Fw:


Dunno why it went from "Breaking News" to "gone" immediately, but it's still readable if you know the article number. Click on http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49510 to read it.
You'll have to cut and paste it into your browser because my web-fu sucks!
Very odd, the Fuds are putting pressure on the media to spike the story. PRAVDA is alive and well in the United Socialist States of Amerika

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49510

OKC BOMBING FALLOUT Federal judge rules: McVeigh had help Bolsters claims government had informant inside conspiracy to attack federal building -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: March 30, 2006 4:41 a.m. Eastern By J.D .Cash, Roger Charles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A U.S. District Court judge in Salt Lake City, Utah, has issued a stunning decision that appears to bolster claims that executed bomber Timothy McVeigh was supported by various militia groups, and that the government had an informant inside the bombing conspiracy. The case in Utah grew out of a dispute between civil attorney Jesse Trentadue and the Oklahoma City FBI over documents requested under the Freedom of Information Act. For over a decade, Trentadue has been searching for documents that might shed light on the death of his brother at the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City, in August of 1995. The federal government maintains that Kenneth Trentadue killed himself in a suicide-proof cell at the Oklahoma City federal installation, where he was being held on a purported parole violation for failing to report to his parole officer. In the course of this investigation, Trentadue received "tips" from various sources, including one allegedly from a source close to McVeigh, before McVeigh's execution. That source said that McVeigh told him that Kenneth Trentadue was beaten, tortured and murdered because the FBI mistakenly believed he was linked to a group of bank bandits that considerable evidence now suggests, assisted McVeigh in the plot to bomb the Oklahoma federal building. The FOIA suit began after heavily redacted documents obtained by this newspaper, from an FBI whistleblower, confirmed McVeigh's links to Elohim City and informants working for the Southern Poverty Law Center who were present at the paramilitary compound on April 17, 1995, when McVeigh called the camp looking for German-national Andreas Strassmeir and additional help in the bombing. While heavily redacted, that Jan. 4, 1996, teletype from then-FBI director Louis Freeh to a select group of FBI offices contained information appearing to link Strassmeir to McVeigh and the FBI's knowledge that Strassmeir was planning to flee the country soon. Inexplicably, the FBI did not go to the residence where the memo said Strassmeir was living in Black Mountain, N.C., and detain the individual for questioning about the bombing. Instead, Strassmeir – with the help on his Black Mountain, N.C. attorney, Kirk Lyons, and former CIA pilot Dave Holloway – was able to slip across the Mexican border a few days after the teletype was issued. Since the discovery of this heavily redacted document linking the SPLC, Elohim City and Strassmeir to McVeigh and the bombing conspiracy, the FBI has since produced 17 additional documents for Trentadue. However, key sections of those documents were also heavily redacted. Seeking to have the FBI provide unredacted copies of these additional documents, Trentadue has claimed the FBI has a duty to make a full disclosure of who their informants and suspects in the bombing were, because the national interest in the Oklahoma City bombing, far outweighs any privacy interests those informants and suspects may have had. In order to determine the validity of the claims made by both sides, the FBI was ordered in November to turn over unredacted copies of all the documents at issue for the judge to examine "in chambers." Considering Trentadue's allegations about his brother's mysterious and violent death, the judge early in his opinion observed: "While officials ruled the death a suicide, the Plaintiff unearthed significant evidence of foul play. Plaintiff's theory is that his brother apparently looked very similar to Richard Lee Guthrie, who allegedly was one of Timothy McVeigh's accomplices in the Oklahoma City bombing and a member of the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang. Plaintiff believes that his brother was killed during an overly aggressive interrogation by federal agents – who believed Kenneth Trentadue was Richard Lee Guthrie. Later in his summary of the facts, Judge Dale Kimball also noted that Guthrie was later apprehended by authorities and he, too, is said to have committed suicide his jail cell while in federal custody. After reviewing the unredacted documents provided by the FBI, Kimball singled out a teletype issued by the FBI, only six days after the blast. "Plaintiff points out the fact that this document indicates there was an undercover operative in with Timothy McVeigh and members of the various militia groups who aided and supported McVeigh, but plaintiff wonders why, given the subject matter, there are no earlier records produced by the FBI." Contacted after the ruling was issued, Trentadue told this newspaper that he is heartened by the language the judged used here, which clearly indicates the unredacted documents convinced the court that McVeigh had accomplices that have not been charged and the government had at least one informant within the cabal. "The judge concurs with my allegations that McVeigh was supported by this bank robbery group at Elohim City and that the government was inside that group with at least one informant." The court, though, sided with the FBI in refusing to allow the release of the names of the other suspects or their informants that provided them with information about the conspiracy. In his 22-page ruling, Kimball said, "(FOIA) Exemption 7D protects records of information compiled for law enforcement purposes which could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source or information furnished by a confidential source." Regarding the FBI's reluctance to provide the information sought by Trentadue, Kimball wrote, "It is troubling that so many of the documents produced by the FBI refer to FD-302s (investigation leads) that were or should have been prepared, and the disclosed documents also refer to other attachments that at one time appear to have accompanied the document, yet these documents have not been produced. While the FBI's failure to discover documents is not necessarily and indication of bad faith, it is puzzling that so many documents could be referenced but not produced." Focusing on Morris Dees and the organization he co-founded, the SPLC, the judge ordered the FBI to conduct additional record searches for documents containing the names of Morris Dees, the SPLC and several radical members of the far-right that frequented Elohim City and that have been linked in the past to McVeigh. Encouraging the FBI to fully cooperate with attorney Trentadue in his dogged search for the truth around his brother's murder, Kimball warned the agency: "It appears likely, however, that the FBI has not seen the last FOIA request from Plaintiff." One senior, retired FBI agent who read only the paragraph quoted above from the judge's ruling said that the judge's finding that there was an informant and a broader conspiracy than heretofore admitted by the government makes even more inexplicable the FBI headquarters' shutting down all investigations into the Elohim City connection to OKBOMB. He further stated that it would be "a huge scandal" if it is ever proven that Strassmeir's name is among those currently withheld as having been guaranteed confidentiality as an informant.

