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Posted: 3/31/2006 10:56:16 AM EDT
* The most interesting Crusader offshoot was the "XF8U-3 Crusader III", which was really an entirely new aircraft with no more than a conceptual relationship to the original Crusader design. While the F8U-3 had a clear resemblance to its ancestor, it was a much more rakish machine, with a barracuda-like nose and large ventral fins that folded horizontally for takeoff and landing. It was also bigger and more muscular in appearance than the Crusader.
The XF8U-3 was conceived in 1955 as a high-performance interceptor, and was designed in competition with the McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom. The first example was flown in June 1958 with John Konrad at the controls, and was powered by a Pratt & Whitney J75-P-5A turbojet with 73.4 kN (7,480 kgp / 16,500 lbf) dry thrust and 131.2 kN (13,380 kgp / 29,500 lbf) afterburning thrust. Performance and handling were judged as excellent. The test pilots also appreciated the aircraft's advanced avionics, including an experimental "head up display", and its very roomy cockpit.  Initially, the XF8U-3 was to be armed only with three Sparrow III missiles, though an alternate armament of four Sidewinders was contemplated later. No cannon armament was ever considered. The wing was fitted with a drooping leading edge, along with long-extension flaps, and a BLC system was incorporated to improve landing characteristics. CHANCE-VOUGHT XF8U-3 CRUSADER III: _____________________ _________________ _______________________ spec metric english _____________________ _________________ _______________________ wingspan 12.16 meters 39 feet 11 inches wing area 41.80 sq_meters 450 sq_feet length 17.88 meters 58 feet 8 inches height 4.98 meters 16 feet 4 inches empty weight 9,920 kilograms 21,860 pounds loaded weight 17,590 kilograms 38,770 pounds max speed at altitude 2,350 KPH 1,460 MPH / 1,270 KT range 3,290 kilometers 2,050 MI / 1,780 NMI _____________________ _________________ _______________________ Vought received an initial contract for two XF8U-3s in May 1957, followed by a second contract for 16 evaluation aircraft, but only three Crusader IIIs were completed. The Navy selected the Phantom and cancelled the contract with Vought in December 1958. The Crusader III had potential, but the Navy preferred the two-seat, twin-engine configuration of the Phantom.  Test flights were terminated after the aircraft had demonstrated a speed of Mach 2.3. Vought believed the aircraft was capable of Mach 2.9, but the windscreen material wasn't up to that kind of punishment, and the program was killed before Vought could make the necessary changes. Two XF8U-3s were passed on to NASA for high-altitude and sonic boom flight tests, while the third was sent to Edwards Air Force Base for flight testing. They were all scrapped after a year or two. There are stories that NASA pilots flying out of the agency's center at Langley, Virginia, liked to go up to the Navy air test center at Patuxent River, Maryland, with their Crusader IIIs and bounce Phantoms. Navy test pilots complained and the NASA pilots were told to knock it off. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:00:13 AM EDT
[#1]
tag for home so I can look at the pretty pictures.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:01:06 AM EDT
[#2]
The Crusader was an agile MoFo… the Crusader III looked like it would have been a demon in the ACM arena too…
ANdy 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:01:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Tell that Chineese model-maker Trumpeter,to make one,they already made an F-107,BTW,there's more that can be told,read the Lou Drendel book, F-8 Cruesader in Action,has a nice piece on the III
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:05:38 AM EDT
[#4]
THAT is uglier than sin!
