Flip side of your argument: If we marketing monkeys knew everything about the products, we'd be engineers.

I feel your pain man... Earlier this week I sent out a e-mail to all my users that Lotusnotes will be down for the day. Due to a the server being moved to a new building. First thing this morning the usual suspects show up and ask why there e-mail is not working.. Good lord there are some dumb people..

TBS, refering to marketing personel as monkeys is somewhat insensitive.........to the monkeys.   At least monkeys can use tools

Please feel free to add this to your vocabulary when discussing marketing persons:

"Hit and run fucking gypsies"

I work the tech side as well.  I do not recall ever in my 27yr career a marketing weenie demontrating the least little concern for anyone or anything other than themselves.

Oh and that thing about the cruises & bonuses.  Our company just laidoff 300 people nationwide.  Three days later corp announced the maketing group was sending 86 people in their department to Hawaii on a paid vacation.  

If someone is making time commitments to customers, then they aren't in marketing...they are sales.  

Sales and Marketing are grouped together as marketing is a support function for the sales organization, but they are NOT the same.  The marketing team develops the brochures and the data sheets and customer testimonials, magazine ads and editorials, whitepapers, etc. that the sales person never reads, but passes around to the customers, and talkas around effortlessly.

The sales guy doesn't really need to know how the product works, because he knows how the customer thinks, and uses that to sell him.  The fact that they are able to sell multi-million dollar systems without knowing what they do is precisely why they are worth the big bonuses and such...because regardless of whether the product is good or not, they can sell it and keep everyone else in the business working.  

Engineers are fantastic and building things, and I wish I had developed the aptitude to become an engineer when I was young enough for it to matter, but I've not met the engineer who could sell a glass of water to a man dying of thirst in the desert.  Technology doesn't sell itself.  You could have the best product in the world, but without salespeople and marketing folks figuring out how to sell it to someone, you will go out of business.

Case in point, Digital Equipment Corporation had the most advanced microprocessor technology in the business, full-blown 64-bit architecture all the way back in the late eighties with it being market ready in the early 90's...unfortunately they hadn't the foggiest idea who might want it or why.  They sunk millions upon millions and perhaps billions of dollars into a technology that no-one wanted. Add this to a large number of other huge marketing errors and it explains why Digital, the second largest computer corporation in the world, ended up getting bought out by a PC company, which then got sucked down by the weight of Digital's huge engineering tail and the inertia within it.

All that said, salespeople are a pain in the ass.

I'm a marketing guy.

Quoted: here i sit on a conference call for a new customer. i have spent the last 2 hours explaining the technical side of the installation of new systems to these idiots and the only people with a clue are the customer. This damn call is going to take me longer than the actual installation. i have heard some of the DUMBEST questions i have ever heard from marketing people from my own company on this call. How in the blue fuck can you sell multi million dollar computer systems and not have clue what the system is? How these idiots get the cruises and big bonuses is beyond me. mike ps... yes i am bored

PM's and Marketing monkeys have a lot of kissing ass skills. I don't think that happens to be one of the "gifts" the good lord has given you Beer_Slayer.

Quoted: Quoted: Flip side of your argument: If we marketing monkeys knew everything about the products, we'd be engineers. i don't expect them to know everything. i do expect them to atleast know the basic capabilities on the machine and what OS enviornment it runs. Not to mention they LOVE to make time commitments to customers based on the work WE do. With no clue as to how long it will take or what they have already promised we will handle for other accounts. i just had one raising hell becasue we could not get a machine arriving next thursday installed by the end of the month. I made the mistake of asking if this was a customer satisfaction issue. Hell no, he doesn't get paid his commision until we complete the install, if we don't do by end of month he has to wait 30 days for his check. Fuck him, i will make sure that one is delayed.

I actually know your pain. My wife is in software and is forever having her schedule dictated by the idiots in Marketing.

Quoted: Flip side of your argument: If we marketing monkeys knew everything about the products, we'd be engineers.

  And get a 50% pay cut.  Engineers design and build the product.  Sales types convince people they need the product and get 2 ( or more ) times the $ as the engineer.  But when there is a problem the sales types are nowhere to be found.  Can you tell I'm an engineer?

Quoted: he just offered me a T-shirt if i get it done by fri. yes sir, i bust my ass and you send me a tshirt, you answer the phone and get a 5k commision. Blow me pin head.

Tell him to split the commision and he's got a deal Get it in writing

Quoted: Quoted: Flip side of your argument: If we marketing monkeys knew everything about the products, we'd be engineers.   And get a 50% pay cut.  Engineers design and build the product.  Sales types convince people they need the product and get 2 ( or more ) times the $ as the engineer.  But when there is a problem the sales types are nowhere to be found.  Can you tell I'm an engineer?

Let's just say the grass is not greener on either side.

Though the marketing/sales departments at software companies have it pretty cushy. My wife's told me stories of "off site" sales meetings at ski resorts. HMMMMMM.

Salesdroids.  

Quoted: Quoted: he just offered me a T-shirt if i get it done by fri. yes sir, i bust my ass and you send me a tshirt, you answer the phone and get a 5k commision. Blow me pin head. Tell him to split the commision and he's got a deal Get it in writing

Ha! that'll happen

Quoted: Tell him to split the commision and he's got a deal Get it in writing

Just for TBS's luck, the guy spent his 4 years in the service as a recruiter.