Is fleeing a crime of violence

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is fleeing a crime of violence

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:28:40 PM EDT

I noted last week a high speed chase where the police were trying to catch a vehicle and persued it for miles at high speeds and through dense traffic. Given that these incidents put many innocent lives at risk, would you consider the act of using a motor vehicle to flee from the police at high speed a serious crime and perhaps a violent crime?

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189189,00.html

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:33:37 PM EDT

[#1]

I believe it already is.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:36:51 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I believe it already is.

I agree but I was more going for opinions on whether or not people here consider it a serious crime. I sometimes get the feeling that some think its all no big deal dukes of hazzard fun and games when someone chooses to flee at high speeds rather than the life threatening situation it really is.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:37:01 PM EDT

[#3]

When you guys make me King I'm going to declare it a capital offense with the sentence to be meted out at the scene where it ends. The only caveat will be that multiple officers must be involved in order to avoid vendettas and questions as to what happened or didn't happen.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:37:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I noted last week a high speed chase where the police were trying to catch a vehicle and persued it for miles at high speeds and through dense traffic. Given that these incidents put many innocent lives at risk, would you consider the act of using a motor vehicle to flee from the police at high speed a serious crime and perhaps a violent crime?

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189189,00.html

Hmmm.....good question.

I think it is, or should be if it isn't.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:39:31 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
When you guys make me King I'm going to declare it a capital offense with the sentence to be meted out at the scene where it ends. The only caveat will be that multiple officers must be involved in order to avoid vendettas and questions as to what happened or didn't happen.

Hell that doesn't even stop the bashers here.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:43:18 PM EDT

[#6]

Understand that I've been pondering this as a result of another thread that has run its course. I've always considered fleeing and eluding to be a violent felony. I was amazed that some had in their mind that it was some sort of trivial administrative, no big deal, sort of offense.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:45:04 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Understand that I've been pondering this as a result of another thread that has run its course. I've always considered fleeing and eluding to be a violent felony. I was amazed that some had in their mind that it was some sort of trivial administrative, no big deal, sort of offense.

On the internet stupid people have a podium and audience. Filter accordingly.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:47:37 PM EDT

[#8]

Up until a few years ago attempting elude was not even an arrestable offense here.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:47:59 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Understand that I've been pondering this as a result of another thread that has run its course. I've always considered fleeing and eluding to be a violent felony. I was amazed that some had in their mind that it was some sort of trivial administrative, no big deal, sort of offense.

On the internet stupid people have a podium and audience. Filter accordingly.

Indeed they do. I was just thinking that when this piece of the puzzel is discussed without the mention of a certain alphabet agency's involvement, how few will pipe up to defend someone who engaged in such activity. The converse is that a bunch who defended exactly that behavior will keep quiet when it is looked at specifically for what it is because they couldn't see the facts through their own bias when it is connected to another incident.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:48:28 PM EDT

[#10]

No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:50:26 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.

So in your mind, it would require that someone was actually injured to rise to the level of a crime of violence? What would the determining factor be for you?

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:51:07 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.

Say what?? Fleeing is always a crime--"hitting a golf ball" never is, providing it's not done in some weird attempt at deliberately hitting someone. You sure you meant to say what came out?

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:54:58 PM EDT

[#13]

For point of reference Fleeing and eluding has been a felony in this state for at least the last 20 years. There is a violence penalty kicker if anyone is actually injured in the persuit.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:56:27 PM EDT

[#14]

How if fleeing a crime "violent"? It is "reckless" but that is not the same thing. Every new offense now is a "violent" and a "felony."

In NY if I kick you in the nuts, but cause no real injury, that is a violation, punishable by 15 days in jail. However if I call you the phone and call you a mother f-er, that is a misdemeanor and I can do a year in jail for that. Personally I'd rather be called names over the phone then get kicked in the nads, but with "crime inflation" everything is a hanging offense now.

Posted: 3/27/2006 12:59:20 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
How if fleeing a crime "violent"? It is "reckless" but that is not the same thing. Every new offense now is a "violent" and a "felony."

