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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:48:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Got to spend those budget dollars!!!
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:49:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Pararescue Jumpers and Combact Controllers go to Dive School, it sounds like the AF is starting there own program rather than send there airmen to other service schools.
AF Forward Air Controllers go to Ranger School too. edited to add. The Air Force has several SF programs and has for a long time. There are even airmen that are "Combat Weathermen" that are weather observers behind enemy lines. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:50:07 PM EDT
[#3]
the Forward Air Controllers are some bad -A$$ dudes! Have you seen the History or Discovery documentary on them in Afghanistan. Hardcore. Parachute in by yourself, live amongst the enemy and call in airstrikes upon their head.
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:50:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Yeah!!! To hell with having well-trained soldiers!!!!! |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:56:02 PM EDT
[#5]
 It's not about having well trained troops. It's about spending the money today or we won't get anymore next year. Everybody wants another piece of the other guys action and therefore BUDGET DOLLARS I mean, really... AF combat divers? It's like Afganistan... why on earth were there USN SEALs over THERE???  Mr and Mrs Amerika, just sit back and shut up and pay your taxes... [ 
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:59:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Did you actually read the article? They use the course to train Pararescue and Combat Controllers. They're not establishing some kind of new fighting force. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:01:36 PM EDT
[#7]
No kidding why have Sea Air Land troops on the land in Afghanistan? 
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:02:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Yes I read the article. I guess that it's just a cold, unfortunate reality of today, that the USAF has to have it's own school. Another complete fucking waste of our tax dollars that would be better spent building a damned wall across AZ and NM. Oh, but what do I know, I mean, I'm just another one of el Jeffe's subjects. 
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:03:57 PM EDT
[#9]
In case they had to capture an oil platform up on Roberts Ridge? |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:05:55 PM EDT
[#10]
The fact that they're trained to fight the EXACT kind of war that needs to be and is being fought over there has nothing to do with their presence there I guess..... |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:06:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Oil platforms are not on Land, but SEALs do operate on LAND. Thus the "L" in the name. By your logic the USMC shouldn't have been involved either since Afghanistan is land locked and could not disembark utilizing traditional landing craft. And of course, we shouldn't have been using a fleet defense fighter like the F-14 to conduct CAS missions. Nope, if it were up to you we'd wait until we got the "proper" forces in place.
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:07:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Special Operations Command seems to almost be it's own branch of the service. Air Force, Army and Navy commandos supposedly go on joint missions all the time. From what I've read they've always had the same training. You're probably right about the budget dollars though. There is no reason that the Air Force and Army can't send it's Spec Ops guys to the Navy dive school. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:08:56 PM EDT
[#13]
A ridge that should have been named after the young airman that distinguished himself in combat, saving his fellow soldiers and dying for them and his country. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:08:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Thy words prick my mortal soul like the pike doth slay a man. I will now shut up, and go back to paying my taxes. What was I ever thinking. Forgive me, for questioning authority. Forgive me. 