The only militia with a history of bombing American targets is the FBI.

All I know is that if you read Brigadeer General Pardin's Bomb Damage Asessment, he makes a DAMNED good case for there being demo charges inside the building, and he's qualified to do that kind of work.

The only thing I know for sure about the OK city bombing is that we will never know exactly what happened.

Read Jana Davis book. The evidence she has collected is amazing.

Tag

Sounds more and more like a sting operation that went bad doesn't it.

hmmm

Quoted: The only militia with a history of bombing American targets is the FBI. Since when did the FBI, become a militia???Not surprising he had help from a militant milita organization, many attract the wrong element.

tag

Quoted: Can anyone give me any ideas --no matter how farfetched-- on why the government would place demo charges in the OKC federal building?

I doubt there was any charges placed in building. Jana Davis book mainly covers the foreign involvement of middle eastern terrorists to the bombing. It never says anything about explosives in building. There was some really complicated math done to sit that truck exactly at the right spot for maximum damage.

How about the other big bombing....World trade center 1. The feds had a plant and knew everything that was happening. All evidence was released during trial. I don't know why the feds felt it was needed to actually let the building get blown...but they did...

 I not a conspitatorialist but the OKC Bombing has ALWAYS bothered me....."militia" folk may hate the Gov't and it's Lackeys but I find it hard to believe they would perform somehting like the OKC Bombing.  First reason: Militias are for the most part more about talk than action...escpecially somthing so big.  Second: most Militia types are very patriotic at heart and know that along with the FBI and ATF they tried to kill ( or did ) they would be killing many innnocent folks.  Third: it would NOT benefit their cause in the least....and, of course, OKC did NOT benefit them in any way.

Ask yourself the following  question: who DID benefit from the OKC bombing???

 Only one group comes to mind:  the United States Government.

Why?  After the Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents, the Federal Government was under intense scrutiny by EVERYONE.  Even elemetns of the media were beginning to understand WHY things like the Constitution, the Bill of Rights were so important to the "Right Wingers".  There were large portions of the Liberal Left ready to swing over to the other side.  The Liberterian Party was becomming a VERY viable option for many of the Left Wing and it was gaining momentum.  The Balance of Power in D.C. was beginning to tip in favor of SMALLER and lesss powerful Government.  People wanted these assholes in check and it was going to show at the polls.

 The Powers that be Needed a miracle.  They needed an event that would put balance back into the American thought process ( or lack thereof ) and prevent them from falling not only out of favor but out of power.   They needed an event that would make the Powers that Be appear to be the victims....without actually BEING the victims.

 They got their miracle......Oklahoma City.  On the anniversary of the FBI and ATF's torture and subsequent murder of a small, unassuming group of men, women and children in WACO, Texas; an event would occur that would immediately free the Government of an immense amount of the burden and guilt that was weighing upon their shoulders over Waco and Ruby Ridge.

