In a land/air/naval war (non-nuclear) in the Middle East with the main combatants being the USA vs. China:

How long?
Who wins?

USA will win in 87 days.

Quoted: USA will win in 87 days.

+1

With less than 87 casualties.

say what you want about numbers.   the chinese can't hang with us technologically.  they would be dead before they knew we were in the area.

article


THERE WILL BE NO WAR

Cliff notes: Taiwanese people think the liberal pro-independence party is stupid, and are voting to continue friendly economic relations with china... Thereby taking away the only conceivable reason for the US to go to war with china.

PS: Interestingly, we have the TRA, Taiwan Relations Act which allows for the president to go to war with China if they touch Taiwan at his own discretion...

We would destroy their air force within a couple of weeks and then proceed to kick their ass. Our air support would slaughter them.

Quoted: article THERE WILL BE NO WAR Cliff notes: Taiwanese people think the liberal pro-independence party is stupid, and are voting to continue friendly economic relations with china... Thereby taking away the only conceivable reason for the US to go to war with china. PS: Interestingly, we have the TRA, Taiwan Relations Act which allows for the president to go to war with China if they touch Taiwan at his own discretion...

well, a war with china might not be over tiawan....  what if they decided to move on the middle east and take physical control of the oil reserves?  they are a developing country whose thirst for oil has grown exponentially in the past decade

USA! USA! USA!

If Israel has to get involved in destroying Iran's nuclear sites, then I think China jumps in at some point-and maybe Russian, too.  Both have too much at stake financially to let it go without responding harshly.

HH

Quoted: If Israel has to get involved in destroying Iran's nuclear sites, then I think China jumps in at some point-and maybe Russian, too.  Both have too much at stake financially to let it go without responding harshly. HH

without using nukes, russia can't conduct a large scale war on foreign soil right now.  they are too flat out broke.  hard to keep an army supplied when you can't buy shit.

The farther they move away from mainland China, the easier it would be for us to kill them. The Chinese threat that would pose the biggest issue right now is that in their immediate and current sphere of influence....Taiwan and the WRN Pacific. If they try to race out into the Middle East and start seizing open desert. that's when we'd overwhelmingly start kicking their ass. That's where our armor and air would be best able to deal with them, out in the open. Dealing with them in south Asia would be much more trouble (say they try to seize resources in Thailand or something), as that area is pretty dense with jungle. Thus, it would make our armor less effective and it would be easier for them to hide and move large numbers of troops. Thus, like Vietnam and the Pacific campaign in WWII, it would mainly be a light infantry battle in this area, with naval and air assets doing the rest. As we know, we have fewer light infantry outfits than heavy units. And it always gets more bloody when infantry go toe to toe, up close, in a jungle environement. And we'd be heavily outnumbered.

So yeah, I think we could deal with them just fine in open desert warfare, where our tanks and air power would overwhelm them, especially with them being a pretty good distance from home and lacking supplies and support. But having to face them if they moved on other areas in the Pacific and South Asia could be a much tougher fight, just based on terrain and the manner we'd have to fight.

They have no "working" navy or air force.  They are trying right now to build their naval forces, and the big game plan for that is purchasing old russian equitment and upgrading it.

Yea for the USN, you guys have something to hunt again...

Phooey.  We have F22's, the ultimate power in the universe.

Quoted: Phooey.  We have F22's, the ultimate power in the universe.

no, you and i both know what real ultimate power is.

China will not fight us using conventional means, so it's a pointless question.

Matter of fact, conventional warfare hasn't really been a viable option since WWII.

Now we fight wars on many different battlefields, economic, demographic, diplomatic, ideological, etc.

WMD basically makes violence between major powers an admission of failure and desperation.

That said, if the Chinese were to attack the US, it would most likely be biological, followed by tactical nuclear strikes if we realized who did it, in cooperation with other players.

I dunno, the whole premise is an anachronism, but long supply lines are never a good thing, especially in the modern world, where they're almost impossible to defend.

Quoted: Quoted: article THERE WILL BE NO WAR Cliff notes: Taiwanese people think the liberal pro-independence party is stupid, and are voting to continue friendly economic relations with china... Thereby taking away the only conceivable reason for the US to go to war with china. PS: Interestingly, we have the TRA, Taiwan Relations Act which allows for the president to go to war with China if they touch Taiwan at his own discretion... well, a war with china might not be over tiawan....  what if they decided to move on the middle east and take physical control of the oil reserves?  they are a developing country whose thirst for oil has grown exponentially in the past decade

I can't believe I'm saying this, but N_T is right!