In NY if I kick you in the nuts, but cause no real injury, that is a violation, punishable by 15 days in jail. However if I call you the phone and call you a mother f-er, that is a misdemeanor and I can do a year in jail for that. Personally I'd rather be called names over the phone then get kicked in the nads, but with "crime inflation" everything is a hanging offense now.

So, should reckless behavior that has a real world potential to cause harm to others, be a felony?

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:03:35 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
How if fleeing a crime "violent"? It is "reckless" but that is not the same thing. Every new offense now is a "violent" and a "felony."

In NY if I kick you in the nuts, but cause no real injury, that is a violation, punishable by 15 days in jail. However if I call you the phone and call you a mother f-er, that is a misdemeanor and I can do a year in jail for that. Personally I'd rather be called names over the phone then get kicked in the nads, but with "crime inflation" everything is a hanging offense now.

So, should reckless behavior that has a real world potential to cause harm to others, be a felony?

You can say that about any crime "Should (insert despicable act) be a felony?" That's why EVERYTHING is a felony now, no one wants to be seen as not being "tough on crime."

Hell speeding is "reckless behavior that has a real world potential to cause harm to others" so is DWI and any assault. How about talking on cel phones>? Probably more people get run over by cel phone blabbing nitwits than by guys fleeing the police, should they all get 5-15 years?

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:05:00 PM EDT

[#17]

Everything else is a felony, why not make fleeing from the police a felony? Sure we have things like vehicular homocide, reckless endangerment and reckless driving laws, but those don't go far enough to ensure the safety of law enforcement officers or to protect the public. We need another new law to close the fleeing from police loophole.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:08:46 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.

Say what?? Fleeing is always a crime--"hitting a golf ball" never is, providing it's not done in some weird attempt at deliberately hitting someone. You sure you meant to say what came out?

Absolutely. Perhps the analogy was not the greatest one but it got the point across. What if I am speeding? Crime of violence? What if I hit someone? What if I almost hit someone because of it?

You can keep splitting that fucking hair ad infinitum.

No doubt you, as self procalimed "site JBT" would like to incarcerate us for looking at you cross eyed. Fortunately, this is not quite a police state yet, and you are not a memeber of the ruling class. Getting there but not quite....

Seems you make my point for me in your next post:

For point of reference Fleeing and eluding has been a felony in this state for at least the last 20 years. There is a violence penalty kicker if anyone is actually injured in the persuit.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:09:44 PM EDT

[#19]

In NC a cop was chasing some dude who had spilled gas all over himself. I think he was trying to steal something and got caught, I'm not sure. So, Anyway the cop chasing him hit him with a taser,and the dude just ignited. He's up at the burn center at UNC and probably won't live.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:12:56 PM EDT

[#20]

A crime? Of course. A violent offense? No. If they injure or kill somebody in the process, it's whatever crime that is (hit and run, battery, negligent homicide, etc.).

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:15:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Fleeing from police at high speeds?

Naa it’s not a big deal, just fun and games really. But then I think its all fun and games when the cops beat someone half to death for doing this. (One broken bone or three missing teeth per mile should be the standard.)

Seriously, there are some things we should have zero tolerance for and this is one. Don’t wanna stop? Fine, slow down to a safe speed and drive just as long as you like. If the cop’s shift is about to end or he needs to go to lunch he can just radio for another car to keep following you. (Don’t get me wrong, this ought to be a crime unless you have a good reason for it but it should be a finable offense at best.)

But running at high speed? Nope, that risks everyone’s life. When someone does it they ought to be beaten senseless and tossed in jail.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:16:42 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
How if fleeing a crime "violent"? It is "reckless" but that is not the same thing. Every new offense now is a "violent" and a "felony."

In NY if I kick you in the nuts, but cause no real injury, that is a violation, punishable by 15 days in jail. However if I call you the phone and call you a mother f-er, that is a misdemeanor and I can do a year in jail for that. Personally I'd rather be called names over the phone then get kicked in the nads, but with "crime inflation" everything is a hanging offense now.

+1. I'm tired of every new thing becoming a "serious problem" requiring serious penalties when actual violent crime is treated with far less seriousness.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:34:20 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.