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:10:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Actually, there may be plenty of reasons not to. I was speaking with an Navy EOD type a couple of months ago. He was commenting on jump school. The Navy uses the Army jump school now. What was a two week school, is now three weeks for the sake of being joint. It could very well be the Navy school either teaches too much or not the right cirirculum. Or there might not be enough seats in the Navy school anymore since the SEALs are increasing their number. That's the problem with joint schools. If the service who owns the schools needs more seats, other services get less. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:15:15 PM EDT
[#16]
You might have had a point IF the Navy was supporting Afghanistan at the expense of other missions. They did not. They had the appropriate training and were able to supplement Army SFs thereby reducing the burden on them. I could also mention they would not be deployed had they not been requested by CENTCOM, and Army General. But then again what would he know? |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:19:50 PM EDT
[#17]
I am amazed that the Navy/USMC doesn't run there own Jump School. I think everyone uses the Army Jump School. I remember watching a Discovery Channel special on the CIA and they even send there guys to US Army Jump School. Looks like it would get packed. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:29:45 PM EDT
[#18]
The Navy (and USMC and Air Force) has always used the Army's basic parachutist school at Ft. Benning as entry-level airborne training. Advanced training is conducted individually and at the joint-service HALO school. And it's always (for the last 20 years, at least) been a three week school. Two weeks training, one week jumping. All the other services attend the Navy EOD school (and some even the Brit EOD school, which is rated the best in the world). |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:35:12 PM EDT
[#19]
That's all it is. Looks like they've got a more PJ-specific training program going on. No need to learn hydrographic surveys or beach obstacle demolition. I noticed that they're teaching "repelling." Repelling what?? Mongol hordes?  BTW, thanks for the link; I think I'm going to borrow that.  ETA: Here's another one about the PJ's school: Superman School |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:45:49 PM EDT
[#20]
I guess they couldn't hack it at the USN schools. I mean we dont have eliptical machines for our PRT and I know our billeting is shit compared to USAF bases. I doubt they could understand 230 year old traditions either and our unique language. I suspect they got a lot of complaints from students that the squids were fucking their GF's and calling them "Chairforce Pussies"
God I crack myself up... I love interservice jabs! But the USAF does have better billeting.. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:48:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Anyone who thinks SOCOM doesn't use thier forces when and where they are needed, for good reasons, maybe oughta sack up and, join...Make a real difference. Afgan is a SEAL mission all the way, just as it's a Force Recon mission, and, SF mission, and, a PJ mission. We were all on the same team, last I checked The miniscule ammount of $ its taking the USAF to make thier own program is squat. It's hilarious people are on their hind legs about training our forces as opposed to other tes or entitlement programs. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:56:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Sorry, that's just not true. There was a period of time when the Navy had its own basic parachutist course. It was two weeks long. For the most part they used rented aircraft and Navy instructors. How do I know? I talked to someone who had been through it. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 5:03:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Ah yes... death by a thousand cuts. It's just money, and the Gov't can print up as much as it needs... I know And yes, I've held oh so many positions in support of entitlement programs...
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Posted: 3/27/2006 5:06:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Please dude. I'd rather a school got stood up to custom train for applicable missions than a gazzillon dollars get wasted on the next "Commanche". Being all up in arms over this is patently ridiculous. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 5:11:25 PM EDT
[#25]
"Up in arms" is a little harsh. I just pointed out that I, as a taxpayer, thought this was a foolish way to spend my tithe, that's all.
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Posted: 3/27/2006 5:15:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Then we shall agree to disagree, I suppose. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 5:20:55 PM EDT
[#27]
You guys have no idea the $$ USAF wastes, lol! They are the poster children for Fraud, Waste, and Abuse in the US military. They have little busses to drive their aircrews out to their planes. We fucking WALK! I asked a USAF Loadmaster once if the USAF was to cheap to issue feet in bootcamp. He wasnt too amused! They have new flat screen TV's everywhere that are always tuned to CNN or TWC.. They Have the cleanest and newest GSE I have ever seen while ours looks like it went through WWI.. TWICE! They tote 100 years of air power.. Big portraits on every wall on every USAF base. Depicting historical aircraft from the Wright Flyer to the F-22.. Funny thing the USN was doing revolutionary things with aircraft before the USAA was even thout of.. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 9:34:10 PM EDT
[#28]
My take: 1) The air force knows shit about wareborne opeations. I f an airman need that training, go to the Navy. 2) The Army fields the finest airborne troops in the world. What branch would you want to be taught by? |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:52:32 AM EDT
[#29]
Here's the reference I found for the Navy's school in WWII. www.nps.gov/wapa/indepth/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003147-00/sec7.htm My interpretation of your post was that the Army's airborne school was two weeks long, but I now see that you were referring to the Navy's program. Either way, it's a good thing that the right service is still in charge of airborne training.  (and the right service is still in charge of EOD training). |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:12:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Funny to rip on the AF. They have the highest washout rate in their SF schools compared to the other branches of service. This also includes SEALs washing out of PJ training etc.. Is the "in the Navy" boy a little jealous? Why would the army and Navy send it's people to AF Security Forces schools if you are so superior?