 The only people who benefitted from the Oklahoma City Bombing were the Powers that Be.

Not knocking what you all are saying... but ....

I’ve often wondered why, with some people, does an event need to have a vast conspiracy behind it before it can be true..??..  

Just one of the things in life that I've never been able to figure out...

Quoted: Quoted: Can anyone give me any ideas --no matter how farfetched-- on why the government would place demo charges in the OKC federal building? I doubt there was any charges placed in building. Jana Davis book mainly covers the foreign involvement of middle eastern terrorists to the bombing. It never says anything about explosives in building. There was some really complicated math done to sit that truck exactly at the right spot for maximum damage.

While I wholehearted agree w/ your recommendation to read Jana's book (I have 2 copies of it), your research is abit lacking on these comment made above.

There were charges detonated in the Murray building. One of the foremost explosives expert in the country verified this fact, so go back and check out ret. Gen. Partin's information.

Here's his letter to Trent Lott, a good start: www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok8.htm

Mike

ETA - forgot to add a "see I told ya so" comment above to RikWriter and other government shields here on AR15.com who pooh-poohed my comments on this OKC topic years ago as a tin-foiled hatted conspiracy theory. I see this article above as a vindication for all the BS smoke and mirrors rebuttals by those hard corp government supporters.

Those in our government responsible for these lies and cover-ups should be brought to justice and even if it means tearing down those currently continuing the lies and obfuscation in the current administration and rebuilding our entire governmental hierarchy, (especially those "alphabet" agencies caught once again here witholding information in order to conceal the truth from the American public).

I say let the truth be know, no matter whose heads roll, (and don't fooled into thinking that only the Clinton administration is to blame here as they are simply the opposite side of the same evil coin used to divide the people too dumb to know the truth).

The American public deserves a government that is answerable to “We the People” as our constituion decrees, not those statist elites bent on their one world government New World Order bs.  

Thanks for posting the above topic and link, as I missed that yesterday.

tag

One thing I know for sure is that this government is very good at keeping secrets when it comes to atrocities commited against its own people. (Allways has been)

I'm not saying the .gov is souly responsible for OKC, but I would not be surprised to find out it had a hand in it, like a string gone bad or even an inside source and failed to stop it. Considering the  Administration in charge at the time (Clinton) does anyone really think they would have the moral fortitude to admitt they fucked up???

I think not. They showed they were masters of covering up their fuck-ups. And I'll bet that Waco is only the tip of the iceberg as it is the most obvious......

tag for more time

In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, an Egyptian man named Emad Salem, a former army officer. Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to bomb the towers as early as February 6, 1992. Salem's role as informant allowed the FBI to quickly pinpoint the conspirators out of the hundreds of possible suspects.

Salem, initially believing that this was to be a sting operation, claimed that the FBI's original plan was for Salem to supply the conspirators with a harmless powder instead of actual explosive to build their bomb, but that the FBI chose to use him for other purposes instead. He substantiated his claims with hundreds of hours of secretly-recorded conversations with his FBI handlers, made during discussions held after the bombings. They are currrently in possession of the FBI.

Salem said he wished to complain to FBI headquarters in Washington about the failure to prevent the bombing despite foreknowledge, but was dissuaded from doing so by the New York FBI office. The FBI has never contradicted Salem's account.


Wikipedia entry.....

tag

Quoted: Quoted: The only militia with a history of bombing American targets is the FBI. Since when did the FBI, become a militia???Not surprising he had help from a militant milita organization, many attract the wrong element.

Why do you follow Stratiotes around and troll everything he posts? You some kind of stalker?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The only militia with a history of bombing American targets is the FBI. Since when did the FBI, become a militia???Not surprising he had help from a militant milita organization, many attract the wrong element. Why do you follow Stratiotes around and troll everything he posts? You some kind of stalker?

I think he's talking about when they dropped that bomb on top of the roof of a house where some radical group in the 70's or 80's? My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think it involved a satchel of explosives and known gasoline in the attic. IIRC, sereral blocks of houses were burned down. The History channel does a show about it once a year or so.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The only militia with a history of bombing American targets is the FBI. Since when did the FBI, become a militia???Not surprising he had help from a militant milita organization, many attract the wrong element. Why do you follow Stratiotes around and troll everything he posts? You some kind of stalker? I think he's talking about when they dropped that bomb on top of the roof of a house where some radical group in the 70's or 80's? My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think it involved a satchel of explosives and known gasoline in the attic. IIRC, sereral blocks of houses were burned down. The History channel does a show about it once a year or so.