The engineers need to understand... Fighters are supposed to look GOOD! This is like the Boeing version of the JSF - sure it may have been a bit better, but how are you going to convince a pilot to fly something that looks like a pregnant guppy?!? I'm sure it was a beast, it's just ugly. Matt |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:10:11 AM EDT
[#5]
F8U-3 Crusader III
In 1955 Vought started design of the XF8U-3 Crusader III, a very high performance all-weather interceptor/fighter. Although it carried an F8 designation, it was an entirely new aircraft that was larger and had a more powerful engine than the previous F8s. Vought decided not to call their entry the XF9U-1, which would have been a logical choice. Instead, the the aircraft was designated XF8U-3 Crusader III. The F8U-2 (F-8C) had been considered such a major upgrade that it was initially called Crusader II, so it was logical to call the XF8U-3 Crusader III. The fuselage was enlarged to accomodate a Pratt & Whitney J75 turbojet, with a thrust almost 60 percent greater than the J57 of the F8U-1 and -2. The lower lip of the chin-mounted intake was raked forward in order to achieve Mach 2+ performance. The intake was of fixed geometry, with no mechanically-complex moving parts. Perhaps the most distinctive feature was the use of a pair of large ventral fins which were extended vertically downward when the aircraft was in flight. These fins were retracted to a horizontal position for landings and takeoffs. The F8U-3, powered by the Pratt & Whitney J75-P-6 afterburning engine was the fastest accelerating fighter in the world in acceleration from subsonic to supersonic speeds. From a speed of Mach .98 at 35,000 feet to Mach 2.2, it would take only 3 minutes and 54 seconds compared to a time of 9 minutes for a more conventional fighter of that era. The maximum altitude capability for this aircraft, was also impressive. From a sustained flight altitude of 65,000 feet the aircraft could zoom to an altitude approaching 90,000 feet. First flight of the XF8U-3 was June 2, 1958. During subsequent flights, the XF8U-3 achieved a speed of Mach 2.39 (approximately 1,601 mph) and was still accelerating at 0.1 Mach every 17 seconds. This was extraordinary even when compared to the performance of today’s aircraft. The reason for not flying faster was the heat limitations on the plexiglas windshield, which was approaching an external temperature of 325 degrees F. A design for a laminated glass windshield was under way during the flight test program. This would have allowed the aircraft to achieve its maximum speed potential. It was the opinion of all the test pilots, from the technical data available, that the aircraft could attain a speed close to Mach 2.9 at 35,000 feet (1,950 mph)and there is little doubt that this speed could have been attained. This would have easily made the F8U-3 the fastest jet-propelled fighter– interceptor in the world. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f8u-3.htm |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:10:27 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:13:54 AM EDT
[#7]
 Max speed was never determined, as the canopy would overheat and begin turning opaque at about 2.6 mach; test pilots felt that mach 3.0 was easily attainable, based on the acceleration still evident at 2.6. The Super Crusader lost out in a flyoff with the F-4, which had 2 engines and a crew of 2. Pilots who flew both thought the F-8U-3 was a delight to fly, while the F-4B was "trucky". |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:15:07 AM EDT
[#8]
The nose is UGLY but I'm a fan of the old F-8! Wish I'd gotten to see one flying.
Why was the Crusader phased out so quickly? Was it a bear to maintain or something? |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:22:53 AM EDT
[#9]
They flew missions in VN so I think that is a pretty long life. I grew up living in the flight pattern of Lockheed[Marietta GA]/Dobbins/Naval Air Station Atlanta so I got to see all sorts of neat AC flying around as a kid.
rj |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:23:58 AM EDT
[#10]
IIRC, the Crusader lacked the ability to take modern AA missiles. It lacked the wiring bus necessary. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:32:41 AM EDT
[#11]
1/72 scale Vought XF8U-3 |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:33:28 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:36:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Next to the F 104 Thats a pretty cool plane
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:38:07 AM EDT
[#14]
The French Navy pilots loved their Crusaders and they were extensively upgraded by the French…
 Vought F-8E(FN) Crusader Last revised January 22, 2000 Written by: Joseph Baugher In 1962, the French Navy (Marine Nationale) ordered the Vought F-8 Crusader as a carrier-based air superiority fighter to succeed the Aquilon. It was to serve aboard the new Aeronautique Navale (Aeronavale) aircraft carriers Foch and Clemenceau. The French aviation industry was unable to come up with an acceptable design, so the French Navy somewhat reluctantly opted for an American aircraft. The French Crusader was designated F-8E(FN), where the FN stood for "French Navy". The Marine Nationale originally planned to order 40 single seat F-8E(FN) fighters, plus six TF-8E(FN) two-seaters. However, when plans for the development of the two-seat Crusader were abandoned, the order was changed to 42 F-8E(FN) single-seaters. The 42 F-8E(FN) aircraft were assigned the Bureau of Aeronautics