feinstein             USAF
31-May-72 Richard Ritchie       F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Lawrence Pettit               USAF
02-Jun-72 Philip Handley        F-4E    USAF    Cannon       MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Smallwood                USAF
11-Jun-72 Foster Teague         F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Ralph Howell                  USN
11-Jun-72 Winston Copeland      F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Donald Bouchoux               USN
21-Jun-72 Samuel Flynn          F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William John                  USN
21-Jun-72 Von Christiansen      F-4E    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Kaye Harden                   USAF
08-Jul-72 Richard Hardy         F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Paul Lewinski                 USAF
08-Jul-72 Richard Ritchie       F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles DeBellevue            USAF
08-Jul-72 Richard Ritchie       F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles DeBellevue            USAF
11-Jul-72 Unknown               F-4     Unknown              MiG-17 N. Vietnam Toperczer
          Unknown                       Unknown
18-Jul-72 Carl Baily            F-4D    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jeffrey Feinstein             USAF
19-Jul-72 Unknown               F-4     Unknown              MiG-21 N. Vietnam Toperczer
          Unknown                       Unknown
29-Jul-72 Carl Baily            F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jeffrey Feinstein             USAF
29-Jul-72 Gene Taft             F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stanley Imaye                 USAF
08-Aug-72 Unknown               Unknown Unknown              MiG-21 N. Vietnam Toperczer
08-Aug-72 Unknown               Unknown Unknown              MiG-21 N. Vietnam Toperczer
10-Aug-72 Robert Tucker         F-4J    USN     AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Stanley Edens                 USN
12-Aug-72 Lawrence Richard      F-4E    USMC    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Michael Ettel                 USN
15-Aug-72 Fred Sheffler         F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Mark Massen                   USAF
19-Aug-72 Sammy White           F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Frank Bettine                 USAF
28-Aug-72 Richard Ritchie       F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles DeBellevue            USAF
02-Sep-72 Jon Lucas             F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Douglas Malloy                USAF
09-Sep-72 Calvin Tibbett        F-4E    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Hargrove              USAF
09-Sep-72 John Madden Jr.       F-4D    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles DeBellevue            USAF
09-Sep-72 John Madden Jr.       F-4D    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Charles DeBellevue            USAF
11-Sep-72 Lee Lassiter          F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Cummings                 USN
12-Sep-72 Lyle Beckers          F-4E    USAF    AIM-9/Cannon MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Thomas Griffin                USAF
12-Sep-72 Gary Retterbush       F-4E    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Daniel Autrey                 USAF
12-Sep-72 Michael Mahaffey      F-4D    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          George Shields                USAF
16-Sep-72 Calvin Tibbett        F-4E    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Hargrove              USAF
05-Oct-72 Richard Coe           F-4E    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Omri Webb III                 USAF
06-Oct-72 Gordon Clouser        F-4E    USAF    Maneouvre    MiG-19 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Cecil Brunson                 USAF
          Charles Barton        F-4E    USAF    Maneouvre    Shared N. Vietnam Drendel
          George Watson                 USAF
08-Oct-72 Gary Retterbush       F-4E    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Robert Jasperson              USAF
12-Oct-72 John Madden Jr.       F-4D    USAF    Maneouvre    MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Lawrence Pettit               USAF
13-Oct-72 Curtis Westphal       F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Jeffrey Feinstein             USAF
15-Oct-72 Gary Rubus            F-4E    USAF    Cannon       MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Hendrickson             USAF
15-Oct-72 Robert Holtz          F-4E    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          William Diehl                 USAF
15-Oct-72 Ivy McCoy Jr.         F-4D    USAF    AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Fredrick Brown                USAF
18-Dec-72 Samuel Turner         B-52D   USAF    .50 cal      MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
21-Dec-72 Gary Sholders         F-4D    USAF    Maneouvre    MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Eldon Brinkley                USAF
22-Dec-72 James Brunson         F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Ralph Pickett                 USAF
24-Dec-72 Albert Moore          B-52D   USAF    .50 cal      MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
28-Dec-72 Scott Davis           F-4J    USN     AIM-9        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Geoffrey Ulrich               USN
28-Dec-72 Harry McKee Jr.       F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          John Dubler                   USAF
07-Jan-73 Paul Howman           F-4D    USAF    AIM-7        MiG-21 N. Vietnam Drendel
          Lawrence Kullman              USAF
12-Jan-73 Victor Kovaleski      F-4B    USN     AIM-9        MiG-17 N. Vietnam Drendel
          James Wise                    USN

Please post all the air to air kills the F-14 has.  

As I said the F-4 was helped by having better trained pilots than the North Vietnamese. Just as the Flying Tigers were.

The F-14 was combat tested but never was involved in a large scale long war, partly because of its superiority over the new battlefields and the improvement of the capability of air power to affect the ground war.

Also all the gadgets you attribute ot the F-4 were not reliable back then.

Quoted: Also all the gadgets you attribute ot the F-4 were not reliable back then.

Look at the list of victories above.  Over 90% of them are missile kills, AIM-7 and AIM-9.  The USAF E models had cannons from 68-on and they hardly ever even used them.  The F-14's claim to fame, the Phoenix missile, was never even used.  They used AIM-7s and AIM-9s for all of their ata kills too.  What roles did the F-14 excel at that makes it a good "all around" aircraft?  Wild Weasel, Ground Attack, Recon (yes, with the TARPs pod), FAC, CAS?  Nope, it was a one trick pony.  It may be pretty, but if we judged an airplanes merit based solely on looks, the F-16 would be the greatest airplane of all time.  Both the "ugly" F-4 and the homely F-18 are great multi-role fighters (both still in service, incidentally).  The F-14 just can't compare.  

Quoted: The F-14 was combat tested but never was involved in a large scale long war, partly because of its superiority over the new battlefields and the improvement of the capability of air power to affect the ground war.

1980-1988 doesn't count as a large scale long war? What the hell does? Iranians claim 60-65 Iraqi kills with AIM-54 out of the 285 missiles supplied.

US combat use of Phoenix was 0 hits out of two shots.

NTM