That was the Philadelphia PD and the 1985 MOVE stand off.  Not sure the FBI was really involved, though MOVE, the Mumia lovers, and the far-left fringe moonbat crowd claims they were (and MOVE is/was a bunch of kooks).

I remember that day like it was yesterday:  It did not register at first, but looking back and shortly after I recall these tid bits.

Why weren't any FBI agents there that day? **

Local news stations, with helicopters in the air, quit showing the footage after the first few hours.  In the first footage there was NO hole in the street infront of the building, parked cars on the other side of the building still had windows in them and lamp posts were still standing.

**I had guys from my SWAT team at the time that were on scene and they said something seemed fishy to them even before all the rumors and such got started?

The Reporters ON SCENE after the first explosion were shooting when a SECOND big EXPLOSION went off and it was on live TV, then a THIRD significantly smaller explosion occoured on live TV.

Guys this was showed buy the helicopters, and the live shot from the ground.  I remember them showing it on TV LIVE, then within 6 hours the story was completely different, NONE of the eye witness footage, NONE of the LIVE REPORT footage, and NONE of the helicopter footage was ever showed on TV again.

You guys from OK City area have to remember this.  I was seeing it through Tulsa stations getting feeds for the City stations.

I am not into all the cover up stuff guys, but this deal was weird, I wish I recorded it while it was happening, but at the time you are just numb?

This type of stuff is is old news to some folks.  Even if you're not the tnfoil-hat wearing type of person (as I admittedly am).  there's some interesting reading out there:

www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/cat_index_32.shtml

ETA:  The WND article in questions mentions Andy Strassmeir (possibly as John Doe #2, perhaps an FBI/SPLC informant) at the end.  The New American had that one figured out ten years ago...literally:

www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_3202.shtml

...and the bank robbery connection nine years ago:

www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_3097.shtml

Quoted: Quoted: Can anyone give me any ideas --no matter how farfetched-- on why the government would place demo charges in the OKC federal building? I doubt there was any charges placed in building. Jana Davis book mainly covers the foreign involvement of middle eastern terrorists to the bombing. It never says anything about explosives in building. There was some really complicated math done to sit that truck exactly at the right spot for maximum damage.

Or it happened that there was a parking spot open.


KOOKS.

always gets me wondering when key witnesses conveniently commit suicide in their cells and the FBI wants the papers...to destroy?
It would be interesting to know how many conspiracies counter conspiracies, etc. in the government.

I’ve often wondered why, with some people, does an event need to have a vast conspiracy behind it before it can be true..??..

We don't like to lose to sick people so it's easier to accept that it was something huge and not just one sick individual, a coincidence or bad luck.  People can't believe that one person can do so much damage.  That one person can kill a president with a simple rifle.  That someone rich and beautiful can be killed in a simple car crash.  It's hard to accept that 20 people can cause billions of dollars in damages and kill 3000 people when we have an awesome government and military to protect us.  It's not enough to blame the FBI for not stopping McVeigh so we decide he couldn't have done it by himself and we blame the FBI for the bombing.  

I always thought it was pretty interesting how many scumbags languish for decades on death row, look at Tookie....but the gov gave McVeigh the spike relatively quickly....

I don't know, but it appears to be more than meets the eye with the whole thing....

Quoted: I always thought it was pretty interesting how many scumbags languish for decades on death row, look at Tookie....but the gov gave McVeigh the spike relatively quickly.... I don't know, but it appears to be more than meets the eye with the whole thing....

Yep, good point.

Coincidence, I think not.

HS1

During the congressional hearing a report was handed to the reps, in that report the military EOD men stated they took unexploded shaped charges of C-4 off  the columns, the C-4 was from military stocks but not stolen, the FBI had checked out the slightly more C-4 than the actual amount used on the columns, the unused amount was found in Nickles house.

The FBI blew up OKC just like they do everything else, they are terrorists in the worste kind, traitors to their own country.

Quoted: I remember that day like it was yesterday:  It did not register at first, but looking back and shortly after I recall these tid bits. Why weren't any FBI agents there that day? ** Local news stations, with helicopters in the air, quit showing the footage after the first few hours.  In the first footage there was NO hole in the street infront of the building, parked cars on the other side of the building still had windows in them and lamp posts were still standing. **I had guys from my SWAT team at the time that were on scene and they said something seemed fishy to them even before all the rumors and such got started? The Reporters ON SCENE after the first explosion were shooting when a SECOND big EXPLOSION went off and it was on live TV, then a THIRD significantly smaller explosion occoured on live TV. Guys this was showed buy the helicopters, and the live shot from the ground.  I remember them showing it on TV LIVE, then within 6 hours the story was completely different, NONE of the eye witness footage, NONE of the LIVE REPORT footage, and NONE of the helicopter footage was ever showed on TV again. You guys from OK City area have to remember this.  I was seeing it through Tulsa stations getting feeds for the City stations. I am not into all the cover up stuff guys, but this deal was weird, I wish I recorded it while it was happening, but at the time you are just numb?