serial numbers 151732/151773 for administrative purposes. The F-8E(FN) had to be modified so that it could operate safely aboard French aircraft carriers, which were somewhat smaller than their American counterparts. In order to reduce the approach speed, the maximum angle of incidence of the variable-incidence wing was increased from five to seven degrees. The drooping wing leading edges were separated into two sections in order to increase the amount of camber that could be achieved when they were extended. A boundary layer control system was added, which blew pressurized air from the engine compressor through adjustable air vents that exhausted over the trailing edge wing flaps. The airflow pressure automatically increased with the angle of flap deflection. The maximum angle of deflection of the trailing-edge flaps was increased. The surface area of the tailplane was increased. The quartet of four 20-mm cannon was retained, as well as the ability to carry four fuselage-mounted AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles. However, provision was also made to accommodate the French-built Matra R530 air-to-air missile, which existed in both infrared and semi-active radar homing versions. One R530 was carried on each side of the fuselage on rail launchers. Often, an infrared-homing R530 would be carried in one side of the fuselage, with a radar-homer on the other side. To accommodate the R530 in its radar-homing version, a Magnavox AN/APQ-104 radar was fitted, together with a modified AN/AWG-4 fire control system. F-8D BuNo 147036 was used as the test airframe for the F-8E(FN) and flew for the first time on February 27, 1964. Unfortunately, it crashed on April 11, 1964. The first production F-8E(FN) flew on June 26, 1964, and it was assigned the task of completing the test program. The first French Crusaders arrived at Saint Nazaire on October 5, 1964. The first Aeronavale squadron to receive the Crusader was Flotille 12F, with Flotille 14F following six months later. Flotille 14F was re-equipped with the Super Etendard in 1978, but 14F stood down in 1991, leaving 12F to soldier on with the Crusader as the only Aeronavale interceptor squadron. Although a "foreign" aircraft, the Crusader was nevertheless highly popular with its French Navy pilots, Over the years, the armament of the F-8E(FN) has been through several stages of upgrading. The French Crusader originally carried the Matra R530 missile, which existed in both infrared- and semi-active radar-homing versions. The Sidewinder infrared-homing missile was still compatible with the F-8E(FN), but it was very rarely carried. The enhanced Matra Super 530 was never adopted for the Crusader, since the APQ-104 radar was not compatible with it. In late 1989, the Matra R530 was withdrawn from service. In 1973, the Matra R550 Magic short range infrared-homing air-to-air missile was added to the Crusader's armament suite. The all-aspect Magic 2 was made available in 1988, and is now the French Crusader's primary missile armament. New F-8J wings were installed on French Crusaders in 1969, and from 1979 onward their Pratt & Whitney J57-P-20A turbojets were fitted with new afterburners. Aeronavale Crusaders have never seen any combat, although they have served in war zones. In 1983, Flotille 12F flew top cover in operations off Lebanon while Super Etendards attacked gun positions in retaliation for terrorist attacks on French targets in Beirut. In 1987, during the Iran-Iraq war, Crusaders went into the Persian Gulf aboard the Clemenceau in an international effort to protect shipping against attacks by Iranian speedboats. Several interceptions of Iranian aircraft were made, although there was no actual combat. The Crusader has been serving with the French Navy for nearly thirty years, and is by now quite long in the tooth. It has become increasingly difficult to keep the aircraft operational. Since the Crusader has been long out of production, the French Navy has to rely on the boneyards of AMARC at Davis-Monthan AFB in Arizona for spare parts, as well as having to manufacture a small number of spare parts itself. The Crusader was replaced by the Dassault Rafale M, which saw it's first operation cruises on the Aircraft Carrier Charles de Guale in 2000. In order to make the French Crusader a viable interceptor until the end of the century, the surviving F-8E(FN)s were scheduled to go through an extensive upgrade to increase their service life. As part of the upgrade, a new zero-zero capable Martin-Baker ejector seat was to be installed, and the airframe was to be reinforced and strengthened. The wiring and the hydraulic system were to be replaced. The cockpit instruments were to be rearranged and and there was to be a new avionics suite fitted which included a radar altimeter, IFF, ILS, and VOR. The gyroscopic navigation system of the Mirage F1 was to be adopted. A Thomson-CSF Sherloc radar warning receiver was to be mounted in a vertical fin extension. The first upgraded F-8E(FN) was completed in June of 1992, and by September 1994, 12 aircraft had been modified. The upgrade program should be completed by the end of 1995. http://www.airtoaircombat.com/background.asp?bg=219&id=32 |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:49:55 AM EDT
[#15]
That things pointy end looks like a Great White with its mouth open.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:50:58 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:07:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Guess who has the only F-8's in flight worthy condition in the USA?