Say what?? Fleeing is always a crime--"hitting a golf ball" never is, providing it's not done in some weird attempt at deliberately hitting someone. You sure you meant to say what came out?

Absolutely. Perhps the analogy was not the greatest one but it got the point across. What if I am speeding? Crime of violence? What if I hit someone? What if I almost hit someone because of it?

You can keep splitting that fucking hair ad infinitum.

No doubt you, as self procalimed "site JBT" would like to incarcerate us for looking at you cross eyed. Fortunately, this is not quite a police state yet, and you are not a memeber of the ruling class. Getting there but not quite....

Seems you make my point for me in your next post:

For point of reference Fleeing and eluding has been a felony in this state for at least the last 20 years. There is a violence penalty kicker if anyone is actually injured in the persuit.

One thing is clear, "Mr golf ball defense" is I owe you an apology for taking you seriously before.
I promise it will not happen again.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:44:59 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

One thing is clear, "Mr golf ball defense" is I owe you an apology for taking you seriously before.
I promise it will not happen again.

Ho-hum...you say something?

Didn't think so.

Posted: 3/27/2006 1:46:11 PM EDT

[#25]

Absolutely.

Posted: 3/27/2006 2:03:06 PM EDT

[#26]

When it comes to whether or not the police should chase someone in a car I would like to see more data on this issue. The data are probably out there ,but I have yet to see it.

First: How many vehicle stops are initiated?
Second: What percentage of vehicle stops lead to chases?
Third: How many of those chases lead to the car being stopped and how many evade the police?
Fourth: Other than the acts related to the evasion of the police and any initital traffice stop, what crimes have the evaders been accused of?
Fifth: How many chases lead to damaged property or injuries/deaths of the chasers, the chasees, and others?

I'm sure there are other good questions, but thats what I would like to know for now.

eta: People say its too dangerous to chase evaders through neighborhoods, but its also dangerous to let criminals escape.

Posted: 3/27/2006 2:05:35 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.

Say what?? Fleeing is always a crime--"hitting a golf ball" never is, providing it's not done in some weird attempt at deliberately hitting someone. You sure you meant to say what came out?

Absolutely. Perhps the analogy was not the greatest one but it got the point across. What if I am speeding? Crime of violence? What if I hit someone? What if I almost hit someone because of it?

You can keep splitting that fucking hair ad infinitum.

No doubt you, as self procalimed "site JBT" would like to incarcerate us for looking at you cross eyed. Fortunately, this is not quite a police state yet, and you are not a memeber of the ruling class. Getting there but not quite....

Seems you make my point for me in your next post:

For point of reference Fleeing and eluding has been a felony in this state for at least the last 20 years. There is a violence penalty kicker if anyone is actually injured in the persuit.

The last golf crime we had locally was when one guy apparently mistook his golfing buddie's head for a ball and killed him with a 4 Iron.

Posted: 3/27/2006 2:09:13 PM EDT

[#28]

I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.

Posted: 3/27/2006 2:14:16 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.

And jaywalkers too.
Allowing them to do that is insane. They could cause an accident.

MO is that there should be a degree of crime as we have in many such tings.

Now, it is unlawful to flee. Hit someone and the consequences goes wayyyy up. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

Seems to me this is just more "precrime" bullshit. If the criteria for punishment becomes whatever bad "COULD HAVE HAPPENED" then freedom is truly dead in America. No doubt many of the popo would like that. Not all, but enough.

Posted: 3/27/2006 2:53:32 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.

Your suggestion may be a little too tough. It always makes you wonder why they ran. The problem with it is some are so stupid it may just be they did not want to stop for the inconvenience. They are not smart, but shooting them would not help their problem. Being arrested or cited into court and seeing how the court system can inconvenience them may help next time.

Posted: 3/27/2006 2:59:11 PM EDT

[#31]

Yes. High speed pursutis endanger everyone on the road and sidewalk. Some states already treat them that way and the cops will use deadly force to end them.

In my state simple evading is a misdemeanor.