There was only one blast....I was a few hundred yards away at the Federal Reserve Bank at a staff meeting at my new job (my old job was at KFOR-TV working with Jayna Davis coincidentally)  later in the day someone yelled 'bomb' and you saw video of people running to escape the false alarm..

Quoted: I always thought it was pretty interesting how many scumbags languish for decades on death row, look at Tookie....but the gov gave McVeigh the spike relatively quickly.... I don't know, but it appears to be more than meets the eye with the whole thing....

McVeigh was on Federal Death Row...whole different ballgame

Quoted: There was only one blast....I was a few hundred yards away at the Federal Reserve Bank at a staff meeting at my new job (my old job was at KFOR-TV working with Jayna Davis coincidentally)  later in the day someone yelled 'bomb' and you saw video of people running to escape the false alarm..

The EOD men order the emergency people out of the building, there was burning C-4 in one area, they did not want them to step on burning C-4.

Quoted: During the congressional hearing a report was handed to the reps, in that report the military EOD men stated they took unexploded shaped charges of C-4 off  the columns, the C-4 was from military stocks but not stolen, the FBI had checked out the slightly more C-4 than the actual amount used on the columns, the unused amount was found in Nickles house.

I'm gonna have to ask to see some documentation of that ... should be in the congressional record, I would think.

Quoted: Quoted: I remember that day like it was yesterday:  It did not register at first, but looking back and shortly after I recall these tid bits. Why weren't any FBI agents there that day? ** Local news stations, with helicopters in the air, quit showing the footage after the first few hours.  In the first footage there was NO hole in the street infront of the building, parked cars on the other side of the building still had windows in them and lamp posts were still standing. **I had guys from my SWAT team at the time that were on scene and they said something seemed fishy to them even before all the rumors and such got started? The Reporters ON SCENE after the first explosion were shooting when a SECOND big EXPLOSION went off and it was on live TV, then a THIRD significantly smaller explosion occoured on live TV.[/red] Guys this was showed buy the helicopters, and the live shot from the ground.  I remember them showing it on TV LIVE, then within 6 hours the story was completely different, NONE of the eye witness footage, NONE of the LIVE REPORT footage, and NONE of the helicopter footage was ever showed on TV again. You guys from OK City area have to remember this.  I was seeing it through Tulsa stations getting feeds for the City stations. I am not into all the cover up stuff guys, but this deal was weird, I wish I recorded it while it was happening, but at the time you are just numb? There was only one blast....I was a few hundred yards away at the Federal Reserve Bank at a staff meeting at my new job (my old job was at KFOR-TV working with Jayna Davis coincidentally)  later in the day someone yelled 'bomb' and you saw video of people running to escape the false alarm..

Thanks VooDoo that clears a lot up for me, I guess my mind twisted the facts some and a lot of the first reports could of been from bee-hive-hair women that do tornado reoports huh?

Quoted: Quoted: During the congressional hearing a report was handed to the reps, in that report the military EOD men stated they took unexploded shaped charges of C-4 off  the columns, the C-4 was from military stocks but not stolen, the FBI had checked out the slightly more C-4 than the actual amount used on the columns, the unused amount was found in Nickles house. I'm gonna have to ask to see some documentation of that ... should be in the congressional record, I would think.

Good luck.

Quoted: Very odd, the Fuds are putting pressure on the media to spike the story.

You mean apart from the link on the front page of WND's site?

Quoted: www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/jose-padilla/padilla2.jpg www.glennbeck.com/okc/johndoe2.jpg Coincidence, I think not. HS1

What did he look like in 1995, 11 years ago?

Quoted: Quoted: During the congressional hearing a report was handed to the reps, in that report the military EOD men stated they took unexploded shaped charges of C-4 off  the columns, the C-4 was from military stocks but not stolen, the FBI had checked out the slightly more C-4 than the actual amount used on the columns, the unused amount was found in Nickles house. I'm gonna have to ask to see some documentation of that ... should be in the congressional record, I would think.

He won't be able to provide it, remember, only some nutcases on the internet know the truth!

Tag for later.