Even if China wanted to up the ante, if and when the war kicked off they would loose the nuclear option almost imeadietly. They have two very loud SSBNs that SubPac keeps tabs on. First five minutes of the war those two go to the bottom. Other then that they have 20 SS-18 based ICBMs in moderetly hardened silos which have a two hour prep time for fueling before they can launch and can only be held at launch ready status for 2-4 hours depending on whos numbers you belive. Kinetic energy penetrators launched from an Ohio class on station in the Sea of Japan or a flight of B-2s (or orbitaly droped kinetic or pure fusion warheads depending on when the war if fought, or how fnu the toys still in our closet are) could handle that quickly.

After we kick them out of the nuclear club it might take two or three weeks to establish aerospace dominance, after that we can just pound their infrastructure and troop concentrations back into the stone age until those maoist punks surender. One thing that would never happen of course, is any sort of major land war on the chinese mainland, because the only way you could make that work would be the use of tactical nuclear weapons (hopefully pure fusion) early and often.

Also mentioned, Japan and China arent really too friendly.  I would foster a guess that anything China put up (needing an East or West or South  lauch path) Japan would bring right back down.  Do I trust my life to that, no, but it makes me feel better...

Are you people bored? I see this at lot lately, the whole "yellow peril" thing which to me is just 100% rediculous. Where do you get it from? Is this like the "new thing" at certain web sites or something? I can name five countries right off the top of my head that we have a 2000% greater chance of going to war with, never mind the fact that we are already in two fronts. Is It cause fighting Abdul in a cave with an RPG & IED is just not "sexy" enough? So you wanna a more "tangiable" "modern" enemy to think about fighting? is that it?

They will be the next big player in consumption of natural resources and increases in industrial production and are well on the road to giving us a run for our money in several areas.  These guys are going to be the next USSR, the question is how will we deal with them?  
There is a figure somewhere that each day in China they use enough Concrete and steel to build Pitsburg...  Their infastructure is growing at an alarming rate, as is thier consumption of OIL.

global warming ensues.

the tigris and euphrates dry up.

climate change and oil depletion starve millions of chinese.

they march west, 200 million soldiers across the tigris and euphrates rivers.

somehow israel is involved.

armageddon..

gotta happen before 2012 though...

we wont be involved..

Quoted: ... These guys are going to be the next USSR, the question is how will we deal with them?   There is a figure somewhere that each day in China they use enough Concrete and steel to build Pitsburg...  Their infastructure is growing at an alarming rate, as is thier consumption of OIL.

No, they are going to be the next USA from an industrial/consumer standpoint. We will be the next UK...

Quoted: gotta happen before 2012 though... we wont be involved..

why and why?

all this stuff makes me very sad and very depressed
i disagree with those who say that we would trounce them easily
China and Russia combined are nothing to sneeze at

Never underestimate the enemy

Quoted: Quoted: gotta happen before 2012 though... we wont be involved.. why and why?

its done by 2012

israel will stand alone in the final battle.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: gotta happen before 2012 though... we wont be involved.. why and why? its done by 2012- what is? this proposed war? the world? israel will stand alone in the final battle- and why do you say that?

start making sense damn you!

China surrenders 100,000,000 irregular troops and then attacks with their primary forces...

Quoted: Quoted: gotta happen before 2012 though... we wont be involved.. why and why?

I'd venture to say he buys into the whole Mayan calendar bit, but as to why we won't be involved...who know what his little voices are telling him

1]  Not going to happen short term

2]  Will happen when China is convinced it can take us on militarily, economically, industrially

3]  When it does happen it will not be China invading the US

4]  Those who think Taiwan is a part of China ought to read up on their history of that island nation a little. Common misconception/bullshit spread by the socialist 5th column in the US however.

5]  IMO, China will attempt to take much of Asia within the next 20 years or so.

6]  They will build a sub fleet and navy to prevent our moving material and men into Asia while using it to circumvent SE Asia and supply themselves.

7]  They will not make the mistake of trying to invade and hold the Pacific but will concentrate on Asia.

8]  Taiwan will be taken as will S. Korea. Japan will fall with scarcely a shot. All of this will be a minor part of the War.

9]  Our technological advantage is shrinking.