Evading with wanton disregard for others a a felony. That's stuff like driving the wrong way on a one way and blowing multiple red lights in heavy traffic.

The last felony evadig i had the driver ran three stop signs, drove the wrong way on a one way, blew a redlight across the busiest street in our area and crashed into a hotel. he was running becuase he was driving a car he stole.

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:08:39 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Yes. High speed pursutis endanger everyone on the road and sidewalk. Some states already treat them that way and the cops will use deadly force to end them.

In my state simple evading is a misdemeanor.

Evading with wanton disregard for others a a felony. That's stuff like driving the wrong way on a one way and blowing multiple red lights in heavy traffic.

The last felony evadig i had the driver ran three stop signs, drove the wrong way on a one way, blew a redlight across the busiest street in our area and crashed into a hotel. he was running becuase he was driving a car he stole.

I think you should have cited him for improper parking too!

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:14:03 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.

And jaywalkers too.
Allowing them to do that is insane. They could cause an accident.

MO is that there should be a degree of crime as we have in many such tings.

Now, it is unlawful to flee. Hit someone and the consequences goes wayyyy up. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

Seems to me this is just more "precrime" bullshit. If the criteria for punishment becomes whatever bad "COULD HAVE HAPPENED" then freedom is truly dead in America. No doubt many of the popo would like that. Not all, but enough.

Pre_crime? What about fleeing is "pre-crime"? Fleeing felons cause accidents.

Libtard BS from you of all people?

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:31:34 PM EDT

[#34]

This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:34:47 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?

Misdemeanor resisting arrest. Typical punishment is getting the shit kicked out of you when you get caught, $100.00 fine and 1-yr informal probation.

True story. As a rookie after my first foot pursuit i was all excited about catching the suspect.

The training Sgt looked at me with contempt and asked "Why isnt he going to the hospital?"

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:36:21 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?

Misdemeanor resisting arrest.

Thanks.

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:37:18 PM EDT

[#37]

Yep

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:42:14 PM EDT

[#38]

I think it depends on the circumstances.

I think its entirely possible to flee without being a danger to anyone, why should someone who isnt endangering others be considered a violent felon.

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:43:22 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.

And jaywalkers too.
Allowing them to do that is insane. They could cause an accident.

MO is that there should be a degree of crime as we have in many such tings.

Now, it is unlawful to flee. Hit someone and the consequences goes wayyyy up. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

Seems to me this is just more "precrime" bullshit. If the criteria for punishment becomes whatever bad "COULD HAVE HAPPENED" then freedom is truly dead in America. No doubt many of the popo would like that. Not all, but enough.

Pre_crime? What about fleeing is "pre-crime"? Fleeing felons cause accidents.

Libtard BS from you of all people?

Libtard?
You've got to be shitting me. Is that really the best you can come up with? Inane insults for lack of a decent argument?

Fleeing?
Nothing about it is a precrime.
Trying to escalate it to something more as something else "could happen" is.

As has been stated there are flights that fit under an aggravated circumstance(for lack of a better word). Why isn't that enough?

There are enough laws already. For me to be convinced we need another you are going to have to do a lot better in convincing me.

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:46:51 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?

Misdemeanor resisting arrest. Typical punishment is getting the shit kicked out of you when you get caught, $100.00 fine and 1-yr informal probation.

True story. As a rookie after my first foot pursuit i was all excited about catching the suspect. The training Sgt looked at me with contempt and asked "Why isnt he going to the hospital?"

Who was your Sgt?
George C. Scott?

Posted: 3/27/2006 3:50:43 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?

Misdemeanor resisting arrest. Typical punishment is getting the shit kicked out of you when you get caught, $100.00 fine and 1-yr informal probation.

True story. As a rookie after my first foot pursuit i was all excited about catching the suspect. The training Sgt looked at me with contempt and asked "Why isnt he going to the hospital?"

Who was your Sgt?

A crusty old Marine, long since retired. And i still dont beat up suspects for simply running. But it takes an incredible amount of restraint sometimes. especially after one of my friends got a compound fracture of his gun arm during a foot pursuit.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is fleeing a crime of violence

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