Worrying about your tax paying dollars. Pack your shit and leave our country. Your taxes pay for your freedom moron. This is an age of SF military and special ops, this is an age of military organizations working together and not against each other. Our country needs specialized training for specific missions. Over crowding military schools hinders not helps. Forgot to ad, you Navy guys all marry fat chicks so no one will screw em while your out at sea bending over your bunk mate. You sound a little broke back. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:03:22 AM EDT
[#31]
For the same reason the USAF sends pilots to Navy schools and vice versa. Cost savings. Our "security forces" weren't all that big prior to 9/11, so there was no need to create and pay for our own schools. That is changing, however. As far as washout rates are concerned, there is more to washout rates than just how tough the school is. Like how big the community is. The number of applicants. The suitability of applicants, etc. Comparing washout rates is stupid. Comparing cirriculum is a better measure.
Concerned citizens should be concerned about how their money is spent and demand that it is spent wisely. However, judging how wisely money is spent on one article is foolish because it certainly did not get into the details of the why's.
 Come back and try insults after you've hit puberty there junior. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:18:48 AM EDT
[#32]
These things run in cycles, nobody learns anything.
There used to be like 5-6 different airborne schools, Benning, Bragg, Campbell, Gulick, Okinawa, and then one for the Navy/Marines and IIRC one for the Air Force. The lean years led to concentrating all the schools into one, as its cheaper to send folks TDY to one location. Obviously that lesson was lost on everyone involved in the decision making process. Same with the Logistics system, now instead of one type of combat fatigue each service has its own, its a nighmare for a Theater level Loggy to try and keep a stock onhand to support ops. Same with ammo, we have Air Force ammo, Conventional Army Ammo, Army Special Ops Ammo, Navy Special Ops ammo Amatures talk of Tactics, Professionals talk of Logistics, |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 10:21:54 AM EDT
[#33]
If we use the logic of the tax guy we should take the airplanes, helicoters, missiles from the Navy/Army and put them in the AF then we can shut down the USMC and move them all to the Army because after all, the Marines are infantry. We can realign the SEALs to Delta this would save our money right? It is peoples thoughts like this that have caused our military budget/equipment and training to go away and be diminished. The Navy/Army has been training with the AF way prior to 9/11 so your point is moot. And the Navy guy started his insults on the AF before my posting. Yes, junior is back.
Why not look at Congress who authorizes themselves big annual pay raises if you want to see where your money is going. This is a new age using SF teams to fight wars, this is what 9/11 created. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 10:54:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Try reading and understanding before posting. First of all, I said the Navy used the AF school because prior to 9/11 we had a very small security force and it did not make sense to open our own. My information, and I'm pretty well connected in this area, is that is about to change. As for the "tax guy," as you called him, if you bothered to read my posts, I disagreed with him and explained why I disagreed with him. There are areas where it makes sense to consolidate. However, there are often even better reasons not to.
It's not the insults I mind, it's the lack of originality. If you're going to insult my service them please take the time to hurl an insult sailors haven't heard over the past 200+ years.
27th Amendment to our Constitution. If you don't like Congress voting themselves pay increases you have the chance to "throw the bums out" before they actually reap the benefits of the pay increase.
It goes back much further than that. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Shit, I would rather have them spend my tax dollars on a combat diver school for the airforce than hand them out to some fuckin' illegal alien Mexican piece of shit wanting his piece of the pie....
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Posted: 3/28/2006 11:00:37 AM EDT
[#36]
I have worked with a FAC guy at the Nampa Airshow each of the last 3 years. He is the airboss and I work ground setting up the acts for him to launch and getting them down and clear when they are done. He impresses me all around. Very fit guy. Looks like he could run 15 miles at the mere challenge. Very articulate and brief. Glad we have him on our side. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:10:48 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm not arguing with you. I can understand if we were talking about a $2000 hammer that could be bought at Ace hardware for $20, were talking about specialty trainging that saves lives and completes missions. The Navy guy saying AF billets are the only good thing and he Bops there girlfriends is who I was refering to.
Fully tracking with what you posted. And I concur with you. |
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