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:11:38 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:20:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Why aren't the French ones painted yellow?
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:21:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Nasa? |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:32:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Nope. Paul Allen. 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:35:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Last of the real gunfighters.
Although I can't imagine an F-8 with no cannons. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:46:11 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:11:56 PM EDT
[#24]
I know a guy who had a flameout on takeoff at NAS Atsugi when he was only at about 3,000 AGL. He pulled the face shield down, broke his back and his Crusader crashed in town. Very sad...it still bothers him...but there was absolutely nothing he could do. Full of gas, slow, climb power and AoA and suddenly no power at all.
 He flew F-4s in Viet Nam and liked both jets but he acknowledged that F-8s were real fighters. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:14:52 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:16:21 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:40:03 PM EDT
[#27]
 The F-8 was the last of the Gunfighters… The F-14 was the last of the fighters… There are no true fighters at sea in the West anymore…
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:43:08 PM EDT
[#28]
The Hornet can turn and burn with the best of them. 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:01:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Well, maybe all the other POS naval aircraft, anyway. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:11:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Keeps up with the F-16 and the Mig-29 quite well. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:28:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Hornet is a jack of all trades and master of none… F-8 was a superb purpose built dogfighter, probably the best of it's generation… F-14 was a superb purpose built interceptor fighter… far and away the best of it's generation… |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#32]
The ability to keep ut 'quite well' with 70's generation fighters…  I thought the idea was to make the other guys try and keep up with you… 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:34:08 PM EDT
[#33]
The original F/A-18A was very manueverable. As the designed progressed through its lifetime it has become more of a pig. Was the F-18 the best? No. It was indistinguishable from other very agile aircraft of the day, such as the F-16A and the Mig-29. To me that generation of aircraft are like comparing a Mig-15 to a F-86. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:35:12 PM EDT
[#34]
So when you said it was about the same as the Tornado ADV in the other thread, you were clearly mistaken |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:37:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Let's be honest here. The Mig-29 and Su-27 were developed to counter the teen series of fighters. For the most part, our fighters entered service prior to the Russian designs. Only now, some 20+ years later are we down on the teen series, in some cases 30+ years later, with the introduction of new aircraft such as the EF-2000, then new Suhkois, etc. That's a damn good track record. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:44:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Still sexy:
 |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:47:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Were talking NAVAL fighters here, you can't put a Tornado on a carrier… 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:47:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Bingo. Strip 'em both and the F-16 will still take the F/A-18. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:48:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Sure you can. I've seen A-12s, the SR-71 predecessor not the mythical strike fighter, on a carrier once. All you need is a crane. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:48:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Again, for a naval fighter. 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:48:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Um, sure.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:49:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Nope. Name a better interceptor, anywhere, from the mid-70s to the mid-90s. Hell to 2000. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:52:44 PM EDT
[#43]
BLASPHEMY! 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:57:06 PM EDT
[#44]
I thought the Mig-29 was a product of '80s tech that was operational by the late '80s?
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:57:13 PM EDT
[#45]
I should have deferred to the "interceptor" part. However, the F-14 based its value largely upon the Phoenix, which was only good at intercepting large, slow moving threats. And I'll qualify because it never actually did that in combat. It splashed four MiGs in the early 1980s, but I'll defer to the F-15 when it comes to splashing high-performance combat aircraft in quantity. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:58:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Performance aside, you have to admit that is a DAMN FRIGHTENING fighter.. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 2:59:10 PM EDT
[#47]
You place too much importance on the weapon and not enough on the sensor. The F-14 consistantly had a better radar and threat ID systems. ETA: If you look at the F-15s kills they are mostly against the same type of aircraft the F-14 engaged or Migs running away to Iran, or fully loaded out Mirage's out on anti-shipping missions. We haven't had any of our fighters really tangle with the best out there. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:00:34 PM EDT
[#48]
I am. The '16 ought to take it in a dogfight. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:02:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Care to link to some data to back that up? |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:02:43 PM EDT
[#50]
True… But I wish the USN would get back to putting clear blue sky between it's fighters and any concievable opponent… …coz we would buy them too! If Britain had gone ahead and bought the five CVA-01 large fleet carriers that were planned to enter service in 1975-85 you would still have the F-14 flyng off carriers today… in Royal Navy colours…   CVA-01 design from 1966… if only… ANdy |
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